Using LL & Being Chained

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16-02-2017, 19:27
Moppy

Using LL & Being Chained

Hey guys,

Let me just provide some context here:

Race: Faery
Personality: War Hero
NW: 800k
Land: 3,000
Military Setup: 30k ospecs, 20k elites

So we are in the middle of a war right now and the province mentioned above is in the middle of being chained. We have two ways of handling him being chained (in regards to the Land Lust spell), I'll explain both scenarios below and the basic concept behind each:

Scenario 1:
The province LLs in the middle of being chained, not using full mana but some to gain acres. Then he uses remaining mana once armies return to LL.
Idea behind this: If the prov LL while being chained, he will have less desertions per tick resulting in him retaining more NW

Scenario 2:
The province LLs once his armies return (if he is at 100% mana before armies return, obviously would use to either LL or do something else), increasing his max pop resulting in him having to release less troops in order to attack
Idea behind this: He will continue to be chained while waiting for armies to return, so mana and runes used prior to armies returning to LL will only result in enemy gaining more acres from him. LL while being chained in scenario 1 is somewhat counterproductive.

Limitations that may affect outcome: Lack of runes, mana % available

So my discussion is, which scenario should be used? Are the pros and cons to each? Does one scenario clearly have more advantages in handling chain and retaining NW over the other?

- Moppy
16-02-2017, 23:43
NakMuay

I would say scenario 1 generally, since LL'ing before incoming acres = higher WPA, more chance of success + prevent units from deserting. Depending on how hard you got chained / enemy kingdom activity, you would ideally want to wait until all the hits have come in, then LL like crazy. If they aren't very active and the hits are spread out, maybe wait until RIGHT before your army comes home to take advantage of the higher WPA.

If you're super active and a solid kingdom, I've heard of aiding soldiers to chained provinces (cuz the soldiers desert before other units). I just release thieves constantly, so I always have a ball of soldiers eating the deserts while I wait for my incoming to boost me up again. Unsure of exact numbers.
17-02-2017, 00:47
jmiedema

Quote:

Originally Posted by NakMuay

I would say scenario 1 generally, since LL'ing before incoming acres = higher WPA, more chance of success + prevent units from deserting. Depending on how hard you got chained / enemy kingdom activity, you would ideally want to wait until all the hits have come in, then LL like crazy. If they aren't very active and the hits are spread out, maybe wait until RIGHT before your army comes home to take advantage of the higher WPA.

If you're super active and a solid kingdom, I've heard of aiding soldiers to chained provinces (cuz the soldiers desert before other units). I just release thieves constantly, so I always have a ball of soldiers eating the deserts while I wait for my incoming to boost me up again. Unsure of exact numbers.

The ideal time to LL in a deep chain situation (which i assume you are referring to) (and if you have incoming acres coming in) is neither of those suggestions. You want to do it just prior to your armies return, so A. You have the highest mwpa during the chain process, and B. To not give a chance for the enemy kingdom to attack and take the LL'd acres. If you LL part way through (say at 1000 acres, and you LL 200a) then those acres you just LL'd will almost all be taken by the time they chain you to 300-400a. If you are at 100% mana (which you should never be in war? even as an attacking faery you could be recasting animate dead for each hit they are doing on you, to generate soldiers that help block your desertions) then I guess you could do a LL or two to make sure you aren't on 100% mana and losing mana every tick..

If your Trade Balance is good, just ask teammates to give you enough soldiers every tick to block desertions (Soldiers always desert before other units, and there is a max % of desertions you can have per tick, so you can make all your desertions be soldiers with enough aid). Then you wait till just before your armies arrive, and LL the best target you can (high acres, low wpa, relative in nw to you, basically a combination of those 3). Then when land comes in make sure that you ask for enough gc from your kingdom that you can build every acre. Then either release or slay dragon with whatever amount of population you have over 115% of your max pop, if you released then aid those soldiers to a teammate, then attack.

^^That should be the best way to prevent desertions regardless of whether you are an attacker or t/m that gets deep chained.
17-02-2017, 16:49
Persain

also release tpa/get sold aid to cover desertions...better than geting 1/2 your ll acres taken via hitting
17-02-2017, 18:12
NakMuay

I don't know how to copy stuff...but jmiedema I basically agree with your strategy.

I meant that if you can see the enemy has 18 attackers, and all 18 of them have armies out, couldn't you start LL'ing right away? You're already at the bottom of the barrel, no one else can take your acres, why not?

And in the second suggestion, I said wait until RIGHT BEFORE your acres come in and LL like crazy (as you suggested).

I think the LL scenario is a bit moot this age though, most in my kingdom barely have enough runes to cover their own self spells, and our T/M's are running massive tower %'s and still running on fumes. We aren't a top kingdom though, I think jmiedema is in FS?
17-02-2017, 18:46
jmiedema

Quote:

Originally Posted by NakMuay

I don't know how to copy stuff...but jmiedema I basically agree with your strategy.

I meant that if you can see the enemy has 18 attackers, and all 18 of them have armies out, couldn't you start LL'ing right away? You're already at the bottom of the barrel, no one else can take your acres, why not?

And in the second suggestion, I said wait until RIGHT BEFORE your acres come in and LL like crazy (as you suggested).

I think the LL scenario is a bit moot this age though, most in my kingdom barely have enough runes to cover their own self spells, and our T/M's are running massive tower %'s and still running on fumes. We aren't a top kingdom though, I think jmiedema is in FS?

Yea I'm in FS leadership.

If you know without any doubt at all that you will not be hit again before your armies return, (this includes T/M's being able to hit you as your defense deserts if you don't get soldiers), then yes you can LL earlier. The OP mentioned the option as being "LL mid-chain" which to me means you aren't chained down yet, but in the middle of getting hit. Yea ideally if you cannot be hit anymore 100%, you LL right away. DO NOT RELEASE defense early though or you will be hit further by T/M's (if you release all defense). Also, if you are being chained, and have access to Town Watch, ALWAYS have it on. Town Watch sucks as a defense boost, but it's best purpose is in deep chain protection. The more pezzies you have, the more military you need to release. Save your military, Run Town Watch.