New Anticheat Measure Going Live Today

[QUOTE=Palem;15119260]That is correct.

You will need to adjust the kds strategy with your situation. Taking your above example, I trust your kd has more than 1 mage, so split up the responsibility of spreading MS around. You shouldn't be responsible for op'ing any prov that your wife might interact with and likewise your wife shouldn't be responsible for attacking anyone who you're putting ops on.





Question/remark #1
Ok, so I understand the concerns of having 2 people from 1 house playing in the same kingdom. Here is what I have an issue with and what could be done about it. If I am a mage and my wife is an Attacker, why cant I put meteors on everyone in the kingdom and she can attack anyone. That is in no real way helping her directly other than doing something that every mage does. It may not be possible to select certain ops that you can or can not do before your wife attacks the province, so i can understand how this may not work, so lets move on to remark #2 which is much more advisable and achievable for the mods!

Question/remark #2
If number 1 is not reasonable, how come you cant put a time limit on this of about 12-24 hours (only during war). As I posted in my first post in this thread #233, we just finished an 8 day marathon war. While it will not be impossible, it will be extremely difficult to only work down 1/2 the provinces in a kingdom as a mage and hope to hell that the other mage is doing his job because I cant work someone down because of this new system. By the end of the war, we are rotating targets, chaining targets we chained down 5 days ago. If I got a som or put meteors on a province 5 days ago, that wont help my wife at all. Why should we be punished, we are an all Orc kingdom, most of our wars will last longer than 48 hours and the longer we go, the harder it will be for us to rotate our targets (especially with provinces changing sizes so rapidly).




I would say that #2 is very much a possibility for the mods to work into the system. This would still make it possible for couples, roomates, family all to be in the same kingdom. The rules will be in place and it will be a challenge, but it would not be impossible to war for more than 5 days, which it seems it would be with the current conditions.

12-24 hours is all that I ask to make these rule changes a little more sane!



Thank you!

Rob and Nancy from Wanna Play!

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Originally Posted by DDodge

quit raging, take a deep breath.

re-read lastunicorn's posts, they are useful explanations.

it prevents cheating from happening. it is a good thing. if you aren't cheating then ur fine, you have to adjust gameplay because their are evil people in the world. welcome to life, welcome to utopia.

im sure issues with singapore will be worked out.

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Quit raging, DDodge, and read my post carefully. It is a useful explanation.

If you are guilty until proven innocent, any preventative measure (for irl application, USA airport security) you are a cheater until you prove you are not. If you aren't cheating you're still a cheater and can suck it up because the game is addicting, but it doesn't make it not fascist. Welcome to life, welcome to utopia.

Im not going to read through 12 pages before giving my comment.

Quiet frankly, I like the idea of stopping cheaters, but from the few pages I did read... the cheaters are ALREADY working ways around this system. I used to play in the same KD as my brother untill he quit.

Just want to clarify... if my brother decided to play again I should not be in his KD, because we live in the same house...

We use different computers are we still blocked from interactions?

Whitelisting doesn exist anymore? Doesn seem fair....
no whitelisting means one of two things, either, now everyone can multi again they just cant interact with thier multis... OR every legit whitelisted person will soon get deleted after years of playing together.

I know everyone complaining about this, and even though it doesnt directly affect me, ive been trying to convince my brother to play again ever since he quit... if he starts playing randomly without telling me does that risk me being deleted because we in the same house??

Bull Shait I say.

System sounds cool, good system, but sounds to me like you just dont know how to encorperate the whitelisted players where they dont get flagged... so its stupid.

System (in theory) good, needs to encorperate the whitelisted players.

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Originally Posted by Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)

Im not going to read through 12 pages before giving my comment.

Quiet frankly, I like the idea of stopping cheaters, but from the few pages I did read... the cheaters are ALREADY working ways around this system. I used to play in the same KD as my brother untill he quit.

Just want to clarify... if my brother decided to play again I should not be in his KD, because we live in the same house...

We use different computers are we still blocked from interactions?

Whitelisting doesn exist anymore? Doesn seem fair....
no whitelisting means one of two things, either, now everyone can multi again they just cant interact with thier multis... OR every legit whitelisted person will soon get deleted after years of playing together.

I know everyone complaining about this, and even though it doesnt directly affect me, ive been trying to convince my brother to play again ever since he quit... if he starts playing randomly without telling me does that risk me being deleted because we in the same house??

Bull Shait I say.

System sounds cool, good system, but sounds to me like you just dont know how to encorperate the whitelisted players where they dont get flagged... so its stupid.

System (in theory) good, needs to encorperate the whitelisted players.

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System is more bugged than good atm, see my examples on page 23 if you want to know more

Final fantasy, there are even more glitches I didnt wanna mention, because cheaters dont need help working around the system...

Lik A aids B.... B then aids C, so then aids D.... and A/D are spouses....

I have a question, how long does the ban last?

If I attack a province... does that mean my spouse cannot attack that province for rest of age? or for 8 hours? or a week?.....

regardless, if I understand correctly, its all moot point.... Because all spouses and formerly whitelisted players no longer have the "luxery" of playing together, and they will soon get deleted.

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Originally Posted by Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)

Final fantasy, there are even more glitches I didnt wanna mention, because cheaters dont need help working around the system...

Lik A aids B.... B then aids C, so then aids D.... and A/D are spouses....

I have a question, how long does the ban last?

If I attack a province... does that mean my spouse cannot attack that province for rest of age? or for 8 hours? or a week?.....

regardless, if I understand correctly, its all moot point.... Because all spouses and formerly whitelisted players no longer have the "luxery" of playing together, and they will soon get deleted.

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Bishop said in the last 2-3 pages that the time was 3 days

im not directly effected with this change
but here is my thoughts

1.You have directly shared an IP address with the province you are attacking or aiding
the aid thingy surely wont work
since we can always send to some1 else in the kd, then s/he resend the aid
if its blocked with the interact, then resend to another prov ( the 4th prov not interacting with 1st prov aka sender)
2.You are attacking a province who has recently been attacked by other provinces that have shared IPs with you.
recently?
how long does it take for the effect to wore off?

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Originally Posted by Palem

I say we go back to not allowing more than 1 person play from the same house because apparently we've forgotten that playing with people we live with is a luxury.

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Im still confused... i was assuming we WERE going back to that. As xlogging incures deleteion... and they would all look like Xloggers (the formerly whitelisted)

if the white list doesnt exist anymore... I demand that anyone using same IP be deleted as cheaters.

How you gonna determine the diff between spouses and multis without a whitelist? YOU CANT.

So either the whitelist exists or you delete them all. right?

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Originally Posted by Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)

Im still confused... i was assuming we WERE going back to that. As xlogging incures deleteion... and they would all look like Xloggers (the formerly whitelisted)

if the white list doesnt exist anymore... I demand that anyone using same IP be deleted as cheaters.

How you gonna determine the diff between spouses and multis without a whitelist? YOU CANT.

So either the whitelist exists or you delete them all. right?

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I hope not, i have 5 former Whitelisters here in my kd , 2 pairs in the kd and 1 person who has a roomate playing in another kd and we're at war

This new system is super ****ed up. Yes, I said ****ED... ban me.. I don't care... I'll quit the game soon anyway!

We are several players from the same country playing in the same KD.

Guess what?

We use to login from the phones when we are not home, not at the office and so on. Because of that, now in war, none of us can hit the same targets, actually one of us can't do anything - too low land/nw and his own size targets can't be attacked coz of this anti cheating blocking crap!

You can trace my ip and see in which KD I'm playing and see if we are multies or real ppl, if you don't believe it! So how is this system helping us ? It doesn't ... I'm 99% we will all quit the game after this war ( 7-8 players )! Also this has a huge influence on the other KD mates... the moral is low.. and several others are thinking to quit...

Until now we believed in this game, used credits all the time to support the game -> for invites, for province sitting etc. (can be checked) and now our last 2 ages work is ruined...

Thanks for doing such a good job at catching cheaters :)

What is all the fuss about?

I like this measure. When put in place with all the other anti-cheat strategies it makes sense.

1. As long as your provinces don't interact you are OK (i.e You can't attack each other - i.e Farm a province). This measure prevents this further.

2. It simply prohibits those that were whitelisted from helping each other out. In my KD I don't have someone who I can immediately call/shout to to send me aid or get me some intel or aid. I might be in a ghetto, but have to wait until someone is online to ask, or post in the forums. Those in a decent KD who are on IRC/MSN can't complain because you could ask someone else. Why should those who were whitelisted be any different? OMG you have to send aid to a middle man! It's the apocalypse!!!

You can't interact with the same province in an enemy KD... Last time I checked there was a maximum of 25 provinces in a KD. Plus, unless you really have something against one province, I cannot see an organised KD using all 25 of their provinces on one. That is overkill.

If I were you, I would be bloody glad that they let you play in the same KD, from the same IP. It gives them enough issues as it is, and is probably more hassle than its worth.

This system won't work for players in the same KD.

Example: your KD is going to war. Province A is a T/M and province B is an attacker. The other KD you are going to war gets unfriendly with you so province A starts spreading MS to all of their attackers. Once that happens, province B cannot attack ANY province that province A has cast MS on or done any op to.

If both provinces are attackers, you are basically down one attacker in a chain and that keeps multiplying as the war goes on. Let's say province A is getting chained and he is going to do 4 ambush attacks since the first 4 hits were the biggest. He does his ambushes and now province B can't do anything to the 4 he did an ambush on.

ANY interaction with a province prohibits another player from that IP address from doing any further ops for a specified time period.

The aid thing work around is useless and if you accidentally send aid to another person on the same IP, all of that aid just disappears. Doesn't just get blocked from being sent, it gets eaten up by the game.

Haha this is so silly. Whitelisted people have had a very unfair advantage for ages, being able to log each other's prov freely (don't give me any BS about this never happening in those instances). It's over now, but you can still both play the game. Be happy about that.

I am very upset that I can no longer pretend to be married so I can dual log.

Well, since I am not a dev or mod, and am free to voice my opinion without worrying about my wording bothering someone too much:

This is not Fascism, this is not a democracy, this is not a republic...this is a privately run company that hosts a game that we all play.

Since (from what I understand), the game already costs the devs money to run, it's obviously not turning a profit. As such, deal with how they decide to handle things, or shut the **** up and leave. That simple. The sooner all of the whiners leave, the closer the devs are to being able to close the game down with minimal disappointment, and stop losing money. If that's not what you want to see happen, suck it up and adjust.

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Originally Posted by Gallowmere

Well, since I am not a dev or mod, and am free to voice my opinion without worrying about my wording bothering someone too much:

This is not Fascism, this is not a democracy, this is not a republic...this is a privately run company that hosts a game that we all play.

Since (from what I understand), the game already costs the devs money to run, it's obviously not turning a profit. As such, deal with how they decide to handle things, or shut the **** up and leave. That simple. The sooner all of the whiners leave, the closer the devs are to being able to close the game down with minimal disappointment, and stop losing money. If that's not what you want to see happen, suck it up and adjust.

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Obviously you're not a paying customer here then. Some people however, have paid. Some people have paid a LOT. When someone pays for a service, then that service changes on them, they have every single right to complain. And normally, customer service would attempt to resolve those complaints. I really hate that line "shut up and leave" - people have paid money. It's not their fault if the current plans don't turn a profit.

Moving along...

I idle in a KD's irc channel who so happens to have a married couple. Only one. In their channel, when the changes first popped out - they were in a pump. I asked them what they felt, and the said "it sorta sucks, since we never xlog for each other, but we don't really have any contact with the same provinces, so I doubt it will really affect us" - exactly what DHaran and Bishop have been saying - their "research" was correct it seems. Most married couples won't experience too big of an issue.............. Today, their KD just got waved. Now it's almost comical to watch the realization that not having any same-province contact for 72 hours is a huge disadvantage to planning their war. I'm watching them pre-war decided what targets the TM isn't allowed to OP and which targets the attacker isn't allowed to attack.

Ok. To play devil's advocate for a quick second, I'll admit that the whitelist gave people the ability to xlog. Yes, this could be an advantage, but.. was it REALLY that BIG of advantage? With the ability to use cell phones, and most KD's idling in irc, and mates texting each other.. MOST of the advantages it would have had 40 ages ago are nil. Sure, they do experience *some slight* advantage, but it's obviously not THAT much, or the Top 10 KD's would each have 2 or 3 or 4 whitelisted couples... The top 100 provinces would be a majority of whitelisted couples... So on and so on.

Now, with this change, and after watching this KD plan their pre-war strategies, its quite obvious that sure - they're going to get around it... but at a *huge* disadvantage. If the TM gathers intel on someone who becomes a chain target 48 hours later, the attacker cant chain. I could go on and on about all the scenarios already discussed 100 times in this thread... but now I'm watching them actually unfold and it's ridiculous the careful planning that has to go into just making sure they can both participate so they're not down another province.

I understand you're trying to eliminate cheating, but the cheating you've eliminated by this wasn't causing a stupid advantage. You're not going to be able to multi GB a province with 2 friggen provinces. And if 3+ accounts shared the same IP. I'd hope that would be investigated rather quickly and shut down before they even got OOP. What's really funny is that it keeps being repeated here that it was unfair because a whitelisted couple could log for each other. Tell me how this change prevents that? They can still log for each other as often as they want. Just don't interact. So it's still an advantage. All that was done is that people can't perform their roles.

And just a little quote from their IRC room, obviously edited for anonymity:

[10:32] <~XXXXXXX> Its not an issue of wether or not I can get intel or MS coverage from another T/M, the issue is that I now can not 'freely' chain targets. Essentially one of my provinces (in this case the halfer) is being hobbled an forced to attack provinces low on the food chain (s**t gains) and is going to be using his 6tpa to steal gold/runes from fearies/elvees instead of NSing our chain targets.
[10:35] <~XXXXXXX> Had I known of this earlier I would have had him come in as an attacker an planned on him staying small just to pick on the lower end of the food chain. I now have to totally revamp his an her strats to accomadate the changes.

*sighs*

I totally take back the post I made several pages ago. This is doing nothing but hampering people. It isn't stopping cheating. Cheaters already know how to work around it. Course I did say that in the original post.

Now that we are in/going to war - I've really had my eyes opened on what I thought would be something easy to resolve and work around. It's not. And the emotional posts that I thought were putting the cart before the horse were actually right.

BTW - Hi Lirath!! ;)

@Nuriho - Cheaters are deleted. Have you been deleted? Then you're not a cheater.

@ Shadow27 - I agree, the time frame on the block makes or breaks this system and I agree that 3 days is too long. Luckily the devs aren't blind, deaf, and dumb to the community (despite what you may hear) and are open to suggestions on how to make it work. I've already put forth my suggestion but I haven't seen too many people follow suit.

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Originally Posted by Drop Dead Sexy (DDS)

So either the whitelist exists or you delete them all. right?

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This is incorrect and has already been discussed/explained by Bishop, DHaran, and myself.

Palem - Please look at reply #362 and tell me if remark #2 is possible. I would say it would level the playing field as you wish, but it will still make warring achievable with my wife in the same kingdom.

Thank you.

Yes, I think that's possible. That actually lines up perfectly with my suggestion

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Normal = 3 days
Unfriendly = 2 days
Hostile = 1 day
War = 12 hours?

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However, my opinion matters just as much as yours in this, so we'll see.

Thank you. I think this is very much a possibility. I understand the mods wanting to put this system in place, so instead of fighting it like everyone else. I am directly affected by this so I was thinking of solutions so my wife and I can still play in the same kingdom. 12 hours would be perfect for war, then I dont have to look 5 days down the road and predict who she is going to hit. I dont know any mods or have any ins with this game as you may do, you opinion may matter more than mine, I hope you can bring this to the proper people and they can take a real hard look at it.


Thank you.

Rob and Nancy from Wanna Play!

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Originally Posted by DDodge

two people playing in the same household is a massive advantage, and easily abused. Go home, log your account, log your "spouses" account, and you can coordinate anything you need perfectly.

its a team game, and yes top KDs will instantaneously contact each other, but thats the whole point of the game. playing two accounts from your IP is pretty sketchy/ab-usable.

before you respond that YOU personally only play your account and your significant other only plays theirs, please acknowledge the fact that any couple whitelisted CAN x-log each other with no penalty under the old system. If you have a better way to stop this from happening please share. Whitelisting has been a "get out of jail free" pass for couples to x-log for each other if the other even has work or an appointment or w/e. Its been abused massively.

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Yeah so you just prove its turning into a "PAY TO WIN" game since you are allowed SITTING. Just because you pay money its ok now huh?

Oh, and since my entire post of pointing out how this system is just wrong didn't include a suggestion, I'll add to it.

Obviously, no matter how much we talk about how this system is somewhat silly from the ground up. Knowing that this will effectively block the most minimal forms of cheating and advantages. Real cheating will circumvent this no problem. (I'm sorry, but logging on your wife's account to get that SoT is soooooooooooo not a big advantage.... having multis and farms all over the place to GB provinces is the real advantage, and that will continue.. people aren't too stupid about it).

But, if everyone is convinced this actually deals with cheating and curbs the enormous advantage that whitelisted people have... then here is my suggestion. Make the ban on ops 4 hours TOPS. If you can't have a KD mate hit a province, op a province, aid you, or get an SoT for you in 4 hours - then I don't care what kind of advantage you have, it's not gonna matter. 4 hours is more than plenty of time to prevent the instantaneous benefit that one could possibly have of being able to xlog their wife or husband or whatever else - after 4 hours, they should be able to participate in the wave or whatever. It's still a huge disadvantage at that rate IMO, but I think that would be a compromise. At 72 hours you might as well say that couples/siblings/ect people shouldn't play in the same KD, period. And again, the reason I think 4 hours is reasonable, but yet still a disadvantage is a competitive KD can get anything they need from another KD mate in WELL UNDER 4 hours.

***edited for clarity

Normal = 3 days
Unfriendly = 2 days
Hostile = 1 day
War = 12 hours?

This would be more doable but still a problem in hostile and wars. A 24 hour period where you can't do ops in Hostile is a lot.

Now if you went this way:

Normal=3 days
Unfriendly= 1 day
Hostile= 12 hours
War=6 hours

You might actually have something you can work around in a war. The current system is a total sham for players that did everything they were asked to do and play by the rules.

The aid thing also must be fixed. If I select a province by accident and send aid, it can't just disappear. Give a warning or something instead of the Access Denied so the aid isn't destroyed.

the whole aid thingy is funny ...

There was a tactic ... back than to mask-aiding ... to hide your true destination of either the solds pool or gc pool to either mass aid or solds bounce ...

this pretty much neglect that tactic.... lolll =)

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Originally Posted by Palem

@Nuriho - Cheaters are deleted. Have you been deleted? Then you're not a cheater.

@ Shadow27 - I agree, the time frame on the block makes or breaks this system and I agree that 3 days is too long. Luckily the devs aren't blind, deaf, and dumb to the community (despite what you may hear) and are open to suggestions on how to make it work. I've already put forth my suggestion but I haven't seen too many people follow suit.


This is incorrect and has already been discussed/explained by Bishop, DHaran, and myself.

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Originally Posted by Palem

@Nuriho - Cheaters are deleted. Have you been deleted? Then you're not a cheater.

@ Shadow27 - I agree, the time frame on the block makes or breaks this system and I agree that 3 days is too long. Luckily the devs aren't blind, deaf, and dumb to the community (despite what you may hear) and are open to suggestions on how to make it work. I've already put forth my suggestion but I haven't seen too many people follow suit.


This is incorrect and has already been discussed/explained by Bishop, DHaran, and myself.

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Being a fairly new player coming over from Earth2025...this system SUCKS! Not to mention you are incorrect. When Mehul owned it you could get white listed on Earth because we did it. If you call what DHaran says as "discussed" you need to get a clue. He and a few others have their noses so far up Bishops backside its laughable. I read this entire thread and he is nothing but a "Richard Cranium", condescending and arrogant. If he worked for me, he wouldn't for long due to the fact his people skills SUCK!

As far as the new "catching cheaters" program...I want to you know this will cost you the honest players and leave you with all the cheaters. Normally, the cheaters don't pay for anything because they are cheaters and circumvent the system. So, if you can honestly say that whitelisting is costly and time consuming just wait til you lose the money from the honest players and see what costs more. There have been a few questions asked here that were NEVER answered
The one I never saw answered was...

"Why in the middle of an age?" That's about dumb as hell to implement something half way thru.

I have more to say but I think I better stop because I can pick apart tons of things wrong with this new "catch all". It just seems you are trying to drive people from the game and doing exactly what Bishop(devs and others) said they would never do and turning it into a "Pay to Win" game. Sorry if I wanted to do that I could go buy a character from WoW.

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When Mehul owned it you could get white listed on Earth because we did it.

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Are you retarded? You are trying to say its incorrect by saying you could do it in a totally different game? Well, obviously you have no clue about Utopia, no you couldnt get whitelisted in Utopia. And on another note, how can you be fairly new if you are coming over from Earht cause Earth was shut down quite some time ago.

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you need to get a clue.

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I wouldnt throw stones in a glasshouse if i were you.

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I want to you know this will cost you the honest players and leave you with all the cheaters.

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Cause all the honest players has a partner they play with? Or they have several "friends" who they share IP with, in fact this wont effect most people at all, they will go on with their daily utopia business as nothing ever happend.


You could keep on trying to make stupid points, but you would still look as dumb. Cause you havent had one coherent point so far.

Could someone please explain to me how this system turns the game into pay-to-win?

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Originally Posted by Korp

Are you retarded? You are trying to say its incorrect by saying you could do it in a totally different game? Well, obviously you have no clue about Utopia, no you couldnt get whitelisted in Utopia. And on another note, how can you be fairly new if you are coming over from Earht cause Earth was shut down quite some time ago.



I wouldnt throw stones in a glasshouse if i were you.



Cause all the honest players has a partner they play with? Or they have several "friends" who they share IP with, in fact this wont effect most people at all, they will go on with their daily utopia business as nothing ever happend.


You could keep on trying to make stupid points, but you would still look as dumb. Cause you havent had one coherent point so far.

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Obviously YOU are the idiot because Earth is running. What are you about 19? Yeah, thats what I thought I wasn't addressing you and you stick your nose in where it doesnt belong. Typical. STFU and let the grown people talk.

Certainly Palem!

This only the first step, soon they will implent certain features that makes "cheating" legal, ie letting two people in the same household interact, its all a very devious plan. Then they will keep adding things till its unpossible to win if you dont pay for it!

Less flaming, more discussion please.

Hahaha seriously

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Originally Posted by Palem

Could someone please explain to me how this system turns the game into pay-to-win?

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Palem...its simple. You can buy a way to Babysit an account and attack the same province etc etc etc with someone else running it for you. Yet you want to penalize people who are honest and live in the same house where I can't op a country as a half/rogue then my wife as u/d and hit it. Yet if you are babysitting its legal... Therefore...as long as you pay for the babysitting its all good PAY TO PLAY otherwise legal cheating because you're paying for it

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Obviously YOU are the idiot because Earth is running.

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Thats a clone, you can call it Earth2025 but its not really Earth2025.

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What are you about 19? Yeah, thats what I thought I wasn't addressing you and you stick your nose in where it doesnt belong. Typical. STFU and let the grown people talk.

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If you havent notice this a public forum, if you just like a private conversation with someone there is a exellent messaging system but until then you have to just put up with other people voicing their opinion as well. Dont be so mad bro cause I made you look like a fool. Trying argue against my points instead of just trying to flame me (oh and if I am 19 years old i would certainly be qualified as an grown up) Not so much into logical thinking are you?

For the Last time people, the system does not stop Ops from INTERFERING WITH ATTACKS, proven already. It only STOPS multiple ATTACKS not ATTACK+Ops.

On a side note, look at http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...f-normal/page2 for possible abuse of the system

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Yet you want to penalize people who are honest and live in the same house where I can't op a country as a half/rogue then my wife as u/d and hit it.

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If you dislike cheaters you should dislike the whitelisting system, it opens up for quite alot of cheating. You could as well be playing both provs and there isnt a wife to begin with. What guarantees do you leave that there is actually an wife, your word? ...

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Originally Posted by Korp

Thats a clone, you can call it Earth2025 but its not really Earth2025.



If you havent notice this a public forum, if you just like a private conversation with someone there is a exellent messaging system but until then you have to just put up with other people voicing their opinion as well. Dont be so mad bro cause I made you look like a fool. Trying argue against my points instead of just trying to flame me (oh and if I am 19 years old i would certainly be qualified as an grown up) Not so much into logical thinking are you?

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Oh so...same name different owner is not the same game? Who is the fool now? Mehul DID own both of them and you COULD get white listed on earth AND Utopia. I was going to play Utopia before and got white listed but quit playing both because of BS like this. Also its funny you flamed me for my post but you don't like it.....go upstairs and cry to mommy. Oh and 19 does not make you a "grown up" it makes you an adult...BIG difference.

The topic of verifying a white list was already discussed as being a viable way to be white listed...which I have no problem doing. How about you stop whining when you don't get your way. Oh wait...that's right...you're only 19.

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Originally Posted by Azartyn

Palem...its simple. You can buy a way to Babysit an account and attack the same province etc etc etc with someone else running it for you. Yet you want to penalize people who are honest and live in the same house where I can't op a country as a half/rogue then my wife as u/d and hit it. Yet if you are babysitting its legal... Therefore...as long as you pay for the babysitting its all good PAY TO PLAY otherwise legal cheating because you're paying for it

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Copied from another thread:

Don't bull**** me with the "my wife plays utopia" line, because we all know that utopia is a cancer to any relationship. When I think of the term "he brings a lot to the table," waking up at 3am to making an attack on a bunch of nerds isn't one of them. Unless you MET your wife playing utopia, I will never buy it.

Good day!

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Oh so...same name different owner is not the same game?

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So Omac/Jolt gave the code to the people it wasnt like someoen built it from scratch again, same same but different.

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Who is the fool now? Mehul DID own both of them and you COULD get white listed on earth AND Utopia.

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Yes, Mehul did own both games, you're a smart one but you still couldnt get whitelisted in Utopia, take it from someone that play utopia far longer than you have. Your logic "Cause it so in one game it must be so in another game" doesnt quite work.

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I was going to play Utopia before and got white listed but quit playing both because of BS like this.

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BS like this? There was no BS like this during Mehuls reign.

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Also its funny you flamed me for my post but you don't like it.....go upstairs and cry to mommy.

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You're the one thats upset not me, chill a bit would you, flaming wont get you anywhere.

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Oh and 19 does not make you a "grown up" it makes you an adult...BIG difference.

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You have grown up when you're 19, or are you trying to saying you are using such diffuse terms that changes from person to person and trying to apply it in a conversation?

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Originally Posted by Palem

Could someone please explain to me how this system turns the game into pay-to-win?

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couples/roommates will have to pay for sitting to have their province 100% effective during war