Age 71 Proposed Changes Suggestions

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Originally Posted by Coldhearted

Dwarf sages where really good this age. But sage got nerf ed and dwarf lost cs. But it doesn't make dwarf worthless as a race. Just change up how they are used. As of right now undead is just crazy strong and no kingdom won't run at least some undead. Orc took a major nerf and is basically unplayable now. I am not one to complain but I don't understand the point of increasing offensive numbers every age. It doesn't make the game more fun or even have more strategy involved. I don't get it but I will adapt and work with anything.

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Agree 100%

Kingdoms are becoming more and more and more Attacker heavy since there is no point of playing TMs. Especially not with the runes shortage this age as well.
Get 18-20 attackers and 2 big TMs just to help with SoM/ SoT help on enemy tms early war and massacre kill the tms 1x and 4x enemy attackers GG...

8 Def as an HA
12 off as an ORC/ UD today...
I mean an Dwarf have higher Def with elits/ DSpec today and an Human.

Why you wanna go TM when Sages is about same in Magic/ THievery science as well :P

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Originally Posted by Persain

2000 acre t/m being single taped by lets say orc/undead. If the enemy has 20 of them...how many t/m's do i lose in one wave?
answer 1. It takes 16 hilts to take a 2000 acre t/m into low enough land than u can spare off mass

2000*.9^16=370 that t/m should then be able to LL about 20 times for an average of 10 acres per LL and move to 570 acres. just enough to function as a chain finisher and not be 0 def.

The enemy then has 4 attackers left to chain with and a few spare armies so they can likely drop 1 attacker as well. 4*3=12+6 or so extra hits takes the attacker down to <300 and is "Finished"


If i was triple/quad taping with the same 20 orc/undead how many attackers can i chain? (i saw triple/quad because with only hitting attackers its likely a few end up on super low def)

answer 4. 20 orc/undead provide 60-80 armies and at say 16 hits per chain i can easily down 4 attackers. 4*16=64<<80. If your saying trading 1 t/m for 3 attackers is a bad move and completely destroys the game then your missing something

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you don't need to chain a t/m into oblivion, just enough that they need to start attacking and forcing them to release so they can't do any more damage or receiving on off hits from chained attackers. Or you know just chain them from top to mid range so they can't ever be UB for the war and generate any sort of econ or protected acres.

Must be nice to be in a KD that can LL that much, to be honest I haven't seen the many runes around in a long time (personally I think FB and NM is a far better use of runes but I probably don't know this game very well).


I'm assuming you play in growth KD's (FYI small % of people play here and these changes effect the entire population not just the elites). I think the most effective wave I've been apart of is taking down 3 attackers heavily on an opening wave (not common to do all war) If a KD is comprised of only a few t/m yes 3 for 1 is fair because once the other KD has no more t/m's they have no way to achieve any NW anchors and ability to control the top. We can throw out scenarios all day to suit our arguments do you want to ride the carousel with me for the rest of the day?

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Originally Posted by Avenger

My sims say otherwise. With max sci human barely overtakes undead. And then it's like a bit more off and QF vs -75% off losses, perma AD, plague. Not a hard choice.

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My instincts usually tell me not to compensate a race weakness with a personality strength, but my undead sage bell is ringing.

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Originally Posted by Deathlyric

First off, thank you for taking over UTOPIA. Will be nice to see old time players in the drivers seat instead of rookies who took to much water over there heads.
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I've played longer than David :) it would be nice if people stopped ragging on the old Devs. You wouldn't still have a game without them.

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Originally Posted by Deathlyric

First off, thank you for taking over UTOPIA. Will be nice to see old time players in the drivers seat instead of rookies who took to much water over there heads.
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Originally Posted by Bishop

I've played longer than David :) it would be nice if people stopped ragging on the old Devs. You wouldn't still have a game without them.

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Agree with Bishop here. Prior to us the game was run differently, but to assert it was run by rookies is very wrong. We are thankful for what the previous developers have done and are excited for the future of the game. There is no need to be negative towards the previous ownership. We are all about building a positive future, let's keep it that way.

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Originally Posted by Deathlyric

I ran 13 RTPA (Most of the wars, sometimes more)
5-6 RWPA
77% Draft
BE (80-85%)

30% Homes
5% Farms
25% TDs
5% Guilds
25% Towers
20% Forts

150% Wages on pre-war, 180% wages early war.
Had about 190-195 DPA.

Rogues and HA have lower Def then FA mate, + i really need high RTPA to break the enemy FA's ;)

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So, after devoting 19 PPA (Sometimes more) to non-military roles, you complain that you cannot defend your land ?

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Originally Posted by Bishop

I've played longer than David :) it would be nice if people stopped ragging on the old Devs. You wouldn't still have a game without them.

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Personally I think old devs where finally taking the game in the right direction. War based game with game mechanics to protect the warring tier which makes up 90% of the player base. New ownership time will tell but I think they are going in the wrong direction. Thing I don't get is why not just commit to war based game. If you had two servers a war based server and a growth based server. You would have probably 3k players in the war based server and maybe 300 people in the growth based server. War based server would probably attract alot more players also. Ask any war kingdom why they lose players. It's because they have to interact at some point with the growth tier.

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Originally Posted by Slayerviper

you don't need to chain a t/m into oblivion, just enough that they need to start attacking and forcing them to release so they can't do any more damage or receiving on off hits from chained attackers. Or you know just chain them from top to mid range so they can't ever be UB for the war and generate any sort of econ or protected acres.

Must be nice to be in a KD that can LL that much, to be honest I haven't seen the many runes around in a long time (personally I think FB and NM is a far better use of runes but I probably don't know this game very well).

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use your people to take runes and save them up(20% towers kd wide helps...and run production is up next age anyway). if the enemy is chaining your t/m you dont leave them completely solo to recover, help them semi survive Also semi chaining a bunch of t/m into the mid tier is a TERRIBLE option they will evetually become unbreakable it just takes longer and in the mean time u supercharger their tpa/wpa. my kd has OFTEN run feary rogues on just low enough def to tempt kds to do that. fearies job then all war is prop/retrain/ll. if i can keep 20% of your kd busy with a t/m' i dont care about i gain a massive advantage.

Massacres dont exactly slow down a feary you semi chained. When u take a 7 raw to a 12 raw then what mass down to 5 raw with 6-7 hits? thats gonna stop a feary from proping an undead/orc whose grown 30%? doubtful.

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Originally Posted by Slayerviper

I'm assuming you play in growth KD's (FYI small % of people play here and these changes effect the entire population not just the elites). I think the most effective wave I've been apart of is taking down 3 attackers heavily on an opening wave (not common to do all war) If a KD is comprised of only a few t/m yes 3 for 1 is fair because once the other KD has no more t/m's they have no way to achieve any NW anchors and ability to control the top. We can throw out scenarios all day to suit our arguments do you want to ride the carousel with me for the rest of the day?

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my kd is a war kd we're currently #15 in land and have basically hovered in the 10-20 size all age...we sit in that size MOST ages. Last age we ran orc warrior +elf heretic and took down 5-6 attackers opening wave every war...we'd of taken more but with every person in the kd 5 taping if orc and 4 taping if elf we simply didnt have enough generals to take down more people. And your right trading 3 for 1 is reasonable your right if you only have 3-4 t/m's than taking them out is smart. But thats kinda the point if you want a pure t/m size them so they cant be taken out, or mix in hybrids that become a priority. The obvious direction the devs are going is that having 6-7 100% safe t/m's in each kd and then a bunch of attacker that barely matter isnt the right direction. If you want someone in your kd like below...well let me address that

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Originally Posted by Deathlyric

I ran 13 RTPA (Most of the wars, sometimes more)
5-6 RWPA
Rogues and HA have lower Def then FA mate, + i really need high RTPA to break the enemy FA's ;)

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This

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Originally Posted by Quacky-T

So, after devoting 19 PPA (Sometimes more) to non-military roles, you complain that you cannot defend your land ?

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If your sole job is to break enemy t/m's AND have enough wpa to protect yourself than you should easily be double-tapable by attackers. Rogues in my kd ran 3-4 wpa and 7 tpa and filled their roll exactly as needed since we didnt go for pure t/m' oping. They mind you were able to stay single tap-able AND run enough offense that if/when chained they had offspecs to act as chain finishers.

If you want a t/m on 13 raw tpa and 5 raw wpa ANd u want them 100% safe from attackers whats the point if having attackers. you goal was to op enemy t/m's you run the risk of geting hit. otherwise if you can be safe whats to stop me from *****ing that i need 18 raw tpa to op you AND i also wanna be safe from attackers?

the orc resource loss penalty is brutal. Its way harsher than that -35% sci the UD have. the only thing that really really matters for a heavy attacker with big offense in war is land so they have the pop space to keep attacking. whats the point in their +gains bonus if they get to use the bonus for a couple of hits than they take 30 attacks with the resource loss penalty. honestly id go as far to say orc would be unplayable with this penalty. it would be 100% ud attaker age.

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Originally Posted by Quacky-T

So, after devoting 19 PPA (Sometimes more) to non-military roles, you complain that you cannot defend your land ?

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Yes i complain ;) Was great usage :D
14 + 6 = 16-17 PPA that i could use for Def :) Great to use and with our setup helped us out to win every war this age and the last 4-5 the age before that in the end as well.

Persain

"This" :)

How many wars have you won in a row ? :) It's all about a teamwork, if the HA's can break every enemy TM early war, you have to pick do 1x on the HA or deep chain the attackers with 220-240 OPA :)
With higher early RTPA as well, you gain more / op with prop as well and lower the NWPA.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

I've played longer than David :) it would be nice if people stopped ragging on the old Devs. You wouldn't still have a game without them.

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True i am greatful for your work Bishop, just sometimes you don't listen to the public and it's been no alpha testing.
Since we are the alpha testing every age with 0% tries in an test server.

Exampel the last two ages with the science.
Or the HA's been useless for 10 ages.

Human

Bonuses
+30% Income
REMOVED: Immune to Income Penalties
+10% homes coverage

Penalties
-15% Spell Success (down from -10%)
+50% Rune Costs (down from +100%)

Spell book: Greater Protection, Quick Feet
Elite: 10/5 (down from 11/5, 1000gc, 9.5NW

Orc
Bonuses
+20% Battle Gains (down from +25%)
Free draft
+30% Enemy casualties when attacking (up from +20%)

Penalties
+10% Resource Losses when attacked (down from +20%)
REMOVED: +15% Military Casualties
-25% Thievery Effectiveness (TPA) (down from -10%)

Spell book: Fanaticism
REMOVED: Blood Lust, Reflect Magic
Elite: 13/2, 900gc (down from 1000 gc), 11.5NW (up from 11)

Undead
Bonuses
-75% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Spreads and is Immune to The Plague
No Food Required
Attacks convert Offensive Specialists into Elites
+1 Offensive Specialist strength (down from +3 off spec strength)
REMOVED: Defensive losses automatically convert to soldiers(Permanent Animate Dead)

Penalties
Basic Thievery (Intel Operations Only)
No Elite Training
REMOVED: -35% Science Effectiveness

Spell book: Town Watch
Elite: 15/1, 11NW (up from 10.5)

UD should be playable as something else than just attacker (realistically, current change UD only allows for WH/Tact/Warrior). People should have a challenge trying to play UD/sage, UD/heretic or even UD/rogue-mystic if they want to. -35% sci effects make these 4 options IMPOSSIBLE.

Avian
Bonuses
-35% Attack travel time (up from -25%)
Cannot be ambushed
+75% Birth Rate (up from +40%)
REMOVED: +1 Offensive Specialist strength
Can Train Elites with Credits at the cost of 2 credits/elite

Penalties
REMOVED: -5% Combat Gains
Cannot Use War Horses

Spell book: Greater Protection
Removed: Fanaticism, Blood Lust
Elite: 11/4, 775gc, 10NW

Increasing their strengths, removing some of the "bland bonusses". Reducing offense and increasing speed. Avian is lightning fast but shouldn't be easily breaking fully turtled TMs (if you want that, run orc/UD). Playing with minus gains destroys a race (I experienced it when human had it).

Dwarf
Bonuses
+25% Building Efficiency (up from +20%)
Free Building Construction and Can Use Credits to Raze Buildings
-50% Building Construction Time
REMOVED: +1 Offensive specialist strength
+1 Defensive specialist strength

Penalties
Can't use Accelerated Construction
+100% Food consumption

Spell book: Mystic Aura, Added: Quick Feet
Elite: 9/7 (down from 9/8), 750gc (down from 850 gc), 9.5NW

Dwarves need a reason not to run full elite. Ospec bonus is just an OOP thingy, and dwarves are already strong OOP due to free build.

Halfling
Bonuses
+10% Population
+35% Thievery Operation Success (TPA) (down from +50%)
-40% Thief cost (down from -50%)
+1 Stealth per tick
REMOVED: +2 Offensive Specialist Strength

Penalties
REMOVED: -5% Building Efficiency
-10% Birth Rate

Spell book: Aggression
Removed: Mage's Fury

Elite: 7/8 (up from 6/8), 800gc (up from 700 gc), 10.5NW

The BE nerf makes halfling/rogue hard, esp with TD coverage bonus cut to +50% from +100%. Increasing their thief cost and elite cost makes them slightly harder to fully pump (especially if you want full elite).

Faery
Bonuses
+40% Combat Instant Spell Damage
+40% Sabotage Operation Damage
+1 mana per tick (removed: in war)
+1 off spec strength

Penalties
-5% Population
-10% Income

Spell book: All Racial Spells and Tree of Gold/Mages Fury
Elite: 5/10, 850gc (down from 1050 gc), 11.5NW

Faery will still not be a very potent attacker, but at least has some buff to its offense so it can ambush/exchange some hits. Having fae on 5/10 6/0 makes it very dimensional and just a pure turtle. I feel Faery needs MF more so than halfling.

Elf
Bonuses
+2 Defensive Specialist strength
+30% Spell Success (down from +35%)
+25% Spell Duration (instead of damage)
+50% Rune Generation
-35% Military Casualties

Penalties
+50% Military Wages

Spell book: Pitfalls, Invisibility, Fools' Gold
Elite: 8/7, 800gc (down from 900 gc), 9.5NW

Fae is the damage dealer, elf is the tanky duration TM. I like Elf as it is, can run a range of different perses and still be viable.

Personalities

The Cleric
-40% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Immune to The Plague
Access to Greater Protection, Animate Dead
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The Heretic
Wizards do not die on failed spells
Thieves do not die on failed operations
Successful spell casts get 35% of rune cost refunded
+20% Spell Success
+20% Magic and Thievery Science Effectiveness.
Access to Nightmares and Blizzard
Starts with +100 Wizards and +200 thieves
Access to Revelation

The Mystic
All Guilds are 100% more effective
+75% Magic Science Effectiveness
Access to Meteor Showers, Chastity, Revelation
Starts with +400 Wizards

The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
Thieves Dens are 50% more effective (please define again, is it effects or coverage?)
+100% Thievery Science Effectiveness (up from +75%)
Access to Gluttony
Access to Revelation
Starts with +400 thieves

The Sage
Protect 50% of scientists on abduct attack (up from 30%)
Scientists are 30% more effective (up from 25%)
Increase base Scientist spawn rate by 30% (up from 25%)
Access to Amnesia
Starts with 50% extra scientists (up from 20%)

The Tactician
-20% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage
Access to Clear Sight
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The Warrior
+10% Offensive Military Efficiency
Enhanced Conquest range
+ 1 General
Access to: Bloodlust (spell effect changed to: +5% own OME, +10% enemy casualties, +10% own casualties).
Starts with +800 soldiers and +800 specialist credits

The War Hero

+100% Honor Effects (down from +125%)
Immune to Dragon and Income penalty effects
Added: -66% training time
Increase honor gains by generating honor in all land attacks (in or out of war)
30% higher honor generation in war
Access to War Spoils
REMOVED: Pitfalls, Fanaticism
REMOVED: +10% Battle Gains
REMOVED: Converts some Specialists into Elites on successful land attacks (increasing this amount by ~20%)
Starts with 800 elites

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Originally Posted by Persain

use your people to take runes and save them up(20% towers kd wide helps...and run production is up next age anyway). if the enemy is chaining your t/m you dont leave them completely solo to recover, help them semi survive Also semi chaining a bunch of t/m into the mid tier is a TERRIBLE option they will evetually become unbreakable it just takes longer and in the mean time u supercharger their tpa/wpa. my kd has OFTEN run feary rogues on just low enough def to tempt kds to do that. fearies job then all war is prop/retrain/ll. if i can keep 20% of your kd busy with a t/m' i dont care about i gain a massive advantage.

Massacres dont exactly slow down a feary you semi chained. When u take a 7 raw to a 12 raw then what mass down to 5 raw with 6-7 hits? thats gonna stop a feary from proping an undead/orc whose grown 30%? doubtful.



my kd is a war kd we're currently #15 in land and have basically hovered in the 10-20 size all age...we sit in that size MOST ages. Last age we ran orc warrior +elf heretic and took down 5-6 attackers opening wave every war...we'd of taken more but with every person in the kd 5 taping if orc and 4 taping if elf we simply didnt have enough generals to take down more people. And your right trading 3 for 1 is reasonable your right if you only have 3-4 t/m's than taking them out is smart. But thats kinda the point if you want a pure t/m size them so they cant be taken out, or mix in hybrids that become a priority. The obvious direction the devs are going is that having 6-7 100% safe t/m's in each kd and then a bunch of attacker that barely matter isnt the right direction. If you want someone in your kd like below...well let me address that

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Normally some provs bank maybe 200K-300K (anything more screams LS and laugh) on a prov and its very easy to burn those up... and yes steal the enemies runes, they can do the same to you remember tactics happen in real time and don't only apply to one KD. People need to run more towers this age due to nerfs but they cry about building space... and pending on Kd strat running a but tonn of towers can be more of hinderance pending on a KD makeup. Usually when a t/m is focusing all their energy on LL it just means they are wasting their resources not damaging the enemy (also draining the entire KD of runes which is a huge waste) on noes you took some acres off a fat attacker :/

I dunno about you but we've fought bank type t/ms and dropping them to half their size was crippling as it compromises a KD's strat they suddenly don't have the top prov strength they would normally abuse econ wise. it was also just an example that there are more than one way to damage t/m and a KD composition without your chaining to 500 acre example (which is dumb imo). If done remotely right the t/m should be hittable all war by chained provs, let me know how that prov is doing after 4-6 massacres it don't matter what they were at they become a shell. Again throwing scenario's, you say 20% of a KD pure focus I disagree on this needed attention with proposed changes all it takes it eac attacker to 1 hit on the t/m(s) then 1-2 max gains on another attacker(s), your not really diverting that much KD focus when you suddenly have lost 1-2 very much needed province in the long term war (I assume wars last longer than min time). So your all for propping when the province is already overpop? Interesting.

Good on you for the 5 provs every time. Makes me wonder if you bully KD's that had no chance or are very lucky when it comes to getting easy wars. Elf heretics were OP last age though.

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Originally Posted by Deathlyric

Why you wanna go TM when Sages is about same in Magic/ THievery science as well :P

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This is another good point. And it's even worse with science basically a given constant rather than a deep and interesting dimension to the game. A Rogue previously might have chosen to invest more in thievery science and so exploit his advantage. Now sages and rogues will both max thief sci and then retire to the sea.

The new science system is really dumbed down. One of the things that I always loved about Utopia was science; it might have been broken in some ways, but the new system removes everything I liked.