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So Mystic will be the only personality to have access to MS?
Is plague coming back now that we have undeads?
My understanding from reading the proposed changes in part is that growth kds do not feel it is fair that kds that go to war and get into an EOWCF come out pumped and growth kds are at risk even by a loser of a war. Therefore the changes to the EOWCF are being proposed which doesn't give warring kds a huge boost. That is fine, adaptable, however there is nothing in the proposed changes that penalizes growth kds. You proposed the FCF penalties which would apply to growth kds, however growth kds do not care about honor and ww pts. They do however care about sciences and use sciences as a way to make their provinces more secure. If you are going to enact changes to EOWCF, then I suggest for the FCF penalty that the kd loses 5% of their sciences instead of their honor. This would make the changes in EOWCF more acceptable to warring kds if growth kds also had to give up something for not warring.
Can we address the Kingdoms size? 22-25 is kind of silly when you have 1800-1900 players finishing up this age. There has been a steady decline in players part of the issue is you have to be super active or constantly tricking weaker kingdoms into war. Players want to WIN and if you can't give everyone an even chance they leave. Frankly the death hold the 25 size kingdom has on the game drives away the players who just want to have some fun. The other issue is I get is experienced players come to my kingdom all the time. They get frustrated because we are a relax warring kingdom and they can't find that hard core kingdom 'live to play'! You need 100-150 kingdoms to make this a game that people can be hard core or relaxed. Right now we are running low on Kingdom options to pick from. To be honest some of the kingdoms are like, You must go through some blood rite of death to fit in! LOL
SECOND this issue!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadira
Awww the unit stats for some races is still haven't reverted back to the Personalities periods before the recent changes.
Anyways remember most race/personality combos are filtered by most monarchs, so having the core options in a well balanced manner before you add more race/personality back into the fold so your not tearing your hair off trying to manage all those options.
Elf prisoners will have 0 nw?
Re: comments on eowcf and growth kds:
The eowcf changes have nothing to do with growth kingdoms. War kds stuck oow for too long are at disadvantage against war kds exiting eowcf and as a result….dodge.
Then return to the 48 hr EOWCF's. We tried it for one age and people all grumbled yet its results were kds that weren't super pumped and sitting on tons of gcs. Isn't that essentially what you are saying? Its been like this for years since the 96 hour EOWCF started.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoYaL ASSasSIN
Eliminating all bonuses of EOWCF isn't the solution. Return to the 48 hr EOWCF's we had back in the earlier ages.
96hr is a bit long near the end of the age, its alright early to mid age, while 48hr is too short regardless, 72 is prob better near the end of the age than early age. Then factor in that the winner tends to use less hrs, while loser needs more hours. So why dont we do this, keep it at 96hrs but one will get a "benefit" for exiting out of EoWCF early based on amount of ticks. As to what benefit I dont know.... maybe a boost in ME or extra sci or ritual strength/duration based on the ticks left?
But another part of the protection problem now is not enough warring kingdoms in range (especially if you warred them already or napped/cf them) so your sitting in normal more often than not while trying to get a war (note the increased the hits needed to start a war). Which leads to be waved by someone larger than you being your the closest to being in the lowest war-able NW target, maybe test out shrink kingdoms to max size of 20 with the average kingdom size goal of around 15ish.
The new FCF is a nice mechanic, but could we please limit it to people having the balls to wave UP in NW ?
For 20 years, it has been disadvantageous to wave smaller KD's, but that it still what most people in the game do. Personally I'd like to see people with balls being rewarded. Just one age ?
This still does not eliminate what the complaint is. The complaint is that a kd that comes oow currently is so pumped that no one else wants to war them except another kd coming oow at the same time IF they are even in range.Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPanda
Like I said 96 is a bit long long you get past mid age, allowing for such overpumping. If you reduce it shafts the loser side, more so the mystics that get massed/aw/propped into obvilion during the war, unless they give a bonus for EOWCF like double WPA training etc.
That being said,"War: Will no longer have draft speed bonus, training time reduction and build time reduction (This includes End of War Ceasefire)" so that should help with the over pump problem.
Apparently, they've stated they will never lower kd size, which is just more evidence of how bad they are at running the game. A blanket definitive statement like that is poor management on all levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais
Adding my thoughts: It should be dropped to 20 at a minimum. Some consideration should even be given to 15.
Problems with super kingdoms 25 in size, a sub 20 prov kingdom can barely even war it which leads to the lack of warring in the upper range of the spectrum, and any kingdom that is smaller by more than 6-7player will tend to just look the other way even if similar NW, and if the bigger kingdom waves the smaller prov kingdom and expect a war hahah good luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Na 15max is bad being you have to purge inactives or someone going astray for some reason from their own life, that can get you down to 10 players which is a bit short and super hard to cast the dumb ritual. Need at least 15 to have a good ritual casting.
From what I had been seeing (being I random just for fun), most kingdoms that is long running a "core" of at least 10-15ish guys, just filling 5 or less players allows them close to 15-20 which is pretty good.
I agree the kingdoms that attacks "upward" needs less NW difference penalty, especially so if they were on the receiving end too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quacky-T
Ideally the "ideal" gain should be a little higher than you NW and NOT set dead center on your NW.
Didn't see this mentioned in the proposed changes...can someone on the changes council confirm the following...
1) Races will not have unique spells, only personalities will.
2) Personalities will not modify elite strength.
3) Artisan bonus should read +20% Capacity bonus on Homes/Stables/Dungeons and +20% Production bonus on stables (the way it's currently worded is confusing)
Also, can you clarify this under Tactician: "+75% Ambush Protection"
Does that mean troops lost from an ambush are reduced by 75%? Or just the land lost in the ambush is reduced by 75%?
AND...
Undead/Paladin... (both have -20% military casualties)
Would they end up with 60% of normal casualties (100%-(20%+20%))
OR 64% of normal casualties (100%*80%*80%)
Thanks in advance!
My thoughts:
Avian (needs a boost)
Bonuses
-20% Attack Time
+20% Birth Rates
Starts with an additional 800 Soldiers and Specialist Credits
Penalty
*Horses only have 1 offense (go back to no horses and add Cant use rax)
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 11/0, 4.4nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 13/4, 1200gc 6.5 nw
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 1/0, 0.3nw
Dark Elf (I'd give them exclusive rights to NM and Nadoes)
Bonuses
+15% Spell Damage
-20% Thief Cost
Starts with: +400 Thieves and +400 Wizards
Penalty
-15% Birth Rate
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit – 12/6 1350gc 7.0 nw
Prisoner/Mercenary - 6/0, 1.2nw/0.0nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Elf (strong, no changes)
Bonuses
+30% Magic Effectiveness (WPA)
+25% Rune Production
Starts with an additional 800 Wizards
Penalty
-15% Sabotage Damage
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 6/12, 1350gc 7.5 nw
Prisoner/Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Dwarf (good as is)
Bonuses
+20% Building Efficiency
-25% Construction Time
Starts with an additional 800 Soldiers and Specialist Credits
Penalty
+100% Food Consumption
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 13/5, 1350gc 7.0 nw
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Dryad (good as is)
Bonuses
+25% Income
Every acre produces 4 bushels
Starts with an additional 800 Soldiers and Specialist Credits
Penalty
+15% Attack Time
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 14/2, 1350gc 6.0 nw
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 3/0, 0.9nw
Faery
Bonuses
+15% Arcane Science Effectiveness
-50% Wizard Losses
-50% Thief Losses
Starts with an additional 400 Thieves and 400 Wizards
Penalty
-25% Military Science Effectiveness
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 9/0, 3.6 nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 5/13, 1500gc 7.75 nw (increase from 13 to 14)
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw (reduce to 1pt)
Human (good as is)
Bonuses
+15% Science Efficiency
+10% Dragon Slaying Strength
Starts with an additional 800 Soldiers and Specialist Credits
Penalty
+20% Military Wages
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 14/5, 1500gc 7.25 nw
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Orc
Bonuses
+15% Enemy Military Casualties
-25% Training Time
Starts with an additional 800 Soldiers and Specialist Credits
Penalty
No Bonuses from Honor
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 15/1, 1500gc 6.0 nw (increase def to at least 2, even 3)
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Undead
Bonuses
-20% Military Casualties
Elite Conversion on Traditional Marches & Conquest
Where is plague?
Starts with an additional 800 Soldiers and Specialist Credits
Penalty
Cannot Train Elites
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/9, 4.5nw
Elite Unit - 15/4, 7.0 nw
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Gnome (needs a boost)
Bonuses
+15% Population
Can Train Thieves with Specialist Credits
Starts with an additional 800 Thieves
ADD TD effectiveness or Economy Sci effectiveness
Penalty
No Access to Hospitals
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 5/10, 1200gc 6.25 nw
Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
Prisoner - 6/0, 1.2 nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
I was thinking 15 with the amount of players and could be raised if the numbers go up. (the 25 kd will cry a river!) We have warred the same kingdom twice sometimes in one age. Throw up hands and say insanity is doing the same thing expecting it to get better! The race personality half/race thing isn't that important but it seems it is to some. Not sure whats wrong with the new way but whatever. The game mechanics seems a bit screwy in all the years how do you get 1 million NW on the other kingdom in 2 days? We have been on both sides of that and I scratch my head! The one thing I do like is doing away with everyone converting leets.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Need all kingdoms to be at the same top out of players. It went to 20 once and it even went to 25 once but it never worked. You can close the border but it cost the kingdom. OK now you can't close the border, OK now you can close the border again! Or did I dream all that? after all these years and changes it burrrrs really bad! I have maintain a Core of 10-15 players each age. Still the issue is the amount of kingdoms cause we need more to get wars in. They know the issue but the Top kingdoms with 25 are considered the CORE kingdom players of the game and it seems the get more of a say! If they are spending the money to do special things and such, it is what it is. Point is to save the game you need more kingdoms and bit more uncontrolled CHOAS!Quote:
Originally Posted by RedPanda
Who knew I was an agent of CHOAS? LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais
Well your forgetting the other problem is that 'is there enough people who can "lead" a kingdom?' which is normally a short supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais
Forcing ill mannered players to be monarchs, that cant lead nor predict the flow of war or the basics of targeting will also make people lose interest faster than the status quo. We want the people who retired from leading to come back, those who are newer but can lead to step up, and hopefully ibeing there are more kingdoms it will allow newer never been monarchs to follow more of a variety of players to learn from. (super 25man kingdoms usually wont have any newbies in there to learn given the fact usually they are all oldies)
15man is the perfect "minimum" You have to factor in the maximum which I am promoting for 20. That and usually there will always be "randoms/disgruntled/inactive" movement of players, so you have to add in variability so a 15man will be more of a 10-14man. With a 10 man kingdom, forget about casting a ritual if they are all newbies. A 20max will be more around 14-19 players, which is pretty decent and thats what most of middle sized kingdoms are currently.
That and doing it straight out of the blue and by a large amount does nothing but make people pissed especially if you revert it back in the following age. This isnt simple change, but more similar with core mechanics changes that takes a few ages to even get down, and players need to adjust for at least a few ages.
Well if there are MORE kingdoms, there is MORE of a chance of getting more money given the fact each kingdom is its own possible income stream. A 25 man might have a larger income per kingdom given it is stacked with 25 players, but is lower in possible revenue if you compare to on a player+kingdom volume viewpoint.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais
It feels like im playing a fae and not an Elf. Can we have the Elf elite be 12/8 or 12/7 or 11/9 or 11/8 similar to the older elves?Quote:
Elf
Bonuses
+30% Magic Effectiveness (WPA)
+25% Rune Production
Starts with an additional 800 Wizards
Penalty
-15% Sabotage Damage
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit - 6/12, 1350gc 7.5 nw
Prisoner/Mercenary - 6/0, 0.0nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Dark Elf likely needs a boost somewhere regardless, say maybe an 11 Ospec? Or increased sized Dungeons?Quote:
Dark Elf
Bonuses
+15% Spell Damage
-20% Thief Cost
Starts with: +400 Thieves and +400 Wizards
Penalty
-15% Birth Rate
Soldier - 2/2, 1.0nw
Offensive Specialist - 10/0, 4.0nw
Defensive Specialist - 0/10, 5.0nw
Elite Unit – 12/6 1350gc 7.0 nw
Prisoner/Mercenary - 6/0, 1.2nw/0.0nw
War Horse - 2/0, 0.6nw
Still waiting to hear back if undead will have plague... anybody know?
Simple solution to 25 province kingdoms ,,, phase out wol ,,, start at a max kingdom smaller number !!!!!
Like I said earlier, I am in favor of the new FCF mechanic - as long as it applies to a SMALLER KD waving a LARGER KD.
In it's current form I think it will be a mistake and seems to be an unwanted solution to a somewhat minor problem.
I am also curious as to who is pushing for this solution, as it seems to be mostly 2-3 VERY vocal people arguing for this solution on Discord (and those are from the top segment of the charts by my knowledge) ? Most critique seems to disappear in the chat.
So as I read the suggestion, the problem that needs fixing: "People dodge war because they are cowards and should learn to fight their wars, because activity is good".
Sure, plenty of waves probably results in a CF - but is that always because receiving KD acts cowardly ? And perhaps more importantly, should all Utopians be obliged to be present 24/7 to respond to a wave ?
15-20 Years ago, probably even 10-15 years ago as well, while I was a student and had a different set of priorities, missing a bit of sleep, playing utopia in class or just skipping class had little or no consequence. Today, I have a schedule where I try to fit in some Utopia time in between work, meetings, family life and hobbies. So does the rest of my KD. We are spread out across the world and we have certain times during the Utopian month where we actually have a chance of getting most of the KD active (or shortly after) - outside of this, few of us have the option of setting aside our daily life to deal with actions in a game. If a wave occurs close to our "action time" we can probably respond within a few hours and a war is likely to occur. If it occurs at a different time, it may be more than 12 hours until we can manage an organized response - in which case a CF is usually the standard reply to a wave.
Such is Utopia life outside of top 20 (?), and from the KD's i've been in nobody has really complained about this state, except perhaps when eating 2-3 waves (from different KD's) per day. In general you eat the wave, do a bit of diplo, CF is accepted and age goes on. Very rarely is someone persistant and continues to wave.
The second thing when it comes to waving is that most people waves a smaller KD when looking for a war. Last time one of the KD's I've played in last few ages got waved by a smaller KD, I don't think I actually remember. A few times the waves has come from KD's more less equal in NW, but for the greater part, you get waved by a KD that is larger than yourself.
And perhaps, this is were "cowardice" comes into play - but everyone will be looking for an advantage in wars. And not everyone will be confident about going up against a KD 10% bigger than themselves.
Now with the current defensive FCF proposed in Revised Changes, you actually add an incentive for people to wave into smaller KD's - it's free War points, but also free honor. Simply optimize your strategy and keep hitting into KD's barely 10% smaller for a free war point and some free honor. Who is gonna be happy about this solution except the bottomfeeders ? The mechanic is pretty obviously open for abuse.. and it adds nothing to promote a solution to what I imagine is the main drive behind the proposal - more activity and more war. Most peoples daily schedules doesn't revolve around Utopia, so they will not be able to reply to every wave. Neither will they be more willing to give away free war wins to a bigger aggressive KD. Even if people are mostly doing the "warring KD" approach, they still care about their honor, so losing 3% honor per FCF will still hurt. Not to mention if you get waved several times per day by different KD's.
The current Aggressive FCF proposed in Revised Changes is even worse. What if my KD decides to fight for its resources ? We neither want to war, but we don't wanna simply give them away either ? If people want to come and claim what is mine I want the right to fight for it - and if they absolutely go out of their way to be a-holes, I want to drive home the lesson that they will pay for what they take and still not get their wanted war (wasting their time and resources). So that the next time they wanna find someone to bully, they will think twice being targetting my KD again, because they know there is a price attached. With this change, they can wave - then 24h later claim a war point and 3% of my honor, while 5% of my honor will be destroyed for "disappointing my people".
It's like the UN punishing Ukraine for standing up to Russia.
Seriously ?
Now, I saw some of the vocal people claiming this change is a great improvement. It's not. Sure I can FCF and avoid future waves from the aggresor KD. But here is the thing, 90% of cases, if a CF is offered, that 2nd wave never materializes because people take the CF offered and move on.
So I think my proposal will help solve both the original intent of this proposal (Helping KD's find wars) as well as the current problem of forcing people to give up war points and honor to "bottomfeeding" KD's
**** Let the FCF mechanic only be applied when waving LARGER KD. ****
If KD's wave upwards, they are much more likely to find wars, and this change will give them an incentive to do just that (the war point(s) and honor).
And even though Utopia is full of logical inconsistencies, most people will find it more agreeable/sensible that if you have the balls to wave someone bigger, you should be awarded for such actions. (Just as waving someone 10-15% smaller is viewed as something negative).
If my proposal doesn't work out you can always adjust it or drop it after an age or 2.
The bigger risk (I think), is if the low and mid tier suddenly get into a situation where "bottom feeding" is increased and they are forced to pay honor to such KD's (or war them). Most players in such KD's wont suddenly increase their time or commitment to Utopia, they will more probably quit if they dont like the situation. And even if the mechanic is later changed, those players wont automatically come back.