A change of thinking for Humans

I've tried to make Humans a bit more blank slate, with military science and income being their strength and the arcane being a their weakness.


Human

Bonuses
+30% Income
Income Penalty Protection
+30% Military Science Efficiency

Penalties
-20% Arcane Science Efficiency
-1 spec strength (off: 5/0, def: 0/5)

Spell book: Greater Protection, Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 6 Defense: 6 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 1200
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


So this version of a Human would be one where the idea is that you can make anything out of them. The military science can go either way and you have the numbers to support focusing on defense or offense. You can be an attacker. With attacker buildings and your increased ME sci, you can reach usual attacker numbers. The trade off, of course is that you are weaker to TM ops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kido

I've tried to make Humans a bit more blank slate, with military science and income being their strength and the arcane being a their weakness.


Human

Bonuses
+30% Income
Income Penalty Protection
+30% Military Science Efficiency

Penalties
-20% Arcane Science Efficiency
-1 spec strength (off: 5/0, def: 0/5)

Spell book: Greater Protection, Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 6 Defense: 6 Networth: 9.5 Cost: 1200
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


So this version of a Human would be one where the idea is that you can make anything out of them. The military science can go either way and you have the numbers to support focusing on defense or offense. You can be an attacker. With attacker buildings and your increased ME sci, you can reach usual attacker numbers. The trade off, of course is that you are weaker to TM ops.

---

I really like this suggestion and I think it's in the rigth direction, but I think they'd be a little too weak -- well...by itself, not so bad, but I believe that they will be nerfind sciences substantially enough that +30% ME won't be quite so grand. Those penalties are really harsh, though.

Consider a late game province with +10% OME/DME...A human would have +13%...3% bonus OME/DME doesn't make up for a 6/6 Elite and -1/-1 to specs. An early game human is in even more trouble. Furthermore, you can't really make anything of this human...definitely don't want to make a TM out of it because of it's bad Arcane Science

Right now, I think Dwarf fits their versatile race role the most...


HOWEVER - I definitely like your idea and think that Humans could very sensibly be the more versatile ones

If you want a versatile human
Human

Bonuses
Income Penalty Protection
+30% Science Effectiveness

Penalties
None

Spell book: Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 7 Defense: 6 Networth: 10.5 Cost: 1300
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


Giving them a bonus to all sciences means they can play basically anything. 7/6 elite rather than 6/6 is because they need to have something comparable to other attackers to even be considered a viable attacker. Then adjusting the cost to elites and increasing the NW to the elites makes their "Penalty" fall more to NW difference and such - making them suffer higher losses to larger oponents if they choose to run the 100% elite army, etc...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smercjd

Human

Bonuses
Income Penalty Protection
+30% Science Effectiveness

Penalties
None

Spell book: Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 7 Defense: 6 Networth: 10.5 Cost: 1300
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

---

I like this and would definitely enjoy playing that version of human. Though i am thinking that 7/6 with just over all better sci might be too much. As an attacker with full stables they'd be working on a raw 9 offense per elite+horse combo, plus better all round science. Also partly i figured Dwarf was the Econ all-rounder with their BE bonus. The following probably closer reflects my thoughts on Humans:

Human

Bonuses
+30% Income
Income Penalty Protection
+100% Military Science Effectiveness

Penalties
-1 spec strength (off: 5/0, def: 0/5)

Spell book: Blood Lust, Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 6 Defense: 6 Networth: 10.5 Cost: 1300
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


So you really are relying heavily on your ability to pump science to have an effective military - but that can be either way. The reason i put the -1 specs in is for those long econ heavy wars where that Human income bonus plus the bonus ME sci would spell a prov who could build up some very strong off/def quickly - so hopefully it moves their specs more into the realm of cannon fodder with their Elites being, far more precious to keep. Start of the age, that income bonus means Human can train just a little bit more, and if they're pumping their ME science already, then that -1 on the specs could quickly become less of an issue. With Blood Lust plus early Military science plus IA plus Income bonus, Humans could compensate for their -1 spec by just having more and casting blood lust - preserving the intent to make the specs like cannon fodder, similar to that of Orc's specs.

At 6/6 with 100% Military science efficiency, late game that should mean that while everybody else is on +10% ME, Humans will have +20% ME. With Elite+Horse (8/6) plus that +20%, looking at around 10/6 per Elite+horse combo, whereas an Orc would come out at 12/1 with their Elite+Horse+ME. Of course there is more factors to Military Science than just ME. Pushing Gains science could make them competitive Orc's racial by end of age.

To put it plainly, this version of Human would be aimed at having such a potentially strong Military, in either Offense or Defense, that they'd be versatile in how their pop is distributed - and players are well rewarded if they over commit in science to just ME science.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kido

I like this and would definitely enjoy playing that version of human. Though i am thinking that 7/6 with just over all better sci might be too much. As an attacker with full stables they'd be working on a raw 9 offense per elite+horse combo, plus better all round science. Also partly i figured Dwarf was the Econ all-rounder with their BE bonus. The following probably closer reflects my thoughts on Humans:

Human

Bonuses
+30% Income
Income Penalty Protection
+100% Military Science Effectiveness

Penalties
-1 spec strength (off: 5/0, def: 0/5)

Spell book: Blood Lust, Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 6 Defense: 6 Networth: 10.5 Cost: 1300
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1


So you really are relying heavily on your ability to pump science to have an effective military - but that can be either way. The reason i put the -1 specs in is for those long econ heavy wars where that Human income bonus plus the bonus ME sci would spell a prov who could build up some very strong off/def quickly - so hopefully it moves their specs more into the realm of cannon fodder with their Elites being, far more precious to keep. Start of the age, that income bonus means Human can train just a little bit more, and if they're pumping their ME science already, then that -1 on the specs could quickly become less of an issue. With Blood Lust plus early Military science plus IA plus Income bonus, Humans could compensate for their -1 spec by just having more and casting blood lust - preserving the intent to make the specs like cannon fodder, similar to that of Orc's specs.

At 6/6 with 100% Military science efficiency, late game that should mean that while everybody else is on +10% ME, Humans will have +20% ME. With Elite+Horse (8/6) plus that +20%, looking at around 10/6 per Elite+horse combo, whereas an Orc would come out at 12/1 with their Elite+Horse+ME. Of course there is more factors to Military Science than just ME. Pushing Gains science could make them competitive Orc's racial by end of age.

To put it plainly, this version of Human would be aimed at having such a potentially strong Military, in either Offense or Defense, that they'd be versatile in how their pop is distributed - and players are well rewarded if they over commit in science to just ME science.

---

This is a crazy change and my gut wants to be like "OH NO THAT's TOO MUCH!" But...is it?

Keep in mind that it's not just OME/DME affected by military science. There's also Gains, Dragon Slaying, Training Time, Draft Speed/Costs...etc.

It's definitely a much more enjoyable change and adds LIFE to the game. I think a change like that would be extremely fun to play, but the other races/personalities would also need to experience similar changes to balance things out.

EDIT: Umm...maybe not Blood Lust, though :p

EDIT 2: The other thing that makes this really interesting is that it could really place a heavy impact on kingdoms that are playing against Humans to incorporate science damaging wars...Running amnesia and learns in war to make the Humans less effective, etc. -- This is a good thing IMO because it adds more to the strategy approaches.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kido

Human

Bonuses
+30% Income
Income Penalty Protection
+100% Military Science Effectiveness

Penalties
-1 spec strength (off: 5/0, def: 0/5)

Spell book: Blood Lust, Inspire Army, Quick Feet
Elite: Offense: 6 Defense: 6 Networth: 10.5 Cost: 1300
Soldiers: Offense: 1 Defense: 1

---

I really like this and my first thought is Sage >.<

But I am sure there is a way that could be mitigated. A versatile race would be cool though.

Hey, thought I’d bump this up for the new age.