Age 71 Proposed Changes Suggestions

Id have to add "if your eowcf reduction" even would happen, I would have to argue that half food might just starve players after the cf and get the double (normal) food gets reinstated.
Would "we" know how to adjust to the new KD stance (essentially "war" and "eowcf" are over-riding KD stances), yes, but a "new player" might not.
And I think the new owners are trying to make utopia more user friendly for a new/newer player base.

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Originally Posted by Minty

Why is it that Warrior must be the only personality with no unique spell whatsoever?

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warriors are too dumb to cast spells

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Originally Posted by BoBDuDe

Id have to add "if your eowcf reduction" even would happen, I would have to argue that half food might just starve players after the cf and get the double (normal) food gets reinstated.
Would "we" know how to adjust to the new KD stance (essentially "war" and "eowcf" are over-riding KD stances), yes, but a "new player" might not.
And I think the new owners are trying to make utopia more user friendly for a new/newer player base.

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lol, my bad, i meant half required food, or double food production

Final changes posted

http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...3#post15420573

is the change in WH for real? or type-o?

they lost the elite conversion?

Yes I agree that a double food would be a better function.

BUT, I think this could all be avoided/counteracted by a Trade Balance adjusted for chained province.
At end of war, I think EVERYONE should have thier TB adjusted (Actual accumulated balance) based upon KD average acres (Net might skew too low after war)

Wiki says:

Aid to needy provinces is sometimes exempt from taxation. If the receiving province has been hurt significantly in recent days, aid may face a reduced tax rate (down to a minimum of 15%). This aid still accumulates in the Trade Balance of both parties. Also, if the province is below the average networth of the Kingdom, then the tax rate is calculated on the average kingdom province networth.

I think that TB (% taxed) adjusted by KD Average Net should be impleneted OUTSIDE of war.
After a war (end of war cease fire) TB (Actual accumulated balance)should be adjusted to according to KD Average Acres.

Yes this also means that those higher than the average will accrue a negative TB.
I think that this would encourage the bigger provs to aid the smaller provs.

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Originally Posted by weedub

is the change in WH for real? or type-o?

they lost the elite conversion?

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Yes they lost it. Ud war hero would be been unreal if they kept it.

Elf needed +3 def spec bad or 7/8 elite. Will be hard pressed this age. I like all the changes tho good job!

All I could say the new dev team does have something in them. From the previous two dev team it keeps giving me the feeling that they are a group of pro-faery type. This finalize changes keep giving me some head shake. It is so hard to decide since every of them looks very well balanced. I don't think they really pro any races. One thing for sure they do read and take it seriously from all the feedback mentioned here. Many feedback have been taken into account in the finalize changes.

Since every race has a serious weakness, it makes it so hard to make a decision. I am pretty sure many kds are having difficult time in picking their races at this moment too. Well I can't wait for next age to start, I am sure many other kds will have find their unique kd formation to play on the next age, and I will be having a lot to learn from :)

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Originally Posted by weedub

is the change in WH for real? or type-o?

they lost the elite conversion?

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Typo, WH still has conversion.

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Originally Posted by Kido

Look, i have no idea how Utopia was built, or how the mechanisms like Prov control and army units/control/gens have been put together, as well as whether units/gens can be aided for a limited time. But i'd like to point out that the overhaul of the science system took a couple to a ages to complete, and is still not optimised.

Like i'd probably play Utopia whether all those changes we're implemented or not, because i enjoy the forced intense teamwork of the game - and to me, chaining and getting chained is a big part of it. TBH, Clash and all those games doesn't hold my interest at all because of pretty much all the reasons you said, and a big plus on the forced teamwork of a Kingdom at war in Utopia. Clash feels, honestly pretty lonely, IMO. If i was going to do anything to grow the community, i would probably contact gaming community groups like TAW, or AJSA, or WG.. etc, to advertise Uto as a side game, especially for their management teams who might not have time to play video games. Being that i was involved with TAW for a bit, i think i saw at least that they bounced the idea around for a bit.

As far as your complaints about war. It is true you get wrecked in war. Which is why in my kingdom the focus is on rebuilding. But perhaps the EOWCF could have some extra bonuses, like half price accelerated building, half wages and half food - however, that all may be linked to war itself and difficult to change.

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My opinion is, we cannot depend on old players to keep utopia going. New blood must be joining and beside, what I suggest is something higher. I hope utopia someday will become a business rather than a free game. Of course I do not hope I will be needing to pay to join, but selling stuffs in the process will be enough for the revenue.

I am not afraid of being chained in wars, but unfortunately to say I do not belong or represent the majority type of players. Majority of the players cannot accept to drop from 2k to 300 in less than 12h. Do you want to know why?

Because minority players view from the perspective of an entire kd's. Majority players view from the perspective of their own prov. Do you want Utopia to be a game of minority or majority? If you know your answer, your choice would be easy to decide.

To attract the majority player, we must study how they think and what they prefer. Judge from my experience when I was in the game, all I could see the biggest problem is the players is unwilling to withstand chain. We can be almighty as we want, praise ourselves, our kds, our alliances, that we are the rambos that do not scare on chain, but it does not make a point, because the first step that is needed to focus is, we need more players to join the game.

Make changes to the game would not be an easy task. But by a step and a step, keep on improving on the game and I am sure one day we will reach the destination sooner or later.

The science system is all about the layout of the design, and an option to add in "stop incoming scientist" should be included. Once the design of input is improved, it should not be a big problem. It is not the concept I am against, it is the layout of the page.

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Originally Posted by OldPlayerback

Chain only serve one purpose, to force an overpop to reduce one person offense and significantly lower his nw so he will be out of the range to harm the top range nw prov. Therefore every single wars every kds must chain. I chain and you do not chain, I guarantee you will lose the war.

Utopia itself has many features lying around, which they can be used, added, or improved. We take example from real wars in real life. Resources can be a factor to win a war. Food can be a factor to win a war. Science can be a factor to win a war. It depends how you see it, and thus all these old features lying around could be changed and added into the warring system and no kds will ever need to chain-to-win.

Warring between a kd and another kd, along with 25 provs within them, a kd's monarch is taking the troops from every provs to fight a war with another kd and vice versa. Resources, troops and every prov should be able to control and use more freely in a war. And because utopia do not have a battlefield to allocate or position the troops, it is only through text and numbers we fight a war.

From the current war system now, because aiding and support is very limited to each prov in a kd, that is why hence chaining is very effective. But this isnt logical. By right the troops and all the resources of all 25 provs in a same kd should be able to allocated more freely among each others. Not just allocation, but there should be more options to fight the war. We have off spec, elites, def spec, mana, stealth, resources such as gc, food, and runes. All these features when there is a way to participate in the warring system, players will find a way to use it to create their own strategy, and chaining will eventually disappear from the history of utopia.

War becomes unpredictable. From the current warring system, there are only a few factors needed to be know before war and we would mostly know which party will gain the upper hand. Which kd has more offense? How many UB tms? Are their size stay average to each others? The rest is looking at their activity in war and we would usually know after 48h of the war going.

Warring in utopia takes too fast and too intense. Because provs cant really communicate and support each other in a same kd in war, that is why a focus chain on a particular one wins the war. It is just as simple as it looks like. Activity has been always emphasized in war, that every players must login to play the war or else the kd will lose the war. Army in army out. Tm login at specific time to help to op for the attackers. Duration spell, tried not to miss a single spell and keep them 24/7. Therefore mistakes cannot be afford to take place. Activity must be maintained high. Any side that has a lower activity or make a mistake is just 24h, the entire war outcome will be significantly different. KDs chain each other to the oblivion and by the 72h after a war is declared, you could usually see half of the kd's attackers becomes 300-500 acres.

After playing for 10 years, you wont feel there is something wrong with utopia. Because all of us already familiar with it. But when you actually stop down and look on it carefully, you know it is wrong. Such a extreme requirement for activity to play a game and in order to win it, we must put in a lot of effort and most of the time, it affects the real life of serious gamers to play utopia. Discipline in a kd must be extremely high. Everyone must follow the orders or else a slightly ran off of actions will result in a weak team work. It feels like we are soldiers in an army but not playing a game. That is why warring in utopia cannot last long. It is too tiresom. After each war the players need not only a rebuilding but a rest. It is time for us to put a stop to this warring mechanism.

Warring should be a bit more relax. After all, this is a game, a game is suppose to be fun. Give players that kind of advantage that when i play a war in utopia i wont feel tire, rushing time, or i need to discipline myself so much to play a war. Why a war must be ended in a weeks time? We can play it for a month. Take it slow. Enjoy the war and keep on participating each day.

There are a lot of the existing features that can be used for. Example resources, gc, food and runes. How would you apply gc to fight a kd's war except only for funding a dragon? Use the imagination. The influence of food only matters to the scale of a single prov. Take this influence to the scale of a entire kd. How exactly can we apply resources to fight the war.

What else we have? Yes I miss out one thing, even 4 Generals of each provs can be applied in wars. Let's say I have 4 generals and i occupied all offense in one hit. I used 2 generals in this attack, i have no more offense left. I can lend my generals for your prov to fight. So instead of making 4 hits, you can make 6 hits with the offense you got.

Do anyone of you seeing what I am proposing all the time? What is the direction I am heading? Unpredictable wars. We know every provs now only have 4 generals to apply. Now when in war, a kd's prov can lend their generals to the other prov. A prov can hence make more hits that it is expected. One prov can makes one hit, while another may make 8 hits. How can the war be predicted? The allocation of troops, generals, aiding and support can be done within their own kd. It is unpredictable.

Then what else we left? Mana and stealth. If mana can be used to create Fireballs to kill the peasants, can mana be used to slay a dragon? By logic it should be. Can it be use to create a Behemoth? Yes it should be.

There are a lot of imagination can be applied in the field of mana and stealth. Since long ago I have suggested, please create more spells and more ops options in the war to be applied from. Spells that works in the scale as the kd wise, not just prov wise. Mages in a kd can apply their mana to create a Big Fireball for example, and release them to the opponent for a certain effect and a result, for example lets say, 24h no drafting of soldiers is allowed for that entire kd. This is kd-wise spell and ops. Extend the war mechanism that players no long needs to chain one prov to 300 or 200 acres. It is really boring. You have so many features lying around, with just a little bit of brain storming and thinking you can create a fun war full of them. Why keep on chaining? Why everyone need to login to the level of discipline that we must do army in army out? This is a game, not a job man.

When the options of to war increases, there will definitely be fun. Having more options doesnt mean we can use them all in one single war. But we can choose to apply some with the limited resource or uniques we have, such as attack time.

However, creating more spells or ops doesnt mean the same as creating more different troops in utopia. Taking example we have now only units of off spec, elites and def spec. Probably different units of bomber, rangers, trap users can be added, but in this area i would say to proceed with extreme care.

Why would i say so? Utopia is a unique game of races and personalities. It is not the units that is fun. Yes we can add in more different units but you will directly influence the unique of utopia or change the game into another game instead. Maintain the unique of utopia is important, when messing around units types, extreme care should be hold because games that has a huge variety of units type are actually belongs to another genre. If you step over im afraid the look of utopia will change into something we do not recognize.

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read all your posts. and agree. so much opportunities to make the game more flexible and engaging.

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Originally Posted by OldPlayerback

My opinion is, we cannot depend on old players to keep utopia going. New blood must be joining and beside, what I suggest is something higher. I hope utopia someday will become a business rather than a free game. Of course I do not hope I will be needing to pay to join, but selling stuffs in the process will be enough for the revenue.

I am not afraid of being chained in wars, but unfortunately to say I do not belong or represent the majority type of players. Majority of the players cannot accept to drop from 2k to 300 in less than 12h. Do you want to know why?

Because minority players view from the perspective of an entire kd's. Majority players view from the perspective of their own prov. Do you want Utopia to be a game of minority or majority? If you know your answer, your choice would be easy to decide.

To attract the majority player, we must study how they think and what they prefer. Judge from my experience when I was in the game, all I could see the biggest problem is the players is unwilling to withstand chain. We can be almighty as we want, praise ourselves, our kds, our alliances, that we are the rambos that do not scare on chain, but it does not make a point, because the first step that is needed to focus is, we need more players to join the game.

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I've only skimmed your posts, but what I've read I strongly disagree with. Utopia is in essence a PvP game. You and your kingdom vs every other kingdom in the world. War should be violent. It should hurt when you lose. Chains should happen and if people don't know how to survive then they learn. In war you are forcing another kingdom to surrender because they are either tired of warring you or accept your kingdom is better. If provinces aren't pushed to pain points, why would they choose to quit fighting? Risk of your province collapsing and starting over is a tangible effect. The more provinces pushed to that point the closer a kingdom is to winning the war.

Can you show me your survey results that prove the majority of the players only care about their province?

I can just as easily say the opposite. Your opinions aren't facts.

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Originally Posted by Glimi

I've only skimmed your posts, but what I've read I strongly disagree with. Utopia is in essence a PvP game. You and your kingdom vs every other kingdom in the world. War should be violent. It should hurt when you lose. Chains should happen and if people don't know how to survive then they learn. In war you are forcing another kingdom to surrender because they are either tired of warring you or accept your kingdom is better. If provinces aren't pushed to pain points, why would they choose to quit fighting? Risk of your province collapsing and starting over is a tangible effect. The more provinces pushed to that point the closer a kingdom is to winning the war.

Can you show me your survey results that prove the majority of the players only care about their province?

I can just as easily say the opposite. Your opinions aren't facts.

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It can be easily done. Leave your current kd and join a random one and venture around the kds in utopia by your own. You wont be able to see the outside world if you keep staying at your old kd for ages.

The answer for your question is outgrow.

You believe chaining provs to pieces on the ground is the key to win the war. I believe having multiple outgrows that becomes a UB win the war too. When kds can no longer chain effectively on each kds, naturally outgrows will happen.

I am an old player, and I can subject to changes, that makes me a bit different than you guys. You guys are unable to accept changes once you get to know the game. A little bit suggestion of changes and there goes heavy decline and objections, without even going through the proper procedure of discussion, that proves it can't.

The question is not to focus that my suggestion is not suitable. It is to prove that my ideas will not work. The same can I request from you, how can you prove my suggestions will not make utopia great again?

Most of his suggestions are nonsense cause he doesn't understand the mechanics well enough.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

Most of his suggestions are nonsense cause he doesn't understand the mechanics well enough.

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Criticism is only worth to read when it comes along with constructive points, best follow up with solutions. I have quit whining a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by OldPlayerback

I am an old player, and I can subject to changes, that makes me a bit different than you guys. You guys are unable to accept changes once you get to know the game. A little bit suggestion of changes and there goes heavy decline and objections, without even going through the proper procedure of discussion, that proves it can't.

The question is not to focus that my suggestion is not suitable. It is to prove that my ideas will not work. The same can I request from you, how can you prove my suggestions will not make utopia great again?

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Suggestions are not the same as the doom and gloom you are trying to preach. You think we aren't getting new players because of mechanics....I think it's because of lack of effort. Zynga made millions from facebook games....I think Utopia would benefit from that integration as well...even without mechanic changes.

Is there diminishing returns on sci or you change it with: Approximately +50% Scientists will be required to reach maximum effects.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Typo, WH still has conversion.

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haha good

it killed alot of ideas if it was real.

just saw it lost the proposed
"Increase honor gains by generating honor in all land attacks (in or out of war)"

as well.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

Typo, WH still has conversion.

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does it stack with undead?

"The age of halflings"

Can anything even counter a halfer besides a halfer....

So these final changes are the last ones?

I dont really care what the changes are, we all need to adapt.

But after first final changes we put in some time discussing what setup, total waste of our time now it seems. No disrespect, but be very clear in what you are putting up. I am happy to help with that from now on if you want input.


To clarify: Elfs have -35% Military Casualties
So now, they can attack with -35% losses?

It is common practise to have proposed changes and then final changes and release them one after the other ... yes i read the Elf ability as -35% losses for attacks suffered and attacks made...

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Originally Posted by Pyrr

But after first final changes we put in some time discussing what setup, total waste of our time now it seems. No disrespect, but be very clear in what you are putting up. I am happy to help with that from now on if you want input.

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How was this any different than all previous ages?

Proposed changes > forum discussion > Updated proposed changes > forum discussion > final changes that may or may not be the same as proposed.

How was this any different than all previous ages?

Proposed changes > forum discussion > Updated proposed changes > forum discussion > final changes that may or may not be the same as proposed.

Difference was >>> potential + potential + final + final.

Reason why I am being a pain is:

First Final change >>> UDs had conversion on attacks.

Would might them pretty strong... Giving history of Elfs, I doubt they intended to have Elfs have -35% off loss on attacks.

Elf is both.

Bishop > you created a new elf. Interesting

And I am still a pain:


Avians -10% Spell Success
Elfs +35% Spell Success (WPA)


+15% Resource Losses when attacked for orcs
Some people here needs definition on Resources. I think it is plunder gains (gc, runes, food), but I need to make sure, ie no acres or anything else

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Originally Posted by Pyrr

And I am still a pain:


Avians -10% Spell Success
Elfs +35% Spell Success (WPA)

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Avians don't have -10% spell success(which is wpa). Humans have it.

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Originally Posted by Pyrr

+15% Resource Losses when attacked for orcs
Some people here needs definition on Resources. I think it is plunder gains (gc, runes, food), but I need to make sure, ie no acres or anything else

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It's everything - runes, gc, food, scientists, land and honor(ambush gain should be excluded though).

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Originally Posted by Pyrr

How was this any different than all previous ages?

Proposed changes > forum discussion > Updated proposed changes > forum discussion > final changes that may or may not be the same as proposed.

Difference was >>> potential + potential + final + final.

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The final changes didn't change.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

The final changes didn't change.

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Actually they did, repeatedly. Or rather, they were edited. Which is by definition, a change.

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Originally Posted by Selephant

Actually they did, repeatedly. Or rather, they were edited. Which is by definition, a change.

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A clarification is not a change.

If you want to be pedantic, I'd say the text of the changes shared with players may have changed, but the changes themselves did not. Thus, no change to the changes.

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Originally Posted by Glimi

Suggestions are not the same as the doom and gloom you are trying to preach. You think we aren't getting new players because of mechanics....I think it's because of lack of effort. Zynga made millions from facebook games....I think Utopia would benefit from that integration as well...even without mechanic changes.

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I am afraid I have to share a different view. Facebook games are rich in graphics, the contents are short and the gameplay are repetitive. Simply say it sells on cuties and graphics. Utopia is far more greater, I am always confident in what I said.

Find me how many facebook games that last 15 years, along with its fan helping to create multiple third party programs. Utopia has the potential to keep loyal players who keep returning, there is a reason why, but how many of us know why is it? There are some of us taking a rest and some of us come back to play, don't be fooled by the current player base, the real player base is actually greater.

The need to change the current warring mechanism is because there is only one way to win the war, which is chain-to-win. And the reason why chain can win the war because the aiding, interaction, and support system between provs are limited. Given such as I mentioned before, if troops from a large prov can be stationed in a smaller prov in act of defense, and you perform a chain and you win the war, then I will agree it is great team work you have proven in your kd.

But the point is, it is not only your kd is able to chain to win, everyone of us can. When everyone of us can, naturally the answer is not because your kd has greater team work, the answer itself pointed to the flaws of the mechanism. It is the mechanism that allows every kds to be able to chain to win.

My primary reason why chaining should be stopped is because the current players cannot subject to heavy losses which they spent weeks or months to build it. If even old players such as you cannot get it what I mean, then I am afraid I really have elaborate long in details.




Let's put it this way.

I am an old player who play Utopia since more than 10 years ago. You tell me that I spent 2 weeks to build my prov from oop to 2k and then waste it at the first hour of the war and drop to 300, my sacrifice is needed because other team mates will help me win the war. I have been a monarch to lead a kd before, I know how a kd works to play a war, and the fundamental in it that applies to win a war. Yes I can understand that, because I stick to the game long enough and I am familiar with it.

Okay, now try to imagine this.

A new player, who have never heard of Utopia before, he never come to the forum, have no idea who the heck is Bishop, he don't even know who Mehul is.

He create an account here, landed in a random kd, beginning to explore how to build up his prov, and finally in a few weeks, he manage to grow above 1.5k. This is actually very good for a new player. Then right when a war happens, he has been set as a chain target and whuahla~~~ down to 300 acres in 6h. As a Monarch, you will try to explain to him that this is how wars happen in Utopia. This is called team work.

So what you are doing now is, you are trying to tell him that your prov has been chained, and it is called as team work. How much faith do you have in yourself, that you would believe this new player will understand this?

First ending, this guy accept your advise, and keep on staying in the game to continue figure it out what the heck is happening.

Second ending, this guy is on rage, refuse to accept and believe this should not happen to his prov. So what happens next? Players such as these will be viewed as a player who do not know what team work is. A trouble maker. He will be teased, scolded, and then under the Monarch's order, he will be razed out of the kd. And I assure you after his leaving, he will still be thinking it is Utopia is a crazy game that full of barbarians and dictators. The game has a problem itself but not himself. Can you actually blame him for that?

So can I lay out a few questions? I believe many of you old players wont even think about this.

How much do you expect from a stranger who is new to the game?

First, he just come to the game for 2 weeks. He is a stranger to the game. He don't even know what the monarchy means in a kd. What is the monarchy system? To follow exact orders in war. You expect a new player come here and follow whatever you said, before he even understand what the game is?

There are 90% of the game he hasn't explored yet. He never been a monarch before to lead a war of course he will not understand. The race/personality he chose for the first time probably are inappropriate and sucks like hell. The first time he participated in a war and he would probably got chained to 300 acres.

So second question here, can you tell me now, do you expect this new player even know the proper way how to release his army?

Oh yeah right, I first came to the game and within 2 weeks I already need to learn how to release my army? What are you crazy, or what?

How can a new player such as him understand what team work is in war? Just join the game and follow what others told him, is called team work? He don't even have an clue why chaining can win a war. It will be hard for him to accept that I create an account here and I have to listen to whatever others said in war and if I don't, suddenly the entire kd will raze me out and put harsh words on me before they do, they must be crazy he thinks.

We are old players, do you even understand what I mean by this? We can take a rest and come back to play, and we still can adapt the chain and how warring is. At the beginning, there is no such thing as semi-chain or deep-chain. As ages go by, years passed, chaining strategy is discovered, players in utopia becomes veterans, and hence warring becomes more extreme.

The current warring mechanism only applicable to the old players, it will be very difficult, to suit to the new player who never know Utopia at all.




Compared to the facebook games, which kind of games have a content in it? Utopia has a lot of fun features within, it is a fun game, but a fun game which no new player will ever discover how fun it is.

Why is that? Because you already chase the new players away. You already scared them away, before they even have the chance to stay longer in the game to explore the other features. Is this how a game should be? It shouldn't.

Even if you place your disagreement, you should have your focus of point. My focus of point is to increase the player base in the game. Any games will be a 100%, a 1000% more fun, when there are huge player base in it. You settle this problem first, the rest will be easier. Do you share the same focus point as mine?

"Immediately upon entering End of War Cease-Fire any provinces affected by plague will have it removed instantly.
Additionally, upon entering End of War Cease-Fire, the losing kingdom will receive 50% of their land as free building credits, while the winning kingdom will receive 150% of their land as free building credits. We would like to stimulate the ability for both kingdoms to recover from war such that both the losing kingdom has a better chance at coming out of war recovered and ready to fight again and more importantly, the winning kingdom has an opportunity to defend their land better upon exiting war."

Loving this change.

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Originally Posted by OldPlayerback

Destroying a player's effort in building something in a war or a battle, and needing them to rebuild again, is a game feature that is outdated a long time ago. Open up your eyes and look around the world, is there any new games that arise in the recent years have something like that?

Removing entirely the chaining system in a sudden would be risky, a step by a step should be taken to test the response and best if it can be directly tested at the incoming Gen server. The last thing of course I would not want to see is turning Utopia into a Crash of Titan-like, its uniques in race when combo with personalities must be maintained, yet personally i would not agree a direct involvement such as to increase the gangbang protection once a prov been chained.

What I wish to see is the changes of the game mechanism, to increase more options and methods to play the war, this mean, still you can offer the players in war and they can still deep chain a prov but it will comes with great disadvantage and may result in losing the entire war by doing that.

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Deep chaining is currently the only really feasible way to disable a province. The reason that deep chaining is so used is because it's simply too dificult to kill off offence.
If it was made easier to kill off the offence of attackers then the need to chain as deeply would decrease or go away. So either change overpopulation mechanics to include troops out on attack or come up with some other way to touch troops out on attack that doesn't depend on ambushes.


I do think that the game needs to have some destructive elements. I don't want a game where every war is an endless slugfest where there is no noticeable change until the game decides for you by some completely arbitrary metric that you have won/lost the wars. Wars should have clear winners and loosers where both sides clearly sense who has won/lost. That being said, recovering troops is a whole lot easier than recovering acres and troops so if we could decrease the need for deep chaining by enabling proper disabling of provinces at larger sizes that would be good.

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Originally Posted by Pyrr

So these final changes are the last ones?

I dont really care what the changes are, we all need to adapt.

But after first final changes we put in some time discussing what setup, total waste of our time now it seems. No disrespect, but be very clear in what you are putting up. I am happy to help with that from now on if you want input.


To clarify: Elfs have -35% Military Casualties
So now, they can attack with -35% losses?

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Pyrr - I do apologize if I caused you any inconvenience or wasted time. I know it can be frustrating when things you expect not to change, do change. However, I believe the only change that occurred within the Final Changes post was the addition of the War Hero conversions. I had spent a fair portion of time editing the changes to ensure everything we actually implemented into the new code was documented properly and (to save lots of details) I removed that line of text instead of editing it.

However, as Zauper pointed out any Edit's to the Final Changes post after that was only to help clarify things. While I believe my wording conveyed the mechanics adequately, specificity was requested by some and so provided.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoBDuDe

On the topic of "When do actual changes come out?"
I would like some feedback on topics that they KNOW that they either: will/will not/think about it (either from a ramifications or implementation)
When it all comes down to it they are in charge of the changes, and besides some feedback (good/bad/ugly) from other players there is no acknowledgement (good/bad/ugly) from the people who actually implement the changes.

I think (especially since they are players themselves that wanted to improve the game and went so far as to buy it) that they would appreciate the even just an "Hey so and so is a neat idea in our (the owners) eyes and will try to implement your idea.
Even a flat out "We have no intention of implementing so and so idea" could get you off of that idea and maybe into a different direction for a new idea.

For every problem(OP/nerf/strat/mechanic), there are usually a handful of workarounds. Some just in theory, some only in our heads, and some just dont pan out.
But given that the new owners present themselves as players themselves, I think that they can afford some leeway in how they interact in the forums with other players... Especially in Sub-forum named Suggestions.

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Hi BoBDuDe - I have actually thought on this before your request and I do believe it has merit. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a great way to achieve this. The current method of replying with quote is unintuitive and cluttered and makes linear conversation difficult to follow. The only other option I see is for me to edit your post with my response (or Jeff or Bishop). But I don't believe you would get any notification on that, thus never knowing to look for such a response.

One thing to keep in mind is that keeping up with a thread of this magnitude takes significant time. In just 7 days this thread has nearly 440 responses. That's over 60 responses per day (some easy to read and others not so quick to read!). Reading the feedback and suggestions is only a small portion of what goes into finalizing the changes as well. Not only do we read the feedback, we collectively discuss as a team the ramifications such effects might have on the game. Considering that we all have full time jobs, and families that mostly takes priority over the communications that we have it is not always feasible for us to respond in any short amount of time.

You should also note that we did in fact revise the proposed changes to include quite a bit of community feedback from the original proposal.

Last important factor to understand is that final changes do not get determined instantly and posted. It is a collaboration over several days (essentially since the revised changes). It takes time to propose the final changes to one another, discuss the variations we want to implement and actually have them implemented so we can test them to ensure they are going to work as we describe them. With that understanding, we also feel that having Final Changes announced with TOO much time before the end of the current age may be detrimental to the gameplay of the existing age.

Rest assured that we do read all of the feedback and suggestions players provide. Although we may not always directly respond, ideas that we would like to see do get recorded for future reference. Our team is very organized and very thorough. We want to provide the best possible game experience for everyone and to do that we will implement as many features into the game that will have the most positive impact on the community. Not all suggestions will make it to implementation, but such is life.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavidC

Hi BoBDuDe - I have actually thought on this before your request and I do believe it has merit. Unfortunately, I don't believe there is a great way to achieve this. The current method of replying with quote is unintuitive and cluttered and makes linear conversation difficult to follow. The only other option I see is for me to edit your post with my response (or Jeff or Bishop). But I don't believe you would get any notification on that, thus never knowing to look for such a response.

One thing to keep in mind is that keeping up with a thread of this magnitude takes significant time. In just 7 days this thread has nearly 440 responses. That's over 60 responses per day (some easy to read and others not so quick to read!). Reading the feedback and suggestions is only a small portion of what goes into finalizing the changes as well. Not only do we read the feedback, we collectively discuss as a team the ramifications such effects might have on the game. Considering that we all have full time jobs, and families that mostly takes priority over the communications that we have it is not always feasible for us to respond in any short amount of time.

You should also note that we did in fact revise the proposed changes to include quite a bit of community feedback from the original proposal.

Last important factor to understand is that final changes do not get determined instantly and posted. It is a collaboration over several days (essentially since the revised changes). It takes time to propose the final changes to one another, discuss the variations we want to implement and actually have them implemented so we can test them to ensure they are going to work as we describe them. With that understanding, we also feel that having Final Changes announced with TOO much time before the end of the current age may be detrimental to the gameplay of the existing age.

Rest assured that we do read all of the feedback and suggestions players provide. Although we may not always directly respond, ideas that we would like to see do get recorded for future reference. Our team is very organized and very thorough. We want to provide the best possible game experience for everyone and to do that we will implement as many features into the game that will have the most positive impact on the community. Not all suggestions will make it to implementation, but such is life.

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Tl;dr version:

These forums suck?

Mystic will become irrelevant due to massacre of wizards. 2-3 opening massacres there goes 3-4 wpa especially if they run bloodlust and/or orc. You have very much failed on that issue. Everything else looks like it should. I have never seen or heard fae being under populated in any novel or fantasy anything but adds flare to the game. Most other races hit there marks on a racial level as many fantasy artist and writers have portrayed. I like the new changes but you will in turn have to take wizards out of massacre or create a spell to help prevent them from easily being destroyed as wizards are only gained over time not trainable at a moments notice as thieves are. Just something to keep in mind. If you don't believe me have same size 2 same size orcs with bloodlust massacre 1 elf mystic each twice and watch them start to fail spells due to low wpa. Yes guilds are twice as effective but that isn't enough trust me. Most attackers this age ran a 3-4 wpa and most sage ran a 5-6 wpa. I ran a 8 and still failed many times after magic shield and reflect magic spells were up. Ofc my 8 wpa never lasted long because of 2-3 massacres. This last war I started with 7.9 and one land grab and 2 massacres later I was 5.8. Which is lower than some sages at the time.

Just try it and see. And also look how long it takes to recover the 2-3 thousand wizards killed. Run 20% homes at 2500 acres with a 7.9 wpa. Just so you can see it. Not to mention bloodlust is better. Also the military causiltes minus on elf doesn't count wizards. They are separate. That is why we can cast spells even though the military refuses to operate due to lack of wages or overpop.

Am I only one seeing that mystics are easily manageable and become irrelevant with 4-5 massacres?

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Originally Posted by Alleria

Yes guilds are twice as effective but that isn't enough trust me. Most attackers this age ran a 3-4 wpa and most sage ran a 5-6 wpa.

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This will be fixed for the coming age due to the changes to sci (channeling science no longer modifies wizard production, sci spawn being lowered/Rev nerfs/higher scientists required to reach caps means there will be less sci floating about and a greater need to focus on the desired areas - most attackers don't focus channeling early on). And mystic got a guild boost back, though really the major challenge to maintaining wpa advantage in age 70 was popspace rather than speed of training.

Quote:

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I ran a 8 and still failed many times after magic shield and reflect magic spells were up..

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It is often useful to MV these spells before a casting run.

Quote:

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Am I only one seeing that mystics are easily manageable and become irrelevant with 4-5 massacres?

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Mystics have always been counterable. It still requires a signficant input of resources from the enemy (either offense power wise - 4-5 massacres on a TM is costly - or rogue stealth). As it should be, on both counts.

Also, just as a general comment, I think it's good to get in the habit of thinking about your province in terms of what it can do rather than what it can't. Yeah, if you eat 4-5 massacres, it's gonna hurt your MS success. You can still do many things to help your KD. FB fat attackers for pop control, ET rogues, etc. All is not lost :)