CR vs AMA

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23-02-2014, 13:24
Tapout

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Badass

If you dealbreak to shape the charts, yes.

What about Farmouts to shape chart?
23-02-2014, 13:34
Korp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximouse

And to those that say the others involved gained from this:

Pyro gained 12K to 13K from this. And now refuse to raze those even though they promised.
Simians gained 3 acres I think from a testhit. Only bounces and razes besides that. I am sure anri is willing to remove those 3 acres.
Rage gained nothing. They did 100% razes and bounces.
Rusty gained nothing. They did 100% razes and bounces.
CR gained? Ehm, wait. We are still not on the size we were before AMA dealbroke and we are now razing opponents. We did loose around 900 million gc we had stocked.

So who gained here? I only see 1 KD that really gained

Its fascinating how you leave out what you gained and just say its not what you lost. Why are you trying to hide the amount that you gained?
23-02-2014, 13:36
Proteus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maximouse

Will safe the rest for pm with you. You and I both know your not the saint your trying to pretend you are

And you pretend to be a saint? You play dirty plenty of times which you attempt to then cover with your "pro diplo" which isnt as good as you think it is (but definitely better than your strategy thats for sure lol).
23-02-2014, 13:37
Lupine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anri

we gained 3a total in this conflict, feel free to remove it, your wish is my command. RBL also did 100% razes just like rusty did.

From what i can see the problem is that Pyro took 15k acres, yes its a huge problem to me also. I think it was not right of them to do this, they should remove these acres. Pyro had huge self interest in this and in no way should anyone benefit from a GB.

Regarding Rusty, if they feel like exploring while participate in the GB to get better range on AMA then thats fine. Its thier pool and they can use it as they want too.

What else is there? CR got thier acres back, to the rightful owner and CR all along had top advantage over AMA/Pyro, they are left way more hurt now then they was before AMA dealbroke them. It would be more then fair if Pyro removed thier 15k acres etc.

This is just my pov, you can have you own and argue it, i wont change my mind. GBing dealbreakers is the right thing to do and they should not be left with any chances to effect the outcome of this age and they most certainly should not have chance to prov crown, WW crown etc.

Your initial GB aim in this early pages of the thread was to punish AMA for dealbreaking. I don't read anything about PROV crown or WW crown etc. And yes, some talks about CR should taking what they lose etc. So now, CR is more hurt or AMA is more hurt because of certain malicious individual intend to extend their grudge over AMA by manipulating self called FAIR PLAY system and punish Ama for deal break.
23-02-2014, 13:42
Anri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapout

You realise you could have taken Elits offer of a CF for all parties, not crowning and no interference when it was given and taken him at his word. Whatever happened then you guys could have walked away in a good light:

1) If he kept it you would have the Pyro / CR age end war and your ideal of a new fair play regime - having shown that you are fair and just in the way you enforce it. And allowed AMA the chance to prove they could actually keep their word and have the top united in the goals set.

2) AMA don't keep word, no-one can possibly disagree with you that they are indeed a bunch of deal-breaking ****players and then deserve to be GB'd to 25 greens, be it this age or next.

I'm not sure what you believe the current way of dealing with things makes people think of you, but it seems to me you guys have massively shot yourselves in the foot and no-one (with the exception of Nesta) seems to have the brains to see it. How any of you plan to walk away from this with a reasonable solution or with any kind of support from the rest of the server is a mystery to me.

If we would have done what Nesta and crew did i would have shot myself in the head. After all this time Simians could have gained a lot on this conflict if we wanted too. We could have said, ok, bye bye now RBL, Rusty and the rest, we took free acres and now we gonna explore and pump as well. Have fun fighting AMA while not in range. Tapout, you have a very clouded judgement when you think that the only KD that gained out of this conflict is the clean one for stepping out. If they had razed 100% where they should have then this would more then likely been over all ready.

Plus, you can clearly see that Elit still today thinks nothing he did was wrong. Stopping the GB is pointless if it has yet not gone into Elits thicks skulll that what he did was wrong and he should have no outs this age where he can crown anything etc.
23-02-2014, 13:45
Anri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lupine

Your initial GB aim in this early pages of the thread was to punish AMA for dealbreaking. I don't read anything about PROV crown or WW crown etc. And yes, some talks about CR should taking what they lose etc. So now, CR is more hurt or AMA is more hurt because of certain malicious individual intend to extend their grudge over AMA by manipulating self called FAIR PLAY system and punish Ama for deal break.

Because there is private convos non stop where Elit demands a free WW from RBL to take WW crown this age.
Elit has these demands, also a perfect chance to take prov crown from it. Elit lost his rights to have these kind of crazy demands. Only Nesta posts highly confidential loggs here and leaves out things to make him look like some hero. I hope AB or someone else has the time to nail Nesta hard for this, because he is almost as dirty as Elit is by everything i have seen last days.
23-02-2014, 13:47
Elit

Thanks for logs Nesta13 i enjoyed read them too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tapout

Thank you, it is most appreciated....

I also find it interesting that since the CF I've seen AMA only defend the stance you've taken and not doing any trash talking or suggest payback (that I can remember) whereas those from Fair Play seem very happily to instantly trash you guys for upholding what you believe is 'Fair Play' in the decisions you've taken.

Anyway that might take me some time to read and digest all of that, but thank you again.

<NesTa13> i dont expect you to not keep grudge and hunt us next age
<Elit> im going 1vs1 pyro if we war
<Elit> we wont make any other different from 1vs1
<Elit> and im not sure i will keep much grudge
<Elit> vs pyro
<Elit> because you made correct choice
<NesTa13> good to hear that
<NesTa13> i cant wait to 1 v 1 with you too
23-02-2014, 13:47
Anri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

Its fascinating how you leave out what you gained and just say its not what you lost. Why are you trying to hide the amount that you gained?

what did CR gain by getting dealbroken and stripped of its banks?
Typical Korp post that makes no sense. You know CR gained nothing from this. They are more hurt then from before this.
23-02-2014, 13:47
ZodZilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anri

Plus, you can clearly see that Elit still today thinks nothing he did was wrong. Stopping the GB is pointless if it has yet not gone into Elits thicks skulll that what he did was wrong and he should have no outs this age where he can crown anything etc.

Again, you're just hatemongering. Does it really look like a crown is on our agenda? Furthermore what would that have to do with you aside from a grudge? And I would also again remind you that you have dealbroken us twice, reasons be damned.

Also to clarify: nobody puts baby in the corner
23-02-2014, 13:50
Anri

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZodZilla

Again, you're just hatemongering. Does it really look like a crown is on our agenda? And furthermore what would that have to do with you aside from a grudge? I again remind you that you have dealbroken us twice, reasons be damned.

In last diplomatic attempts Elit has demands to keep banks (prov crown) and demand to get WW from RBL to get WW crown.

Thats a big NO! Loggs also shows that Elit is yet to understand what he did was wrong.

01[21:58] <Elit> [21:57] <NesTa13> when you say grudge, do you mean ****play again?
01[21:59] <Elit> i did 0 **** play all age
01[21:59] <Elit> so dont say it
23-02-2014, 13:56
Tapout

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anri

If we would have done what Nesta and crew did i would have shot myself in the head. After all this time Simians could have gained a lot on this conflict if we wanted too. We could have said, ok, bye bye now RBL, Rusty and the rest, we took free acres and now we gonna explore and pump as well. Have fun fighting AMA while not in range. Tapout, you have a very clouded judgement when you think that the only KD that gained out of this conflict is the clean one for stepping out. If they had razed 100% where they should have then this would more then likely been over all ready.

Plus, you can clearly see that Elit still today thinks nothing he did was wrong. Stopping the GB is pointless if it has yet not gone into Elits thicks skulll that what he did was wrong and he should have no outs this age where he can crown anything etc.

If it was a CF for all involved how would you be leaving them to war AMA alone?
23-02-2014, 13:57
Lupine

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anri

If we would have done what Nesta and crew did i would have shot myself in the head. After all this time Simians could have gained a lot on this conflict if we wanted too. We could have said, ok, bye bye now RBL, Rusty and the rest, we took free acres and now we gonna explore and pump as well. Have fun fighting AMA while not in range. Tapout, you have a very clouded judgement when you think that the only KD that gained out of this conflict is the clean one for stepping out. If they had razed 100% where they should have then this would more then likely been over all ready.

Plus, you can clearly see that Elit still today thinks nothing he did was wrong. Stopping the GB is pointless if it has yet not gone into Elits thicks skulll that what he did was wrong and he should have no outs this age where he can crown anything etc.

Lets do this again. AMA waved CR. AMA is nr1. Server went mad and furious over AMA deal break, form an alliance tagged Fair Play and punish AMA with razes and trads. Now AMA wd and decided to offer CF. So RBL was involved in the fair play gb right? Shouldn't RBL entitled for a CF till eoa too if they accepted it?
23-02-2014, 13:58
ABSLover

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightmare_

I've never really understood this point of view, and it's one that is shared by many in these forums. Logs should be freely shared. If people are as good and their intentions as righteous as they claim to be, then the logs should show it. I see no reason to hide logs. If you have logs which show a different point of view, or paint the alliance in a different light, show them. If you disagree with the logs he has posted, explain why. If you feel that he has left out critical information in the "??", say so. Secrets are the last thing that should be kept when trying to be "fair" and "right;" if anything, withholding information and being opaque creates many of these issues due to misunderstandings.

Its PLAIN and SIMPLE! Those private logs Exposes the Real Reason for the GB! ;-)
23-02-2014, 13:58
ZodZilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anri

In last diplomatic attempts Elit has demands to keep banks (prov crown) and demand to get WW from RBL to get WW crown.

Thats a big NO! Loggs also shows that Elit is yet to understand what he did was wrong.

01[21:58] <Elit> [21:57] <NesTa13> when you say grudge, do you mean ****play again?
01[21:59] <Elit> i did 0 **** play all age
01[21:59] <Elit> so dont say it

How hard is it to understand that both everyone and no one is wrong?

Banana for scale.
23-02-2014, 14:02
American Badass

You should of tried speaking with me more Elit or munk. Most of the people you think hate you were actually the ones trying to diplo and get you a deal ;). This was even after you told me you didn't want to speak to me:

[18:23] <&maximouse> April 1 of YR9 viNdict Top Hypocrite Birthday (x:x) has withdrawn from war. Our people rejoice at our victory!
[18:23] <&maximouse> in case anybody missed it
01[18:23] <@AmericanBadass> hi
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> okay
[18:24] <@munk> i mean, for everyone sake -- we gotta make sure ama are done with their FSU
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> here's the unfortunate truth about all this
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> we can't trust elit
[18:24] <@ShadowFoxRedux> this ^^
[18:24] <@munk> still
[18:24] <@munk> at some point
[18:24] <@munk> we gotta stop razing
[18:24] <@munk> and give them benefit of the doubt
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> agreed
[18:24] <@munk> question is when
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> well
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> I don't know if we have to give hem the benefit of the doubt
[18:24] <@Cerberus_v666> :P
[18:25] <@Cerberus_v666> Were I him
01[18:25] <@AmericanBadass> I been speaking to Proteus in general now for the last hour (about the game in general etc)
[18:25] <@munk> and making them jump thru hoops and apologize in forums
[18:25] <@munk> is not the way
01[18:25] <@AmericanBadass> It is like speaking to PS
01[18:25] <@AmericanBadass> :p
[18:25] <@munk> if we want to make ama calm down
[18:25] <@Cerberus_v666> and you gave me even the slightest chance to take revenge this age
[18:25] <@Cerberus_v666> I would
[18:25] <@munk> making demands like "post sorry in forums" etc
[18:25] <@munk> is bad
[18:25] <@Cerberus_v666> oh, I don't care about the sorry in forums
[18:25] <@munk> just give them a deal, where they can go be quiet in the corner.
[18:25] <@Cerberus_v666> what deal would you propose munk?
01[18:25] <@AmericanBadass> But I have gotten him to agree upon one thing. Rules need to be drawn up. Proteus has actually been quite co-operative
[18:25] <@munk> they get 96hr notice with any kd they want?
[18:26] <@munk> from yr10
[18:26] <@munk> or smt?
[18:26] <@munk> i dunno
[18:26] <@munk> i'm just thinking out loud
[18:26] <@Memster> with a 20k, 16k and 14k human
[18:26] <@munk> yeah they need to raze that i guess
[18:26] <@munk> they need to take away 8k cow acres?
[18:26] <@munk> min.?
[18:26] <@munk> or smt
[18:26] <@munk> shrug
[18:26] <@munk> someone else figure it out:P
[18:26] <@munk> my point is just
[18:26] <@cJ> i can talk to elit if u guys want. i am on 'okay' terms with him. he wont go 'raging' on me
[18:26] <@Cerberus_v666> lol
[18:27] <@Cerberus_v666> I've only ever talked with him once
[18:27] <@munk> the nicer a deal u make, the more likely the deal will work.
[18:27] <@Cerberus_v666> and it was just to tell himt o sotp threatening people
[18:27] <@Cerberus_v666> :P
[18:27] <@munk> just like WW1
[18:27] <@munk> :D
[18:27] <@munk> don't make elit go hitler on us in 20 yrs
[18:27] <@cJ> btw we can help LD those cows if they dont want to raze :P
[18:27] <@cJ> btw we can help LD those cows if they dont want to raze :P
[18:27] <@cJ> i mean we could break past 24hrs
[18:27] <@cJ> but we didnt.
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:33] <AmericanBadass> then noone benefits from the situation
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:33] <AmericanBadass> when rules are made
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:33] <AmericanBadass> when rules are made half way
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> im open to it if people actually do it
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <AmericanBadass> that is when one gains and one loses
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> when darkie did that channel about this there was a lot ofchatter
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> and much skepticism
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> i think what you need to do is propose set ofconditions
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> and show it to every kd leader
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> and ask kd leader if they think this is fair
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <proteus> without any strings attached
01[18:27] <@AmericanBadass> [17:34] <AmericanBadass> I will make, but I want EACH kingdom to have an inpute
[18:28] <@Memster> So until they agree to raze down those humans
[18:28] <@Memster> There can be no deal
[18:28] <@Memster> no, gotta be more
[18:28] <@Memster> those cows need to be 50% size
[18:28] <@Memster> I can go talk to him
[18:28] <@Memster> He doesn't know me
[18:28] <@Memster> And I can see what he's thinking
[18:28] <@cJ> cause it's not fair to havoc to break thos cows
[18:28] <@cJ> kees was screamingggggggg to tm
[18:28] <@munk> i think u got plenty of acres alraedy ;)
[18:29] <@cJ> i know
[18:29] <@cJ> we were looking at ur gains
[18:29] <@cJ> and our gains
[18:29] <@cJ> anw.
[18:29] <@Cerberus_v666> why are we talking to proteus?
[18:29] <@cJ> what i ca sugget is we halt hits for a while. like a few hrs. i mean it wont matter that much
[18:29] <@cJ> at least we can show we are being 'understanding'
[18:30] <@cJ> thse few hrs of halting hits wont save ama if we were to continue later anw
01[18:30] <@AmericanBadass> I was speaking to him waaaaaaaay before they wd
01[18:30] <@AmericanBadass> as posting back and forth in forum was pointless
01[18:30] <@AmericanBadass> People tend to agree more away from the public eye
03[18:31] <&maximouse> ab, if you want everybody to agree on something, deal has to be made with elit and confirmed by proteus and cello from ama
[18:31] <@cJ> anw, i think halting hits for 2-3hrs to let diplo take place is best
01[18:31] <@AmericanBadass> Yeah, I was just seeing if he would even consider anything
01[18:32] <@AmericanBadass> he seems to want to
[18:32] <@cJ> 2-3hrs wont change anything in the end, just allowing time for diplo totake place hits-free
[18:32] <@cJ> what do u guys think?
01[18:32] <@AmericanBadass> but said ultimately it is Elit and atm Elit is going mental
[18:32] <@Ryan__> im fine with that
01[18:32] <@AmericanBadass> lol
[18:33] <~topsy> hey can i get confirmation about the 96 hour thing
[18:33] <&maximouse> I am fine with holding hits for 2 or 3 hours

**Various deals / chats with Elit go on"

******

[18:50] <@cJ> nah ama cant kill our cows
[18:50] <@cJ> we got too much backing
[18:50] <@Cerberus_v666> yeah
[18:50] <@cJ> kees and zen is pumped
[18:50] <@cJ> so is nesta
[18:50] <@Cerberus_v666> our cows are vulnerable. :P
[18:50] <@Procy|laptop> nesta nub pumped last time I looked at his cb!
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> at any rate
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> if they were to drop war
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> and declare rage
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> that would be the only way to get any "free"ish cow acres
[18:51] <@cJ> rage cows are the 1 in trouble
[18:51] <@Procy|laptop> that's where I was going with that
[18:51] <@cJ> kees was wanting to tm their cows like 12hrs ago lol
[18:51] <@cJ> zen too
Session Close: Thu Feb 20 18:52:06 2014

==================================================================================================== =======================

1[19:45] <@AB> I think so too maximouse, but everyone agrees Havoc was in strongest position to crown
01[19:46] <@AB> so anything but a havoc crown or a fight between Pyro vs Havoc to achieve it means IMO elit crap play paid off
[19:46] <@Cerberus_v666> oh
[19:46] <@Cerberus_v666> talking with elit
[19:46] <@Cerberus_v666> he says if we give him a crown this age
[19:46] <@Cerberus_v666> he will consider all past wrongs forgiven
[19:46] <@Cerberus_v666> and move forward
01[19:46] <@AB> but would he?
[19:47] <@Cerberus_v666> I told him that was unlikely to be accepted because it shows that dealbreaking can lead to a crown, and that's not a precedent we can accept, but that I would communicate the offer.
[19:47] <@Anri|NotHere> !orders
03[19:47] * Anri|NotHere is now known as Anri
[19:47] <@Anri> !orders
[19:47] <@Anri> yooo
01[19:47] <@AB> also, all those past ages there is justice for the reasons of him being **** played
[19:47] <@Anri> anyone got a faery/rogue build quick for me
[19:47] <@Anri> i just got sitting on a faery again
[19:47] <@Anri> need to build it asap
[19:47] <@Anri> before tick
[19:47] <@Anri> !orders
01[19:47] <@AB> EG, he broke cf with Pew as they were no longer in the alliance. Simians do the same and then it is **** play
01[19:48] <@AB> Elit "you cant drop a cf as we were in alliance" even though he clearly did it to hit Pew
01[19:48] <@AB> That is just one bit of ****play
03[19:48] <@Anri> AB u got a faery/rogue build???
01[19:48] <@AB> 100% farms
01[19:48] <@AB> :P nope
1[19:48] <@AB> not played faery in ages
01[19:49] <@AB> I got a bad elf build if you want it?
[19:49] <&Devolution> lol
[19:49] <@Cerberus_v666> guys?
[19:50] <@Cerberus_v666> Can I have a response to elits offer
01[19:50] <@AB> If it made an end to **** play i would agree but we know it would not
01[19:51] <@AB> It also means elit is a liar as this age he has said numerous occasions he had no intention of ever going for the crown
01[19:51] <@AB> But if everyone here can agree that he has a justified arguement that AMA deserve a crown within the last 4 ages then I don't care

==================================================================================================== ============================

[20:06] <@Cerberus_v666> so
[20:06] <@Cerberus_v666> the crown thing is a no?
[20:06] <@Cerberus_v666> :P
[20:08] <@Memster> I would entertain it
[20:08] <@Memster> But, that is Pyro/CRs call
[20:09] <@Memster> And Maxi said he wouldn't even consider that deal.
[20:09] <@Memster> Which is 100% completely understandable
01[20:09] <@AB> Apart of that deal though would have to be we all agree upon some standard rules/guidelines as well
01[20:09] <@AB> before next age
01[20:09] <@AB> With everyones full co-operation
[20:10] <@Anri> aye
01[20:11] <@AB> I mean AMA has been shat play out of a few crowns or at least real good chances but SWEA/HOH/EJ who all benefited from them are not even around
[20:11] <~topsy> but yeah, my opinion is that stalling for them isn't a particulary good idea. They have showed no interest in solving this diplomatically. Furthermore the reason they are in this position in the first place is due to breaking a deal so I'm not sure how much a deal could be trusted anywase
[20:12] <@Cerberus_v666> a lot of people have been **** played out of crowns
[20:12] <@Cerberus_v666> we really need to all move on

==================================================================================================== ======================

[19:29] <&maximouse> k, I am gonna check with prteus and elit if they want to do diplo
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:29] <maximouse> hey there
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:30] <Elit> hi
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:30] <maximouse> did I understand it correct you are interrested in talking to see if we can end this?
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:30] <maximouse> or am I misinformed?
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:32] <Elit> i think you are
03[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:32] <Elit> AB offered me some nonsenses
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:32] <maximouse> k. too bad
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:32] <Elit> and i think you are onw from main guilty for all this
[19:33] <&maximouse> [20:32] <maximouse> I was hoping we could end this now
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:33] <Elit> if your kd didunt decide to act so smart and drop cf i had with zauper in progres there wont be all this drama
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:33] <Elit> how you sggest it end?
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:33] <Elit> im not interest any deal include havoc win age after what you did
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:33] <maximouse> we didnt drop a CF. We said we wouldnt extend it. CF was still up when you deal broke
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:33] <Elit> if you agree with it we can discuss rest
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:34] <maximouse> I cant agree to that
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:34] <maximouse> there is an agreement between pyro/simians/rage/cr that includes pyro and havoc fighting 1 vs 1 when this is over
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:35] <Elit> its not aproved from me so its not valid :)
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:35] <Elit> you did dumb move and need to pay for it
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:35] <Elit> how we pay now
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:35] <Elit> any other is not valid
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:35] <Elit> but this can give you better chances next age
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:36] <maximouse> we pushed you like you and others would push in our situation. It sucks to be pushed. But we didnt break any rules or agreement
[19:37] <&maximouse> [20:37] <maximouse> anyways, the agreement between the 4 kd's stands. I would like to end the stuff with ama but I cant and wont break any deals the 4 KD's that are involved made
[19:37] <&maximouse> -------

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There is more chats of us being reasonable and trying to get together to work out a fair solution but to accuse us of being one way and threatening them with 25 PKed provinces is absolute crap.

People will be able to see above as well how totally uncooperative Elit was being and how much pyro were wetting their pants at the prospect of gaining more cow acres. Notice as well with Elit most of the reasons is based around "trust". How can you trust someones word when they dealbroke, then claimed they didn't, then they did, then they didn't?

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