Debauchery...

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Originally Posted by THX1912

Oh, but I do all the time! I often stumble on someone who did train some thieves before stacking the cash.
Look, if you don't have more than 5mil, I wont even bother trying. At 5mil, I make about 50-60k per op, and if I fail, I loose over 200 thieves. Like I said previously, with all the effectiveness penalties, my 25mod TPA drops to about 2. Just train enough for me to fail 1 op out of 3 and I'll move on because you're not profitable enough. I do believe that by the time you can stack 5mil, you've had time to train 1.5-2TPA raw. If not, your econ is so strong you'll make up for what I took in a few hours, so don't cry me a river.

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Think what he meant by wrong target is someone who would not take it and will find the time to hit you when your down =] not about 'higher TPA'-kind of wrong target..

I think the main point that pisses people off more isnt the amount that you stole, ofc it will piss them off alittle more if you steal 5m compared to 500k or 50k..however, the 'disrespect' of other's eowcf is what makes most people is more pissed about compared to amount, in my opinion..

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Originally Posted by freedelivery

+ 1
come at me..

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I think people would appreciate to know the name of the prov who decides to declare such big challenge :P rather than the usual "its up to you to find out who am i" after saying such a thing openly lol..

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Originally Posted by Diamas

Stop pretending like you only steal from those with no thieves. You steal from anyone as long as your gains are good enough. Also, you don't care how long ago the war has ended as well.

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I totally agree with you. You are just repeating what I said, but let's go into more detail, as you obviously have missed something.

If the war has ended, the war has ended. Nuf said. I'm not interfering with the win or anything. To me, it's like you're in fortified stance, except you have better protection.

That aside, you are right, I steal from anyone as long as my gains are good enough. But I've said it above, on someone with 5 mil, I barely get 50k to 60k per op, depending on the nw range. if I fail an op, I lose 200+ thieves, that's 70k gc gone. So yeah, if I fail a couple, like I said, I'll move on. You don't need a ton of thieves to make me fail enough to kill my gains.

Let's do some math here: When opping outside my eowcf, I get -75% gains and -75% effectiveness. So I have 25% of my mod TPA left. Obviously, I hit into another one's eowcf, so that's 75% of the 25% left gone again. That's 6.25% of my mod TPA and gains left. like I said, 25*0.0625=1.5625. That's my mod TPA (and to be honnest, 25mod is pretty much the best I can manage, it's usually somewhere between 20-25). 1.5625mod TPA is not that hard to block. You don't need to train 5TPA raw. Anywhere between 1 and 2 raw will slow me down enough.

And considering I only get 6.25% of the gains I'd normally get, yes, I do need to send all my thieves and risk loosing a huge amount when I fail. And you need to sit on more than just 1 or 2 mil to make it worth it.

EDIT: @Andrew: I know what he meant. I'm not that dense.
As for the "disrespect"; I don't interfere in active wars (no one has enough money at that moment of war anyway, but even if they did, I wouldn't interfere). I totally respect two KD going at each other. Like I've said, though, I don't consider the eowcf as being a holly untouchable moment. It's basically a glorified fortified stance, nothing else. It's meant to give you added padding while you are weak, but you need to do some effort to defend yourself still. I've said it over and over, but the time you CAN have enough money to be of interest, you have PLENTY OF TIME to protect yourself enough from me to be of no interest at all.

EDIT 2: and the 70k I lose on thieves to retrain doesn't even take into account the cost of drafting the solds...

You're entitled to your own opinion. That doesn't make your actions commendable, nor the piss poor approach/attitude when confronted in-game while it's ongoing. Action -> Reaction. Don't mind what you do, then don't mind when you're done.

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Originally Posted by flutterby

Yes, Mr. Taylor Swift.

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Thank you, but there is no Mr. Taylor Swift.
...there's a Mr. Scott Swift, or a Mr. Austin Swift, or some other obscure male family members who share the last name, but it's unlikely any are named Taylor.


Let's keep our facts straight :p

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Originally Posted by Ezzerland

You're entitled to your own opinion. That doesn't make your actions commendable, nor the piss poor approach/attitude when confronted in-game while it's ongoing. Action -> Reaction. Don't mind what you do, then don't mind when you're done.

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So far, everytime I've been approached in game by one whom I stole from, I stopped and moved on to someone else. I don't recall being rude to anyone, so I have no clue what you mean about the "piss poor approach/attitude". There was maybe once or twice, when the offended party was rude in their request to move on and they got to me, but that's pretty much it...

And being entitled my opinion.... I hope I am! I'm just trying to make other people's opinions evolve! Debauchery is apparently going to get it, while they're not the only ones to steal in eowcf, and people are making a lot of fuss about something that, in my opinion, could be avoided by spending much less effort. Consider this: what is easier, coodinate a bunch of KD to massively razekill a KD to punish them, or just train a few thieves as soon as you can when your war ends?

Why would anyone need to co-ordinate multiple kingdoms to raze them?

pay no attention to ezz/flutterfly

they still butthurt because a few players left their kingdom after loosing like 2 ages in a row and joined a far more fun kingdom so they will flame silly rabbits kingdom whenever they get a chance... you all couldnt win wars when you were monarchs so people moved on...get over it

and as far as eowcf stealing noobs bring it on themselves as far as im concerned...who sits on 5+ mil gc and **** tpa ....the war is over so its not interfering with a darn thing...hey noob train 2 tpa and it wont happen...you wont even pay wages for your thieves incase you havent figured tht out yet

I'd rather fight a war and lose than fake war for a crown :)

Dont think peeps will bother to coordinate for a razehit..maybe within their own KD, they may set the time to do raze wave and etc..but coordinate with a bunch of KD just to do raze another KD..dont seem worth the effort :] its more of a "all you can hit, when you want to hit" buffet..

if strictly between coordinating BUNCH of KD for wave hits or train thief, ofc the latter requires more effort..but obviously the first is too overkill and ridiculious to even think about..peeps will just go along with their own timetable and mood..but if its choosing from "which is more 'interesting'?" point of view..then its a different story :p

Well if you view it from prevention point of view and ask peeps to train thieves to prevent this from happening next time..they can say the same, they may want to raze kill your provs to maybe teach a lesson and make you think twice before doing same thing again nxt age?

Well yea as said many times before, eowcf period isnt made to be an untouchable period, its up to personal preference to do it..but most KDs respects the eowcf and take it as part of an active war period and doesnt hit/op in without special reasons..just prepare to bear consequences if people does decide to retaliate, thats it..why are peeps getting so upset over some KD going to get their revenge in raze killing some provs, since they know of this possibility when they op into other KD's eowcf? :)

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Originally Posted by Ezzerland

Why would anyone need to co-ordinate multiple kingdoms to raze them?

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So far, the only ones that have tried on Debauchery was ED, and they lost. So I guess yes. But even without the need to coordinate, seems easier to me to just train thieves. Wouldn't you think? They don't even have wages, so it's not like it was going to increase your expanses...

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Originally Posted by Andr3w

Well yea as said many times before, eowcf period isnt made to be an untouchable period, its up to personal preference to do it..but most KDs respects the eowcf and take it as part of an active war period and doesnt hit/op in without special reasons..just prepare to bear consequences if people does decide to retaliate, thats it..why are peeps getting so upset over some KD going to get their revenge in raze killing some provs, since they know of this possibility when they op into other KD's eowcf? :)

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You admit it's not an untouchable period, but go on to say most people respect it... If you admit it's not made to be an untouchable period, then what is there to respect?

As far as retaliation, like I said, so far Debauchery seems to be the most hated KD on the server because of eowcf stealing, and only ED tried to get back at them. (Just looked at Deb's survey, only action so far this month is a single aid packet). I don't think I should be worried. Looks like most KDs agree with me: it's not worth the effort.

A few pages back:

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Originally Posted by Ezzerland

Boosting TPA is a fine suggestion to PREVENT it from happening to you, on an individual basis. However, this is a community action to PREVENT a kingdom from continuously doing it and thinking it's fine and not actionable. Raze killing provinces is simply a memorable punishment.

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Originally Posted by THX1912

You admit it's not an untouchable period, but go on to say most people respect it... If you admit it's not made to be an untouchable period, then what is there to respect?

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Your general argument seems to be "the war is over, the game lets me do it, what's the problem?"
Well, Debauch is not in war, game lets people raze, what's the problem? What is there to respect?

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Originally Posted by THX1912

When opping outside my eowcf........Obviously, I hit into another one's eowcf

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Is your or your kd mates ability to run a decent economy, during what is arguably the easiest stance to do so in, THAT piss poor that you NEED to op into another KD's eowcf to fund either yours or a mates financial necessity?

Wait. Your wisdom suggests people should train thieves during the early stages of an eowcf to deter the less than knowledgeable. If you have any other leet strategies please, by all means, post them in the Utopia Strategy forum. They may be grand enough to get stickied.

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Originally Posted by THX1912

Let's do some math here: When opping outside my eowcf, I get -75% gains and -75% effectiveness. So I have 25% of my mod TPA left. Obviously, I hit into another one's eowcf, so that's 75% of the 25% left gone again. That's 6.25% of my mod TPA and gains left. like I said, 25*0.0625=1.5625. That's my mod TPA (and to be honnest, 25mod is pretty much the best I can manage, it's usually somewhere between 20-25). 1.5625mod TPA is not that hard to block. You don't need to train 5TPA raw. Anywhere between 1 and 2 raw will slow me down enough.

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There is no penalty to TPA, only to gains. And IIRC the gains penalty does not stack when you op from a war into another war (it is just -75% in total rather than -93.75%).

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Originally Posted by Roozed

Is your or your kd mates ability to run a decent economy, during what is arguably the easiest stance to do so in, THAT piss poor that you NEED to op into another KD's eowcf to fund either yours or a mates financial necessity?

Wait. Your wisdom suggests people should train thieves during the early stages of an eowcf to deter the less than knowledgeable. If you have any other leet strategies please, by all means, post them in the Utopia Strategy forum. They may be grand enough to get stickied.

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Oh, don't worry, my economy is just fine. So is that of my KD mates. We just don't like to wait until war is over to explore chained attackers back to size. And with the explore cost hike, we need a little outside help. Also, funding dragons is so much faster this way.

;-)

Edit: @Petrified:

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Originally Posted by the guide

Immediate Effects

Annul Hostile Meter with everyone

Benefits

-10% Attack Time
Enhanced Massacre Destroys Buildings
+10% Combat Gains
Mana costs for offensive spells reduced to 2%
Stealth costs for offensive ops reduced to 2%

Penalties

+500% Exploration Costs
No Paradise spell available
Science limited to "Active"


After 12 Hours (12 Utopian Days)

Benefits

-20% Attack Time


After 24 Hours (1 Utopian Month)

Benefits

-25% Military Losses
-25% Military Training Time
No Distance Penalties for Attacks
-75% Gains and Effectiveness for operations to and from other Kingdoms (this fades in from war start)

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As for the penalty stacking, from my experience, it certainly seems like it does stack.

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Originally Posted by THX1912

explore attackers.

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More super tips.