At least someone has moved on to the final stage of grief. Now we just need everyone else to catch on to the process. ;)
Printable View
At least someone has moved on to the final stage of grief. Now we just need everyone else to catch on to the process. ;)
Lol, i said from the beginning this doesn't affect me personally. Nobody in my kingdom is part of a previously whitelisted couple. I just hate to see people quit the game. I'm a sucker for sob stories
When the system launched, the game had ~7100 people signed up. The game still has ~7100 people signed up.
It launched with ~7100 people eager to start a new age. You now have ~1000 people who are seriously displeased. I would like to point out that this game does not exist because it's being supported, but because people PLAY it. Always keep that in mind. There have been several serious requests to you to reconsider the way the restrictions affect wars; I strongly recommend you listen and try to fix it for everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
As for Bishop's response to my previous post, no I really have no idea what kind of cheating goes on. I do however have people in my network who might be able to assist you in creating a more non-game related anti cheat mechanism....
It's not 1000 people. I'll bet my modship.
there's no way 1000 people are legit couples.
Will you bet your faery kingdom?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Bet your house imo, easy money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Shadow27: once we collect real world data we can tweak the system. We did collect about a month of data already, but that was without people adapting to the change.
Heh Who would wanna have that? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by E_Boko
Palem would. He does have a mini following of faeries too...I probably would be miffed if in war I got hit by 20 faeries using NM, then NS, then have them all quad me.
instead of flaming here, go make some suggestion http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...f-normal/page5 so we can start something.
thanks ;)
I'm "signed up"
but I don't play
I question the futility of the problem. What exactly is being called cheating here? What kind of unfair advantage would same IP shared interaction bring to the table? And how is this advantage any different to a well organised kingdom with good communications?
There is also the futility of the proposed solution. What about multi IP connections? I get 32 IP address with my fibre link... does this mean I am allowed to run 32 provinces, all interacting with each other? Don't you think this will just heighten the rewards from the real cheaters?
A fabled solution to a non-problem.
wait, does it include intel? i.e. my gf is t/m who gathers intel on an entire KD for war...accordingly she ops every prov for intel...does that mean i then cannot attack any prov over there? and for how long?
if so one of us can't play by process of it wouldn't make any sense to play if you can't conduct ops or attacks...
I see obviously it includes intel gathering.
Well, I'm not going to use hateful terminology, but this is pretty awful, especially mid-age if you happen to be a legitimate couple living in the same house, and super-especially if one is t/m and one is attacker. I could see how you could figure this out if both were t/m (divide enemy provs and work on different provs during war), and maybe if both were attacker (just pray that you didn't both want to attack the same target within 3 days of each other), but even that is a stretch. But I have no idea how we can operate for the rest of this age if I can't attack any prov on which she has either gathered intel or cast greed in the last three days...there is no feasible solution.
I'm not going to get over-angry about it, but there really is no way that we both can continue playing, or at least certainly not in the same KD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_Bitter
To quote a mod....DING DING DING!!! Penalized that honest players, and as many people have stated, you cheaters are STILL going to find a way to cheat. Just remember something Bishop...when you outlaw guns...only outlaws will have guns. Think about it.
As a former longtime user of these boards and this game (known as Solaris3k1, DarkOne, amongst other names) this change appears very poorly thought out to me.
As most long time players (and I'm sure you admins know) know, the game has shrunk dramatically in recent years. I've been involved in customer service for a long time, and from a client value standpoint, this is a great way to lose more customers, or have potential players say, "Eh, screw this."
In my current kingdom, and previous kingdoms, I'd convince real life friends to start playing. They would play on their own computers on their own accounts and while we would interact at times (as far as one person gets intel, the other attacks) we would not be fooling around on one another's account. Not once have I been involved in X-logging, and I've been playing off and on since mid-2001.
If you had done this back in 2005 when I was fresh to college, you would have been out 6 players as I would have quit, my three friends that I got into the game would have quit, and so would have 2 other people in the same dorm that played. Why? Mainly because we said, "Hey, we all play this game, let's get in the same kingdom." Well balls to that with your current change.
If you want to foster a community, you're doing a great job of alienating your players.
As of now, if I want to get someone introduced to the game, I have to do everything remotely if I'm going to aide them up at all.
Furthermore, I have co-workers who play the game, guess I can't log in to work anymore. The way you've released the changes is terrible by the way, you guys really need to rethink this.
Your answer to people who have issues due to the way that their network is set up is honestly the some of the worst handling of customer issues that I've EVER seen, and that includes EA/Origin support.
Great if you're not at war and chaining or opping a province heavily.Quote:
trying another target
Only way you can get to uto is via proxy? Well sucks to be you.Quote:
disabling proxying (e.g., in your browser)
YES! Brilliant! Get TWO net connections so you can play this text based game on one of them. Alright, I'll do it if you'll pay it as I am paying for your server costs with my ad click throughs, my credit purchases and free PR.Quote:
using a different internet connection to play the game
Not always an option. In my location, I have the choice of 2 ISPs as far as high speed net goes. I can pay twice as much for the other one, get worse service, oh, and then my net gets shut off because I can't pay for it. Alright, how about YOU guys pay for it. Sound like a plan?Quote:
finding a better ISP
Unless it's your own proxy, not a great option. How often do you like changing server wide settings for one user? Oh, you guys DON'T like doing that. Well why would you create a system that would force others into that situation?Quote:
getting the people who run the proxy to setup XFF headers, then let us know about it
Your answer to customers having problems is that the customer has to figure it out.
Honestly guys, rethink the elimination of the whitelist. Cheaters will find a way to cheat, what you're doing now is punishing legitimate players who play with other people they know. Do you not want more pageviews? Do you not want people playing the game?
What you're doing is effectively giving the finger to customers who either due to situation or circumstance share an IP with another player. Terrible idea guys. Seriously.
You know what I find so astonishing....Is when Mehul owned both of games Earth2025 and Utopia...he DID do white listing. Oh did I mention that Earth was 10x the players base, if not more, at that point in time? He never complained that it took too much time. Why is white listing so difficult? I gave a descent way to verify it. If what you say is true Bishop that there aren't that many couples, family whatever playing ..then it shouldn't take any time at all. Unless DHarangr or Permwhateverhisname are misleading the facts of how many couple DO actually play but I SERIOUSLY doubt that are privy to that information anyway.
Am I "Permwhateverhisname"?
Correct me if I'm wrong here but what you are saying Bishop is, "Because there are less than 1000 people playing whitelisted it doesn't matter what we do to them?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Corps players or not, you have players that contribute to the game and you are turning your proverbial back on them for a system that doesn't address the issue of cheating.
If it is cold outside and you put a jacket on, is it still cold outside or did the jacket change the temperature?
By blocking IP address are you actually stopping someone from cheating or are you preventing a cheater from using the same IP?
you're reading into it too much, he was merely validating Palem's thoughts as far as numbers go.
These mods have said several times that they are going to be stopping loads of cheating through this method.
give it a rest joker, nobody is going to listen to you if you try to pick apart everything the mods say with a fine tooth comb
There you go again making ridiculous unfounded statements. If Bishop told you the sky was blue you'd probably still try to say he was lying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joker1975
I am not saying I agree with the changes with this new system, but I trust that the devs took the time and effort to implement something they believe would benefit the game for the greater good.
This will reduce cheaters I am sure of it. Why else have they been taking over a month looking at logs of how cheaters have been playing? The only cost of this is making it more difficult for a portion of the gamers who play to interact with each other. What they gain is a large amount of cheaters to stop using their current tactics and have to take the time to think up new ones or even give up cheating all together. The previous system was not working.
If this new system makes utopia worse by the end of this age then I think its time we gave the devs an ear full. Its not like they are going to stop using this new system without seeing how much it may or may not work. Who knows maybe after the age ends they will make another change.
If you know another solution give it out. ?Think about the solution not the problem? Zedd
Wizard Zorander always gives the best advice.
Hey it's DHaran. Making ridiculous and unfounded statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
How is the statement ridiculous and unfounded. Your statement that this will stop cheaters is unfounded. Have you actually stopped anyone from cheating? Based on some numbers that were posted earlier, 7100 province before this went live to 7100 provinces after it went live. Doesn't sound like you caught anyone yet.
To your statement about Bishop, the sky isn't blue if it is night time. You have to be able to see things from different views. You don't seem to have the capacity to do that DHaran. Bishop and Palem are also in this category.
Have you ever heard there are 3 sides to a story? Your side, my side and the truth lies somewhere in between. This system may or may not stop cheaters. I am taking the stance that it won't stop someone from cheating who wants to cheat. When I get home, I plan on trying the second router to see if there is a way around your little IP catcher. Will I play the game again, probably only to prove that if someone wants to cheat they can. I will see how hard it is for a person who doesn't mess with computers that much to beat a system that DOES NOT address the issue of cheating. I do believe it will be pretty simple for someone to beat this system if they want to cheat.
I just wanted to say thank you for all the hard work. I still feel the same way I did a few posts ago; but, I do want to make sure you know that: I thank you Bishop and crew!.
War Cry is still logging into the game. The system must not be working. Discuss
Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Since you are only a moderator and not a developer are you telling me you know EXACTLY what the developers have done or are doing? Hmmm doesn't seem like something an unpaid moderator would know....so who is making baseless unfounded statements now?
Anyone who read this thread knows that Bishop has stated several times how much this will help cheating. I don't think Dharan needs to know everything behind the scenes in order to know that.
That is exactly right lastunicorn, but they'll simply continue to ignore that. I take Bishop at his word, because he has the knowledge to make statements about the state of cheating in Utopia. Nobody else in this thread has any clue about it and should stop trying to claim that this system is not catching cheaters.Quote:
Originally Posted by lastunicorn
Cause bishop has never been wrong regarding the game mechanics.
The stupid thing irritates me already, can't play through my ipad, error.. Someone else in my kingdom, does not share any ip with someone else what so ever but can't make an attack AT ALL, on a province not even attacked by someone of my kingdom. Long live
@Palem:
Where did I say that it was 1000 couples that are complaining? This is a GENERALLY BAD MECHANISM and you do not have to be one of a couple to be against it.
Like I wrote before, my wife hates Utopia so from your point of view I shouldn't care... I, however, enjoy the company of some people who happen to play from the same IP address.
I won't comment on your reading skills any further, but please pay more attention to the RELEVANT parts of my posts. You should care that even ~500 people are unhappy. It's 7% of your total player-base...
I am not affected by this and sure i see the reasoning, i just think a lot of these arguments can be quelled by simply providing a good documentation for this system?
Posting how the system works in the middle of a discussion = barely anyone will see it. Its great you updated the whitelisting thread in announcements bishop but could you not create a new thread called "Anti cheat system" and give a more detailed description on how it will affect people, for instance couples...
By that i mean perhaps providing a clear and definite answer to i.e.:
* Is this attack and attack only or also t/m-ops and attacks
* What is the time limit for interactions
* Is this a static change or will it be dynamically interpreted as time goes and i.e. you see it doesn't work as it should
* How can couples expect to be treated if complaining and how should they go about it?
The last point is perhaps the biggest point, if you have 500 couples playing, 1k people, then that's 1/7 of the player base.... I don't doubt there are people out there that has misused the system. There will always be some that do... but i seriously doubt all of them are purposefully x-logging each other...
If you look at it another way the only benefit they have is they would perhaps not have to pay for province sitting.
There are to many ISP setups to provide any clear answer to how people have they network set up, so i can only speak for myself, but i get a static IP from my ISP, this means if i ever wanted my girlfriend to play we could not interact, not unless the internal ip identification is read at least. I'm an honest guy and i would find it much easier to look at her pc-screen and help her from there (Since she would in fact be a total beginner in the need of help), then actually have to remember another username and password to log in... But that goes for the same to speak with someone through IRC or MSN and discuss game mechanics, or how to start the game in my eyes, we do all share the same screens just with different values.
To summarize i would really like to see a more detailed introduction to the system before starting a discussion knowing next to nothing how it will work.. And i don't need the specifics in code, just how it would eventually affect people playing honestly in a documented and systematic setup instead of one post here and one post there...
If you know the system it should take about 10 minutes to write an introduction on what we can expect...
So is a way going to be developed for people who live together to play together? Is there a solution in the works for those people, as few as they may be? Because today already we have seen in my specific situation that we cannot war together if we live together and are in the same KD...
Exclude ambushes from the restrictions. It doesn't serve the purpose to have them included.
(just to make sure it's in here)
Just ambush a different target. plenty of options in war.
You can only ambush someone that hit you. If you cant bush them then someone on your IP in your kingdom opped/attacked them. If we drop the block for ambush can we then expect to see people logging in for mates to bush for them?Quote:
Originally Posted by E_Boko
I think its fair to think that people were manipulating white list so as to multi(as you have the information on such matters), but I don't think its fair to assume that people sharing the same IP always x-log. They may a bit, but I think the chance for cheating such as that is both low enough(and the affect low enough) to make it outweighed by permitting such activity.
*edit: by activity, im talking about ambush.