Ask Realest Returns

Thanks again Realest; I really appreciate the thoughtful and well-reasoned answers.

I was slightly worried of an opponent T/M MV'ing off my NB and casting storms after that. If done well, that might be a real pain to the max-gains strat. Though, ultimately it's up to my kingdom to weigh the odds of that happening, so I don't expect you to respond to this :)

Your answers sound great! .. I also remember your comment about Merchant personality being active 24/7, while the usefulness of Shepherd (and Cleric, etc, for that matter) bonuses can really vary depending on circumstances. So yeah, Merchant does look like the clear winner now.


New question: What is your approach to oversending on attacks to improve chance of success (in both the cases of either using intel taken by halfers or otherwise)? More specifically, by what % do you oversend in each situation? As far as I know, many players are quite confused over this issue, and consequently bounce some of their attacks without really knowing what they did wrongly.

Also, how important is it to use halfers' intel as much as possible?

lol I think half the server will be merchant next age

Have others copied your max-gains strategy? and did you really come up with it? Utopia's been around a while, I feel like someone would have thought of it...

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Originally Posted by hydroxon

Thanks again Realest; I really appreciate the thoughtful and well-reasoned answers.

I was slightly worried of an opponent T/M MV'ing off my NB and casting storms after that. If done well, that might be a real pain to the max-gains strat. Though, ultimately it's up to my kingdom to weigh the odds of that happening, so I don't expect you to respond to this :)

Your answers sound great! .. I also remember your comment about Merchant personality being active 24/7, while the usefulness of Shepherd (and Cleric, etc, for that matter) bonuses can really vary depending on circumstances. So yeah, Merchant does look like the clear winner now.


New question: What is your approach to oversending on attacks to improve chance of success (in both the cases of either using intel taken by halfers or otherwise)? More specifically, by what % do you oversend in each situation? As far as I know, many players are quite confused over this issue, and consequently bounce some of their attacks without really knowing what they did wrongly.

Also, how important is it to use halfers' intel as much as possible?

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if you get stormed, its not the end of the world, find a kdmate to drought you, which should be easy to do. Also, if the enemy is using up their mana/runes/mages to MV you, thats resources that could be spent elsewhere (fireball, nado, etc.). If they MV for the purpose of storming you, you'd have to think theyre not that efficient with their resources. The idea is not to be immune to everything; its about making the proper trade offs to maximize your effectiveness. If they want to go to such lengths to do something, let them. You'll captilize.

Oversend 7% on nonhalfer intel which you got with 20% thieves +1, oversend 3% on halfer WAR intel. Using halfer WAR intel is really preference; if youre really tight on hitting or multi-tapping, then you'd want more precision. If you're just hitting once either way, send that extra 500 units; not like those 500 units will make or break whether you are unbreakable :p

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Originally Posted by kbone

lol I think half the server will be merchant next age

Have others copied your max-gains strategy? and did you really come up with it? Utopia's been around a while, I feel like someone would have thought of it...

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I dont claim to be the inventor of this strategy. Utopia culture ebbs and flows. Before the current era of "chaining" and "hybrids", where there was super high attack times and so forth, the mechanic was all about max gaining. What is effective will slowly prevail to the masses; the smart and good players adapt quickly, while the less competent straggle and lag behind. Its the nature of the food chain.

Watch top wars; you'll notice the good sucessful kds adopt a similiar approach, while the kds that struggle age in and age out are because they dont innovate.

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Originally Posted by Realest

if you get stormed, its not the end of the world, find a kdmate to drought you, which should be easy to do. Also, if the enemy is using up their mana/runes/mages to MV you, thats resources that could be spent elsewhere (fireball, nado, etc.). If they MV for the purpose of storming you, you'd have to think theyre not that efficient with their resources. The idea is not to be immune to everything; its about making the proper trade offs to maximize your effectiveness. If they want to go to such lengths to do something, let them. You'll captilize.

Oversend 7% on nonhalfer intel which you got with 20% thieves +1, oversend 3% on halfer WAR intel. Using halfer WAR intel is really preference; if youre really tight on hitting or multi-tapping, then you'd want more precision. If you're just hitting once either way, send that extra 500 units; not like those 500 units will make or break whether you are unbreakable :p

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Ooops, using drought to cancel storms.. I totally forgot about that; thanks! Also nice explanation using concept of allocative efficiency (and opportunity cost).

My calculation for non-halfer intel is 1.035 / 0.965 * 0.97 / 0.97 = 1.07254 (thanks for confirming the 7% rule),
and with halfer WAR (nice reminder) intel, it's same as above but without the " / 0.97 " at the end, which is roughly oversend 4%, according to http://wiki.utopia-game.com/index.ph...Offense_to_Win

Is there a reason behind going 1% less than what wiki recommended?

Your explanation on using halfer WAR intel only when precision is needed for tight hits is great advice as well ... actually that's what I thought too, but it's always good to hear it from the expert :)

Oh, in that case, 4% is right, use that for halfling war intel.

Cool! Mere words cannot express my gratitude :P

not a problem, glad i could help

"The idea is not to be immune to everything; its about making the proper trade offs to maximize your effectiveness. If they want to go to such lengths to do something, let them. You'll captilize."

One missing apostrophe and a minor misspelling notwithstanding (that I'd have never noticed without spell check, tbh), this is perhaps the best advice I've seen. It's the guiding principle behind target dpa, target tpa/WTs, econ, target selection, basically everything in the game. It even has a semicolon, a much neglected tool for conveying a good thought. I used to assume Realest was halfway jerking everyone's chain with these things, but I'm changing my mind on that.

While here, thought I'd post up two questions, partially related to that opportunity cost concept.

1. When do you switch to rob/kidnap(/ToG/prop?) in place of NS or other direct damage? Is the trigger related to the "overgrowing problem" in max gains? If you never switch, what else is acceptable to give up to try to grow into the land? I think you mentioned homes for BR in max gains, despite conventional wisdom saying never build homes in war.

2. Sage vs. Merch - I gather you are a fan of Merchant, far more than I. But I'm wondering how/why you justify giving up the pop and income (and BE) bonus of sage for only income bonuses? Even in a max gain setting, I'd think sage makes a good showing, but I'd guess you disagree, at least in part.

screw that octobrev, suplement your income with gold you rob from farms.

I hope next age a KD runs 20-22 elfs with the goal of fireballing ~15 provinces at once. With the huge mystic bonuses there is no reason you couldn't except that an active kd would rape your runes hard.

You can weight whats better, having more peasents and training lots of troops, or chaining and training less troops on less land but forcing some to be aided back into the picture...

Both are valid concepts but with how difficult they have made chaining and a lack of a raze to eliminate a province compleatly, the added earnings per peasent a few ages ago and the huge econ bonus currently on merchant it does seem like a better time then ever to max gain all war.

I have always thought total peasents is one of the most important factors in a war... also a huge reason why banks are so uber.

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Originally Posted by Ethan

1. When do you switch to rob/kidnap(/ToG/prop?) in place of NS or other direct damage? Is the trigger related to the "overgrowing problem" in max gains? If you never switch, what else is acceptable to give up to try to grow into the land? I think you mentioned homes for BR in max gains, despite conventional wisdom saying never build homes in war.

2. Sage vs. Merch - I gather you are a fan of Merchant, far more than I. But I'm wondering how/why you justify giving up the pop and income (and BE) bonus of sage for only income bonuses? Even in a max gain setting, I'd think sage makes a good showing, but I'd guess you disagree, at least in part.

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Good strategies are not rigid, and 5% homes to convey some BR bonus is a minimal investment that pays itself off quite well. The thing with homes is not to enter war with them, because they cause too much flux within your province to make it worth it. However, phasing in 5% from 0% is very good. You can run the math if that makes you more comfortable, but qualitatively, more peasants is more money, more soldiers, more nw, which propel other aspect of your province.

1. In terms of using NS vs other ops, this really depends on your war. In most cases, you can't go wrong with NSing stuff, and when when you begin to dominate your opponent so much that you no longer need to NS to open targets up, then feel free to rob resources, burn GS, kidnap and so on. There's no set railway path or checklist that you do when you go to war. Every event opens up new options, and you just have to make the call based on experience or at least approach it logically.

2. Im a huge fan of Sage also but the problem with Sage is that the start up is slow, and you don't really utilize it to its full potential until at least midage or so, assuming skilled management of the personality. Merchant is easy and dummy proof, and its hard to go wrong with cold hard cash. You're right, in a vacuum on paper, Sage works out to be superior, but the investment is much greater (mainly time). If you have the patience, and your kingdom goals/setups can complement you, Sage is not a wrong choice. I'd pick Merchant personally and thats just utopia. There's no right answer, just a best answer depending on context.

bump, my greatness deserves top spot.

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Originally Posted by Ethan

One missing apostrophe and a minor misspelling notwithstanding (that I'd have never noticed without spell check, tbh), this is perhaps the best advise I've seen. ... I used to assume Realest was halfway jerking everyone's chain with these things, but I'm changing my mind on that.

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Sorry, troll-impulse at work here... Ethan, there is a certain irony in pointing out a misspelling while making a misspelling in the same sentence; "advise" should be spelt "advice" (the reason for which I shall leave for you to find out on your own) :P

"Best advise [sic] [you've] seen"? It's not too late to start noticing now where all the real advice is coming from :D

Oh and on a non-trolling note, your questions and the subsequent answers really benefited my understanding. Thanks :)

Oooh Realest, could you elaborate on the kind of flux that homes cause within a province (and why it is harmful)?

cash is king - end of story (IRL and here)