flogger didQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
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flogger didQuote:
Originally Posted by Palem
He got a farm war, you can't count on that to push you to #1 and ahead of the other cows.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I'm not talking about being #1 in the world. I'm talking about being an effective bank. #1 in the world is just a bonus lol
effective bank and #1 are not that independent, esp if you go faery.
vis-a-vis 1 v 1 in a bank battle, Faery cannot compete. However, thanks to simians, the faery is viable now. Nevertheless, as DHaran says, you can't exactly count on running into a farm war to secure footing for your bank.
Any bank is effective vs a non-bank kd nublet. Against other cows the Fae wouldn't have been ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
EDIT: ^ see Realest's post above.
Maybe the war doesn't last as long if they had a bank with more offense and more income, like human merchant. I don't think the feary was 4x'ing simians 10k acre guys.Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomeness
It was late war the bank became more effective hitting x2 vs our biggest elf.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
Before this his damage was small scale. But in the other hand i think we would have been able to FB a human merchant in an effective way. Maybe even NM it open to break it down start of war.
Sancs bank was stronger then we imagined it to be. He managed to train up faster then we estimated and had way better t/m protection then we estimated him to have. Our goal was to farm the banks acres. The talks in our channel was about this useless bank and how we would steal its acres. We failed our goal to take it down and thus failed the war.
Odd ... I don't know about you ... but I have no international texting plan. .. loll I spend $25.00 in Google voices minutes to call and a heighten phone bill at the cost of $170.00 from just texting. Whatapps can only do so much texting to grab someone attention, gotta get that voice call.
2 different kind of cows, a defensive cow and an offensive cow ... a defensive cow is rarely used ... only a few kingdom has done it properly ... fratz and hoh did it once.
This war broke down into separate fights at the bottom, middle, and top tier.
The middle tier is where most acres are exchanged, and in short wars it's the determining factor. In this war though it really wasn't, because neither core was able to gain any advantage or (with rare exceptions) influence the fight at the top. If one core got a little bigger, that was just more acres for the other core to take back on followup waves. Sanc didn't have a chance at unbreakables because of orc defense, and simians had only a very small chance - that we were careful to make sure never happened. However, it is significant that simians focused most of their faery ops on the core - doing NM+NS chains - which they may have needed just to break even in acres but that limited them greatly at the top.
The bottom tier is where provinces can actually be disabled, and some people say it's the determining factor of long wars. Early in the war Simians had 3 sanc provinces on land defense. They experimented with massacre and learn, and managed to drop Ducktales to ~60k networth with no thieves or science. They tried NS, but NS'ing a province at 60k networth is not effective and the Simians provinces in range didn't have very effective thieves either. In focusing so much on ducktales, we were able to get defense on our other two chainees and pull them away. Then ducktales managed to get a brief interval of pop space, which he used to train up 4k dspecs and become unbreakable to the other side's top chainee, millennium falcon. Falcon was forced to topfeed on bigger no-def provinces, leaving him low defense, which let us hit him down to 200 acres and 50k networth. Falcon was not a very good player, having released troops on our first chain on him and again in subsequent chains. In doing so though he managed to get below us in networth with plenty of wizards, letting him pile up count honor which we could never take (again, due to networth difference). A day later, we managed to chain elf down low as well - he had a brief interval where he could have double-tapped and thwarted things, but here his activity failed him and he was slightly late. When he did hit, it was a low-gains single, we got him down to 200 acres, a lot of troops deserted - but it left him on huge wpa. The next time he hit (for low gains) we began mass-massacring him, eventually to the point where we got only 150 kills per massacre. Once that was done, we massacred Falcon all home to the same point. Both provinces were now under 40k networth, couldn't break anyone, and were non-factors. Simians still had the chance of getting our guys down to land defense which would allow them to quad-tap, but they wouldn't be in range. This also left zeta in a 3-on-1 situation against our other small provinces, whom we were careful not to let him double-tap. Zeta was a better player and couldn't be disabled the same way as the others (he had way too much defense), but in dropping him to 40 acres a wave in gains he wasn't really a factor for the last few days. Mchammer was the fourth chainee, whom we chained down to 200 acres and were on the verge of treating the same way as elf when they withdrew. Having disabled many of their smalls gave us the breathing room for our smalls to get further pop space to take aid, so that we could try to keep our guys on 20-25k minimum defense. Over time this might have let Sanc win the battle of the core, but it's very debatable; no matter what we did simians could always NM chain down one guy a wave for huge gains.
The battle at the top was a stalemate for the longest time. Simians had the stronger edge, having 5 unbreakable attackers (3 elf mystics and 2 avian merchants). These guys were 4-6k acres at the start of the war but grew very steadily. To counter this sanc had 1 faery cow and 3 3700-acre faery t/ms. We tried several strategies, but what was eventually the most successful was simply AW+LL from our faeries. Eventually the three faery t/ms grew to 8-10k acres as they are now. After AW, we repeatedly tried fireball (with orcs, quite costly) on their bigs; however they trained up high tpa on their guys to counter our faeries (unsuccessful) which allowed them to just kidnap back from our orcs. Fireball was not able to completely disable any of them but was only able to slow them down. However, since simians was only able to hit our core with their unbreakables, their gains never rose as the war went on - in fact as the core shrunk, their gains shrunk likewise. Meanwhile sanc who was taking acres (albeit much more slowly) from their unbreakables with our faeries, saw our gains rising over time. Simians did try conquesting our faeries, during a moment when we were incautious, taking about 1k off of the smallest one. But conquest, though strong in certain defense ranges, proved ineffective once the defense was high enough even though becoming fully "unbreakable" was never an option. Meanwhile our cow, who had been hitting for ~200 acres a wave at the start of the war, began training mass ospecs later on and was up to 650 acres a wave in gains at the end. We may have made a mistake by over-aiding with our cow early on, when training those ospecs would have let us either end the war faster or grow the cow faster. The cow could not be effectively fireballed by simians faeries (his wpa rose over time, despite growing acres), and they never had a chance at conquest either. However the statements that simians "handed us a province crown" are inaccurate - if we'd spent the last 17 days OOW with the cow exploring, he would today be around 24k acres. The rules change to double the cost of exploring may have been intended to thwart cows, but it actually has the opposite effect - cows are now the only provinces that can afford to explore.
Winning the battle of the smalls may have given us some edge and was great for morale, and pulling ahead in the battle of the bigs lead to us passing them in networth and reaching the +1M mark right when they withdrew. I had told anri that we'd withdraw if simians could get to +1M networth, so I like to think that this was an honorable withdraw by simians that upheld the same standard. However it is also true that simians activity dropped near the end, not only over the weekend but even afterwards. Sanc's activity more or less steadily rose over the course of the war. Simians NM waves were certainly a lot more draining on leadership, compared to our army-in-army-out where we only chained when we saw an opportunity for profit and heavy desertion.
Both kingdoms should be in pretty good shape after the war. Anyone looking to vulture will have to deal with tons of huge unbreakable high-econ provinces. Simians tiny provinces may have a tough time regrowing, but sanc's little orcs mostly have absurd amounts of elite credits piled up and should be able to shoot up in size. Both will be able to get plenty of aid I'm sure.
great summary ^
A human cow would easily have been fireballed in this war, if not nightmared, and we've have either lost him or had to withdraw to prevent losing him to simians' bigs. Human would also have been smaller, due to the lower income - he could not have explored as many acres as quickly as the faery did. Faery gets +87.5% wpa versus human which is absurd. They landed 5-10% of their fireballs with the faeries, and the occasional explosions or MS, before giving up. Later they just did periodic explosions, which was fairly damaging really but just forced the cow to train or pay dragons. For most of the war it would have taken the cow 9 hours to pay a dragon solo, the same amount of time it took simians' kingdom. Slaying a dragon income-wise would take about 12 hours, however getting the soldiers would take 24 hours (on emergency and putting half the cow's income into training). Despite previous claims, faery is much better at slaying than another cow would be, because ospecs are far superior for slaying than dspecs. If a human trains dspecs, it's probably because they need the defense; training more dspecs than you need is costly. Training more ospecs than you need, lets you hit with them while you wait for a new dragon. Even so, slaying more than one dragon a week isn't really viable - it just takes too long to redraft.
Faery is just absurd in general. Sitting in postwar now our cow has 150 gc/acre net hourly income, with about 10 non-peasants per acre. That will rise once BE maxes. We should have land lusted more to get to baron though...farming 1 honor/op from a province 1/100 his networth just didn't cut it.
Great summary Jdorje.
I must say that this entire war i feared that you would conquest down our faerys or keep hitting the ones you could break further down before we pumped extra def in them. I think this way you would have won the easiest and quickest way. I told Baka to edit his post where he suggested this strat because i knew how destructive it would be for us. :)
We did not see much returns from hitting your faeries, other than forcing them to LL instead of NM. Most of the war it was standing orders that anyone who could break a faery should do so, but by the end even your 2k faeries had more defense than your 9k provinces. Conquest really isn't viable for orc tactician economically, so that didn't seem an option. Later in the war we probably would have started massacring with our cow. We maybe could have ended the war faster by doing a bunch of cow & orc massacres on your smallest faery, which was breakable - but at a significant cost in land.
Oddly I was also afraid you'd start conquesting our faeries, which you eventually did. Fortunately you conquested the one that had +12M tb.
Who else thinks jdorje should become a News Reporter? :)
noo .... jd is already having a hard time gettin up to attack =P he too old ... dun give him extra work =P
Dorje is pro. I've played "since boats", but he's still better than me in probably every respect. Deana's a "female" though, so who knows about her.
Long-term leadership just isn't my strong suit, though.
oh what? Simian lost? gg for expecting 10/10 war wins. and yes i expected Sanctuary to win in the first place.
Not sure where you got that number. i was thinking an age with 5/5 wins in t5 would be cool. Its almost impossible. not sure if anyone did it before. we failed now anyway soo. hahaQuote:
Originally Posted by magixxx
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Its ok Anri, I still think ur boss.
anri still troll king n simians still utopia police.
This war was a great one and low sleep for me, I was doing my best, but in the last 24h , only 6-8 ppl show at waves where 15-25 did show the week befor , this made me WD nothing else there AW was OP no question this was the 2 factor we WD as there LL was insain , All cred to all the players in this war it was epic and long well fight both sides , see you an other time mabe we then also have AW in our bucket and can force a WD from you :P
Now its time to replace the 4 ppl that quit mid war , we hade them on sitting so we still hade 25 provs to fight with , In the end our activety was the main factor to WD and the AW+LL .
Agin thanks for a good war and see you an other time gl with the age Sanc.
You got my respect for having some sense of humor. proteus should learn from Anri the great.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Keep laughing. 2/3 t5 wins is more then most get any given age in the top and age is not over. who to hell are you anyway? We got two wins and almost a third. Still happy about this age. lots of fun!
I kill you!
sensitive a bit Troll King? relax, war is over, have some fun with your many friends and hot gf and spend some of the money from your good job. its not that serious this utopia business!
well i just left work so soon time for a glas of whiskey and enjoy this weekend.
Tattaaaa cheers
LOL. you'll never know for sure who i am really. But i know my history war wins owns urs. 2/3 and you called it top performance? you could only bluff a little kid with that statement. try harder. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Anri
y u so mad troll king? need whiskey to drown your sorrow after the defeat?
nahhh i am happy and the whiskey is madQuote:
Originally Posted by Awesomeness
troll king, its ok. we forgive you.
oh hai^^