LOL!! you might want to get a second opinion on that lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by beans
Edit: you also left out the parts about "no TM hits, no AW" ect. If that isn't s fake war i dont know what is.
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LOL!! you might want to get a second opinion on that lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by beans
Edit: you also left out the parts about "no TM hits, no AW" ect. If that isn't s fake war i dont know what is.
Priceless.
If we were going to fake war dont you think we would want the WW? or maybe demand you give us land in exchange for giving you a WW? No, all we wanted was a war. We didnt want to you to abandon any form of normal strategy and just max gain on our tms for honour because you knew we would WD so we did ask for some protection there. Yall could have taken the deal and pkd our attackers though, or massacred our hybrids, or what ever. Seems like a decent deal to me, it didnt to you? fine, dont take the deal... but to break a negotiations CF and wave us with no notice is low. Now dicks is getting what they give, nothing more and nothing less.
Maybe Bishop will clarify for you, if arranging the winner of a war before it starts is allowed or not.
Hint: It is not
Folle, that may be true. I don't know, I am back to utopia after playing the first ages then leaving during the rise of big alliances (and now back after 10+ years). There is a lot about modern utopia I dont know yet. I just go off what i remember and hasnt changed, what I can get from other players, and what i can get from the wiki.
the wiki on fake wars:
Non-aggression pact during war: Deletion of players making the agreement.
Attempts to manipulate war win rankings using friends to initiate multiple wars: Removal of war wins.
Agreement to trading acres for a war win: Monarchs of both kingdoms deleted and the removal of all war wins.
"Ending" a war before minimum war duration: Monarchs of both kingdoms deleted
We were not attempting to negotiate for any of those things. If agreeing to min time WD as a concession to get an enemy to war you is against the rules I'd appreciate that being clarified for me. To spartans it seemed pretty clear that no one would war us because they all assumed they would lose, so offering to min time WD as a concession to get a war seemed better then spending the rest of the age idle. The exact definition of fake war is very important, but also a side issue to the Cfs and waves. If it is a fake war, let us know bc this **** aint obvious to every one... or report us. Breaking a negotiation CF and waving because you dont like what is offered is bull though.
Clear deal break. The U stands with divinity but won't break any cf to hit Spartans unless we have to. However we will also not break any cf with emeriti or anyone else that decides to hit Spartans for their clear deal break.
If yall like divinity that's fine. But a deal to be accepted by a certain date is not a deal at all if taken after that date with out renegotiation. Everything from legal contracts to grocery store coupons work that way, no way it works any different in UTO.
perhaps...but http://pastebin.com/7WZegLjAQuote:
Originally Posted by beans
the offer i gave bart/heave/whatever deemed it a fake war because u guys would be waring 97v91k acres after having 4-5 days to pump? i dont know but to me a "hard" war you may lose seems a lot less fake than a 100% withdraw at min time where no aw nor t/m hits are allowed
Clear FW. Treat with gangbang.
#nodramainwartier
Persian if you want a war then forget the waves and bs and lets war on real terms. Yall waved us multiple times and so far we have just done one wave. If we war deal where both kds are around the same acres and yall have time to pump and recover then GG. Offering BS deals where you end up doing another 2x waves because your pissed, giving you a total 4x waves to our 1x, isnt diplo its a joke. If you want to gather allies and multi hostile us go for it, still more fun then sitting idle. After all your BS we would still give you a war if you would take anything even close to even. But if diplo BS and multi hostiles is more fun for you then a war go for it. All we ever tried to get out of talking with you was a war bc idling at 4/4 when no one willing to war us is killing the interest in the game for most of our kd. It was a waste of time though bc rather than any kind of war we just get diplo BS from you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
So you are willing to let Divinity take back the acres u took and massacre your t/ms back (same amount of massacres as you did) then war after both kds get some (equal) time to prep?
shai im not able to offer any terms, but I know the mood of the kd. We would be willing to war dicks on evenish terms. So far we havnt taken as much from them as they already took from us, but that is besides the point. I think if we evened out the land both kds would be like 93k acres or so, which makes more sense to me then my kd demanding we get back all they took from us or them demanding back all we took from them. If we can end on near even acres and war then great, that is when UTO is fun. Massacres? IDK, they deserve the massacres for what they pulled on us. But considering we will do almost anything for a war I'd guess wed be willing to take a few massacres. 2x massacres on us plus they get to be 7k acres bigger and pump as much as they want is a joke offer though.
Your prior cf was just a plain cf with no terms. So how is that a dick move on you? Your monarch failed in doing a proper deal of which they came and hit you.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
Breaking a blank cf is not a deal break! but breaking an eowcf is!!
We had a blank cf put in place so kds could both negotiate in good faith, they broke it and waved. They took a blank cf after waving us because the deal for EOA CF expired. If we supposedly have to write big diplo contracts to be able to war deal with out getting a cf broken and waved then they have to renegotiate for EOA CF if they take a CF after the deal offered expired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Your deal offer had nowhere written that if not cfed on 7th then deal doesnt exist!Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
Wrong, the deal specifically said NO LATER THAN 7th. When asked about accepting on 8th they were told no, but did it any way and never followed up with more diplo for new terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
"2. CF will be offered now, and only accepted after the full wave is done and no later than 7th (be it final minute of the 7th)."
We didnt put "NO LATER" in the deal because we meant "accept this deal after the 7th and every thing is cool". We put in "NO LATER" because (obviously giving the wording) the deal was not valid if the CF was taken after the 7th.
Judge, why is it so hard for you to understand...
simply this is just like when you passed your paper to your teacher 1 minute late of the deadline and your teacher still accepted it but it means it has already deductions etc since its late. does your teacher say to you "oh this is late, -50%"? no, it is automatic, student should know already.Quote:
Originally Posted by p0ngkol
we negotiated in good faith, you guys came to the conclusion that on EQUAL acres you guys would not war us....you simply wouldnt/couldnt fight us. Our wave into you was done for minimal damage as a show of "dont offer us a fake war" because we dont want do deal with people like that. We would have waved you for 5 weeks if thats what it took to get a cf with you because we detest cheating and overall just dont like the mannor in which you guys have been playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
If your kd is going to play games when we made an eoa cf in good faith with realistic terms then these types of things are the response...espically when we continue to offer "reasonable" alternatives to a gb and are told..."no you should give us 15k honor since we attacked you"
if your going to play games we can all do that thing is emeriti/ CR / the U have so far all agreed that what u did was a CLEAR deal break. If all u wanna do is argue you' wright there fine, go for it...theres no point in me argueing the actual words said.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
The intent and implication u guys gave was for us to read it as a full eoacf even though u planed to break it. Thing is even AFTER all this for your deceitful attempts at a cf and the 5+ hours i had to talk to top kds and make my ally in emeriti negotiate with all other top kds so they could help i STILL offered many resonable things. The simplest of being eat as much damage to each of your t/ms as we took, drop down to our pre wave sizes...and we can war each other....it can even be your instant declare, with your setup that favors instant declares just both sides take a few days to get hits/sizes/re-pumped. The most obscure offering be "give us something equal in value to my first suggstion. What isn't acceptable is they way you played, to demand 15k honor, then 10k honor then 10k land, then well lets just cf" Sorry no, you screwed up take a small beating.
Its not like i said you can go above 80k honor or fight another war this age....or said u have self pk 4 people. At worst my offer was setting you up to be farmed. Don't like it fine maybe its a bit much, but a war on 96.5 v 91.5-ISH(you could grow a little) was literally offered to you <24 hours before u waved us if we could do 1 full fort stance and having a 3% land advantage is hardly enough to make things insanely 1-sided give our setups and instant declare offer.
So a much larger KD at the time waves a smaller kd... Sends them a dragon. The little kd says no let's work something out, cf before the 7th and we can wait it out? Big kd hits till the 8th. Cf accepted. Little kd retaliates to hit back the damage they wrongfully recived in the first place, no dragon, one wave? Man the white knights are lacking in this game now a days huh?
This will teach the smaller KD's to stand up for themseleves. Good job big KDs out there. New people if you are reading this. Look forward to this for your whole playtime =)
Have fun
Aces
we were 8 or 9% larger...waved because they were trying to cheat, actually break the game rules. Is told waving stop when a cf is up and says any cf is eoa, gets cf. Sure again spin it however you want but if the cheaters are being honest they wouldnt be facing whats going on now. Remember this NOT is the first time war kds have had issues; Strippers, Stoners both got beat to **** and disbanded because war kds and top kds didnt like how they played. Be open/honest and reasonable and there are no worries.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces
See. There it is. "War kd and top kd's" they will push you out all the little kds. They are all allied together and fine sitting atop thier throne. Bullying small kds is what they are good at. New people beware. When there is noone left to play because they gb everyone out of the game there will only be growth kds. No more wars
you do realize any kd basically oustide the top 10 and bottom 15 or so are war kds. the #9 kd in the game is hardly "little kds".Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces
Just saying I've seen this before. The top 4 or 5 ban together if they see anyone as a threat and try to get them to disban. It has happened and always will happen. It's happening now. Thats why this game is not going anywhere. But you can see it how you want to. You admitted you would get top kds to take out anyone that they didn't see fit in how they played the game.
Your words not mine
Btw. My opinon on the game isn't a new one. And this thread just proves it. It is obvious the big kd is trying to spin this "deal break" into thier favor so the community backs them and they can justifiably whipe out the smaller kd which poses a threat to thier throne. Good for the smaller kd. I back them 100%
Nope.
If ya ask anyone in the war tier, Divinity are pretty straight up and Spartans...well they ain't. =)
You are projecting your own bias.
You cant unilaterally decide that any cf is eoa cf no matter if you meet our conditions or not. We offered a deal and you didn't meat the terms, if you wanted a different terms you needed to get our consent.Quote:
Originally Posted by Persain
If offering to min time WD to get a kd to war us is against the rules you could have just said no and told us that it was against the game rules (although i still havnt found that in the rules). The learning curve for this game is high, and if your response to anything you dont like is to break cf and wave then dont expect your kd to be treated any differently. If you want open honest deals then prove it. Instead of taking our attempt at getting a kd to war us (after being turned down by 15 or so kds) and using it as an excuse to farm wave a kd in pump build why not offer us a real war deal? open/honest and reasonable, we both have waved each other (you more so on us) but there is still time for a war on even ground. Last time since you chose to break cf and wave us im guessing that your not really interested in war and rather would just get your buddies to GB us down because you failed to diplo properly and left diplo open after waving us. An even war would be more fun for us (and for you I assume unless you only enjoy griefing smaller kds) but getting GB down isnt a big deal either. A war could give this situation some resolution though, where as GBing will just make the feud go deeper.
Quote:
Originally Posted by makeo
Lol. War tier. The ones that cry when an enemy is thier size but is 100% ready to hit a kd 10% lower than them and in a pump build. I'm glad im not in that circle of "elite players".
#occupy
yea its kinda like teachers getting together and expelling kds who brings a gun into school. those terrible teachers how will murders get an education. Seriously though there an etiquette to the game. If you screw up a few times no biggy, goodness knows people can be forgiving. If you actively say...well i dont care then be prepared either play where that works or well threads like these explode and friends get called in. Thing is its more than just the top..i know kds as small as 25K acres right now who actively get help without needing to 2v1 or gb someone. i also know kds that have 3-4 people that try to GB->ragequit other kds of 3-4 people. its a war based strategy game, make friends, fight enemies, quit if you cant handle all the people that hate you. Not like heaven/bart really cares hes already claimed "i wont be playing next age" before this whole thing started our actions gota b limited to this ageQuote:
Originally Posted by Aces
we did...we said no by waving you because bart has been playing 2+ years and knows this is against the rules. in addtional AFTER we taged, AND wave AND told your kd that what u offered was cheating you guys still offered the same deal to other kds, perhaps our point wasnt made? Then again its hard to say we didnt want a real war we had a STANDING OFFER to war you with hostiles can start on date XYZ button pushed as needed. Standing offer lasted right up till the fake war offer.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans
And to further prove the theory. Look at dicks war size. It's strange that it probably will never be 100%. Spartants on the other hand are 100%? Hmm which is more honorable?
You are the teachers of the game, the leaders. Please teach us weak minded students not to stand up for ourselves.
#occupy
You're a noob. Stop talking now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces
I can guarantee I'll press any vaguely reasonable button given, not qq and ain't elite. =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces
Of course, I may not press it immediately and I do actually reserve the right to wave people smaller.than me because they have **** I want if I think it's in my best interest.
Others are welcome to do the same. =] it ain't a complex game at my level.
That said we are getting off topic: The topic being, that in my opinion, Divinity are pretty straight up, and I don't see an issue with what they said or how they conducted themselves.
Now resorting to bashing and harassment. Classy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty87
When someone tries to justify a deal break with no solid information they should just stay out of it and let the people who were in discussions do them. If you have logs that show the discussion, post them. As persain has.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces
If not leave it to your leaders who had the discussions. Anything you say will not persuade anyone of anything, the way it's going you're just making it worst. You have no information or anything of relevance to add except "now the bullies will gb"
And according to them force out and make a long standing kd disban because of the hazzy deal in the first place? Alright. Guess I am the noob. Btw it's just a game, text based at that. And you being verbally insulting and trying to control what I said when this thread wasnt even made to discuss a possible deal break is a lousy thing to do. Please refrain from being a jerk and let me post what I want to post especially when this topic isnt relevant to the thread yet mine Is a little bit.. Thanks buddyQuote:
Originally Posted by Smitty87
Aces
"Game Date May 4 of YR9
Real Date Mon, 9 Nov at 20:05 GMT+00:00
Sender King Dirty Killer the Rogue of Moaning Murderer (Spartans)
Recipient Duke RIP the Sorcerer of Dick Trickle (Divinity)
Subject Re:Hey
Yeap, and not by me. I've been more than reasonable giving you a free CF when you were vulnerable post-EOW CF. Then to shame that trust by jumping us while we had no gc and had to switch like 70-80% of our build to war was just a cowardly action."
So.. spartans, if giving a kd 92% your size the button after they just offered you a fake war is a "cowardly action" because they didn't have gc or war builds in, what do you call breaking an EoA CF, waving a kd 92% your size, in pump build, ect?
This isnt an official diplo talk thread, its not limited to leaders only. If Aces feels bullied by the top bc our war offer got us waved and our retal gets us threatened with GB raze then it aint hurting any one for him to post it.
Really what it comes down to is two kds failed to achieve the ridiculous diplo standards for a legitimate contract, both kds relied on good faith and both kds got waved. Now if dicks wants to move forward and war on even acres (we'd prob even let you throw in some massacres for good measure) and get that "real" war then fine, no wd agreements no tms or ops off limits we just go at each other. you want a couple days to pump, fine. you want a week to pump, fine. we dont really care as long as we get another war before EOA. This is way more then yall gave us after waving us 2x, but the one thing we like more then revenge is war so we will still deal. (even acres with yall getting time to pump is an official offer btw)
or if you want to GB on the flimsy pretense that you can unilaterally decide we agreed to an EOA CF with different conditions then what we offered... go for it. We will go down swinging and have 100x more fun doing it then if we just sat in the top 10 idling till eoa.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zaza945
there was never an eoa cf, once again the limit on that offer was till the end of 7th. Breaking a blank cf to wave them at their size and in pump build is exactly like what they did to us (except we are still behind them by one wave- they did two full waves and we have only done one so far), that is the whole point.
I'd never go to shake some ones hand and kick them in the nuts instead... unless they did it to me first.
We've talked to many kds/leaders, they all agree, you guys deal broke. You are either delusional, slow, or lying if you really think what you did wasn't a deal break.Quote:
Originally Posted by beans