Age 54 Potential Changes Rev II

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by UtopiaKarateKid

lol, it was just a day's time and the thread increases 5 pages long xD Actually the way I saw the races changes are like pairs, perhaps thats what the development team wanted for the next age.

Pair 1, Hybrids:
Avian - A/T
Dwarf - A/M

Pair 2, Super T/Ms:
Elf - Super Mage
Halfler - Super Thieve

Edited Pair 3, Strong Offence Attackers:
Orc - Strong Offence Attacker without oping ability and with better magic defence
Undead - Strong Offence Attacker with oping ability and without any t/m defence

Pair 4, T/Ms:
Faery - Quality T/M with bonus in Wpa Tpa and Damage
Human - Quantity T/M with bonus in Population and Damage


PS: Human actually doesn't lose his income strength totally. The +30% income is swifted towards the ToG spell which you will no longer see an inactive Human race with millions of gc, but with hundred of thousands of runes perhaps :p


Overall, you can see eventually there is no absolute way for a race to turtle and defence themselves like an unbreakable castle. Every races has its weaknesses and it is breakable.

But still, I am against the Elfs with extra manas and Nightmare spell as usual :\

---

I really like this analysis... until the end. I hope I'm not being defensive, as this age I'm playing an Elf/Mystic. Either way I'm not playing an Elf again next age, I just figured I'd give my input specifically on Elves since that's what I know best:

With these changes, Elf/Mystic should be specialized into duration spells, while Faeries hold the edge in instant/damage spells (+30%). Giving them NS isn't as big a deal as if they still had +30% instant damage... because as it is with these changes that is still a job ideally handled by Faeries.

Considering the nerf to their attacking ability, I really don't think the continued mana bonus/added NS is unwarranted. They should be capable of being good mages if they can't attack nearly as well. And it's not like we saw a ton of Elves the last 3 ages even with the mana bonus. So obviously the mana bonus isn't making the race overpowered!

I still think the Elf changes are perfect and the numbers behind them are perfect... it gives them purpose and significance as a support class! Before they were just sub-par attackers and sub-par mages. I, personally, don't mind them losing a little bit of one or the other to make them actually good at something.

My feedback is that It's a good balance this round except Human race.

Even with the +10% pop and the ability for Human to go purely leets, Human would still be very weak. Spending all peasants into leets would still be a very weak race, let alone trying to hybrid it into an A/t or an A/t (worst is A/t/m). I would recommend to remove the either the thievery bonus or magic bonus for humans (Humans are supposed to be weak at magic anyway) and give Human a 6/5 leets to balance out everything.

0.0 im honoured... thank you :)

I think dwarf should get +40% instant spell damage to parallel the avian's +40% thievery damage so that +30% (faery), +40% (avian/dwarf) and +50% (human) damage values are all in the game for both thief and mage damage.

Race Changes

Avian
-20% Attack Time
+40% thievery damage

- 10% attack gains
No Access to Stables

Spell book: Town Watch, Vermin
Elite: 7/2, 700gc, 6.25NW


Right now versus dwarf, orc, or undead avians are really left behind. They also lack more space to hybrid out as well. To tune them upwards i'd adjust their attack time back to 30%, up their elite to an 8/2, and bringing back Ver.1 war spoils. This gives them the ability to hybrid out easier and protect their valuable elites. War spoils normally is a risky move, but on an avian with incredibly fast speed and instant growth they could get their elites back in time, and a higher population with town watch, for a more sturdy defense. Not terribly stronger defense mind you but sturdy enough for them to plan their next surgical strike.


Dwarf
+ 10% BE
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings

+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available

Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW

Perfect. Simply perfect.


Elves
+50% WPA
+1 mana in war
+ 1 defence specialist strength

Spellbook: Pitfalls, Mages Fury, Amnesia, Nightmare
Elite: 6/4, 700gc, 6NW

Perfect as well.


Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW

All i'd do is remove the -2 from specs and change elite value to 3/7. With those faeries are in line with other races wanting to be TM with this race being the base, while others races specialize in one or the other.


Halflings
+50% TPA
+1 stealth
- 50% thief cost

-15% Birth Rate

Spellbook: Invisibility, Town Watch
Soldiers: 2/2
Elite: 5/6, 600gc, 5.75NW

Needs something to clean up space for a/T's but i'm stumped as to what as humans now have the pop bonus.


Humans
+10% Population
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)

Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW

Versatile race.


Orcs
+20% gains
Can train elites with credits

-50% Combat Instant Spell Damage and Sabotage Damage

Spellbook: Bloodlust, Fanaticism, Aggression, Shadowlight, Reflect Magic
Elite: 9/2, 850gc, 7.25NW

Strong race with no real definate negatives in it's primary role. Instead of the ops negatives put a +10% Enemy Operations Damage or Suffers 10% more casualties as a penalty to limit them in some way. The extra casualties they suffer are made up by their credits by gains and/or personality.


The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
No food needed

- 25% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 9/3, 1000gc, 7.5NW

I personally love the undead race but it's way overshadowed by orc and even dwarf for me. It takes two bonus slots for an effect that is either easily avoided, or very hard to guage. And it's specialist conversions work only on land based attacks while still suffering losses. I'd be happy to drop the elite to 8/3 or 7/4 at the same prices, leaving orc king for best attacking elite, to really up the virulence factor when undeads attack. They are penalized enough by the severe science limitations, but if the plague was left random on defensive hits/plagued provinces, but 100% plagues on successfull offensive strikes, it makes planning and coordinating attacks with this race just as important.

Personality Changes

The Merchant
+30% Income
-50% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks
Immunity to all Income Penalties (Riots, Plagues, etc.)


Great.

The Sage
+ 25% Science effectiveness
-66% Losses on Learn Attacks
Immune to The Plague

Nice. Needed a little nerfing and done without damaging the personality too much overall.

The Rogue
+1 Stealth recovery per tick
Access to all thievery operations, including 3 unique to rogues: Greater Arson, Assassinate Wizards and Propaganda
Thieves Dens are twice as effective (subject to DBE)

I'd remove the DBE penalty from this or up the power/difficulty of those 3 operations. While i've used them this round I used basic thievery operations a LOT more than I did these three due to the rest of the thieves operations being more useful. For example greater arson could destroy specific buildings and make them uninhabitable for a set ammount of hours. Barren land already has a spot in growth page so the timer on it could be seen from there. Assasinate wizards could stay as difficult since i'm expecting more a/m's next round. Propaganda honestly I'd rather see it be targetable like Greater Arson. This way you don't have operations in which you lose thieves but gain 0 of a type just because it's not there at the time or not even trained.


The Mystic
Access to Meteor Showers
All Guilds and Towers are twice as effective
+50% Spell Duration (For Duration Spells Only)
+1 mana per tick in War

Perfect.

The Warrior
+1 General
+15% OME in war
Enhanced Conquest range

Very nice.

The Tactician
Gain 50% more Specialist and Building Credits
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage (in war)

Very very nice!

The Cleric
- 50% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Animate Dead spell always active

I'd add a birth rate bonus on it as well to stimulate your province. Makes sense that a cleric on hand would ease childbirthing.

The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

It's still weak as a personality. For you to make it an honor based personality I'd add something on the line of "Gains 3 honor/tick" to it and remove the gains to honor. Honor is hard to come by and even harder to keep. The extra honor gained per hour would end up being 72 a day or 504 a week. If a province never fought, entered war, and stayed safe an entire age they would only be at 8556 honor by the end of the age. The chances of a province staying safe that long are slim to none, but would allow the province to slowly move back up the ladder to get the bonuses from it back again.

Quote:

---

The Warrior
+1 General
+15% OME in war
Enhanced Conquest range

The Tactician
Gain 50% more Specialist and Building Credits
-15% Attack Time
Accurate Espionage (in war)

The Cleric
- 50% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Animate Dead spell always active

The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

---

This is the first time in a while that there are 4 Attacker personalities. Just a couple ages back there were only 2 (War/Tact). Then Cleric was added and now War Hero. The bonus have been shuffled back and forth, but for the first time ever Warrior loses +15% Kills/-15% Losses.

Remove Cleric and buff the Attackers a little bit, trying to make it a warring game after all:

Quote:

---

The Warrior
-15% Your Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
+50% more bonuses from honor
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

The Tactician
Gain 50% more Specialist and Building Credits
-15% Attack Time
-50% Land Losses when Ambushed
Accurate Espionage (in war)

The War Hero
+1 General
+15% OME in war
+15% Enemy Military Casualties (on attack or defense)
Enhanced Conquest range

---

Jamaica are you sure you meant +50% enemy casualties? Seems like a lot :P

^ nomnomnom die fearies?

+50 military losses is totally impossible Jamaica. Kingdoms are spending millions of gc to build up an Emerald dragon which only give them +15% military casualty in war. Even if you want Pitfalls on a prov, you got to have an active Elf or Faery in your kd to help you do so. Eventually the Pitfall + the Emerald Dragon can't even give a bonus of over +50% casualty. Giving one personality a total of 50% would make both of them especially the Emerald Dragon a funny existence.

Same as (War Hero) Edited The Warrior. Could you imagine when this personality is used on Dwarfs? Building acres is free, military casualty is half, draft cost is half, your intention to encourage warring kds would most probably be abused. That feels more suit to a perfect exploring race.

The only suggested Tactician would seem a little bit acceptable, still it seems a bit too strong.

Change elf leets to 7/4, also change halfer leets to 6/6.

===Personalities===
Give Sage 1 free book per 5 acres (sorta nerfed compared to this age, that or the old +30% science effects or science discount.)

Give War Hero Free Credits per day amounting to 3-5% of their current acres in war.
[1k prov getting 30-50 creds per tick = 1440-2400 spec creds in 48hrs min time war]
not too shabby, not very overpowered either. nice bonus on top of current creds, stacks nicely with -50% train time.
(Its a war hero right, don't soldiers instinctively want to fight better for the war hero some sort?)
(Also interesting when a few war hero's can kill dragon from free creds and fast training)

Give Cleric an incentive, such that all offensive losses are turned to soldiers in returning army.
(Something like no actual numerical troop losses, an Animate Dead which works offensively.)

===Races===
Human seems tad weak on the elite though its cheaper. How about 6/5 to mirror halfling's 5/6?
even better, give halflings and humans 6/6 and see what happens, since they both seem nerfed for nerfing's sake.

Don't think Humans should get + 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells).
Off-color, like its a possible permutation thrown in just for its sake.
(Elves should get that, no?)

Reflect magic on Orcs is a tad off color if elves dont have it. Can they both have it, if Orcs absolutely MUST have RM this round?
Make Elves immune to reflect magic or something.
Something like piercing truecast, unblockable by mystic aura so Elf can still pierce Faery but not other way around.

Think Dorfs should get more BE to be on-color, like 20% BE.
Dorfs seem like the traditional A/M race, which i think is on-color.

Give Avians the ability to pierce Clearsight, and cast Clearsight themselves for some thievery grant somesort, since its likely Dorf wpa is harder for avians to get through, for balance.

How about elite conversions for all Undead attacks, say maybe 5% cap. Trads get 5% bonus or something. Pure specs get you another 3% bonus conversion bellcurved proportionately scaled to the amount of army you send. At least there is an incentive for Undead to hit other forms of attacks and not feel stymied just because they aren't making a land hit and have to necessarily grow weaker.

The Merchant
+30% Income
-80% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks /give a real possibility to store gc

Dwarf
+ 20% BE /10% feels like nothing
+ 30% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)
Free Building Construction
Can use credits to raze buildings

+ 50% Food consumption
Accelerated Construction not available

Spell book: Quick Feet, Fanaticism, Fools Gold, Clearsight
Elite: 7/3, 750gc, 6.5NW

Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

+10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -1

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 2000gc, 7.5NW (elite to cost more because of +10 pop +1spec, in range 1200-2000 ,someone else balance this,probably 1500)
:)

Humans
+15% Population (they feel weak with 10%)
+ 50% Thievery Damage (Sabotage Ops)
+ 50% Spell Damage (Instant Spells)

Spellbook: Tree of Gold, Fountain of Knowledge, War Spoils
Elite: 5/5, 500gc, 5.5NW

The Undead
-50% Offensive losses on attacks you make
Successful land attacks convert specialists to elites
Spreads and is immune to The Plague
10% food needed in the form of killed units~ (not serious just funny hint)

- 25% science effectiveness

Spellbook: Greater Protection, Town Watch, Animate Dead, Chastity
Elite: 10/3, 1200gc, 8?NW (not so good perhaps. mis warspoils)

The Warrior
+1 General
(+10% OME in war)
Enhanced Conquest range + not effected by networth ( cq not effected by networth (cq hit calc as equal net hit), war only? )

The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor (max honor loss per hit 50 points???) (Just a hint, someone else balance)
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

pls tell why not in case disagreeing

edit ************'
Better faery perhaps
Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

-10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -2

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 4/8, 1000gc, 7.5NW (to give some attack ability to counter Offensive Specialist Strength -2)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoreWars

The Merchant
+30% Income
-80% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks

---

Might as well make them immune to plunders

Quote:

---

Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

+10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -1

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 2000gc, 7.5NW

---

Fae does not need extra pop and 2K per elite is a joke.

Quote:

---

The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor (max honor loss per hit 50 points???)
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

---

lol @ max 50 points of honor lost

wow, that is the most retarded set of proposals I have ever seen. I usually try to be positive in my critiques but wow. Are you actually being serious?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoreWars

The Merchant
+30% Income
-80% Money Losses on Plunder Attacks

---

-80% is a bit much. Sage had -75% and it's getting a sizable nerf. Considering that money can be freely bounced around via Aid, Merchant is fine as-is.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoreWars

Faery
+30% damage on spells and ops
+30% WPA and TPA

+10% Population
Offensive Specialist Strength -1

Spellbook: All racial spells
Elite: 3/8, 2000gc, 7.5NW

---

Ummm.... No. Just no. Beastmasters are already the most expensive Elite in the game and you want to DOUBLE their cost?!? And the last thing Faeries need (with their stats and mods) is INCREASED population.


I've already commented about Humans and Undead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoreWars

The Warrior
+1 General
+15% OME in war
Enhanced Conquest range + not effected by networth

---

What are you smoking? (And where do I get some?)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MoreWars

The War Hero
+50% more bonuses from honor (max honor loss per hit 50 points???)
-50% draft cost
-50% train time

---

This idea actually has potential. Not saying that it's a GOOD idea, but it has potential.