Proposal to end he Awar

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Originally Posted by Sheister

2/3 of a law student maybe....

95% of law school grads are actually useless as lawyers because they are kids with no idea what life is like for their clients... To call them lawyers is kind. About three years out form law school after they have lived a little, they become lawyers.

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https://storiesinyourhead.files.word.../annie-sad.png

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Originally Posted by Mithras

You accepted compensation for the transgressions.
You made a cf with the intent to dealbreak after everything was in the open.
You trumphed up a full conspiracy that never existed.
You kept spies in our LS chan.

Add to that the full dealbreak. The 2 on 1. Hitting into war. Lying to other kds to support you.

Nah, you probably did nothing. Except everything you accused us for. Times a hundred?

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We made a cf knowing we could dealbreak after. You all refusing to even punish your retirement ghettos growth ain't our fault. It's your failed diplomacy. I left the diplomacy with your leaders with them fully aware that nothing was resolved.

We aren't lying to the kds on our side and we don't have spies. Just one of 12 that has the common sense to admit Ya did wrong.

Isn't every cf made knowing you can dealbreak after?

Ok, so you took the compensation offered. You not only agreed to a cf but you actualy offered it yourself. But nothing was resolved?

Also, if you don't have spies you decline the offer of information offered by spies. If you take the intel they offer, voila and grats, you now have a spy. If you then also protects the spys identity, you also intend to use him again.

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Originally Posted by Palem

Isn't every cf made knowing you can dealbreak after?

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Sure, except I dunno around 3-4 days after making my thread was the last i did diplom on the matter. Emeriti was making proposals by saying "is this enough for you to honor the existing deal?" And I never said yes. This was asked numerous times. We never had a resolution (the last offer being bour take himself out, which they said no) and diplomacy stopped. If you're asking that question 5 times in the matter of an hour, clearly you know a dealbreak is on the table and you should continue trying to do diplo. They didn't.

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Originally Posted by flogger

Sure, except I dunno around 3-4 days after making my thread was the last i did diplom on the matter. Emeriti was making proposals by saying "is this enough for you to honor the existing deal?" And I never said yes. This was asked numerous times. We never had a resolution (the last offer being bour take himself out, which they said no) and diplomacy stopped. If you're asking that question 5 times in the matter of an hour, clearly you know a dealbreak is on the table and you should continue trying to do diplo. They didn't.

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Ok, learning alot here.

1: When dealing with flogger don't focus on the deal but try to second guess what he means
2: When flogger makes a deal he always reserves the right to break it if he feels that is a better option
3: When trying to do the right thing with flogger he will always accept what you offer but keeps it a secret if matters is resolved or not.
4: Flogger will not tell you what he wants cuz if he does and he gets it he can't dealbreak with credibility
5: Flogger will stall diplo indefinetly by not stating what he wants so that he can blame the opponent for not doing diplo

The mere fact that "is this enough for you to honor the existing deal?" was asked five times clearly shows that Emeriti did everything they could to compensate Flogger but since that Flogger already was set on a dealbreak no matter what it was more important to him to keep emeriti in the dark than any form of compensation. If you want the dealbreak that bad, then there will be a dealbreak. But to blame it on emeriti is just lame.

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Originally Posted by flogger

Sure, except I dunno around 3-4 days after making my thread was the last i did diplom on the matter. Emeriti was making proposals by saying "is this enough for you to honor the existing deal?" And I never said yes. This was asked numerous times. We never had a resolution (the last offer being bour take himself out, which they said no) and diplomacy stopped. If you're asking that question 5 times in the matter of an hour, clearly you know a dealbreak is on the table and you should continue trying to do diplo. They didn't.

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What you're saying is, if you don't explicitly agree to not dealbreak, you can dealbreak?

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Originally Posted by Palem

What you're saying is, if you don't explicitly agree to not dealbreak, you can dealbreak?

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To act as if it's your standard utopian diplo after a 20 page thread over the first top eow mass razing I can recall is just silly

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Originally Posted by Mithras

Ok, learning alot here.

1: When dealing with flogger don't focus on the deal but try to second guess what he means
2: When flogger makes a deal he always reserves the right to break it if he feels that is a better option
3: When trying to do the right thing with flogger he will always accept what you offer but keeps it a secret if matters is resolved or not.
4: Flogger will not tell you what he wants cuz if he does and he gets it he can't dealbreak with credibility
5: Flogger will stall diplo indefinetly by not stating what he wants so that he can blame the opponent for not doing diplo

The mere fact that "is this enough for you to honor the existing deal?" was asked five times clearly shows that Emeriti did everything they could to compensate Flogger but since that Flogger already was set on a dealbreak no matter what it was more important to him to keep emeriti in the dark than any form of compensation. If you want the dealbreak that bad, then there will be a dealbreak. But to blame it on emeriti is just lame.

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Holy terrible logic batman

#willnotgetdrawnintowallofterribletext
#willnotgetdrawnintowallofterribletext

But to answer your question Mithras, anyone with experience isnt having to guess what my intentions were. The dense crowd that currently sits in emeriti's council these days are clueless, but I was doing diplo with zauper at that point and he's not clueless.

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Originally Posted by flogger

Holy terrible logic batman

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Hell man, enlighten me. You make zero sense so far. Really want to know what you actualy mean. I can't use any other info about your reasoning than the info you give me.

So far I have:
You dealbroke us cuz we didn't do enough to prevent it even though we asked you what you wanted to not do it. You didn't say anything and went along and did it. Logic says you really wanted it, no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

Hell man, enlighten me. You make zero sense so far. Really want to know what you actualy mean. I can't use any other info about your reasoning than the info you give me.

So far I have:
You dealbroke us cuz we didn't do enough to prevent it even though we asked you what you wanted to not do it. You didn't say anything and went along and did it. Logic says you really wanted it, no matter what.

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Let's start with "we didn't know what you wanted". Diplo ended with me saying we would be fine with bour killing himself, which we Coulda done in 2 waves ourselves but didn't want to be stuck with his ops for 3 weeks which just gifts you a crown. This was the last and least punitive and most reasonable offer we made, which was rejected by Asf and later rejected by zauper when communicating with your council.

After which diplomacy stopped as you didn't offer us anyone to punish for what we thought was incredible ****play.

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Originally Posted by flogger

Let's start with "we didn't know what you wanted". Diplo ended with me saying we would be fine with bour killing himself, which we Coulda done in 2 waves ourselves but didn't want to be stuck with his ops for 3 weeks which just gifts you a crown. This was the last and least punitive and most reasonable offer we made, which was rejected by Asf and later rejected by zauper when communicating with your council.

After which diplomacy stopped as you didn't offer us anyone to punish for what we thought was incredible ****play.

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That can't be right since you took acres from Bour as compensation for what he did and then cfed

And how can you consider killing someone to be a reasonable punishment for 300 ish acre worth of hits when you already had taken like ten times that back? A bit unsure of the actual numbers but you gained alot more than you lost. In my book that would count as acres gained not as something to kill someone over?

Ummm, no bour ran into a war and we couldn't do anything for 6 days. By that time, yes our plans were set 10+ days after the hits. But I had long since stopped doing diplo by then. That diplo was just between prot and bour and the diplo between me and emeriti had been dead for a week.

Ok, so now you want to say that your actions and BB are not related to each other?

Or do you mean that you didn't take any acres from bour?

I will say if it were up to me I wouldn't have taken bours acres 10 days after the fact, but i never strongly said not to either. we had to close that diplo one way or another it was 10 days. I think the stronger message is not taking any acres to make a point, but I was slacking and didn't care much either way once we had the logs and bour wasn't gonna take himself out.

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Originally Posted by flogger

Ummm, no bour ran into a war and we couldn't do anything for 6 days. By that time, yes our plans were set 10+ days after the hits. But I had long since stopped doing diplo by then. That diplo was just between prot and bour and the diplo between me and emeriti had been dead for a week.

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Flogger
"Our whole leadership chan shows our intention to dealbreak the second we knew it was bourreau

AquaSeaFoam
"So my point is that if you knew who it was when you made the deal and you planned to deal break from the time you knew who it was, then you made the deal with the intention of breaking it"

Flogger
"Of course, 100% no denial"

It's convenient that ASF ignores the fact on more than one occasion Absalom leadership people cheated more than he claimed... will we see a I wasn't aware" now?

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Originally Posted by AquaSeaFoam

Flogger
"Our whole leadership chan shows our intention to dealbreak the second we knew it was bourreau

AquaSeaFoam
"So my point is that if you knew who it was when you made the deal and you planned to deal break from the time you knew who it was, then you made the deal with the intention of breaking it"

Flogger
"Of course, 100% no denial"

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I still gave you multiple days of diplo to remedy the situation and you offerred us nothing and rejected every proposal we made. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to want to kill you once we knew who it was. It's pretty hard for us to rally 5 kingdoms if your guy bites the bullet. You just aren't good enough at the diplomacy part to realize that, you've never had to give anything since you've always had the numbers.

For the record, cj has seen the unedited logs of our leadership channel from about 12 hours before we got hit to the second prot discovered it was bourreau and i said the line "that's a holy **** abs can get ganged moment"

So attempting to make our leadership out to look like unreasonable assholes is not really going to work because from the second we got hit i did two things:

1) try and convince the leadership to throw everything else aside and burn bour to the ground because I felt hitting into eow was an egregious offense. I mentioned cf'ing abs immediately and I've since posted logs of leshrak ignoring me for 16 hours. Your attempts to make me look bad by agreeing to a cf and then break it are silly since a neutral party knows my intentions and its your monarch that took a day to get back to me and it was within that day we found out who it was.

2) tell everyone in my chan abs had nothing to do with it because I mistakenly thought they had some class

This is why I was so quick to accept your offer of a mutual leadership log posting, which you have since backed out of because it contains tons of talk of you justifying hitting into eow because you think it's imbalanced and you wanting to solve the situation by just farming bourreau yourself

Boom

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Originally Posted by flogger

I still gave you multiple days of diplo to remedy the situation and you offerred us nothing and rejected every proposal we made. I don't think it's unreasonable for us to want to kill you once we knew who it was. It's pretty hard for us to rally 5 kingdoms if your guy bites the bullet. You just aren't good enough at the diplomacy part to realize that, you've never had to give anything since you've always had the numbers.

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The only proposal that was rejected was that you insisted Emeriti drop out of the top and give up on competing already in YR1. Emeriti offered their own land to Bb, gc, whatever adjusted cf terms BB wanted, and whatever Bb felt needed to ensure their position was not harmed. You are the one who rejected all offers and whenever one of your offers was going to be accepted, you would change it to say that was only one part of your conditions and then add in a bunch more ridiculous stuff. Since you had already decided on deal break from the first day Bour hit you, it's clear why you didn't want to fix the situation.


You have said many times that you and Protector are the only leaders in BB and most leadership talk in BB is done between you and protector only. You refused to share your logs with protector and that's what killed the deal. Emeriti has wanted to release their full logs since well before you posted any logs and before your deal break. In addition, it would be impossible to post unedited logs due to locs so they'd all have to be edited and you've proven that you're not trustable.

Flogger
"Youre not gonna get the pm logs of me and protector."

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Originally Posted by flogger

For the record, cj has seen the unedited logs of our leadership channel from about 12 hours before we got hit to the second prot discovered it was bourreau and i said the line "that's a holy **** abs can get ganged moment"

So attempting to make our leadership out to look like unreasonable assholes is not really going to work because from the second we got hit i did two things:

1) try and convince the leadership to throw everything else aside and burn bour to the ground because I felt hitting into eow was an egregious offense. I mentioned cf'ing abs immediately and I've since posted logs of leshrak ignoring me for 16 hours. Your attempts to make me look bad by agreeing to a cf and then break it are silly since a neutral party knows my intentions and its your monarch that took a day to get back to me and it was within that day we found out who it was.

2) tell everyone in my chan abs had nothing to do with it because I mistakenly thought they had some class

This is why I was so quick to accept your offer of a mutual leadership log posting, which you have since backed out of because it contains tons of talk of you justifying hitting into eow because you think it's imbalanced and you wanting to solve the situation by just farming bourreau yourself

Boom

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I find your reasoning a bit wierd again. Of course you come across as unreasonable.

Bour asked you what you wanted and protector said he wanted a farm war. When bour denied a farm war you asked for 2500 acre + an acre cap on bour provs wich was agreed to. That would be a nice gain compared to what you lost. In addition to that Emeriti asked you what you wanted for it to be even. All of that is more than fair compensation for the transgressions in question. Instead you were asking for ppl to delete or not to compete wich just comes across as one of two things:

Either: You were suggesting things that were deliberatly unreasonable to avoid making a deal before you could get the bg started
Or: You were hoping to eliminate your only real competition for a cakewalk crown

But, all in all, there is one key line in here.

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Originally Posted by flogger

"that's a holy **** abs can get ganged moment"

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This sums it up completely. You wanted to GB emeriti. No matter if the excuses held together or not. And tbh I would personaly feel very much refreshed if you just said that. "I just wanted to kill you a**holes. F*ck the reasons" After weeks of bullsh*t back and forth some honesty would be much appriciated. I'd even think that the utopian comunity would respect that approach more. I for one definetly would.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

"I just wanted to kill you a**holes. F*ck the reasons"

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*raises hand*

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljcnsze3u41qh9aev.gif

Mithras & asf you keep saying flogger lied, but the fact is you guys lied, you said you dident know the guy who razed, after that your word was nothingless, you can spin and spin all day you like, but you are dirty dogs and derserve any bit you get and we will not stop before you fall on your kness and admit you been dirty lil liers and been spinning bull**** for the last 2 weeks.

Die abs dogs.

When are people gonna get on playing the game instead of going round in circles trying to seperate black and white from grey?

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Originally Posted by Heiney

When are people gonna get on playing the game instead of going round in circles trying to seperate black and white from grey?

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To be fair we're playing the game and they're not logging in but 3 guys that don't seem to care about anyone else won't give up

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Originally Posted by Mike^

Mithras & asf you keep saying flogger lied, but the fact is you guys lied, you said you dident know the guy who razed, after that your word was nothingless, you can spin and spin all day you like, but you are dirty dogs and derserve any bit you get and we will not stop before you fall on your kness and admit you been dirty lil liers and been spinning bull**** for the last 2 weeks.

Die abs dogs.

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Please point me towards the post were I say that flogger lies or stop making sh*t up. Either will do.

Mith- I have zero problems admitting that if you hit in my end of war that I'll do whatever is in my power to make you regret it. Gave plenty of opportunities and many days to own up and resolve the situation, and yall figured your best course of action was making fake nicks on the forums. Guess you were wrong.

Absolutely no one cares about getting 1k acres or a few million gc back. We made it entirely clear we wanted to punish someone, we asked for bourreau and you said no. You decided to vouch for him, deal with it.

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Originally Posted by flogger

Mith- I have zero problems admitting that if you hit in my end of war that I'll do whatever is in my power to make you regret it. Gave plenty of opportunities and many days to own up and resolve the situation, and yall figured your best course of action was making fake nicks on the forums. Guess you were wrong.

Absolutely no one cares about getting 1k acres or a few million gc back. We made it entirely clear we wanted to punish someone, we asked for bourreau and you said no. You decided to vouch for him, deal with it.

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Not really. You never gave us a chance to resolve the situation since you never stated what you wanted for the situation to be resolved (other than the obviously unreasonable delete/stop playing we already discussed). When we asked you what you wanted you stalled. The obvious conclusion is that you didn't want it resolved.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

Not really. You never gave us a chance to resolve the situation since you never stated what you wanted for the situation to be resolved (other than the obviously unreasonable delete/stop playing we already discussed). When we asked you what you wanted you stalled. The obvious conclusion is that you didn't want it resolved.

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Maybe they should of asked for you to tag I surrender. Personally apologise to Flogger for your ****play and the gangbanging of any kingdoms who refused.....Ohhh wait I forgot that's your side who has previous that sort of ****.

Not nice when the shoes on the other foot is it.

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Originally Posted by Palem

I'm referring to this
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...-provided-gold

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No offense, but with the knowledge of knowing who started that topic, you'd have to be pretty stupid to believe him anyway.
Everyone knows the guy is an idiot.

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Originally Posted by Cheetzy

Maybe they should of asked for you to tag I surrender. Personally apologise to Flogger for your ****play and the gangbanging of any kingdoms who refused.....Ohhh wait I forgot that's your side who has previous that sort of ****.

Not nice when the shoes on the other foot is it.

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No idea what you are refering too. Emeriti has appologized repeatedly and have no reason to tag "we surrender" since we havn't surrendered. We also have not gb:ed anyone; that was flogger/bb/pyro.

We have however, also repeatedly, asked for terms to end this and we have not really got any clear replies other than the deleete/disband/stop playing as already have been mentioned.

https://i.imgflip.com/nbji0.jpg

Mithras nice to see your starting on your shift in the forums so others in your kd can rest some from their fruitless talk.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

Interesting Flogger. I learned all that sh*t from Anri after he used wordplay to allow him to notice from war while still preventing us from noticing him. He did all that by agreeing on one thing on irc and sending something else in the ingame messege we confirmed. But ofc, I havn't been doing this for long.

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Just last age there was a days long discussion ongoing on how the age would end. It was pretty clear Simians felt they deserved (and I pretty much felt the same for em) something for their good sportmanship and performance last age. So instead of us, Beastblood, putting all our resources into taking the province #1 position (we had pool, neither of you did), we agreed to let Simians have it. It was supposed to be part of the deal were Simians gave up some x-thousand acres to Emeriti to secure their win for kingdom land/nw.
The mail Anri received ingame turned out to be different (which he replied to confirm but didnt read), giving you a loophole to go for it. I'm aware dorje didn't want to agree, but it had been on the table the whole time. It was either ours or Simians to take. We agreed to pass it to them.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

My impression is pretty clear though. Everyone tries to get the edge somehow, by all means necesary. The only limit is individual players character and moral. You making stuff up to gb when you can't win fair was clearly within your characters and morals. Some set up deals that favor them. Some dealbreak. In the end it all comes down to what kind of game we want and how we want to win.

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Your impression seems pretty heavily clouded.
And human cleric vs dwarf sage with the current mechanics who'd fight mid YR1? You seriously think we "can't" win? Anyone with a simple grasping of game mechanics would favor the humans.

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Originally Posted by protector

Just last age there was a days long discussion ongoing on how the age would end. It was pretty clear Simians felt they deserved (and I pretty much felt the same for em) something for their good sportmanship and performance last age. So instead of us, Beastblood, putting all our resources into taking the province #1 position (we had pool, neither of you did), we agreed to let Simians have it. It was supposed to be part of the deal were Simians gave up some x-thousand acres to Emeriti to secure their win for kingdom land/nw.
The mail Anri received ingame turned out to be different (which he replied to confirm but didnt read), giving you a loophole to go for it. I'm aware dorje didn't want to agree, but it had been on the table the whole time. It was either ours or Simians to take. We agreed to pass it to them.

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Go check the logs, they are crystal clear. The messege sent ingame is identical to what was agreed on irc. Emeriti never agreed to, in any way, to give Simians prov crown. To dictate a deal to someone and not even looking if they agreed or not and then both assume that the deal is in effect and go on to claim they changed it must be some sort of definition of arrogance

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Originally Posted by protector

Your impression seems pretty heavily clouded.
And human cleric vs dwarf sage with the current mechanics who'd fight mid YR1? You seriously think we "can't" win? Anyone with a simple grasping of game mechanics would favor the humans.

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I said everyone will try to get an edge any way they could and the only limit to that is a persons character and moral. Whether human beats dwarf is completely irrelevant since you chose to dealbreak instead of just beating us fair. If you at that point thought you would beat us fairly and easely as you try to claim now I'm quite amazed you didn't do just that. Would have spared alot of ppl alot of effort. But that was what your morale and your character would allow you to do to get an edge. I would not have done the same.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

I said everyone will try to get an edge any way they could and the only limit to that is a persons character and moral. Whether human beats dwarf is completely irrelevant since you chose to dealbreak instead of just beating us fair. If you at that point thought you would beat us fairly and easely as you try to claim now I'm quite amazed you didn't do just that. Would have spared alot of ppl alot of effort. But that was what your morale and your character would allow you to do to get an edge. I would not have done the same.

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Shouldn't have send buro on us.

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Originally Posted by Mithras

Go check the logs, they are crystal clear. The messege sent ingame is identical to what was agreed on irc. Emeriti never agreed to, in any way, to give Simians prov crown. To dictate a deal to someone and not even looking if they agreed or not and then both assume that the deal is in effect and go on to claim they changed it must be some sort of definition of arrogance

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I don't need to read logs, I was present when it was discussed.
We would not race province crown if Simians was getting it. I said this numerous times. It was common knowledge that, seeing as we would explore only a day or 2 later, neither Simians nor Emeriti would be able to pass us. Simians lacked pool and Emeriti was too small. dorje left that part out of the deal he sent ingame and Anri didn't "read" the content and replied to confirm.

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Originally Posted by SnirpsneR

Shouldn't have send buro on us.

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Bour is not a dog that sits and high fives on command. Neither is he trained in attacking other ppls opponents on command. He does however tend to attack his own opponents in a game enviroment. When he does so he does not violate agreed CF:s and he actively tries to keeps his fights 1 vs 1.

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Originally Posted by protector

I don't need to read logs, I was present when it was discussed.
We would not race province crown if Simians was getting it. I said this numerous times. It was common knowledge that, seeing as we would explore only a day or 2 later, neither Simians nor Emeriti would be able to pass us. Simians lacked pool and Emeriti was too small. dorje left that part out of the deal he sent ingame and Anri didn't "read" the content and replied to confirm.

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You do need to read the logs since you are accusing emerit of changing agreed deals and you think that we agreed to give Simians a prov crown. A simple read through the logs will prove that neither actualy happened and we can put a silly discussion to bed.

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Originally Posted by protector

I don't need to read logs, I was present when it was discussed.
We would not race province crown if Simians was getting it. I said this numerous times. It was common knowledge that, seeing as we would explore only a day or 2 later, neither Simians nor Emeriti would be able to pass us. Simians lacked pool and Emeriti was too small. dorje left that part out of the deal he sent ingame and Anri didn't "read" the content and replied to confirm.

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So if we agree to what you say, isent it Anri's fault that he did not read it?