AMA vs sanct round 2

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

I'm not going to argue about definition details. If you check game rules there is "spirit on game", same going about deals. Our deal was made for avoid situations 2vs1. Giving notice few minutes before/after your ally kingdom start rob us is clear abuse deal because put us in situation 2vs1. Whew some one rob me i'm waving him or do something other in return. Its not hide or dodge, its pay back. Its why we had few weeks hostile with TFC last age. Now kd name is different but situation is similar.
Insist from havoc notice was given only make situation harder for solve for both kds. Its clear we wont CF sanctuary now after all dmg they made to us for get waved next minute from Havoc. Hostile will continue till we get war.

Its legit hostile, there was dragon exchanges, cow hits and both kds have in game hostile.

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Last age we argue over stealing being hostile action etc.

1[14:19] <goodz> we have similar army to you now. You are likely stuck in a hostile for a long time that you have been opping us out of so we don't really mind hitting into it. I think that your in a weak position atm and that 1 free hit is more then fair since it really does nothing. For me the point of the hit is because guys are complaining that we let you farm us and then give free nap
01[14:19] <goodz> if there is a particular province you prefer us to hit i am fine with it, i dont really care about gains
[14:19] <Elit> man
[14:19] <Elit> if you hit us
01[14:19] <goodz> morale is important :p
[14:19] <Elit> its going to be long long grudge
[14:19] <Elit> agains new mercy leadership
[14:19] <Elit> your pick
[14:19] <Elit> we just waved
01[14:20] <goodz> but still opping us, even right before you waved...
[14:20] <Elit> and i wont have problem to wave mercy in active hostile next age
[14:20] <Elit> its your call
01[14:20] <goodz> situations reversed if we are opping you out of hostile you likely would not be happy :)
01[14:20] <goodz> difference is you engaged us will you were hostile

(this is in reference to elit claiming in an active hostile will stealing from us to fund his hostile)

Anyway I just strongly dislike the way all my diplo with them has gone as imo they play lame / expect to be treated not as they treat others. So if we want to talk about your hostile with TFC I think we should discuss how my KD payed for your dragon(s) will you claimed hostile status!

It's adorable how you cover up your incompetence. Absolutely precious.

It is not possible to define "a hostile", any more than it is possible to make a full set of clauses to prevent all dirty play in ceasefires. And in many situations both sides won't agree on what is fair anyway.

The only clause I'll really agree to is "don't be a dick", and this clause itself can only be made with someone you trust not to redefine the term "being a dick" on the fly. Things that qualify as being a dick:

* Noticing a kingdom while they're in war/hostile (always prevented by "no notice in hostile/war" clauses - NNIHW - now).
* Noticing/waving a kingdom right after they leave a war (this depends on current rules - the past few ages you could explore a bit in postwar so a notice right after war wouldn't be dickish).
* Noticing a kingdom right before they enter another war/hostile (a sometimes-popular way to get around NNIHW clauses).
* Robbing, waving, razing a kingdom not in your range (generally, declare range) to an excessive degree or to hurt them without benefiting yourself. (Raze waving a bigger or smaller kingdom just to hurt them would qualify, for instance. Robbing a kingdom a lot and refusing to ceasefire would qualify to a lesser degree, as would not settling for one free wave before ceasefiring.)

Mom made it quite clear they were going "full dick" when they gave Rage notice right OOW, then refused to ceasefire for anything less than multiple free waves and an eoa nap. So, obviously, a clause of this type would not work with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goodz

Last age we argue over stealing being hostile action etc.

1[14:19] <goodz> we have similar army to you now. You are likely stuck in a hostile for a long time that you have been opping us out of so we don't really mind hitting into it. I think that your in a weak position atm and that 1 free hit is more then fair since it really does nothing. For me the point of the hit is because guys are complaining that we let you farm us and then give free nap
01[14:19] <goodz> if there is a particular province you prefer us to hit i am fine with it, i dont really care about gains
[14:19] <Elit> man
[14:19] <Elit> if you hit us
01[14:19] <goodz> morale is important :p
[14:19] <Elit> its going to be long long grudge
[14:19] <Elit> agains new mercy leadership
[14:19] <Elit> your pick
[14:19] <Elit> we just waved
01[14:20] <goodz> but still opping us, even right before you waved...
[14:20] <Elit> and i wont have problem to wave mercy in active hostile next age
[14:20] <Elit> its your call
01[14:20] <goodz> situations reversed if we are opping you out of hostile you likely would not be happy :)
01[14:20] <goodz> difference is you engaged us will you were hostile

(this is in reference to elit claiming in an active hostile will stealing from us to fund his hostile)

Anyway I just strongly dislike the way all my diplo with them has gone as imo they play lame / expect to be treated not as they treat others. So if we want to talk about your hostile with TFC I think we should discuss how my KD payed for your dragon(s) will you claimed hostile status!

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Last age mercy robed from us few times during age and for this we made same in return. You joined mercy late on age last age. We robed from mercy and you did noting, diplo/hits on us. Moment when we launch full wave on TFC and gave them button your become brave and start ask for free hits and retals.

This age when you double your cows we was in position to get free wave from you, but when you propose CF we gave it very easy. You agree about giving us free hits for CF but i gave up hits for keep good relation and gave you chance (new leader in kd) to prove your ability. All what we got in return was alot complain all age and now dirty play. When you spend 6 weeks for pump you dont need your alliance mates to rob us so we cant train/prepare for war you. when they made it if you had any self respect and confidence you can simple reset notice till hostile is solved.


[20:18] <Elit> tbh its look like correct time for us to notice you
[20:18] <Elit> if we can make some other deal
[20:18] <Elit> *cant make
[20:18] <goodz> okay well we noticed a KD about 24h ago but you may notice us. Likely will have to wait for our next hostile/war
[20:18] <goodz> though
[20:19] <goodz> but i see no reason we can't come up with a deal anyway
[20:19] <Elit> we wont hit you in hostile or war for sure
[20:19] <Elit> its clear
[20:19] <goodz> what were you thinking
[20:19] <goodz> deal wise
[20:20] <Elit> well for you is most important to keep your bigs
[20:20] <Elit> and you asked early for long cf deal
[20:20] <Elit> maybe we can trade few hits on core for long cf
[20:20] <goodz> yes we see no reason to war the top kingdoms at this age in game
[20:21] <goodz> let me check you out one moment
[20:21] <Elit> k
[20:21] <goodz> how many hits
[20:21] <goodz> we may be willing to give like 3-4 on our provinces under 2k acres
[20:22] <goodz> but quite frankly we don't want to give any free hits on our guys with no targets to attack the acres back
[20:22] <Elit> you have alot kds in range for attack
[20:22] <Elit> and war
[20:22] <Elit> how long cf you want?
[20:23] <goodz> hmm doesnt matter i dont think war becomes benneficial until ~150k acres
[20:23] <goodz> growing 2k acres a day which is about 2 weeks
[20:23] <Elit> so cf till yr4?
[20:24] <goodz> anytime between 4 and 8 would be fine with me if you have preferences based on your current cf expires
[20:26] <Elit> ok
[20:28] <Elit> lets start with yr4 + 48h notice. But you cant give us notice if there is alredy gaven/or we give notice to another abs/hoh kd. till its hostile+war/post war is over
[20:28] <Elit> same for us, we wont be able to give you notice if you alredy gave other kd
[20:28] <goodz> okay
[20:29] <Elit> till its re-cf
[20:29] <goodz> that works for me
[20:29] <Elit> about hits
[20:29] <Elit> i dont want to be greedy
[20:29] <Elit> you are 60k land
[20:29] <Elit> 1% is 600 acres
[20:29] <Elit> look resonable?
[20:29] <goodz> tbh we probably won't offer much for hits but we can see :)
[20:29] <goodz> it depends where you want to take them from
[20:29] <goodz> if its provinces under 2k you can have the 3 free hits to get ~500
[20:29] <goodz> if you want it from our guys on 2.x l
[20:29] <goodz> i will have to say no
[20:30] <Elit> ok we wont hit big provs if its bad for you
[20:30] <Elit> actualy
[20:30] <Elit> i will give up hits
[20:30] <Elit> prefer to keep good relation
[20:31] <Elit> and its dont matter few acres more or less
[20:31] <goodz> :) we will behave
[20:31] <Elit> so hope you wont act in rturn lame too :P

They seriously gave him the kingdom? goodz is in charge?

I certainly hope you people are all robed. I shudder to think I might be having an internet conversation with people who are disrobed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

Last age mercy robed from us few times during age and for this we made same in return. You joined mercy late on age last age. We robed from mercy and you did noting, diplo/hits on us. Moment when we launch full wave on TFC and gave them button your become brave and start ask for free hits and retals.

This age when you double your cows we was in position to get free wave from you, but when you propose CF we gave it very easy. You agree about giving us free hits for CF but i gave up hits for keep good relation and gave you chance (new leader in kd) to prove your ability. All what we got in return was alot complain all age and now dirty play. When you spend 6 weeks for pump you dont need your alliance mates to rob us so we cant train/prepare for war you. when they made it if you had any self respect and confidence you can simple reset notice till hostile is solved.


[20:18] <Elit> tbh its look like correct time for us to notice you
[20:18] <Elit> if we can make some other deal
[20:18] <Elit> *cant make
[20:18] <goodz> okay well we noticed a KD about 24h ago but you may notice us. Likely will have to wait for our next hostile/war
[20:18] <goodz> though
[20:19] <goodz> but i see no reason we can't come up with a deal anyway
[20:19] <Elit> we wont hit you in hostile or war for sure
[20:19] <Elit> its clear
[20:19] <goodz> what were you thinking
[20:19] <goodz> deal wise
[20:20] <Elit> well for you is most important to keep your bigs
[20:20] <Elit> and you asked early for long cf deal
[20:20] <Elit> maybe we can trade few hits on core for long cf
[20:20] <goodz> yes we see no reason to war the top kingdoms at this age in game
[20:21] <goodz> let me check you out one moment
[20:21] <Elit> k
[20:21] <goodz> how many hits
[20:21] <goodz> we may be willing to give like 3-4 on our provinces under 2k acres
[20:22] <goodz> but quite frankly we don't want to give any free hits on our guys with no targets to attack the acres back
[20:22] <Elit> you have alot kds in range for attack
[20:22] <Elit> and war
[20:22] <Elit> how long cf you want?
[20:23] <goodz> hmm doesnt matter i dont think war becomes benneficial until ~150k acres
[20:23] <goodz> growing 2k acres a day which is about 2 weeks
[20:23] <Elit> so cf till yr4?
[20:24] <goodz> anytime between 4 and 8 would be fine with me if you have preferences based on your current cf expires
[20:26] <Elit> ok
[20:28] <Elit> lets start with yr4 + 48h notice. But you cant give us notice if there is alredy gaven/or we give notice to another abs/hoh kd. till its hostile+war/post war is over
[20:28] <Elit> same for us, we wont be able to give you notice if you alredy gave other kd
[20:28] <goodz> okay
[20:29] <Elit> till its re-cf
[20:29] <goodz> that works for me
[20:29] <Elit> about hits
[20:29] <Elit> i dont want to be greedy
[20:29] <Elit> you are 60k land
[20:29] <Elit> 1% is 600 acres
[20:29] <Elit> look resonable?
[20:29] <goodz> tbh we probably won't offer much for hits but we can see :)
[20:29] <goodz> it depends where you want to take them from
[20:29] <goodz> if its provinces under 2k you can have the 3 free hits to get ~500
[20:29] <goodz> if you want it from our guys on 2.x l
[20:29] <goodz> i will have to say no
[20:30] <Elit> ok we wont hit big provs if its bad for you
[20:30] <Elit> actualy
[20:30] <Elit> i will give up hits
[20:30] <Elit> prefer to keep good relation
[20:31] <Elit> and its dont matter few acres more or less
[20:31] <goodz> :) we will behave
[20:31] <Elit> so hope you wont act in rturn lame too :P

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I disagree.

I don't think you could have gotten a free wave. I would simply have delayed both of us until you CFed. But yes you could have a had a few free hits in year 2 in exchange for our YR4 deal. Any exchange would have prevented you vulturing rage which made cf you gained as good for you as it was for us likely!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

This age when you double your cows we was in position to get free wave from you, but when you propose CF we gave it very easy.

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You gave them free CF easily so you can have a week to prepare to vulture Rage, it was not done out of kindness or for "good relations." Nice try on the propaganda though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdorje

I certainly hope you people are all robed. I shudder to think I might be having an internet conversation with people who are disrobed.

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+1
you'd be surprised.

Someone sum this up for me in 5 words or less, I cannot be bothered reading all this bull****.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdorje

Mom made it quite clear they were going "full dick" when they gave Rage notice right OOW, then refused to ceasefire for anything less than multiple free waves and an eoa nap. So, obviously, a clause of this type would not work with them.

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Rage notice last age BB after his war with mercy and its was perfect legit for ABS. We did same. None robed rage when they was oow. Only difference from last age BB and this age Rage is they have his alliance for help them. First i had werid chat with ASF where he basicaly told: if you dont cf us we will farm out to Sanctuary. When its dont worked there was another werid chat with Dorje.

[18:32] <AquaSeaFoam> ok, well i will see what can be arranged in abs. if sanc agrees to war us, then maybe we'll come back to you for a new deal
[18:34] <Elit> if you want to war sanc you better get in range for begin :P
[18:35] <Elit> and put some sci or its wont be much fun for you :D
[18:35] <AquaSeaFoam> true. it'd be easier for us to prepare for sanc i guess if we had a longer cf with you
[18:35] <AquaSeaFoam> but nothing is set with sanc yet anyway
[18:38] <Elit> i dont want to be mean but this convo is going to wrong direction, If we keep it you can end asking me to talk dorje for cf you :)
[18:38] <AquaSeaFoam> haha
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[07:01] <Proteus> same reason i forgot to make no notice in war clause with you
[07:02] <Elit> y its what suprise me most
..........
[07:26] <Proteus> vulture isnt determind by how kd being vultured uses its pool
[07:26] <Proteus> being vultured is when you give notice to someone right after their war
..........
[20:27] <Proteus> ok then i will retal war you and abs will vulture you after
[20:27] <Proteus> hoh will not extend cf with you either

[20:27] <Proteus> that you are asking for now
[20:28] <Elit> when you start talk for hoh?
[20:28] <Proteus> i dont talk for hoh
[20:28] <Proteus> but theyre my ally and they told me you want extension
[20:28] <Proteus> so i will ask them not to extend you
[20:28] <Proteus> and since they care about me i am sure they will be happy to help out
[20:29] <Elit> well its not your job
[20:29] <Elit> now you wont get any deal for sure
.............

[22:30] <dorje> you wanna help us land drop 70k acres to declare (Mansour)?
[22:30] <Elit> only in real hostile/war :)
[22:31] <dorje> you wanna war us in 3 days and leave rage alone!?
[22:31] <dorje> you'd have huge advantage, we have no savings!
[22:31] <Elit> give us few free hits on your cow :)
[22:31] <Elit> why you care for rage so much
[22:32] <Elit> i mean its not your kd
[22:34] <dorje> they're allies
[22:34] <dorje> and we ****ed them by ceasefiring you to let you vulture them
[22:34] <dorje> so now i feel i can't stand by and watch
[22:34] <Elit> you mean you fuked for let them play 1vs1
[22:34] <Elit> and its need to be 2vs1?
[22:35] <Elit> and how you going to protect us if rage make same vs us in revers situation?
[22:35] <Elit> or its ok when its not abs kd?
[22:35] <Elit> ASF posted in form 1 day ago
[22:35] <dorje> by agreeing with you now on vulturing rules
[22:35] <Elit> ABS made rule for 1vs1
[22:35] <dorje> yes, i'm not proposing to stop 1vs1
[22:35] <dorje> what i'm proposing is that vulturing should not be done this age

A cat died.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elitbg

Rage notice last age BB after his war with mercy and its was perfect legit for ABS. We did same. None robed rage when they was oow. Only difference from last age BB and this age Rage is they have his alliance for help them. First i had werid chat with ASF where he basicaly told: if you dont cf us we will farm out to Sanctuary. When its dont worked there was another werid chat with Dorje.

[18:32] <AquaSeaFoam> ok, well i will see what can be arranged in abs. if sanc agrees to war us, then maybe we'll come back to you for a new deal
[18:34] <Elit> if you want to war sanc you better get in range for begin :P
[18:35] <Elit> and put some sci or its wont be much fun for you :D
[18:35] <AquaSeaFoam> true. it'd be easier for us to prepare for sanc i guess if we had a longer cf with you
[18:35] <AquaSeaFoam> but nothing is set with sanc yet anyway
[18:38] <Elit> i dont want to be mean but this convo is going to wrong direction, If we keep it you can end asking me to talk dorje for cf you :)
[18:38] <AquaSeaFoam> haha
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[07:01] <Proteus> same reason i forgot to make no notice in war clause with you
[07:02] <Elit> y its what suprise me most
..........
[07:26] <Proteus> vulture isnt determind by how kd being vultured uses its pool
[07:26] <Proteus> being vultured is when you give notice to someone right after their war
..........
[20:27] <Proteus> ok then i will retal war you and abs will vulture you after
[20:27] <Proteus> hoh will not extend cf with you either

[20:27] <Proteus> that you are asking for now
[20:28] <Elit> when you start talk for hoh?
[20:28] <Proteus> i dont talk for hoh
[20:28] <Proteus> but theyre my ally and they told me you want extension
[20:28] <Proteus> so i will ask them not to extend you
[20:28] <Proteus> and since they care about me i am sure they will be happy to help out
[20:29] <Elit> well its not your job
[20:29] <Elit> now you wont get any deal for sure
.............

[22:30] <dorje> you wanna help us land drop 70k acres to declare (Mansour)?
[22:30] <Elit> only in real hostile/war :)
[22:31] <dorje> you wanna war us in 3 days and leave rage alone!?
[22:31] <dorje> you'd have huge advantage, we have no savings!
[22:31] <Elit> give us few free hits on your cow :)
[22:31] <Elit> why you care for rage so much
[22:32] <Elit> i mean its not your kd
[22:34] <dorje> they're allies
[22:34] <dorje> and we ****ed them by ceasefiring you to let you vulture them
[22:34] <dorje> so now i feel i can't stand by and watch
[22:34] <Elit> you mean you fuked for let them play 1vs1
[22:34] <Elit> and its need to be 2vs1?
[22:35] <Elit> and how you going to protect us if rage make same vs us in revers situation?
[22:35] <Elit> or its ok when its not abs kd?
[22:35] <Elit> ASF posted in form 1 day ago
[22:35] <dorje> by agreeing with you now on vulturing rules
[22:35] <Elit> ABS made rule for 1vs1
[22:35] <dorje> yes, i'm not proposing to stop 1vs1
[22:35] <dorje> what i'm proposing is that vulturing should not be done this age

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Giving kd notice after EOW is a di** move. The reason we did it to BeastBlood/Pulse/Flogger was for revenge. The previous age flogger had farmed BB's gc to baka in bio which had enabled to double team Rage into our fight with Fury/Psychward. Had they been some neutral kingdom like cats/leadpipe/whoever, it would not have happened. The last time you lead a top kingdom and competed in the charts was when you lead dreams in age 51. Your last action that age was to double Rage with BIO after you clearly noticed us first, your kd talked massive s**t in forums and then when it was clear you'd be farmed/embarassed you decided to call in help but you were *STILL* farmed. Obviously you were so sore about it that you reissued notice at EOA to suicide raze Rage's cow after it had slayed 3+ dragons in a double hostile for the benefit of this kingdom. This action had 0 strategic motive as it would not drop Rage from its position in charts nor let you move up a position...classic grudge move and proof of how upset you were about it. And guess what was the first thing you did when you were leading a kd that was competing in the charts (you took a break from age 52-until this age from the top), you vultured us after our fight. Obviously that was the only opportunity you had to ever engage us in a situation where you would not be farmed as our setup is vastly stronger if we have time to pump or even prepare with military training. It's going to be really funny when you jettison relations with everyone and fail to win the age as you made enemies with everyone but gained nothing for in exchange. Outside of playing in a top alliance relations are EVERYTHING.

And FYI there is nothing wrong with the logs you posted of our conversation. You vultured us after a war with a good kingdom. It is perfectly fine for us to retal war you and then one of our allies vulturing you back. You vultured us, why do you think you are immune from being vultured yourself. Wake up elitbg, you do not deserve any special treatment. If you treat someone in a lame way you will get the same thing back which is what those logs were all about. But of course you wanted to vulture us then and not have anyone vulture you after as you are oh-so-special.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Wake up elitbg, you do not deserve any special treatment.

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This hurt! I'm really feel special :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Giving kd notice after EOW is a di** move. The reason we did it to BeastBlood/Pulse/Flogger was for revenge. The previous age flogger had farmed BB's gc to baka in bio which had enabled to double team Rage into our fight with Fury/Psychward. Had they been some neutral kingdom like cats/leadpipe/whoever, it would not have happened. The last time you lead a top kingdom and competed in the charts was when you lead dreams in age 51. Your last action that age was to double Rage with BIO after you clearly noticed us first, your kd talked massive s**t in forums and then when it was clear you'd be farmed/embarassed you decided to call in help but you were *STILL* farmed. Obviously you were so sore about it that you reissued notice at EOA to suicide raze Rage's cow after it had slayed 3+ dragons in a double hostile for the benefit of this kingdom. This action had 0 strategic motive as it would not drop Rage from its position in charts nor let you move up a position...classic grudge move and proof of how upset you were about it. And guess what was the first thing you did when you were leading a kd that was competing in the charts (you took a break from age 52-until this age from the top), you vultured us after our fight. Obviously that was the only opportunity you had to ever engage us in a situation where you would not be farmed as our setup is vastly stronger if we have time to pump or even prepare with military training. It's going to be really funny when you jettison relations with everyone and fail to win the age as you made enemies with everyone but gained nothing for in exchange. Outside of playing in a top alliance relations are EVERYTHING.

And FYI there is nothing wrong with the logs you posted of our conversation. You vultured us after a war with a good kingdom. It is perfectly fine for us to retal war you and then one of our allies vulturing you back. You vultured us, why do you think you are immune from being vultured yourself. Wake up elitbg, you do not deserve any special treatment. If you treat someone in a lame way you will get the same thing back which is what those logs were all about. But of course you wanted to vulture us then and not have anyone vulture you after as you are oh-so-special.

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Translation: Basically we're gon gangbang u before eoa.
#absalom

Ive been rooting for AMA all through this but i have 1 question.

Why don't u just war mercy as you're 7 million NW larger, way more pumped and have cow advantage?