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Congrats on the win, by performance in war you deserve it and by circumstances that lead up to the conflict itself you dont deserve it. Wish the war could of played out in a different kind of way with both kds in full prep. It takes bit of fun out of it and the win is not near as tasty as it could of been for you but that is your call entirely.
There's no good reason to give an inch to a kingdom that has never given one in turn.
Energy was low to begin with going into the hostile, and never really improved much. There were mistakes made and we had 8 provinces on sitting almost the whole hostile, which just drained people that much more.
Personally: I think we should have trained our offense 6 hours later than we did, so that we weren't full army at the start of notice, but we still would have been able to snipe offenses when their first wave returned. The plan was always to eat the first wave and then snipe offenses, so I think being fully trained and then sitting home was a mistake. We also learned that bouncing is fail when you can just break and get better kills. We were too worried about keeping the meter, but we were sending such big % bounces, so we gave a lot of points anyway. Would have been better to just break instead. There was also a drastic rune shortage, which prevented us from doing pretty much any offensive spells. And because of that, we couldn't slow their top avians down at all.
People wanted to bounce the banks during hostile instead of snipe offenses, but I'm not yet convinced that would have been better. Those big dwarves weren't much of an issue in hostile, and for 75% of the war they had no econ and weren't the biggest threat either. They did pitch in a lot toward dragon killing (I think) which was big to help swing troop counts back into their favor.
As always, I try to learn from my mistakes and come back better. That being said, I think our hostile+war plan was pretty solid, but we failed to execute it properly. There are things that should have been different, but that was mostly execution.
I dont know about any of that, i never was here to know about any such things taking place and most of this KD is new.Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev
But sure, i can see it that way if it did happen as you say it did. The scenarios just cant be compared to each other and that is a problem.
Octobrev ideology > Anri was expected kinda ..if you are all about the crowns, no trouble.
As blocksies and pincers come more natural .
And it being ...hmm. .questionable.
That said, looks a pretty ****ty war performance from Panda/non Panda tbh.
Not enough activity and depended on position rather than fighting. Imo.
Paper /intel looks **** on your side in trying to pull some moves by the highest standards.
(And by highest, I mean an active me with nubs in range would lose horrifically but not think you were amazing. ;) )
Thanks to Pandas for a good conflict. I hope we can now finally draw a line under what happened this and last age and start from a clean sheet.
That is funny considering all that happen, how are the scenarios even remotely comparable? Clean sheet just like that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Its not up to me to decide anyway, just saying.
Puppeteers cashed in, cheating paid off.
Sad times.
and the hate continues...
Well it's true we have more to complain about than you guys, so I'd have to convince the Spartans if they're willing to call it quits. All I'm saying was that even though you guys misled us and hit our banks and constantly accused us of something we had nothing to do with, the good war probably made good on that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
If you had problems with morale and couldn't keep your ppl together and engaged you weren't going to win a crown at all.
Too many sour people in this forum on Spartan Win. Looks fair to me. 3 days preparation after notice and Panda was bigger when the war starts. Based on updates, it looks like activity play a big part on this war. Spartans were more active than Panda. And Panda's strat didnt work well.
Well considering none of our provs was prepared properly that is BS. We lacked overall army and gc.
I agree Osaze. This highlighted weaknesses we had in the core, as well as in LS. Hesus and Vir are awesome, but with RL requirements they couldn't do it by themselves, and I don't think the rest of us in LS have enough experience leading this type of conflict to fill the gap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osaze
We needed either a perfectly solid core, or a LS able to micromanage all war, and currently we have neither. There's plenty of awesome core players here, we just need to fill the gaps we've discovered.
I was on standby if the call came in. While being 0-3 vs Sparta ain't a selling point for me, I always look forward to breaking the streak. - Just for the war, then I'd slide back down into the abyss. No crown aspirations for me, just want to see Sparta at their best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Congratulations Sparta. Keep your chin up 42.
Yes Anri, thats possible that you're not ready and thats your kingdom fault. You have 3 days to prepare after notice. You even came from a win with a lots of credit to be use during eowcf.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Every age, I can see kingdoms used that as an excuse why they loss in a battle. Thats BS
Because Poopsie can take a chained prov and grow it in eowcf, fix its wpa, train to 1 ppa and stock gc and fix its TB all in 5 days. You are right, we should have done better and been 100% prepared, because that was possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopsie
Also the dealbreak on us we should have expected it and we should have been ready after so many days of warring, because Poopsie would have been ready am i right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Take me and I show you how :)
*yawn*
Octobrev knows how to pincer and whether this was a casual vulture giving no ****s or something he arranged is irrelevant. (Or the extent to which Bart has learnt under his tree and others)
I don't care as it's interesting to see the book handed down , but let's not lie that this was a fair one despite the disappointing 42 performance.
There are obvious dark arts happening here. =]
Edit:
And those arts have always been part of the game. :)
My only opinion is that 42/non Pandas were a bit disappointing this war. The rest is utopia play.
hmm. Poopsie = BoH?
I think if you sit in war for 10 days and have to go b2b, many would have problems keeping moral up. I was glad I didn't have to prepare a (close to) b2b after 5-6 days hostile/war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osaze
You are right Makeo, we played in a poor way overall, but it seems a few people pretty much gave up after the DB on us. Some players only play to crown and when the chance of crowning gets more and more limited the interest goes out the window.
I thought you guys did really well. All s***talk aside, I really hope you guys pull it together. We need more at the top, not less.Quote:
Originally Posted by CannaWhoopazz
You realize that every war crown hopeful does this time after time? The majority of utopian players deal with this over and over. Some can keep up, others can't. The ones that crown generally can. The top usually is immune to most of this because of cf agreements and can plan out wars in longer time frames. Ask any of the top war tier, they can tell you that it is not only possible to prep like this, but that they enjoy it some times.Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
If the kingdom that sits OOW for a long time, built with GC stocks, prepares properly, it's extremely difficult for someone coming out of war to be ready enough. I wouldn't call it an excuse if it just gets proven over and over again that it's though to beat someone sitting OOW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopsie
Lets say a war ends. You're in (mostly) warbuild except for the incoming land + possible bonus land. It takes 12hours with BB to build. Most provinces will be on a rather low amount of peasants.
Switching to a partial/full econ build and reaching max pop will take roughly 24-36 hours depending on province & how much you micro aiding.
You've got tiny provinces that need to explore with 5*cost in war. Aiding them costs resources and you want to do it ASAP. And you have to, because the next fight is waiting.
So after 36 hours your entire kingdom is max pop/build and has income. So you have about 108 hours left to stock gc AND draft soldiers.
Our of war starting from scratch and geting 6 days preptime seems reasonable, but coming out of war and needing 36h just to maxpop/build, you've got 4,5 days left and it isn't so much anymore.
I think it would require about 8-10 days time to have a fairly equal preparation compared to an OOW kingdom.
They went into hostile with more gc, more land, more troops, very close t/m capability. Tell me again their disadvantage?
.
Also they had a ton of credits from war win to work with. Thats a big bonus to prep
Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Science is a big factor last time..Not now. Its all basic strategy and planning
By the time they finished their war gc stocks in Sparta were very low bar banks. We had to force-grow the entire way to keep up with Pandas. They were 62K when conflict with Jesters started, we were 48K. So in the same timespan we had to grow 34K acres and they 20K. We also from the forum arguments expected Jesters to drag to 50% so we hadn't really started stacking yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
I dont think the db was right Anri. But I do agree some of your peeps didn't have your spirit to come out and say "**** you, I'll war you anyway " and haven't performed. Sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Better luck next time and in your quest to instill that grit. = )
No one cares. It was a vulture.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
Simple as.
Agree the Panda performance was disappointing though.
Edit: And that's the game. *shrug *
Pandas didn't have the mental fortitude to shrug the db off. You took the acres whether it was a vulture or something that your dark arts arranged. That's the game. :)
No hate here on the play fella.
So everyone the server agrees to 72-hour notifications yet when someone notices it's called vulturing? Perhaps we should make longer notice deals then? I didn't ask for 72 hours lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by makeo
lol @ people claiming this was vulturing. None of you probably never experinced actual vulture if you think so. :)
They actually were 200k troops up on us when hostile started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Osaze
Hostile/war was good. Im very impressed with 42's strat and execution. Sure some things could have been better, but that is true of both sides. All in all it was a close war with some very inspired moments and some big mistakes from both kds. The large land difference near the end was a snowballing effect of minor advantages being leveraged, not a one sided conflict.
Did sparta vulture 42? No I guess? Yes I guess? I mean the way top cfs are set up you cant really vulture. CF was 3 day notice after they exit eowcf. 42 was in the drivers seat and dictated the terms of the CF, they could have put across a cf with a 5 day notice. Sure call starting hostile with a kd 3 days after they exit eowcf a vulture, but its rather silly especially when you consider the quality of 42's pump.
MY thoughts:
Both kds played hostile wrong imo. Sparta razing with provs that were in nw range for trads left us exposed on little acres. 42 bouncing let us slide by with no incoming acres, razes would have hurt far more and since we were not bouncing they had the meter to do it. Declare timing could have been better, either declaring after sparta's last wave into your fort when we had no incoming or dragging the hostile longer. Major fux up on sparta side in hostile was leaving armies home after our first wave instead of in and out, 42 jumped on that and it hurt. Not sure what happened there besides LS confusion.
After declare- sparta stumbled a little on getting nw zones set up. We lost more high nw attackers than we should have. 42 never really got nw zones going, not sure how feasible it would have been for them to do so though. 42 massacres on tms instead of trying to bounce down banks was probably the wise choice, however the massacres were very spread out and it took many uniques for them to have a significant effect. Concentrated massacres on 1 tm at a time would have been more effective imo.
Both kds needed to do more sci flipping, looked like a lot of people on both sides were keeping their alch professors. In anything except a farm war running 30% alch is not as strong as having a mobile 15 sci that you can flip into any category you need at will. enough to almost reach half the cap of any category, a real game changer. Considering you only lose 15% of your alch sci this way, and you get back half of that in 3 days and all of it in 7 days its gg.
All in all a great war. GGs for all!
Bart. The chances of me discussing this with you is zero.
As you , as well as I , know it wasn't about the 72h notice.
So go find someone in your uni to discuss ethics or sumfin'.
The people who get the point, understand. They also don't give two ****s about your attempts at pr. :)
Love ya, but don't expect me to indulge your world view.
Korp. We've all played under the 24h break and been hammered so you're just being silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
The idea it wasn't a vulture just because people got vultured harder in the past is retarded and you should feel embarrassed about your attempts to be elitist.
Now derail elsewhere please?
All I'm hearing from you is that you believe something that you can't prove so your feelings are hurt because of it. We aren't attacking you personally, but because you have no proof to put forward to sway people to your way of thinking you are resorting to personal attacks.Quote:
Originally Posted by makeo
I think most top wars require more than a drawn out war in the war tier. Can't really compare them. And I played in a war kd for a while. Ghetto wars don't even count. I had my share and they were piss easy compared to anything elseQuote:
Originally Posted by Osaze
Afaik Sparta had a 200k troop lead. Spec creds hardly matter either, you want elites. The time frame is simply too short to and stock gc needed and draft enough. I assume Panda went for enough gc but lacked soldiersQuote:
Originally Posted by Osaze
Science wouldn't be the decisive factor in this fight I think. Gc/soldiers would.Quote:
Originally Posted by Poopsie
Yea but isn't it so that you gotta make a choice: stock gc for as lng as possible and hope for slow play, or draft lots and lack gc?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta