UK is gonna make $$$
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UK is gonna make $$$
When? The pound is in freefall. No sympathy for the UK, they did it to themselves.
In before Northern Ireland and Scotland secede.
Why stay in a relationship that you don't have input? It is good for the working class, horrible for business.... Great for Barcelona... Now they get players in ManU or Liverpool due to working visa
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7099276.html
It has begun.
Know who really did it to themselves? The EU.
When you assume that over 80% of your own people are too retarded to be allowed to think for themselves, don't be surprised when enough of those people lash out at you. People who are never forced to ask themselves that question never will, over 30 years of living has shown that over and over again.
Bet in two weeks No will be turned into Yes and all will be for naught.
For what it's worth if it were me over there I'd have voted Remain, but only with the full understanding that I've been ****ed over a barrel and left with a rotten choice to endorse a union that sucks donkey balls, or a bunch of nationalist ****tards who will run the country into the ground. Yay democracy.
Poor England. how shalt thou ever build Jeruzalem on thou green and pleasant lands?
To be fair, the number of people that are too stupid to think for themselves is much closer to 80% than 0%Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
See, that mentality is the problem. You've pre-assumed that these people aren't worthy of their own lives and that affects the policies that have been enacted by the political class as of late, so people see austerity and blame the powers that be. That they can be shown numbers and proof that leaving is a bad idea, but they're inclined to distrust someone who's already drawn a line and made the underclass their enemy.
It is a problem which is intractable by this point though. The ruling powers have done too much bad and made their opinion clear. I'm not going to cry when they die. Unfortunately, I wind up dead or worse before they do.
I'm not attacking the underclass. I'm attacking morons. Morons that exist on every side
You then accept a class of people who deserve to be attacked for not fitting your standard of intelligence - and that defintion is tied to agreement with a global system which seeks their removal. If someone creates that class and makes sure they are a permanent minority, they can try to control it - which is the direction neoliberalism chose for itself - but they lost control of the mob and now they get to pay for it. How much is TBD - I don't think anyone really wants to change that much
The best-case outcome is that the European Union gets smarter about why it exists, instead of resorting to threats of collapse to keep people scared. People should ask why the globalist world order brags about who gets to live and who gets to die, why the globalists seek to view 80% of the population as life unworthy of life. I doubt that will happen, not without a lot of bloodshed; and I fear ultimately the end result will be that evil will prevail. Certainly I won't be part of the new world order, that decision was made a long time ago. The alternative is that the technocratic class can sit the **** down, because they have failed spectacularly and run the world into the ground with their money-making schemes, for no good reason.
Do you think dogs and cats should able to vote on political issues too?Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
The view of the elitists is that the mass majority of people are no different than animals. You've made my point for me, and demonstrated why it is an intractable problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Problem is the mass majority of people are more intelligent and independent than animals, which the elitists will never respect.
Further, if you believe that these people are too stupid to think for themselves, shouldn't it be trivial to control what the stupid think and manipulate popular opinion? That is currently the state of the world, and the best and brightest just won't accept that they failed at controlling the masses, and need to attribute it to something other than their own fail. The intellectual, educated class has operated in an echo chamber and stifled dissent; and having watched this for so long, I know beyond a doubt that these people are literally incapable of believing anything else. The best and brightest are ****ing stupid and they will keep showing it, because no one will ever tell them no.
You're inferring too much and you didn't answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
The point I'm trying to make is that obviously there's a line for what is and is not an acceptable level of intelligence for contributing to extremely important political decisions. Ones that have an impact not just on your country, but a significant impact globally.
I'm not saying you need to have a PhD from Oxford or something, but not people that are literally caricatures featured on South Park episodes.
http://2.images.southparkstudios.com...pg?quality=0.8
Just have some sort of a rational understanding of the situation and not make a decision (either way) based on moronic propaganda.
The problem is that you're not dealing with caricatures, you're dealing with pissed-off people who will act, in one way or another. Usually those people do minor, stupid **** beneath the notice of decent, civilized people, but in this case they had a decision that will bite them in the ass, and Remain wasn't able to muster a decent counter-argument to the people who are pissed about globalization and taking it out on immigrants; nor were they able to make a decent argument to the older voters whose pensions are going to ****ed as a result.
Take Trump - I honestly believe no one should be voting for that pile of suet, but the reality is that many cannot tolerate four more years of Obama. Hillary's going to have to make a convincing case for liberal policy to address problems with the ACA, a looming social security crisis, and the problem of outrageous, extortionate education costs.
Sounds like the type of people that voted to leave are like the registered Republican that will vote for Donald Trump. Under informed, over persuaded people who tend to listen closer to their color lines than their thought processes thanks to fear-mongering.
It's just sad that even in this new millenia where were consider ourselves so advanced and sophisticated than ever thanks to technology but many always regress to a more primitive mindset when faced with adversity.
It's a joke to even think that we are far more advanced when over 40% of the people around you don't see the great potential of a unified humanity, choosing their petty and insignificant differences instead.
To be fear Cameron's basic argument is that "change is hard, leaving the EU is too complicated so just don't rock the boat k?" A better politician would have been able to make an argument which resonated to get out more of the vote for Remain.
My first instinct is that the rig was in for Remain, but perhaps I was wrong and a rig was in for Leave? Maybe the power in the EU doesn't want to hear Britain talking about reforming the unelected EU government and secretly wants this to happen? I dunno, but I don't have the greatest faith in the bourgie democratic process.
The problem with a unified humanity is that it really isn't going to be, not when 80% of humanity is deemed superfluous and cancerous. No one is ever going to ever question that until they start slaughtering some sacred cows.
Why think for yourself when you can always find a scapegoat to blame?
Discussing about a lack of intelligence is misleading if it implies some kind of organic/genetic/whathaveyou defect that makes rational thinking impossible. It's a cultural problem.
The common theme for those that voted for leaving was Old people, poorly educated and working class. Its very hard to counter those kind of people, they vote with heart not with mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
See your missing the point it's about freedom. To be free takes sacrifices and British people did the right thing. I hope Americans do the right thing by voting Trump in so we can take our country back. Political elites think they can do whatever they want. Look at crooked Hilary she sold out our country on several occasions as Secretary of State. Faces no punishment and some would actually vote for her to be president. Watch her first act as president will be to sell nukes for donations to her charity. The entire system is a joke and I am glad Britain had the courage to say no more. Let's hope Americans have the same courage.
Fixed that for youQuote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
There is significant correlation between political views and uto success.
There were legitimate grievances with the EU, how it's run and whether Britain should have been part of it as it was. It wasn't entirely a vote based on racism, and there wasn't enough enthusiasm on the left for Remain. It was mostly a centrist position based on not rocking the boat, and because most people believe that being in was just better than being out in the short term.Quote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Trump is not a vote for freedom. He's a straw man who if elected will do absolutely nothing good and probably defer to the neocons on all policy; he's the perfect way for the establishment to **** over the people of the country without getting blood on their hands.
Also, you do realize Trump and the Clintons are great friends, and Trump is doing everything he can to throw the election?
Its an interesting connection if one can conceive the dems orchestrated Trump as the oppositional character under their control. I have a disdain for the 2 party system and think we need more voices to choose from, so my vote is going to Gary Johnson.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
Freedom my hole. A bunch of thick racists fed outright lies by another racist - proof here - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a7102831.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by handofthrawn
Wales and Cornwall already looking for the EU funding handouts to continue.
Cameron jumping ship because he knows what a ****up this will be.
On the other hand, it's now way cheaper for me to bring a car in from the UK and nip across the border for booze. Also a lot of talk about UK companies relocating to Ireland for trade with the EU.
For a huge amount of people it was absolutely about racism - Muslims and immigrants coming in and taking peoples jobs and the EU forced the UK to accept them. Sure they were several legitimate and compelling arguments for leaving but do not think for a second that peoples prejudices and ignorance were not exploited.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
Also the UK politicians were forever shifting blame for issues onto the EU, no way were they going to reverse that narrative in such a short space of time.
I just wanna know... Will this brexit affect utopia...
Only thing that matters really...Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkz Azn
Obviously ye olde racism was a driver for Leave, but I've read from people on the far left who just want to see the world burn and FSU the financial sector.
I think this is like Donald Trump wrecking the GOP primary. The far right has gone ape**** and burned conservatism. If only the left had any balls and could go in for the kill.
I keep hearing people say the EU forced people into taking in migrants...But do you all forget that one of the bigger political powers in the EU WAS Great Brittan itself? And that GB itselfs was no small party in the organisation and governing of the current EU? And that, from now on, the EU WILL take decisions which Great Brittan will have to follow WITHOUT theire own concent.
I find it kind of ironic.
Also, I am Dutch, living in smart folks bubble. Of which many of the smartest moved to London. And some of them already canceled theire jobs and are busy moving out. GB does not ONLY loose those dreaded poor refugees, but also loads of brain-power. Well done:P
Also, welcome to stay, dear Scottish:D It would be strange if the English can leave the EU freely and you would not be able to leave the UK freely. Would it not?
Yeah absolutely, a fair chunk of people feel their government failed them and wanted to stick 2 fingers up to them by voting leave.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
Which is ****ing mental. Like the UK will suddenly go investing in ****holes like Cornwall and Sunderland. Lol. The EU gave like 4 billion back to ****ty areas in Wales and Scotland. The UK government however for years systematically let those areas sink into an absolute cesspit of unemployment and underfunding. But suddenly leaving the EU will allow the likes of Newcastle (a mining and steel works town) to grow thousands of jobs internally. It's just bat **** crazy.
Free movement of people in the EU. This also means people can move out. Britain's youth voted massively to stay in EU. They are raging their opportunities have been curtailed so heavily.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meish
The leave campaign focused heavily on stopping those damn immigrants taking jobs from "hardworking" Brits. Jobs they can't and won't do.
Easier to steer the car with one hand on the wheel, they overplayed their hand. Boris looks like he can't believe this happened. Bluff was called, panic stations now.
Having said that, its the elderly who stopped the Brits from speaking German, and its the elderly that have paid so much into the system. Also not all 'working' class families have that luxury to move abroad and spend money in Spain or wherever. Furthermore, its the southern European countries some of whom are IN the EU who have 50% youth unemployment. They dont even govern themselves, the EU tells them what to do and where to spend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
So...does that mean, because "they stopped us from speaking German" they ve got a right to screw the next generation over now? What they did in WW2 has nothing, nada, zip to do with it. Fact remains, they are old and unable to evolve with the modern world. Sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
Than, the remaine voters are more often high eductaed (what might that mean hmmmm--> advanced logics?;))...still in this case, the working classers who wan't out will suffer under the bad:/
Furthermore, define "Youth unemployement". Yes some countries in the south aren't doing that well...true. But, so...your point being? What I can make from your last line is: If a country ****s up the United government formed by EU countries step in and "help" the country to get back on track. Sounds pretty decent to me;)
I agree its a side point but an important point to remember, and I was responding to Bishop. I mean, you are saying how they screwed the younger generation which is kind of disrespectful imho. I'm pointing out that they are the reason the younger generation exist as English speakers. They all have 1 vote surely that is something you would agree with? and that is the main point here.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Meish
Hmmm, not sure exactly what you're point is here, could you elaborate and back up your claim with data?Quote:
Originally Posted by Meish
My point is that the EU is not as good for the youth as was claimed. Greece would have recovered better if they were sovereign, had their own currency and done what any normal country would do which was to de-valuate currency and boost their economy. Instead they are stuck with a monetary policy decided by the EU which screws their chances of recover. I hear there is another bailout soon.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Meish
Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
Not true, they are the children of the people that did that.
Any evidence the EU has totalitarian control over governance in Southern European countries?Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
Either way, its just a non factor point when it comes to the result of the referendum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Araqiel
Totalitarian? no. But take a look at what happened in Greece.Quote:
Originally Posted by Araqiel
So...what was wrong with Greece...it was a corrupt country with a population with benefits payed for by loans they could not pay back. It was either bankrupt or reform under pressure. And not just pressure of the EU, also the IMF and other money lenders. The Greek people in the long run might well have an advantage thanks to this, because thanks to the EU structure there is someone checking theire picked corrupt government... And helping them to form a decent and working system.
Look, I could not agree with you more regarding the corruptness of Greece and the unsuitability of its welfare program. However for me, I like what Churchill once said "democracy is the worst form of government that has been created, except for all the others." It cant be that the creators of democracy can have it swept away from them. I could not disagree more with your notion that foreign entities should be allowed to interfere with another countries democratic process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meish
Well other countries normally should not. But, if you borrow borrow a foundation money and they did spend it all on booze instead of healthy food...would you not send in someone to get your money back? And would they not take custody over the foundation untill all is in order again?Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
What would have done to make Greece repay its debt? Or would you just have said: "HUh? all my money gone to booze? Oh...ah wel.. ****...I don't like ehm anymore... ---> leading to the collapse of the foundation heavilly influencing all around it.// you giving even more money to prefend collapse