Again, stop putting words into my mouth. I'm simply stating a reality of reason, not defending the morality of the decision.
Printable View
Again, stop putting words into my mouth. I'm simply stating a reality of reason, not defending the morality of the decision.
It is not a highly unlikely scenario that hundreds of thousands of Americans would die, not to mention millions of japanese soldiers and civilians. Casualties were pretty big against Japan, they fought hard. I don't remember the exact estimate but the Americans counted on losing 500000 soldiers or something in an invasion against Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
I believe they did right by nuking Japan, saving millions of lives.
But whatever the cost? No way. One should always try to spare civilians, something USA failed in Iraq and Afghanistan, thus the opinion went against them in both those countries and in the world.
Soldiers, soldiers are always prepared to die for their country civilians not so much.
US soldiers, Japanese soldiers, AND Japanese civilians would have died in the invasion. Those 3 are a guarantee, and extending the war of course puts US citizens at risk as well. The choice was actually fairly simple: the death of Japanese civilians vs the deaths of Japanese civilians, Japanese troops, US troops, and potential deaths of US civilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Do you really grasp the consequense of the nukes? a snippet from Wiki " Another study states that from 1950 to 2000, 46% of leukemia deaths and 11% of solid cancer deaths among bomb survivors were due to radiation from the bombs, the statistical excess being estimated to 94 leukemia and 848 solid cancers" It wasnt just he people that died on impact, or died from the debris, or fire or any direct of the nukes.
As I said, hindsight is 20/20. You have to reason the decision based on the time it was made, not now looking back at years of data.
Nice how you pick one phrase and dismiss my whole argument based on it =)Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
Sorry to rub it but D-day was a joke. Only remarkable thing about it was logistics involved and magnitude of the terrain it covered ... which again is logistics. Military wise it was a joke operation where allied troops formed high density points of advance and overrun poorly manned and equiped german forces. You thinking it was something more than that is because you like most modern (not only americans) people are educated by selective history. When I say it was joke it obviously has to be a joke compared to SOMETHING ... that something beeing eastern front in this case.
At the time it went went down Wermacht was allready smashed by SSSR and what allies faced in western europe were mostly kids and old men.
Like I said earlier ... if you want to find out what and who ended war in europe read up on Eastern front, sieges on Leningrad and Stalingrad and battle of Kursk are great examples of magnitude of troops, casualties and firepower involved there. Most people doesnt realize that 90% of german forces were fighting on the eastern front since it doesnt get coverage by western media and hollywood. Famed Battle of the Bulge were dime a dosen there and would be treated like a skirmish on eastern front ... I kid you not.
On the topic of a-bombs I gotta side with americans here. You all look at it from this point in time knowin all the consequences of detonating a-bomb above town ... you gotta realize nobody was rly aware of the long term consequences it would inflict ... its easy to look back and judge.
You have same attitude to civilian victims ... nobody gave a s**t about civilians in ww2 ... it was just the way things were back than. Germans had no issues bombing London, allies leveled entire Dresden to the ground and nobody to this day knows how many ppl died in that apocalypse with all the refugees that were located there ... even when the topic is Japan and A-bomb nobody mentions that 100k+ civilians burned to ashes in Tokyo in one night after USA bombed it with napalm. And lets not even mention Leningrad and up to 2M casualties that took place there during the siege ... in all seriousness nobody cared about some crappy Japanese town and even if they knew EXACTLY what effects droping A-bomb would have there they still wouldnt care.
In all the atrocities and casualties that toook place in ww2 droping a-bomb was drop of water in a sea of civilian casualties and it was completelly justified to kill 100k civilians to avoid loosing half a milion soliders in invasion of Japan mainland.
Now if some1 wants to quote one sentence here I am sure there are plenty of them that would make me look like a monster so be my guest, but you gotta look things in perspective ... and when perspective was ww2 bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not a big deal.
Okay.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
OMG guys look what cita just said!Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
stoffi you are just lieing idiot nothing more. you were never in special forces as i said you maybe special ed. i dont need to look up wikipida or what ever its called. i know this kinda of stuff i can tell you enough about firearms to fill serveral books. not only can i use american millitary arms they also trained me to use enemy weapon sytems. oh and your special forces uses the glock 17 2nd gen it fires the 9x 19 whitch is a 9mm luger or parabelum if you prefer. how can you sit there and tell me you are special forces and not know that. lol by the way i looked at the list of weapons your country uses and im trained to use most of them. how can you say your country dosnt use a 9mm luger you do know its a nato round right, along with 762x51 and 556x45 by the way that breaks down to 308 and 223 rem. you are a fruad nothing more .enough of this petchulant child, your not good enough to shine the boots of your counties special forces
Still going at it in your penis contest? How good for you that you are trained in the use of several weapon systems. Who isn't? But it sure is a good achievement for a prison guard, since you needed to brag about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Agronaut
Regular forces in Norway use the Glock, special forces don't. :)
Your penis is getting smaller by the day here, Agronaut the prisonguard.
like i had said before it would have been alot worse if japan wasnt bombed. the estimated casualties on our side were actually going to be arround 1,000,000 men. i have seen video of japanese training kids to use small spears to attack the millitary if there was an invasion.how long before they would have surendered? who knows but the death toll would have been massive and alot of them would have been civilians. i think mistakes were made on our side. i think the bombs should have been dropped on okinawa the deaths would have been mostly japanese millitary. we would have saved alot of our own guys and there wouldnt have been hardly any civilian losses.little boy and fat man were both finished just before the invasion of okinawa.
i dont think so citadela, only divisions that were not regulars was the 714th. rommel was also there with his 21st Panzer Division suported by the SS. the reason it went so well is simple. we tricked them into thinking the invasion would take place alot farther up the coast. before the invasion we dropped alot of airborn behind enemy lines to cut off thier comunications. so when the invasion took place most german millitary didnt have a clue what was going on much less our location.
lol the Wermacht wasnt smashed they were out flanked by over 250,000 russians with brand new t34s. they held the line for as long as they could being out numbered. hitler being the idiot that he was wouldnt allow them to withdraw. in the end when the flank gave way they were boxed in. it was like shooting fish in a barrel.
Norwegian Armed Forces (FSK)
H&K G36 (Gewehr36)
1997?present
Glock P80/17
1988?present
thats from my nato hand book moron. that is also what the D.O.D says they carried when training with our 10th Special Forces
so what my uncle got me a summer job when i got home what does that have to do with anything.
you are simply busted for being a fake. get over it and cry to someone else. stop talking about penises it just makes you look even more retarded. if you are going to keep going on pretending atleast read a book on what you lie about. my god anyone in the millitary weather american or western europe would know a 9x19 9mm luger and 9mm parabelum and 9mm nato are all the same thing. yet you are special forces and have no clue
aww poor stoffi is getting mad because hes busted being a fake. wow agronuat the prisonguard lol i was also a chicken cook when i was 16 try that one.
That's enough of the personal attacks.
We're losing all secularism which is a disgrace to the founding fathers this country was built on the idea that religion has no place in decision making process for what is right for a nation, its sad and we need to reinforce secularism in this country, nothing against religion it just doesnt belong in politics
Quote:
Originally Posted by Agronaut
You shouldn't get so upset that my penis obviously is longer than yours, stop the name-calling.
Your NATO hand book is W R O N G in many ways, and outdated.
First of all, Norwegian Armed Force (FSK), what's that supposed to mean? FSK = one of our special forces units and Norwegian Armed Forces is pretty damn general.
G36, not used by special forces in Norway. Maybe in 1997, I don't know, but not when I was there and not now.
Glock, not the main small arm. Maybe it was in 1988, I don't know.
DOD didn't say squat about the weapons used by Norwegian SF as they rarely speak about them and never say anything about their capabilities.
Here's a link from wikipedia about SF: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forsvar...mmando#Weapons
Wikipedia don't know everything and they would have gotten this information from outside sources who have observed SF, not SF itself. As you see, neither Glock or G36 is mentioned here.
Also, there is a limit to what kind of special forces I can be when I'm a conscript(you can't be sent to a foreign country) and also the role of the position you get.
I'd scrap that nato hand book of yours if I were you. :p
My tip for you, stop being so arrogant and dead sure about everything. I've shown you time after time that you are mistaken and yet you keep making the same mistake over and over again. There are a lot of things you can't know, no matter if you're a hillbilly redneck or a Norwegian student.