Hostile Simians style

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

Yes, strategically speaking, this war was ours to win since day 3 or 4. I don't wanna repeat myelf too much. You were caught between hammer and anvil. As soon as it turned out that you ca't touch the hammer (me) and you can't break the anvil (my topfeeders), you were doomed. It's okay if you didn't see that.

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Alright "hammer". Keep pumping your ego. Looks like, despite your farming, we were doing pretty well for our self.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

Totally false. You disabled no one. The only guy you managed to 'chain' successfully was Mayson. That's because when he was being chained, he missed his army home by 8 hours. Then it was his first time being chained, and the releasing didn't go well. The 50 mill TB deficit only matters when your enemyemploys a strategy based on it. You never did, you kept hitting them, thus providing them more aid.

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Hmm... how many provinces do you have under 1k acres? How many provinces do you have with 50 mil+ TB deficits after deep chains?

We were focusing on deep chaining one province at a time to minimize GBP and opping other attackers. The graph alone shows our strategy wasn't completely ineffective.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

Your assumption was entirely correct. If you had beat our core, we would ahve withdrawn. Should you have had fought our core to a draw AND askedfor us to withdraw, we might have considered it. But the fact is that with banking help, our core beat yours fair and square. Surely you can see that. We started the war with all of our core smaller than yours, and by the end of the war most of our core was sitting on 1.8k acres or more. With offenses too. In the meantime, half your core was taken down to 120k nw.

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I'm confused about what you mean your "core". You mean the provinces sitting under 1k or those we didn't chain yet with under 100 NWPA? How about your attackers with -75mil trade balances who kept getting destroyed by our T/Ms?

Impressive core.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

See above. We were gaining land, nw and honor. It was YOU ho never surrendered.

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We ended the war pretty much the same land as we started. We were straight up beating you on uniques and honor gained. Excuse me Mitt Romney but you need to get your facts checked.

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Originally Posted by csarmi

What on eath are you talking abot? I never bragged about anything. Please tell me you're kidding man. Surely you don't wanna say that posting war summaries without commentaire is bragging? Cause I ahven't got a clue what else you could mean.

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Oh, I dunno, the constant BS that you were winning from the start? When no one one our side sees it that way at all?

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Originally Posted by Anri

You call me crazy if you want.

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You are crazy

There was a kingdom called ,
That one day got razed out of the blue.
They cried and they cried,
"Csarmi! How can we win without you?!"

"UNFAIR!" they did scream,
For their bank was their jewel,
And oh, did it gleam.
Their Utopia Charlie Sheen.

A war win, oh, how nice that would be,
Can't you see? Csarmi's up acres,
They would decree.

But no one cared in ,
Here, we shine our own shoe.
Good luck to you, and all you can do
I still think you're gloating.
So boo-hoo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anri

I dont know if its us or Csarmi to blame for what he put himself into or for us taking down an wide open bank without any protection at all.

I need to know if Csarmi beleived we would not hit him and why he did not get CF with me? Was he gunning to dominate and take our banks out after war?

All just jump on Simians for the hits, but there is way more to it. I blame the game itself mostly.

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You. Definitely you.

Don't blame the game, that just looks ridiculous.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

Kuhn, don't give him fuel pls. We have beat their core even...

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No arrogance involved here. I don't know how Csarmi is bragging/gloating at all.

Move along people.

budlightyear, dude, your bitterness shows through in every one of your posts in this thread.
when you go to war against a KD with a massive unbreakable, what do you expect to happen?
the bank shouldn't aid out as much as requested?
he shouldn't max rax and farm you?

Just because you underestimated the advantage of a bank in war, and couldn't do anything about it, does not make the war "BS."
nor does it justify his OOW razing, as you seem to keep insinuating.

and there's still nothing resembling gloating or bragging in csarmi's posts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

There was a kingdom called,
That one day got razed out of the blue.
They cried and they cried,
"Csarmi! How can we win without you?!"

"UNFAIR!" they did scream,
For their bank was their jewel,
And oh, did it gleam.
Their Utopia Charlie Sheen.

A war win, oh, how nice that would be,
Can't you see? Csarmi's up acres,
They would decree.

But no one cared in ,
Here, we shine our own shoe.
Good luck to you, and all you can do
I still think you're gloating.
So boo-hoo.

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We can force you to war?
Don't tell me we should give you free acre because of bank? We are not allow to war you because of bank?
Why won't you withdraw if you "think" this is happening?
Why you let the war drag?
You choose to war us because of confident of capable of doing something to us. Don't tell me you miss out 20k bank when you decide to attack to us.
The rest of us should give free acres away for the rest of the age because we have a bank?

I myself expect you guys withdraw after 3 day war, instead your guys din't. You guy fought hard that out of my expectation. for that i respect the kingdom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tetley

budlightyear, dude, your bitterness shows through in every one of your posts in this thread.
when you go to war against a KD with a massive unbreakable, what do you expect to happen?
the bank shouldn't aid out as much as requested?
he shouldn't max rax and farm you?

Just because you underestimated the advantage of a bank in war, and couldn't do anything about it, does not make the war "BS."
nor does it justify his OOW razing, as you seem to keep insinuating.

and there's still nothing resembling gloating or bragging in csarmi's posts.

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Well you're right that I'm bitter, but not because of why you think. They WD. If anything, I would be happy. I'm bitter because of the BS I see from the other side about our war/strategy.

1. I'm fine with him farming. But I don't expect him to claim that their KD was winning from the start despite the fact that their "core" was losing acres and NW, building up massive TB imbalances that ultimately would not be sustainable, while we only ended the war with us 1k acres down (guess who had the most acres gained in their KD... HINT: Not their "core")

2. It's not justifying OOW razing, I just don't care about it. Normally I would care a lot about OOW razing because it's unethical. I'm just making an argument for why I don't care about it.

3. I completely disagree with his analysis of the war/situation and I don't care to hear it. Reading his crap is equivalent to gloating/bragging for me. We're not running around bragging about our war win.

To Anri,

Leader of the Everlasting Monkeys called as Simians

I have slept on this, and I have an offer to make you. This is my last one, I won't go lower than this.
I'M doing this to be completely reasonable and to address your thoughts of 'greed'.

So, here goes:

- you gave me one single maxgain trad march on your Halfling (Apoplexia) for 2500 acres max. That puts me at about -5k, Apo at -1.7k and Calle at -3.7k (note that calle's acres are much less expensive than some 18-25-30k acre ones, due to the exploration formula)

- we agree on an ultimate EOA CF. Ultimate meaning that no matter what, our CF stands. No excuses, no circumstances, nothing would allow it to be broken. In-game CF is put in place.

- you apologize here for your actions, you may justify it as me being 'greedy' if you like. the apology is to both kingdoms for interfering in the war and to me specifically

- I will do my best to discourage people for taking actions against you for this ****-play (no I don't think I have much influence)

You said you wanted to be nice, reasonable and you're sorry these things happened. Here's the way to make it right, a reasonable offer in my book. I'm making it public because I have no IRC access right now and because this conflict has already got the attention of the whole server anyway.

Have a nice age,

Regards

Csarmi

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

Alright "hammer". Keep pumping your ego. Looks like, despite your farming, we were doing pretty well for our self.

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What has that got to do with ego. That's a metaphore.
I can rephrase it for you if that feels better. You were hit from above for about 4x4% hits every 7.2h hours. I call that a hammer because that keeps your big guys dow.

You have the "anvil" as the small provinces who can break your core and keep topfeeding you from below. You can't outgrow them because of the bottomfeeds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

Hmm... how many provinces do you have under 1k acres? How many provinces do you have with 50 mil+ TB deficits after deep chains?

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We had fewere provs under 1k than at warstart. 20-50 mill TB deficit is irrelevant.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

We were focusing on deep chaining one province at a time to minimize GBP and opping other attackers. The graph alone shows our strategy wasn't completely ineffective.

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That was your biggest mistake. You never managed to minimize GBP anywhere. You maximized GBP on those who had nothing to lose from having another 10 mill deficit as their debts were already unrepayable. I wouldn't call that a good strategy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

I'm confused about what you mean your "core". You mean the provinces sitting under 1k or those we didn't chain yet with under 100 NWPA? How about your attackers with -75mil trade balances who kept getting destroyed by our T/Ms?

Impressive core.

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Core = all the provs but me. Standard KD setup term. Our core grew on you. That's a fact.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

We ended the war pretty much the same land as we started. We were straight up beating you on uniques and honor gained. Excuse me Mitt Romney but you need to get your facts checked.

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We started the war with much less honor than you (which is no surprise as you had 3/4, we had 0/1 ww). Last time I checked, we were leading by 2k honor on you. We gained 11k acres and you lost 8k.

When they 4xrazed me, you guys did a maxgain wave which we never retaliated, then you took the land bonus, I suppose.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

Oh, I dunno, the constant BS that you were winning from the start? When no one one our side sees it that way at all?

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What constant BS. My patience is running out on you. I was never disrespectful in any way in our war. Once the war ended, you started talking BS here on the forums about "how I'M gloating constantly".

After THAT, I pointed out the fact that we were in a winning situation for quite a long time now.

You should get your timing right, at least.

And anyone on the forums, INCLUDING Simians, I'm sure, would back me up on that FACT. I didn't point it out to gloat, or to hurt you or anything. I pointed it out because YOU claimed that WE kept on fighting stubbornly when YOU were losing badly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

Well you're right that I'm bitter, but not because of why you think. They WD. If anything, I would be happy. I'm bitter because of the BS I see from the other side about our war/strategy.

1. I'm fine with him farming. But I don't expect him to claim that their KD was winning from the start despite the fact that their "core" was losing acres and NW, building up massive TB imbalances that ultimately would not be sustainable, while we only ended the war with us 1k acres down (guess who had the most acres gained in their KD... HINT: Not their "core")

2. It's not justifying OOW razing, I just don't care about it. Normally I would care a lot about OOW razing because it's unethical. I'm just making an argument for why I don't care about it.

3. I completely disagree with his analysis of the war/situation and I don't care to hear it. Reading his crap is equivalent to gloating/bragging for me. We're not running around bragging about our war win.

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STOP lying or misinterpreting facts or I dunno what.
1) Our core wasn't losing neither acres nor nw.
2) You don't have to care about it. It's not your fault this ever happened.
3) Check your facts straight. Read the topic. Start at the beginning. YOU claimed I was bragging constantly BEFORE I ever even spoke anything about war strategies here. You started talking BS about the war and I put the facts straight. For that, I get called by you to be gloating. Now that is RICH!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Budlightyear

There was a kingdom called ,
That one day got razed out of the blue.
They cried and they cried,
"Csarmi! How can we win without you?!"

"UNFAIR!" they did scream,
For their bank was their jewel,
And oh, did it gleam.
Their Utopia Charlie Sheen.

A war win, oh, how nice that would be,
Can't you see? Csarmi's up acres,
They would decree.

But no one cared in ,
Here, we shine our own shoe.
Good luck to you, and all you can do
I still think you're gloating.
So boo-hoo.

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You don't go runnign arounf bragging about your ww? What is this then? You got an undeserved ww and you have the gall to post such crap about it here? You're almost lower than Simians... and that's a big thing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

To Anri,

Leader of the Everlasting Monkeys called as Simians

I have slept on this, and I have an offer to make you. This is my last one, I won't go lower than this.
I'M doing this to be completely reasonable and to address your thoughts of 'greed'.

So, here goes:

- you gave me one single maxgain trad march on your Halfling (Apoplexia) for 2500 acres max. That puts me at about -5k, Apo at -1.7k and Calle at -3.7k (note that calle's acres are much less expensive than some 18-25-30k acre ones, due to the exploration formula)

- we agree on an ultimate EOA CF. Ultimate meaning that no matter what, our CF stands. No excuses, no circumstances, nothing would allow it to be broken. In-game CF is put in place.

- you apologize here for your actions, you may justify it as me being 'greedy' if you like. the apology is to both kingdoms for interfering in the war and to me specifically

- I will do my best to discourage people for taking actions against you for this ****-play (no I don't think I have much influence)

You said you wanted to be nice, reasonable and you're sorry these things happened. Here's the way to make it right, a reasonable offer in my book. I'm making it public because I have no IRC access right now and because this conflict has already got the attention of the whole server anyway.

Have a nice age,

Regards

Csarmi

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Im sry this is the way it has to go down. You razed back x6 and you want more. We evened out the playing field. You stayed in war for longer then you had too. On day 7 you could have won.
All you needed to do was draft/train up. You choose to stay on high peasant count and having an income on 4-5 mill gc per tick with ToG. (I think i count low). You choose to keep a real war that turned into a farmwar going because you aimed at #1. In my book you do not deserve to obtain #1 in such ways. I dont know for how much longer you would been able to keep the war going but to me it was rather clear that you avoided the auto-wd to keep farming for a few days more. The war was won but you choose strategically not to end it because you wanted more acres. You say you did not do it intentionally but both Calle, Apoplexia and you played for #1. We will not give back acres you took from a farming stance of mind. This would never have happend if you had trained up and got the win by day 7-8. You choose to be greedy and you suffered for it. Why would the server just hand out a crown to someone that choose to farm when the war can indeed be won.

I dont get that!

We will not give you a free hit. The moment you hit us we will raze you down with us.
There is no other answer to sort this out. I have offered EoA CF because i think we took away a good amount of acres and evened out the playing field. I would probably have given you a free hit if it were not for you using x6 generals before doing any diplomatic attempts and using the x6 generals despite of knowing it probably would get you dispended.

I have my re-offer and its EoA cf, i think we better start fighting otherwise.

We have our stance and you have yours. You can cry wolf in here all you want and try to get people to GB or hit us. What you did was not okey from the position you were in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by csarmi

To Anri,

Leader of the Everlasting Monkeys called as Simians

I have slept on this, and I have an offer to make you. This is my last one, I won't go lower than this.
I'M doing this to be completely reasonable and to address your thoughts of 'greed'.

So, here goes:

- you gave me one single maxgain trad march on your Halfling (Apoplexia) for 2500 acres max. That puts me at about -5k, Apo at -1.7k and Calle at -3.7k (note that calle's acres are much less expensive than some 18-25-30k acre ones, due to the exploration formula)

- we agree on an ultimate EOA CF. Ultimate meaning that no matter what, our CF stands. No excuses, no circumstances, nothing would allow it to be broken. In-game CF is put in place.

- you apologize here for your actions, you may justify it as me being 'greedy' if you like. the apology is to both kingdoms for interfering in the war and to me specifically

- I will do my best to discourage people for taking actions against you for this ****-play (no I don't think I have much influence)

You said you wanted to be nice, reasonable and you're sorry these things happened. Here's the way to make it right, a reasonable offer in my book. I'm making it public because I have no IRC access right now and because this conflict has already got the attention of the whole server anyway.

Have a nice age,

Regards

Csarmi

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Csarmi, publicly asking Anri to apologize is what doomed your suggestion. I think you know this, or atleast, you should know this. C'mon...

Anri, there was no way i could force a win by DAy 7. Check your facts. Check out this war chart, it's being made by a 3rd party I think...

http://www.******************.eu/vei...ve-wars?id=662

Also, you can cross-check it with the full papers I posted earlier.

http://pastebin.com/zBBNVbVm

Some highlights for you:

1) War start on July 14 YR7

2) The first two days is spent repelling their chains and getting activity up. They keep trying to op me hard, doing some (but not meaningful) damage. Fight is pretty much even, but the fact that their chains failed and that the bank is untouched puts us somewhat ahead, I think. WE are about 7.3 mill, them 5.3 mill.

3) We start to do some successful successful chains between Day 2 and Day 5. They keep trying to chain our small guys and do some very good damage to our big Faery (who was at 3.5k at some point and threatened to pull away) and our big Human (closing on 6k acres). At the end of this period, they take down our Faery from 3.5k to 500 acres. I suppose that (and the fact that they have our 6k human almost broken down) makes them think they have the upper head. We're doing much better, actually. They keep trying other chains, but we manage to fight those off with gold and soldiers. Our chains do work, however, we can't control the chained ones offense in all cases, but we can control their nw. By the end of this period we are 7.2m vs 4.7m, with one prov doomed to go down.

3) Day 5-7 they take our 6k human down, but we manage to control the fall (with tons of aid obviously). At this point, our nw starts growing steadily (after the hit). I'm trying my best to keep my prov as much as possible, without my kd suffering (that is, when someone needed aid, i helped as much as I could, but I tried (unsuccessfully) to reach 50% of KD nw (to have flexible monarch switching). At the 7 day mark we are 7.4 mill, them 4.7mill, me having about 3.6 mill nw or so.

4) Between Day 8-10 we start to pull away very fast, they are running out of economy, they have lost all the acres they gaine don our big human. We are running bad on economy too, but by the last day of the war, the first time in this long one, I'm up on 550k pezz (usually had 250-350k), I don't get plagued anymore (took down their UD) and they seem to be falling free. On day 8-9 it becomes apparent for us that we will be able to win this on nw if they keep fighting on. We do NOT make an effort to prevent it OR to achieve it either. we're growing so fast and them are shrinking so fast that I think there was about 1 day left of the war when

There Came the Simians.

Now please tell me at what point of this war I could and I SHOULD just train up and claim the win asap? First time we been in real position to pump me was about day 9...