CR vs AMA

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Originally Posted by Tedurur

No he didnt, he is still trying to justify it with all his "oh we were bullied, poor us bwawawaw" That is frankly pathetic. AMA were outplayed and decided to take the low road instead of honoring a diplomatic deal with a KD they claimed to have good relations with. Thats all there is to it.

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lol
how exactly is ama outplayed? ama won all war vs competitors. ama has no support no alliance no nothing :)
this wave is not a big issue for havoc. before taxing simians they were 155k acres big, now they are 148k. ama simply removed the tax acres. havoc can declare and war ama - they still have superior sci, t/m, resorces. if you give notice you should expect wave, if you powwerplay and promise 2vs1 you should expect same. ama is not nice kd anymore. kids with big egos understand only the suckerpunch diplomacy. the main problem is that Elit was too nice with all of you for too long, but if you leave the kids with no control they will sit at your head. AMA is spanking the naughty kid asses now, and the whinning comes

I find it hilarious that when AMA was big and bullying kds like PewPew into engaging them on their terms, they threw around the "all start at 400 acres" or "learn how to play the whoring game". Then when AMA got outplayed in the diplomacy/CF department and were forced to engage a bigger kd they just went and dealbroke CR. Priceless.

Now I guess we can just add "being outplayed" to the list of valid reasons to dealbreak =)

Go Havoc - war us! U have more gold, more sci, more t/m. We have nothing - no sci, no t/m, no money and no real army - only naked land. Why are u so chicken to attack us :S

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Originally Posted by Shai

I find it hilarious that when AMA was big and bullying kds like PewPew into engaging them on their terms, they threw around the "all start at 400 acres" or "learn how to play the whoring game". Then when AMA got outplayed in the diplomacy/CF department and were forced to engage a bigger kd they just went and dealbroke CR. Priceless.

Now I guess we can just add "being outplayed" to the list of valid reasons to dealbreak =)

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ama never said that they wont war havoc or want to avoid havoc. ama never wanted eoa cf with havoc. even with zauper ama discussed only abt a week extention, thats it. ama doesnt run, but wanted to war pyro 1st. havoc were stupid enough not only to bully ama and threat them that they will 2vs1, but also taxed simians so they can be 185k vs 155k. 9 weeks pump was not enough for havoc to engage ama in equal size. no, they needed 15% size advantage too :) this is utter insolence and stupidity. If they were smart enough to give extention to ama untill yr10 (1 week more) AMA would've been unable to run when the CF expires. but havoc leadership are very weak and now they suffer. havoc learned that you shouldnt try bullying someone who can actually f*ck you, its not like bullying all small ghettos for the previous 8 weeks :)

AMA should probably be GBd.

Their excuses are silly since they were offered what they wanted and declined it.

The honest truth? They didn't see another path that gave them a shot at the crown, because of the ghetto razing their cows, and so they decided to blame someone and screw over their age.

I'm embarrassed for you, Elit. You've always had more class than this. Kdvote doesn't mean you have to follow it, or respect/defend it.

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Originally Posted by MaRCoRoXoR

She cheated with your father. Dealbreaker! is good? How is it going to be fine? The thing is!

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WTF. Does it always look like this when you try to argue a point?

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Dealbreaking is cheating.

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Deal-break is deal-break and cheating is cheating. It's not hard to understand the difference but maybe you should go out and get some fresh air before posting again.

One kingdom gets issued **** options by another kingdom, so decided to take their own option. You can't come out and brag like 12 year olds with the best pog stack and threaten to gang up and 2v1 (or hit into a war), THEN appear surprised they won't accept the ****.

If it's a ceasefire and you have favourable relations then behave that way. Don't be arrogant and talk big if your kingdom is not ready for war. There is no right to #1 spot.

poor form - either win being honest or dont play.

*popcorn*

Good thread. Disappointed at Havoc/CR forum warring so far.

You can expect action from a Kingdom once a CF expires, until then, you should have the right to run your kingdom to its best production.

How AMA is going to strike a deal in the future will be interesting...

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Originally Posted by fuzzy|

poor form - either win being honest or dont play.

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+1. For once I agree with you bro. This is a sad day indeed, when even the best KD's like AMA resort to playing in such low and despicable ways. To see Proteus in here defending it is just funny, he really can never get his story straight on what is up/down or left/right. Guess it depends which side of the bed he wakes up on in the morning.

Elit: We have our differences but I think you are a smart player and leader and AMA is the KD to beat to prove a KD is "top " IMHO. You should take pride in that and lead by example and provide examples to others. To turn around and say being a child molester is OK because other people have done it and you want to show them how lame it is? Sounds more just like an excuse to have sex with a kid, just saying. That is basically the same logic you are using to reinforce and yet again set a piss poor precedent on more increased dealbreaking, ****playing, and just general drama that is childish and stupid. What is the point of any of us playing this game anymore if it is just a matter of who waits to be randomly ****ed over by who. You claimed all this moral high ground last Age when you wanted to step in and action Rage now you like I said always spin the story when you or an ally is able to exploit it.

This is same reason EJ screwed you over, because they knew your greed knows no limits would blind you. As did Pew Pew and SWEA did. For being such an intelligent person and great chess player I am amazed that you continually fall for these things then act like somehow you are surprised on the outcome.

That being said I do think CR basically instigated AMA to wave them. IMHO the community should've acted like when I said prior that CR making this thread and giving notice of a notice was a deal-break in itself. So both Havoc and AMA should in all honestly both be removed and penalized as the top has previously agreed that things like lying, going back on you word, and farming a KD is against the rules. If community seriously allows this to continue we should honestly just all delete. The Age pretty much comes down to who is willing to be the biggest lying douche-bag asshole and is all about paying people back and not having fun. Just like AMA cries foul now about RBL/PP/PR alliance but was fine being allied with BB/EJ last Age and doing the exact same thing. Nothing is wrong even with alliance they have always existed its when you deal-break, GB without justification, or cheat (ie release to steal from allies, land-drop allies, etc).

We will see how things unfold...

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Originally Posted by Dark Knight

You can expect action from a Kingdom once a CF expires, until then, you should have the right to run your kingdom to its best production.

How AMA is going to strike a deal in the future will be interesting...

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Future ... Deal ... AMA ...

http://totalprogress.nl/wp-content/u.../bsod-full.png

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

That being said I do think CR basically instigated AMA to wave them. IMHO the community should've acted like when I said prior that CR making this thread and giving notice of a notice was a deal-break in itself.

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So if a kingdom says they wont renegotiate a CF before a CF ends, is that a deal break?

It sounds like AMA had an opportunity to make a deal that would allow them to war Pyro without interference, but they did not make one. Instead they chose to break a CF and wave Havoc.

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Originally Posted by Vivic

lol
how exactly is ama outplayed? ama won all war vs competitors. ama has no support no alliance no nothing :)
this wave is not a big issue for havoc. before taxing simians they were 155k acres big, now they are 148k. ama simply removed the tax acres. havoc can declare and war ama - they still have superior sci, t/m, resorces. if you give notice you should expect wave, if you powwerplay and promise 2vs1 you should expect same. ama is not nice kd anymore. kids with big egos understand only the suckerpunch diplomacy. the main problem is that Elit was too nice with all of you for too long, but if you leave the kids with no control they will sit at your head. AMA is spanking the naughty kid asses now, and the whinning comes

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How exactly was AMA outplayed? Are you seriously asking that? Really?? Let me ask you this, if they werent outplayed by CR then why would they resort to dealbreaking a KD that they claim to have "good " relations with?

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Originally Posted by Runefire

So if a kingdom says they wont renegotiate a CF before a CF ends, is that a deal break?

It sounds like AMA had an opportunity to make a deal that would allow them to war Pyro without interference, but they did not make one. Instead they chose to break a CF and wave Havoc.

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Saying you wont extend CF is not same as noticing someone in violation of your terms. CR clearly deal-broke by giving notice before their deal allowed it. Positioning it as a cute thread and bragging about it just added insult to injury and pretty much assured AMA would do something. Funny I called this right after CR made this thread and said would be followed by more of the same.

What AMA should have done is went to community and our alliance and asked for action on CR instead of being even more lame and moving to the same types actions themselves. Then they would instead have crowned and had full support of the community, while also setting an example of fairplay. Sadly, they chose blind greed over any shred of dignity or self respect. Seems that is prevalent in Utopia now.

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Originally Posted by Runefire

So if a kingdom says they wont renegotiate a CF before a CF ends, is that a deal break?

It sounds like AMA had an opportunity to make a deal that would allow them to war Pyro without interference, but they did not make one. Instead they chose to break a CF and wave Havoc.

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Definition of "notice" in utopia: kd A tells kd B they are gonna war them in a certain period of time (48 72 96h ect). This thread was a notice by itself. Considering that the cf was till y9 a premature notice or "notice of a notice" by definition is a dealbreak. Havoc send AMA a notice to war in a thread form before the cf expired, ergo by definition they dealbroke. Threats began flying for 2v1, oow hits and so on. By the deal the wave may start 72h after notice is served. Havoc did a dealbreak notice and got waved way after 72h of that notice. If we gonna swing by the book of Utopian rules then blame Havoc for dealbreaking not AMA. Who in their right mind will corner a kd like AMA and be pants down during that time?! Anyone who is not from havoc: would you do the same in that situation if it was ur kd? Threat and notice a kd w/o being ready for war?!

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Originally Posted by Tedurur

How exactly was AMA outplayed? Are you seriously asking that? Really?? Let me ask you this, if they werent outplayed by CR then why would they resort to dealbreaking a KD that they claim to have "good " relations with?

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Originally Posted by Runefire

So if a kingdom says they wont renegotiate a CF before a CF ends, is that a deal break?

It sounds like AMA had an opportunity to make a deal that would allow them to war Pyro without interference, but they did not make one. Instead they chose to break a CF and wave Havoc.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

AMA should probably be GBd.

Their excuses are silly since they were offered what they wanted and declined it.

The honest truth? They didn't see another path that gave them a shot at the crown, because of the ghetto razing their cows, and so they decided to blame someone and screw over their age.

I'm embarrassed for you, Elit. You've always had more class than this. Kdvote doesn't mean you have to follow it, or respect/defend it.

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We had good relations with Zauper, not his kingdom and especially not a slew of particular players in that KD. Zauper left and the ****play they were doing ages ago started back up and we decided to make a stand. We could've farmed out to Pyro, we could have taken the deal they offered us a WEEK after we asked for it, when it was already too late. Too little, too late from Havoc and they pay for it, losing their crown just like we lost ours the previous 4 ages.

Most nubs in this thread need to get their heads checked out if they honestly think Elit is this big, bad, unfair player. The past 4 ages Elit has tried every which way to enforce fair play, and every time it screwed us over. Every time some KD or another decided to take the ****play hammer and dissed out some illegitimate behavior. Yet what people remember is Elit enforcing fair play on these kingdoms, rather than the fair things we did.

And yes, if you nubs do read, we have said and admitted over a dozen times in this thread that this is a ****ty situation, that dealbreaking is not acceptable, and that we never even had the delusion that this would give us a #1 finish. If we had wanted to play for #1, we would've played this age very differently. We had an age off, we wanted to war. We wanted to war Pyro and then Havoc, but Havoc decided that was not acceptable and that they could force us to do what they want, and it bit them in the ass.

Zauper: I have given you our reasons, I have told you we never did this for a crown. We still respect you, we do not respect the kingdom you left. The deals Havoc got from us the previous ages and this age, that allowed them to get where they got, were solely because of the fact you were leading them. You left, they screw us over, we screw them over right back. They could have cruised to an easy chart win, and we wouldn't have been able to do anything against it. Instead Havoc decided to ****play us, try to humiliate us, talk big on the forums, threaten with 2v1, screw over several kingdoms (legacy, simians, pyro, rbl), and we decided we would not be screwed over. We made a stand.

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Originally Posted by guard14n

Definition of "notice" in utopia: kd A tells kd B they are gonna war them in a certain period of time (48 72 96h ect). This thread was a notice by itself. Considering that the cf was till y9 a premature notice or "notice of a notice" by definition is a dealbreak. Havoc send AMA a notice to war in a thread form before the cf expired, ergo by definition they dealbroke. Threats began flying for 2v1, oow hits and so on. By the deal the wave may start 72h after notice is served. Havoc did a dealbreak notice and got waved way after 72h of that notice. If we gonna swing by the book of Utopian rules then blame Havoc for dealbreaking not AMA. Who in their right mind will corner a kd like AMA and be pants down during that time?! Anyone who is not from havoc: would you do the same in that situation if it was ur kd? Threat and notice a kd w/o being ready for war?!

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Last age Elit said diplomacy can't be done through forums. Which is it?

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

Saying you wont extend CF is not same as noticing someone in violation of your terms. CR clearly deal-broke by giving notice before their deal allowed it. Positioning it as a cute thread and bragging about it just added insult to injury and pretty much assured AMA would do something. Funny I called this right after CR made this thread and said would be followed by more of the same.

What AMA should have done is went to community and our alliance and asked for action on CR instead of being even more lame and moving to the same types actions themselves. Then they would instead have crowned and had full support of the community, while also setting an example of fairplay. Sadly, they chose blind greed over any shred of dignity or self respect. Seems that is prevalent in Utopia now.

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As far as i know we did ask for assistance from your alliance but i didnt want to take sides. It wasnt in your best interest to help a kd when that kd is your opponent. It didnt suit u to help us out before but now it suits you to ask community for gb in order for one of your kds to crown. Thing is we dont care about the crown mates we are just sick being ****played all the time. We've proven ourselves to be a force to be reckoned with by warring every kd in the current game and winning even tho we were at disatvantage most of the times. But being the best in something does not mean we are at the top. This is a war game and if a bunch of kds cant handle one kd they ally against that kd to ensure having the upperhand. Case closed, nuff said!

Peace \/

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Originally Posted by guard14n

Definition of "notice" in utopia: kd A tells kd B they are gonna war them in a certain period of time (48 72 96h ect). This thread was a notice by itself. Considering that the cf was till y9 a premature notice or "notice of a notice" by definition is a dealbreak. Havoc send AMA a notice to war in a thread form before the cf expired, ergo by definition they dealbroke. Threats began flying for 2v1, oow hits and so on. By the deal the wave may start 72h after notice is served. Havoc did a dealbreak notice and got waved way after 72h of that notice. If we gonna swing by the book of Utopian rules then blame Havoc for deal-breaking not AMA. Who in their right mind will corner a kd like AMA and be pants down during that time?! Anyone who is not from havoc: would you do the same in that situation if it was ur kd? Threat and notice a kd w/o being ready for war?!

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Yeah it is pretty clear CR deal-broke first. But one deal-break doesn't mean AMA gets to screw Pyro and basically indirectly deal-break them. That is what you guys don't see and why I am surprised as much as you have got screwed over at the hands of such things that you continually have no problem if everyones (including yours) Age's are ruined constantly by these type of BS actions and if this type of play continues what it means. Isnt AMA the KD that is suppose to be talking down from a position of example on what is honorable or acceptable in the game? What I see is AMA basically doing the exact things it knocks others for or calls them dirty for. This just comes across as ridiculous to anyone with more than a two second attention span.

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Originally Posted by Runefire

Last age Elit said diplomacy can't be done through forums. Which is it?

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Diplomacy is not a notice! Doing diplo in forums is retarded. Serving a notice in the forums is a common thing the last few ages.

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Originally Posted by Cello

And yes, if you nubs do read, we have said and admitted over a dozen times in this thread that this is a ****ty situation, that dealbreaking is not acceptable, and that we never even had the delusion that this would give us a #1 finish. If we had wanted to play for #1, we would've played this age very differently. We had an age off, we wanted to war. We wanted to war Pyro and then Havoc, but Havoc decided that was not acceptable and that they could force us to do what they want, and it bit them in the ass.

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And I believe when Strippers/Debauchery wanted to have a few fun wars to end their age you waved in to that war. AMA, the great upholder of utopian values and fair play. Long Live AMA.

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Originally Posted by guard14n

Definition of "notice" in utopia: kd A tells kd B they are gonna war them in a certain period of time (48 72 96h ect). This thread was a notice by itself. Considering that the cf was till y9 a premature notice or "notice of a notice" by definition is a dealbreak. Havoc send AMA a notice to war in a thread form before the cf expired, ergo by definition they dealbroke. Threats began flying for 2v1, oow hits and so on. By the deal the wave may start 72h after notice is served. Havoc did a dealbreak notice and got waved way after 72h of that notice. If we gonna swing by the book of Utopian rules then blame Havoc for dealbreaking not AMA. Who in their right mind will corner a kd like AMA and be pants down during that time?! Anyone who is not from havoc: would you do the same in that situation if it was ur kd? Threat and notice a kd w/o being ready for war?!

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You're wrong. Notice has no direct relation to war. If you can't get that basic fact straight, don't bother commenting on anything else.

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

Yeah it is pretty clear CR deal-broke first. But one deal-break doesn't mean AMA gets to screw Pyro and basically indirectly deal-break them. That is what you guys don't see and why I am surprised as much as you have got screwed over at the hands of such things that you continually have no problem if everyones (including yours) Age's are ruined constantly by these type of BS actions and if this type of play continues what it means. Isnt AMA the KD that is suppose to be talking down from a position of example on what is honorable or acceptable in the game? What I see is AMA basically doing the exact things it knocks others for or calls them dirty for. This just comes across as ridiculous to anyone with more than a two second attention span.

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When did any of us said what we did is the right thing to do?! It wasnt. But how are we dealbreaking pyro atm? Do you think that havoc will just let us farm them and wont fight? they have 3x our sci with insane millitary, the moment they feel confident we are gonna be in the hardest war we ever had this age (considering your alliance doesnt g/b us which will ruin all top kds mock my words :P). You say that Pyro (one of the best warring kds rnd) cant manage to handle us with no core after a destructive war with so much time to explore + pump?! We did NOT dealbreak pyro nor anyone else. We have issue with havoc that dealbroke us and with them alone. They are not part of your alliance and its gonna be a though war with them.

Altho to be honest knowing your alliance you will propably combine with kds like simians and start gb-ing us just for the fun of it am i wrong? :_)

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Originally Posted by faegan

You're wrong. Notice has no direct relation to war. If you can't get that basic fact straight, don't bother commenting on anything else.

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So if it was you you would do the exact same thing Havoc did? Are you a monarch somewhere? If yes pls think again.

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Originally Posted by guard14n

As far as i know we did ask for assistance from your alliance but i didnt want to take sides. It wasnt in your best interest to help a kd when that kd is your opponent. It didnt suit u to help us out before but now it suits you to ask community for gb in order for one of your kds to crown. Thing is we dont care about the crown mates we are just sick being ****played all the time. We've proven ourselves to be a force to be reckoned with by warring every kd in the current game and winning even tho we were at disatvantage most of the times. But being the best in something does not mean we are at the top. This is a war game and if a bunch of kds cant handle one kd they ally against that kd to ensure having the upperhand. Case closed, nuff said!

Peace \/

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No leader from AMA approached our alliance prior asking for support from alliance as whole in regards to CR deal-break. This is because until AMA got razed by another KD they made mad they honestly expected to beat Pyro then Havoc and didnt think they would need help. Once they got razed and they saw their Age got ruined by their own actions and way they treat people they went all emo and deal-broke CR. This is why they did not approach alliance, because they expected to still be able to win and wanted to brag even more if they could secure win in that fashion, nothing else. I nowhere asked for community to GB AMA. What community does or doesnt do to AMA/CR because of this basically decides if there is even a game left worth playing. When the two KD's who supposedly have the most "stacked" rosters resort to this as ordinary this game is dead and we are all just pretending...

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

No leader from AMA approached our alliance prior asking for support from alliance as whole in regards to CR deal-break. This is because until AMA got razed by another KD they made mad they honestly expected to beat Pyro then Havoc and didnt think they would need help. Once they got razed and they saw their Age got ruined by their own actions and way they treat people they went all emo and deal-broke CR. This is why they did not approach alliance, because they expected to still be able to win and wanted to brag even more if they could secure win in that fashion, nothing else. I nowhere asked for community to GB AMA. What community does or doesnt do to AMA/CR because of this basically decides if there is even a game left worth playing. When the two KD's who supposedly have the most "stacked" rosters resort to this as ordinary this game is dead and we are all just pretending...

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If you read up you will see a post of Elit's where he asked Pyro that if Havoc 2v1's AMA if there will be any help given and there was no affirmative answer. I don't see how talking to your alliance would have helped anyone.

Also in case you haven't noticed this game is dead and has been dead for ages...the land crown has been shaped by ****play for countless ages with arranged farmouts, 2v1s, and other forms of **** playing. The best kingdom has not won land crown for 4 ages running.

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Originally Posted by Zauper

AMA should probably be GBd.

Their excuses are silly since they were offered what they wanted and declined it.

The honest truth? They didn't see another path that gave them a shot at the crown, because of the ghetto razing their cows, and so they decided to blame someone and screw over their age.

I'm embarrassed for you, Elit. You've always had more class than this. Kdvote doesn't mean you have to follow it, or respect/defend it.

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almost hard to believe this statement comes from you.. how far you have fallen...

the honest truth is you and your kd have attempted to ****play the server to win a crown.. you want to claim it is because you left and maxi is leading and others in the kd just don't agree with your ethical standards anymore.. that can be looked at as being quite convenient. however I find it to strange to be the complete truth. I think you played a role in signing off of this way of play. you should be embarrassed for yourself and how you allowed your kd to behave this age.. many used to admire your leadership and play. i think you lost much of that respect now..

rage/pyro/pew and u (CR) have tried to humiliate and destroy ama all age.. it back fired for one reason.. ama is really that good the only kd that can say they have the ability to play at the level of old utopia.. why does drixx and others still hate ama you had the upper hand and you still lost except it.. no actually you should admire it if you really luv the game as much as you claim..

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Originally Posted by Proteus

If you read up you will see a post of Elit's where he asked Pyro that if Havoc 2v1's AMA if there will be any help given and there was no affirmative answer. I don't see how talking to your alliance would have helped anyone.

Also in case you haven't noticed this game is dead and has been dead for ages...the land crown has been shaped by ****play for countless ages with arranged farmouts, 2v1s, and other forms of **** playing. The best kingdom has not won land crown for 4 ages running.

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There is difference between asking one KD who is not sure if they can trust you and is new to the top, than asking an alliance of players who you know have experienced the exact ****play you have. I honestly have a hard time believing you. You did not ask for help because it is not about logic or sense to you, only silly pride and random BS and further encouraging more BS in the game instead of using the power you have as one of the last remaining high level KD to make the game better overall. If you fail to see the difference between the two then you will keep being involved and apart of these situations as AMA always is. Last Age you let a KD crown who you claimed intentionally farmed out to another KD to do so, and you had exactly zero concern about it (again bec it didnt impact you at all). The only reason you even action-ed Rage is because you expected to crown because of it. Which your own ally played you and did the exact same thing to you that you said Rage did and was lame, no matter which way you want to spin it.

Yeah you are right game is dead. Its because of people like you, who instead of standing for something, by their KD mates and friends, or trying to make the game better overall training new players instead make it worse making excuses and continuing the BS. When I said "dead" I mean in the aspect of it being fun, not as in meaning quality of KD's. Which both you and CR have a hand in by consolidating into two KD's and you wonder why its pointless playing. You either ****play, deal-break, or simply recruit your competition out of existence. Sounds smart. Most people I know like to play games with others, not make them all want to quit because they never know when someone is gonna act like a 5 yo and get up and kick the game-board.

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

Yeah you are right game is dead. Its because of people like you, who instead of standing for something or trying to make the game better instead make it worse making excuses. When I said "dead" I mean in the aspect of it being fun, not as in meaning quality of KD's. Which both you and CR have a hand in by consolidating into two KD's and you wonder why its pointless playing. You either ****play, deal-break, or simply recruit your competition out of existence. Sounds smart. Most people I know like to play games with others, not make them all want to quit because they never know when someone is gonna act like a 5 yo and get up and kick the game-board.

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Funny thing is after I retired from leading kds due to working full time, I had option to stay in Rage and help advise and teach people to get better but chose to leave and be a regular player in AMA...wanna know one of the main reasons for it, you guys were going to be allied with Havoc/CR and there was no way I was going to play in a kd that is allied to a kd like Havoc, especially after Abs disbanded and there were some people floating around who were never able to lead an Abs kd/be in alliance leadership and wanted to pretend they were still Abs anyways after everyone associated with the group for years had departed. Havoc has been ****playing for a long time and made Abs look like a joke, it has finally caught up to them.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Funny thing is after I retired from leading kds due to working full time, I had option to stay in Rage and help advise and teach people to get better but chose to leave and be a regular player in AMA...wanna know one of the main reasons for it, you guys were going to be allied with Havoc/CR and there was no way I was going to play in a kd that is allied to a kd like Havoc, especially after Abs disbanded and there were some people floating around who were never able to lead an Abs kd/be in alliance leadership and wanted to pretend they were still Abs anyways after everyone associated with the group for years had departed. Havoc has been ****playing for a long time and made Abs look like a joke, it has finally caught up to them.

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Proteus you know my position on that. You as a leader in Rage could've ended all alliances with Havoc had you really wanted to, as I did. Me and you spoke about it at length many times. That doesn't change that what you are doing is as bad if not worse than Havoc. That also doesn't change fact that when you was tested on if you could actually back up your talk with action you instead chose the easy way out. The same role and leadership **** you do in AMA you could've done in Rage, a KD that stuck by your nub ass when you do all the **** you QQ about other people doing. Who you ****talked insanely the instant you left. They sure was good enough for you until you chose to go to AMA, how convenient to slam them now. Just like I am sure when you joined Rage you was crown chasing, that's only reason you join KDs or stay in them. Anyone who knows you knows that.

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Originally Posted by guard14n

So if it was you you would do the exact same thing Havoc did? Are you a monarch somewhere? If yes pls think again.

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I don't think Munk was very smart starting this thread when he did. I would probably consider it a dealbreak as well, but then again, I would talk to the people leading the kingdom and try to resolve matters. That didn't seem to go very well for AMA, since Havoc was in a position to just demand acres for CF.

My personal viewpoint:
Last age I was pretty upset with my monarch and steward because they were so quick to hand out free acres to Fratzia and some others. That's why I am perhaps not made for diplomacy; my motto would be: if you want my acres? Come get them! And should you decide to take them, please don't come crying when we start hitting OOW or razing your oh-so-precious cows.

So, to answer your question: I would probably do what Havoc did, aside from starting this silly thread. I would probably just have let the CF expire and service notice then. And in Havoc's position I also would have waved you, knowing that Pyro would also wave. It's been mentioned before that your poor CF expirations are none of other KD's concerns.

All in all, it's like I tell my 4 y/o daughter:
You made a mess, you clean it up....
She's smart enough to listen and do the right thing....

But in AMA's case, they chose to make an even bigger mess .... 4 y/o >>> AMA ?

And last thing: don't patronize me or be condescending; you are defending people who blatantly disregard all rules of fair play in Utopia.
That is something I have not done, ever...and I've been around since Age 3.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by faegan

I don't think Munk was very smart starting this thread when he did. I would probably consider it a dealbreak as well, but then again, I would talk to the people leading the kingdom and try to resolve matters. That didn't seem to go very well for AMA, since Havoc was in a position to just demand acres for CF.

My personal viewpoint:
Last age I was pretty upset with my monarch and steward because they were so quick to hand out free acres to Fratzia and some others. That's why I am perhaps not made for diplomacy; my motto would be: if you want my acres? Come get them! And should you decide to take them, please don't come crying when we start hitting OOW or razing your oh-so-precious cows.

So, to answer your question: I would probably do what Havoc did, aside from starting this silly thread. I would probably just have let the CF expire and service notice then. And in Havoc's position I also would have waved you, knowing that Pyro would also wave. It's been mentioned before that your poor CF expirations are none of other KD's concerns.

All in all, it's like I tell my 4 y/o daughter:
You made a mess, you clean it up....
She's smart enough to listen and do the right thing....

But in AMA's case, they chose to make an even bigger mess .... 4 y/o >>> AMA ?

And last thing: don't patronize me or be condescending; you are defending people who blatantly disregard all rules of fair play in Utopia.
That is something I have not done, ever...and I've been around since Age 3.

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Suuure you will do the same thing havoc did ... without the part that actually started this - nice my friend nice your logic is flawless. U see the whole thing is cuz of the premature notice and the whole thing is cuz of the bullying. Its not about poor CF agreements. Almost every cf deal comes with a part that if u are hostile or in war with someone u cant get noticed. Havoc premature noticed us exactly cuz of that - to ensure we wont fight pyro. To say that no matter what we gonna get 2v1 or oow razed with premature notice can piss anyone off.

I will patronize you when u give me ground to step on. We reacted as we should have reacted. U said it urself - if someone wants u let him come propper and honor deals, if that does not happen you know u could expect anything.
I dont rly care how long u are here. I was also rnd for a long time now and i know what we did was right. We made a deal with havoc, they broke the deal, they challanged us, insulted us, threaten us and conspire against us - of course we will attack. I know that they are now orchestrating a gb with a certain alliance and some jungle creatures and tbh noone will win from this gb :)

PS - send me a link to all the rules of fair play in utopia and pls tell where we broke any?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guard14n

Suuure you will do the same thing havoc did ... without the part that actually started this - nice my friend nice your logic is flawless. U see the whole thing is cuz of the premature notice and the whole thing is cuz of the bullying. Its not about poor CF agreements. Almost every cf deal comes with a part that if u are hostile or in war with someone u cant get noticed. Havoc premature noticed us exactly cuz of that - to ensure we wont fight pyro. To say that no matter what we gonna get 2v1 or oow razed with premature notice can piss anyone off.

I will patronize you when u give me ground to step on. We reacted as we should have reacted. U said it urself - if someone wants u let him come propper and honor deals, if that does not happen you know u could expect anything.
I dont rly care how long u are here. I was also rnd for a long time now and i know what we did was right. We made a deal with havoc, they broke the deal, they challanged us, insulted us, threaten us and conspire against us - of course we will attack. I know that they are now orchestrating a gb with a certain alliance and some jungle creatures and tbh noone will win from this gb :)

PS - send me a link to all the rules of fair play in utopia and pls tell where we broke any?

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I dont need to post links to what is already blatantly obvious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

Proteus you know my position on that. You as a leader in Rage could've ended all alliances with Havoc had you really wanted to, as I did. Me and you spoke about it at length many times. That doesn't change that what you are doing is as bad if not worse than Havoc. That also doesn't change fact that when you was tested on if you could actually back up your talk with action you instead chose the easy way out. The same role and leadership **** you do in AMA you could've done in Rage, a KD that stuck by your nub ass when you do all the **** you QQ about other people doing. Who you ****talked insanely the instant you left. They sure was good enough for you until you chose to go to AMA, how convenient to slam them now. Just like I am sure when you joined Rage you was crown chasing, that's only reason you join KDs or stay in them. Anyone who knows you knows that.

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I don't really agree with you that people outside from family can claim that they know me better than I know myself. Why did I join Rage? Because it was a great opportunity to play at the very top, lead one of the best kds to ever play, and a great learning experience because in the beginning both ASF and Zoot were around. Crowning was secondary and honestly I even *brought* crowns as they happened when I was leading and kd was fully transitioned to me vs. "received" crowns i.e. when you join a kd as a player or just help out a little bit and you win....leader crowns when you average 4-5h of sleep a night in those ages matter.

What do I do in AMA? I play a province and I help out a little bit as is needed and just enjoy the game, spend time talking to people in the kd I play in, and that it. You are right I had choices...I could have kept on leading Rage for several ages but then I would be stretched too thin with work and this stuff (it is very time consuming) but bottom line I wasn't going to actively lead a kingdom after I stopped after end of age 57 and handed it over to 3 other people. Sure I could have stayed on as an advisor + help out like I do now but I chose not to because kd was going to be allied to Havoc...I advised not to be allied to havoc as they are selfish lying scumbags who only care about crowning because they have 0 crowns and will throw any 'ally' under the bus to get there (as you have seen already i.e. age 58). So no for me its not about crowns its about having fun and doing what I believe in. Also saying the reason I join kds or stay in them is for crown chasing but that doesnt make sense, if I wanted more crowns all I had to do was stay in Rage and keep putting time in...we won a crown our last age and would have won 2 if it was not for ****play.

As for QQing about **** happening now that I have done? What have I done in the past that I am QQing about...when I was leading the kd was a million times cleaner than the actions you've seen in the top last ages. I never dibbed anyone saying we were going to hit them no matter what and not to 'run'. I never threatened to 2v1 people if they refuse to fight us. I never farmed out to anyone to shape the charts.

What you are missing here is what AMA does is REACTIONARY. What ****play did AMA do in Age 57 when their first crown was stolen from them in a 2v1 by Sanc and Havoc for the planning/discussion of which I was present in Abscouncil and can share logs if requested. As AMA's main competitor that age, I thought they played the age clean...was I pissed about given 72h notice after we spent 5 days warring BB and taking them out...yes as anyone would be in a situation like that but it was clean. They served us notice and hit after it was over, we did not have time to prep so they got free land. After that AMA fought Sanc in a fair clean war and farmed them. At that point Havoc knew they had 0 chance to win as Sanc was a stronger kd than they were and just got decimated and AMA was bigger + explored a bunch so they arranged 2v1. What did AMA do to play dirty here? Nothing.

Age 58 was a joke age with Strippers dealbreaking Rage unprovoked, Havoc abandoning allies to whore entire age and let them get shafted. AMA was #1 majority of age from good execution and fought and beat Havoc 1v1. End of age AMA ended up eating GB from several kingdoms due to them wanting to crown and being mad about being outmaneuvered as they did not have experience navigating the top and were butthurt over it.

Age 59 race was between AMA and BB with kds changing positions. AMA receives vulture from ED who then spends entire age running from AMA after losing to avoid cow being farmed. When AMA is #1 eoa they received bucnh of coordinated razes from ghettos EOA from kds we have not touched entire age. EOA parth fail as ED monarch and go to havoc to try and win (crown chasing) and talks sh1t to us all age about how we get dibbed and 2v1ed after having spent majority of former age doing FW and running.

This current age we got vulture 2x, powerplayed, dictated who we would fight, dibbed in advance and threatened to be 2v1 on two occasions, had our deal abused and broken by auto dibbing...and after all of this does AMA respond and punish the ****players. So it took AMA 3+ ages of playing clean and fair and not punishing ****players to finally respond and people get pissed about it. So according to spectaters AMA needs to be eating ****play indefinitely and doing nothing about it. Pretty easy to see how this is reactionary vs. proactive ****playing which has been done to us FIRST (i.e. havoc 2v1, robbing into eow, gb, auto dibbing).

Clean and fair includes hitting in to war according to AMA?

Excellent news everybody!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by guard14n

Suuure you will do the same thing havoc did ... without the part that actually started this - nice my friend nice your logic is flawless. U see the whole thing is cuz of the premature notice and the whole thing is cuz of the bullying. Its not about poor CF agreements. Almost every cf deal comes with a part that if u are hostile or in war with someone u cant get noticed. Havoc premature noticed us exactly cuz of that - to ensure we wont fight pyro. To say that no matter what we gonna get 2v1 or oow razed with premature notice can piss anyone off.

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Early posts in the thread state Pyro and Havoc CF's with AMA ended at the same time. So how could Havoc notice AMA in hostile/war with Pyro?

What they were saying was if they noticed AMA for war and AMA and Pyro went to war, they would hit in. Something AMA did in earlier ages and have argued is acceptable practice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Proteus

I don't really agree with you that people outside from family can claim that they know me better than I know myself. Why did I join Rage? Because it was a great opportunity to play at the very top, lead one of the best kds to ever play, and a great learning experience because in the beginning both ASF and Zoot were around. Crowning was secondary and honestly I even *brought* crowns as they happened when I was leading and kd was fully transitioned to me vs. "received" crowns i.e. when you join a kd as a player or just help out a little bit and you win....leader crowns when you average 4-5h of sleep a night in those ages matter.

What do I do in AMA? I play a province and I help out a little bit as is needed and just enjoy the game, spend time talking to people in the kd I play in, and that it. You are right I had choices...I could have kept on leading Rage for several ages but then I would be stretched too thin with work and this stuff (it is very time consuming) but bottom line I wasn't going to actively lead a kingdom after I stopped after end of age 57 and handed it over to 3 other people. Sure I could have stayed on as an advisor + help out like I do now but I chose not to because kd was going to be allied to Havoc...I advised not to be allied to havoc as they are selfish lying scumbags who only care about crowning because they have 0 crowns and will throw any 'ally' under the bus to get there (as you have seen already i.e. age 58). So no for me its not about crowns its about having fun and doing what I believe in. Also saying the reason I join kds or stay in them is for crown chasing but that doesnt make sense, if I wanted more crowns all I had to do was stay in Rage and keep putting time in...we won a crown our last age and would have won 2 if it was not for ****play.

As for QQing about **** happening now that I have done? What have I done in the past that I am QQing about...when I was leading the kd was a million times cleaner than the actions you've seen in the top last ages. I never dibbed anyone saying we were going to hit them no matter what and not to 'run'. I never threatened to 2v1 people if they refuse to fight us. I never farmed out to anyone to shape the charts.

What you are missing here is what AMA does is REACTIONARY. What ****play did AMA do in Age 57 when their first crown was stolen from them in a 2v1 by Sanc and Havoc for the planning/discussion of which I was present in Abscouncil and can share logs if requested. As AMA's main competitor that age, I thought they played the age clean...was I pissed about given 72h notice after we spent 5 days warring BB and taking them out...yes as anyone would be in a situation like that but it was clean. They served us notice and hit after it was over, we did not have time to prep so they got free land. After that AMA fought Sanc in a fair clean war and farmed them. At that point Havoc knew they had 0 chance to win as Sanc was a stronger kd than they were and just got decimated and AMA was bigger + explored a bunch so they arranged 2v1. What did AMA do to play dirty here? Nothing.

Age 58 was a joke age with Strippers dealbreaking Rage unprovoked, Havoc abandoning allies to whore entire age and let them get shafted. AMA was #1 majority of age from good execution and fought and beat Havoc 1v1. End of age AMA ended up eating GB from several kingdoms due to them wanting to crown and being mad about being outmaneuvered as they did not have experience navigating the top and were butthurt over it.

Age 59 race was between AMA and BB with kds changing positions. AMA receives vulture from ED who then spends entire age running from AMA after losing to avoid cow being farmed. When AMA is #1 eoa they received bucnh of coordinated razes from ghettos EOA from kds we have not touched entire age. EOA parth fail as ED monarch and go to havoc to try and win (crown chasing) and talks sh1t to us all age about how we get dibbed and 2v1ed after having spent majority of former age doing FW and running.

This current age we got vulture 2x, powerplayed, dictated who we would fight, dibbed in advance and threatened to be 2v1 on two occasions, had our deal abused and broken by auto dibbing...and after all of this does AMA respond and bunch the ****players. So it took AMA 3+ ages of playing clean and fair and not punishing ****players to finally respond and people get pissed about it. So according to spectaters AMA needs to be eating ****play indefinitely and doing nothing about it. Pretty easy to see how this is reactionary vs. proactive ****playing which has been done to us FIRST (i.e. havoc 2v1, robbing into eow, gb, auto dibbing).

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there is no difference, ****play is ****play. Only person who threatened to power-play you or threatened you with 2 vs 1 was CR. Yet you ****play impacts KDs who did NOTHING to you and create even more enemies (ie Pyro). This is EXACT thing I explained last AGE, when instead of actioning a KD who you claimed intentionally farmed (which is what anymore who actually cared about fairplay would have done given the logic) but you actioned who you felt you could to gain some land from and secure Age. It blew up in your face, like it has every time before because you fail to understand what when you create an atmosphere where no ones word means anything or there is constantly ****play you get ****ed as much as everyone. Those razes by another KD you pissed off right when you didnt need it and costing your war vs Pyro is no ones fault but your own. Same with you CF and notice deal that Elit and you guys like to act like someone forced you into or tried to vulture you. You never had to agree to CF or anything else for that matter, to state otherwise and try to play the victim just makes you look pathetic. Sheesh.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Runefire

Clean and fair includes hitting in to war according to AMA?

Excellent news everybody!



Early posts in the thread state Pyro and Havoc CF's with AMA ended at the same time. So how could Havoc notice AMA in hostile/war with Pyro?

What they were saying was if they noticed AMA for war and AMA and Pyro went to war, they would hit in. Something AMA did in earlier ages and have argued is acceptable practice.

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If that was the case then AMA would have hit into ED's war last age when we controlled the top after they vultured us and arranged back-to-back fakewars to run and avoid having their cow farmed. Ultimately it was Fratzia that had hit into ED's war and not us even though we were screwed over by abuse of game mechanics to protect hit-and-run stolen cow acres.

How is it justifable to tell someone you are going to hit them regardless of what they are doing? A kingdom has multiple options regarding who they can fight and CFs are often arranged that way at times, if one kingdom wants to fight someone they cn serve notice like everyone else, check if their target is in hostile/war at end of notice, and if they are then they have to wait....Giving advanced notice 1 week early and telling other kd not to fight anyone else because "we are coming regardless" is clear dealbreak.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Runefire

Clean and fair includes hitting in to war according to AMA?

Excellent news everybody!



Early posts in the thread state Pyro and Havoc CF's with AMA ended at the same time. So how could Havoc notice AMA in hostile/war with Pyro?

What they were saying was if they noticed AMA for war and AMA and Pyro went to war, they would hit in. Something AMA did in earlier ages and have argued is acceptable practice.

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You see nothing wrong with ur post? rly? No dealbreaking, no bullying form Havoc side, no threatening? Or is it ok to notice a notice and say u gonna 2v1 no matter what the other kd will do. See a doctor, delete acc, sue ur folks or something. o.0

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PhoenixScorpion

there is no difference, ****play is ****play. Only person who threatened to power-play you or threatened you with 2 vs 1 was CR. Yet you ****play impacts KDs who did NOTHING to you and create even more enemies (ie Pyro). This is EXACT thing I explained last AGE, when instead of actioning a KD who you claimed intentionally farmed (which is what anymore who actually cared about fairplay would have done given the logic) but you actioned who you felt you could to gain some land from and secure Age. It blew up in your face, like it has every time before because you fail to understand what when you create an atmosphere where no ones word means anything or there is constantly ****play you get ****ed as much as everyone. Those razes by another KD you pissed off right when you didnt need it and costing your war vs Pyro is no ones fault but your own. Same with you CF and notice deal that Elit and you guys like to act like someone forced you into or tried to vulture you. You never had to agree to CF or anything else for that matter, to state otherwise and try to play the victim just makes you look pathetic. Sheesh.

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You disregarded the bulk of my statement. There is a difference in ****play, if you get ****played FIRST it is clearly worse than reacting to that ****play and fighting fire with fire. The problem here is if you let people ****play you but do not punish them for doing so they will have no incentive to stop doing it. Perfect case was when Bio kept 2v1ing Rage and we would just farm them 1v1, they looked like crap getting farmed 2v1 but did it again a few ages later because they never got Gbed and punished for it.

Same thing here, AMA endured 3 ages of ****play before finally doing something about it and responding with ****play of their own. When Havoc 2v1ed AMA, they received a fair 1v1 war from AMA the following age. Did they enjoy the fair play and become motivated to play clean? NO. They threatened to 2v1 us again this age. As you can see playing clean with people who ****play does not work, they will just keep on doing it to you again and again.

Please explain how Pyro was hurt or impacted by this and should become an enemy? Last time I checked, we extended a CF to Pyro for their fight with Simians without trying to hit them immediately after war even though we were engaged after wars this age by both Pewpew and RBL. As Pyro belongs to the same alliance, we could have said well 2/3 kds fought us after war, why don't we fight Pyro after war to show them how annoying it is since none of you guys consider it to be vulture. But what did we do instead...we CFED Pyro and made no attempt to vulture them. There is a post earlier in this thread from nesta commenting on our move to cf them, he said to him it was an act/gesture of fairness & good play rather than anything else considering we had a chance to position ourselves being bigger than pyro after war with Simians and attempt vulture but we did not.

We also played fair and clean with pewpew and RBL this age. When we won our wars we cfed both kingdoms after wars although they still had cow acres we can take and we did not force a B2B war on any of those kingdoms although we were not happy about being engaged immediately after war by both kingdoms as it is generally a ****ty situation to be found in and many consider it vulturing and it has been known to create grudges in the past.

So again how did we hurt pyro? Did we steal crown from pyro through ****play? No. Pyro was #2 and recently explored with minimal gc stacks compared to havoc and would need to fight and win either 1 or 2 wars to win. We did not steal a province crown form RBL either because whoever won the cow fight in AMA vs. Havoc, AMA vs. Pyro, or Havoc vs. Pyro would win the province crown, rather than a kingdom sitting outside of war.

If anything Pyro actually has a chance to crown *now* rather than being hurt by it.