Is he also British?Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
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Is he also British?Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
First of all, Nesta, 5-6 hitters into your 2nd wave is not the tail-end of your 2nd unique. At least one prov who had already hit got a chance to farm them, as well. If you take a look at our paper, you'll notice it occurs at the end of the 2nd, after aid is sent to our S. If you look at the data, there's an 72k NW drop between the 2nd and the third, but you've already seen NW drop from your ~7 attacks on the 2nd.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13nesta13
Secondly, you'll notice that we were not actioned for sending aid. Them having more troops than you was not the 'abuse'. The 'abuse' was resetting the two land-def provs, so the actioning occured at roughly the right time for you.
Third, our entire kingdom came oop with the same target defense aside from a few provinces who screwed up training. Other than def spells giving the fae a little more def, you had about the same amount to get rid of regardless of OOP aid.
80k NW is more than 11.5k troops (the amount of soldiers aided; less gc than enough to train them was aided), and Bishop didn't release the military in the order he described (for example, if you look at your sots on my province, you'll notice it has defspecs but no elites. In the order he mentioned, I should have no defspecs but 110 elites). Military was released off of 12 different provinces, not 5 as you mentioned -- every province that received aid. (Bishop confirmed this, btw). But here's an example -- you remember chaining our S? He had half our soldier pool (~1.5k soldiers), and had all of those soldiers, plus most of his defspecs released. He had received 800 sols in aid.Quote:
And (3), regarding the number of troops released, who's lying here then? CR members are saying Bishop released much more than what Bishop said he did. We on the other hand, didn't really care, and we didn't track. All we knew was that we were curious as to the fairness of their strategy, we sent in an email, and based on the numbers on CR's provinces and Support's reply to CJ's email, we knew Bishop took action. And we just went on with the war with no QQ. Is Bishop a more likely liar than CR members, or is it more likely the other way round? I leave that to all to judge for themselves. (exaggeration #3? or lie #1 from Bishop?)
It is what it is. People claiming 20k are obviously wrong (they're doing the basic math of 80k/4=20k, but Bishop also released a number of elites and soldiers so it doesn't quite work and the NW was 72k not 80k).
Or what we heard was CJ saying he was going to give them acres ~48h before the end of the age, when there was plenty of time for you to farm out to them. Combined with your kingdom training early for no particular reason.Quote:
Zauper, I cannot at any instance recall for once that we said we were going to farm out to Pewpew. Did you hear it from me? I know CJ was trolling you guys very very close to EOA where it was impossible for you to lose the crown by then (like just hours before EOA). Pew had no war heroes and hitting us wouldnt get the land in on time before EOA.
You're right; it's not your job to reassure us or anything. It's also not our job to be nice to you if/when you decide you want to be dicks.
We checked with Bishop and had explicit permission to rob/FG them and reset when they came out of suspension. We had permission long prior to them actually coming OOP. Of course, they also came OOP an hour before Bishop told us they would.Quote:
Lastly, I leave all interested readers some food for thought. CR resetted 2 provinces again in war, after being robbed/NSed/chained by us down to 200 acres, before war ended. Now they sit at >600 acres. So they reset for more resources again in war (for more land, more gold, more soldiers?) after explicitly being told resetting in war for more resources was what forced Bishop's hand in actioning them? War is still ongoing right? How can you reset before war is over?
and dark knight: 20 pages of thread you started, and you still don't realize you can't reset after sending aid because it counts as a hostile action? Impressive. You wouldn't see any aid sent from the two of them, because they wouldn't have been able to reset.
Wut, no he did not have all those troops released, he had 1.3k released. He also received 156333 gc and 848 soldiers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
I'm sure a flogger that's online for an entire hour in 3 weeks is much use ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
[15:59] <> March 2 of YR0 We have received a shipment of 1,024 soldiers from The sailors were happy (zz it's CR). Trade deficit taxes cost us 5% of the shipment.
[15:59] <> 5 seconds later, I have 0 soldiers
[15:59] <&munkbot> Sols:26 OS:3.3k DS:1.5k Elites:878 WH:2.4k
[16:08] <&munkbot> Sols:0 OS:3.3k DS:316 Elites:878 WH:2.5k
e: it does seem i was off about the size of the solpool, though.
Good to know at least someone has his facts straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Edit: oops...seems Bishop mixed up numbers? And post more locations plz Zauper!
unless there is another steward who received roughly 800 soldiers i think i am pretty accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by faegan
Then where did the 1000 soldiers go as well? Per the logs and sots I posted above, he lost 1k sols and ~1.2k defspecs. If those disappearing was a bug, can we get them back?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Should we report it as a bug?
Hi Zauper,
You did not drop 80k nw from troops released. the 80k nw dropped includes our attacks too. When the action was meted out, I personally refreshed all the top provinces of yours, and noticed 3 provinces dropping about 4-5k nw. Only after a while later (as it was in the middle of our wave and we were busy directing hits upwards) then we realized your chained had some stuff released too. That is why it effectively didnt do that much damage to you guys during the 2nd wave. And most of the troops released were on provinces that were chained already. I believe what Bishop estimates/numbers/said is true (because we didnt take note of new numbers). He mentioned about ~11-12k earlier, and it seems about right. I may be wrong on this.
*EDIT: Seems like it's right based on munk's numbers* and hence all the earlier numbers given in the thread are over-stated.
If you cannot agree with me that 1k troops trained at OOP (warheroes training speed, and assume 9 provinces x 1k soldiers each, and it's about 20% more military for those 9 provinces, and those would have been trained before any possible first retals) with +3mil tb worth of aid helps in giving a decisive advantage (at oop where everyone starts equal, no such thing as micro), then I have nothing to say. We wont blame our loss on that initial advantage.
But we will not apologize for asking bishop if it's legit. It is up to him to decide whether it is against the spirit of the game or not. I do not appreciate how Pyro bore the brunt of your members butthurtness (especially myself) when 1) it isnt only me that reported it, but I dare to say I did it, 2) it is up to the admins to decide if it's against the spirit of the game. We should respect the decisions of the admins. I have apologized before for my mistakes, but I am not sure if you guys would ever do that.
We fought this war knowing that chances of winning aint high, but we also know we would gain acres in a min-time war as we had more attackers ( in this case ~84hrs and we took back 1.8k acress), and it would slow you guys down. You hurt us, we hurt you back. Definitely, Pyros also suffered from the war.
Regarding the issue of Pyro 'going' to give Pew Pew acres, you got trolled by someone else not from Pyros. And within minutes of that trolling, a leader of AMA and myself got PM-ed by your guys expressing some disgust/hate/anger. I am pretty sure most of your kingdom knew I (& the AMA leader) was trolling, except the guy who was talking to me. I have logs showing that you guys knew it was all trolling and was poking fun at the CR guy I was talking to.
I dont understand why you would need to bring this issue up as it does not serve any purpose. Is it meant to ruin our reputation for something we didnt do? Also, didnt you guys determined last age that words do not mean anything unless action is taken.
Once again, congrats on your war win. You guys played well and deserved it. Till we meet again.
-cJ
Edit: I would love to hear a response from Zauper regarding the points I listed above.
LOL you got busted, son. They reset immediately after taking their provs 1hr later. Any aid sent would make them have to wait another 24 hrs. Therefore, there was NO AID SENT. GTFO. Apologies! Now!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight
I followed all numbers in war from the start. After getting **** released after the resets we went from 125k units to 123k. The 123k was partly because of 9.6k new solds on reset provs, so the loss from bishop was around 11.6k roughly (125-123 + 9.6k solds) . Not all intel was updated and some loss would have been due to the few hits that occurred between bishop releasing and me tallying numbers. So an estimate of 10-14k released units sounds about right. The fact that it was mostly def that was released made it a lot worse for us, since we ended up with provinces with stupid high off to def ratio that just got chained later and so their off became kinda useless.
Both kingdoms started conflict with around 120k trained units, so having 11-12k be released was v. significant as it was 10% of our total military while also being down two attackers + their econ. Additionally we were left with the TB from the feeding which meant that 5-8 provs were already in tax, making them expensive to feed.
The main reason we still won the war was due to superior econ control as our 3 mystics managed to FB their entire kingdom and our tpa provinces kidnapped aswell. They had 5x mystics but it seems that they choose to maybe ToG alot (they funded a dragon) and do other spells instead of doing econ control. That combined with continuous riots on them lost them the econ war, and I could follow the amount of trained units gap between the two kingdoms drop continuously as UDs sustained and their units were dying, while we were outtraining them. So in many regards this war was won by alot of correct microing of resources (runes/mana/training). Prior to their WD we had more military units than them and our UDs had converted a sizeable amount of elites which made the advantage even bigger.
Correct analysis of the errors we made, but there wasn't much we could do about the economy issues due to lack of sufficient TPA. We also didn't expect to run into CR straight OOP, so good job from you lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by munk
@Cromulent players:
Still baffles me why you'd wait 6-7h OOP for a full wave when there's another 25 province kingdom right there on your island. What was the reason for it? Please leave out replies similar to "we are the best, the rest is nubs" or "we are the Godly army and we will enslave the world".
What was the motivation of OOP+6/7 wave a kingdom with 25 provinces, themed and in pure whoring setup? Seeing you had no information regarding our race (but you could acquire that from snitches), personalities, military and our offensive actions the first few hours OOP due to being on different islands. Wasn't that an enormous gamble on your side? We could have had 1 rtpa and 8k+ defense on our provinces.
Looking forward to your response.
i assume the 1024 soldiers went the same way as the other 2k that were aided that tick, nothing to do with me anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Very well, we will report it as a bug, since they disappeared right before the HC and if you look at our SN, he did not aid them out before the tick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
(i'll respond after some meetings faegan)
lol. So 1 moment I am asking for the soldierpool to bounce a hit, then I recieve the soldiers, and the next time I refresh my throne (few seconds later) to check if pyro bounced, the soldiers are gone. No NS, no explosions. Nothing. Just the soldiers that are gone. And that has nothing to do with you? LMAO, who do you think your fooling here. Soldiers dont just go away on their own.
Faegan, I allready explained it to you.
These are the reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by faegan
1) We believed you to be 1 of the 3 top kingdoms that we didn't know the loc yet (AMA, BB, Pyro) through process of elimination & general experience of strats that top kds run. Non top kds don't run 20 human/wh + 5 faery mystic. That's a "I'm going to secure tons of CFs and pump and win late wars" setup. Taking out a top kingdom early is good strategy. If it was AMA, it would have essentially guaranteed a crown. So 1/3 chance for an outright crown.
2) We knew you would take it to war.. even with low defense and no tpa. So it was auto win mintime war with ~3k gained + WW bonus. It would have put you guys ~9k and us somewhere around 19-20k. Thats pretty big 48 hrs OOP.
You may argue with the correctness of this, but that is what was running through our heads. I trolled cJ about his biggest mistake, but the true biggest mistake was actually declaring in your position. The correct move was to CF & eat the wave since whoring the 2k lost would only take like 1 wave. Losing an early war is *very* disastrous.
I am not disputing i removed soldiers, i am disputing the amount. Zauper said you got 1024 solds, you actually got close to 3k that tick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximouse
The other 2k got aided back out, they were being aided back and forth in an attempt to bounce hits. The 1024 aid was at the end of the tick and those soldiers disappeared and were not aided back out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to his peg hole would grow.
March 2 of YR0 Theyd won their big fight has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 came a savior for them all has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to The pegboy was known.
March 2 of YR0 The pegboy was known has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to The pegboy was known.
March 2 of YR0 The pegboy was known has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 It was a cold dark night has sent an aid shipment to The sailors were happy.
March 2 of YR0 The sailors were happy has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
March 2 of YR0 there came a big wave has sent an aid shipment to It was a cold dark night.
That was the final sending of the soldier pool to him (the 1024 aid I showed earlier). He does not get NS'd, and he does not aid out again until 2 ticks later, when he aids out 300 runes. Yet you see that 9 minutes after the tick, he has 0 soldiers and most of the dspecs are gone. I was not referring to aid going in and back out as part of the aid he received before being released.
If it wasn't you, it was a bug. I PM'd you initially because our soldierpool disappeared, that's what we noticed first.
Faegan:
The reason is quite simple.
1) There was no other 25 prov kd on our island. slot 5 had 24 provs.
2) There were 3 25 prov kds we would see at the same time
3) You guys were running a late-age setup, which begs for an early wave.
CJ -
Frankly, I think folks are most upset you accused Hawk of spying for no reason.
Are you still on his server?
Your reason (1) only makes sense if you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
- Get someone from another island to tell you if there's a 25-province kingdom there that looks organized
- Mass mail said kingdom to get personalities
Your reason (2) only makes sense if you:
- Meet all requirements of (1)
- Get intel on provinces to know defense and tpa
Still a pretty large gamble to take for a first wave. Still no reason for not hitting a 24/25 province kingdom on islands 22, 23 or 24 prior to OOP+7h.
I still have this mass-message thing here, sent by a province which was in a kingdom on island 22 and since then reset and moved on to another kingdom. Funny thing is that the location + name in sent messages also change when you reset your province name and/or defect.
Faegan, if you dont want to believe our reasons, then why ask about them? We expected 5:21 to be ama, bb or pyro. So we waited 6 hours and waved. Setup suggested whoring since its a weird setup for early age warring unless you try to trick some ghetto. Against a decent KD your setup is terrible early age.
You guys didnt do your homework and secure cf's with nearby threats while running a full whoring build. You got chaught. Only reason you managed to do okay was because bishop helped you guys. Else it would have been a min time war
the def/tpa was largely guess work. We have hum/wh too so before we knew you were close we had already simmed their "whore" sim. Normally if a kd goes 25 provs that scale super late into the game they will be whoring oop so we just made sims based on the hum/wh whore build. Hum/wh that wants to whore comes out with about 22k off and 4k def on 1 tpa(you guys opted for a little more def on some provs to get to 5k and took from tpa) so we trained to about 8k def, 16k off, and 2 tpa. Right off the bat with this spread you are trading 2 taps for 4 taps and with the tpa differential you can manipulate the taps or econ as you see fit.
Going a whore setup doesn't mean you will excel at whoring. If you really want to whore all age and not just put your age up to luck of the island draw you need to go something that is strong warring early.
edit: I should point out those numbers are before the aiding.
With this answer, I would assume that you agree with me thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
1) Your guys who posted earlier in the thread over-exaggerated the numbers of troops removed, (with some even saying you lost 1/3 military kingdom wide and others saying 25k+ troops). And that you agree the amount Bishop removed (~11k, excluding this 1k soldiers thingy) is equivalent to amount of aid provided (time value of soldiers/gc not considered, just pure numbers)
2) The usage of using 2 provinces to provide those amount of aid gave you guys a sizeable advantage first few hours of oop (~20% more military on ~9 provinces, excluding time value of solds/gc).
3) There was no reason to bring up the point of Pyro 'saying' they might farm out to Pew end of last age (36hrs before ending of age). Because your guys knew it was trolling (I got some logs), and even still, the precedence was set last age by you guys that words without action do not imply anything.
4) Even before the Hawk AbsNET 'accusation', I am sure you knew your folks were flaming the whole of Pyros and myself at #tactics, pms and all. Blaming us for admin action that is meted upon you guys for abusing game mechanics. It seems pretty much a smearing campaign. Again, I would assume that your reply states that you do not condone such behavior from your members. If you agree with me, I expect a apology in regards to the flaming that some of your members said about my kingdom and myself pre-hawk incident.
--
In regards to accusing Hawk for spying on my private channel, I already mentioned to him I will apologize if I am convinced that he didnt do so. However, with the way things turned out at oop, with the amount of information that you guys knew about Pyros' setup/defense, and with several people telling me in PM that ABSnet may be unsafe, it is not unusual to think that our private channel may not be secured.
The fact of the matter is that it is very difficult to prove such stuff, and part of the basis of my judgement was the fact that flogger mentioned he got spied on last time in AbsNet.
At this moment of time, I will apologize for not bringing up this matter to Hawk personally before posting in this thread.
The leadership of Pyromaniacs has not been convinced that AbsNet server is 100% safe and we will be moving out shortly. We already contacted Stinger about this and we are making arrangements. We will be out soon.
-cJ
I'm becoming increasingly convinced that "cJ" is actually just a very well seeded markov chain
omg, I just spit coffee out my nose and onto my laptop.....
freaking jelloshots......
So use the report button. You seem ok at that. But you're wrong about what Bishop reset them for. You see, sending out aid on a freshly created province and THEN resetting is what the problem was. They reset this time without aiding out.Quote:
Originally Posted by 13nesta13
You want to talk interesting? How about the post by Bishop that says "Hey guys, we found a bug, please go abuse it ASAP while we try and fix it" ?
gg.
url?Quote:
Originally Posted by ezzerland
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...2#post15286742Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick_mi
Lol, this game is turning into a joke more and more it seems.
If you come with a coherent story that doesn't have huge holes in it, I'll gladly accept it. You, Godly and some others conveniently avoid answering how you knew there was a 20 hu/wh 5 fa/my on island XX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximouse
You personally told me that you used your Utopia network of old contacts to get a view of the world, asking them if there are kingdoms like X on their island. In a PM with cJ you claimed that you do not use spies. So which is it? You're either lying to me or to cJ, which decreases your credibility. I suspect that you told me the truth and you contacted people to ask if they knew of any 25-province kingdoms near them and if they would share that information...don't know why you lied to cJ though, but perhaps you were angry with him and were in full denial mode.
And yes, we got caught pants-down, simple as that.
Thanks for this very good run-down topsy, and it's quite accurate as well. Most of my questions are covered, it just makes me curious about one last thing: you suggest that you had time to adjust to our build/setup (I underlined it in the quoted text). Seeing you have an UD/Tactician core this would require at least 16h of training time to do adjustment..but..you didn't know what to prepare for 10h before OOP. You just picked a warring strategy for be prepared for anything that you came across, was that it?Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
EDIT: Now I see it. I misread your explanation and I understand it fully now. I will no longer bug you with questions. Many thanks Topsy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
Quite frankly I don't get what this has to do with all of this? :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
I don't know where you joined the conversation at, but as if the active conversation mattered, the thread title & point makes the word 'interesting' the only relevant conversation.
Edit - I also just heard a rumour that BB used the explore bug this age. If this is true, all the more interesting! Can you confirm?
Not a bug if you're below the median.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
Awesome. If you got the strength to hold top spot(s) (I can't see charts atm), then you should abuse it while Bishop still says it's ok and keep that prov going tickly! :)
Anyone have anything interesting happen?
This topic is boring!
Edit: Pyro took it to war cause we knew we could mitigate the loses from your wave, which we took back 1800 acres, other option would have been you wanted another wave for CF.
Sorry about that, i have since found out we did take gold, but it was less than half you mentioned.
dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb
Spacing would have been better...Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
dumb .... da dumb.. dumb dumb!
I don't like how my friend DK has been portrayed in this thread.
Did Pyro and CR work out a CF agreement for after war or is round 2 in the works?
Imagine it to this beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ViF6JRNjTk
Dragnet style,...right on!Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight
Interestingg? I'm in vac mode so I don't have deep game emotions, but I did just finish a pint of Graeter's Strawberry Ice-Cream. We could've shown them all; me and my strawberry ice-cream....but it's all over now * sigh *
The "bug" isn't a terribly factor mid-late age, as it just costs a little more to do what you would otherwise do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
Its mainly a bug the first week of the age when you expect to deal with 2k acre provinces and instead deal with 3k acre provinces, or more importantly its an issue when other people plan on CF'ing and exploring right away not being the ideal strategy, and instead looking for wars. AMA and BB last age didn't communicate at all until both of us were in wars, since we both thought that an early war, and the sci and the +5k bonus would be more significant than randoming since cowing was "slowed" and we're considered 2 of the top 3 whoring minds, that seems reasonable.
As it turned out, cowing wasn't slowed at all and havoc got to walk away with an age win because they CF'd everyone but the 2 threats who relied on the devs announced changes to be implemented.
Not to mention the fact that somehow when we did fight havoc early, we couldn't succeed spells despite 5-7x their mod WPA and being mystic with all our WPA science allocated to magic, since that was a pretty integral part of our setup choice, to have that 200 to 10 wizard advantage.