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no, they were never truly communist, they had communist ambitions and took somewhat different paths (market economy for instance) to achieve their end goal of a truly communist state but neither got there..
in marxs utopia there wouldnt be any money to pay taxes with and there would be no states to collect taxes.. secondly there would be no classes and total equality and thus 0 need for redistribution..
Than they are socialists.
communists are socialist too..
marx said socialism is the path to communism.
as i said communism is socialist, and marx was a socialist. no surprise there really. whats your point? america is hardly socialist, nor is obamas politics.. more socialist than mccains? probably, but hardly enough to classify it as socialist..
Why does Obama's, Mccain's, USA's policies matchup with the Communist Manifesto's ten planks than?
well, they dont.. i dont know if you know nothing about marxism or american politics or perhaps both, but as i said, theres hardly anything socialist about america today with or without mccain/obama.
whats relevant is the purpose and end goal, not the action itself. as i said, even capitalism can be used as a stepping stone towards a communist society, so does that mean capitalism is communist too? If all actions potentially can be a stepping stone towards communism, does that mean that every leader and every country in the world is communist?
1. "Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes."
Federal government owns at least 40% of United states land.
Property tax,
2. "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax."
amendment XVI, IRS, progressive tax.
3. "Abolition of all rights of inheritance."
Inheritance tax
4. "Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels."
Heros Act
5. "Centralization of credit in the banks of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly."
Federal Reserve, no true audit.
6. "Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the state."
Federal communications commission, and its federal guidelines
7. "Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the state; the bringing into cultivation of waste lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan."
Federal government has more than 25,000 corporate units that directly compete with non government businesses.
8. "equal liability of all to labor. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture."
9. "Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country."
10. "Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc."
State run schools, religion prayer etc. not allowed in schools.
All quotes are the Communist Manifesto's ten planks of communism
Karl Marx was just trying to sell the idea of socialism to people by making it sound good.Quote:
Originally Posted by RAKIdaRHINO
what is really the intention is to stay in that so called transitionary phase.
I will probably elaborate on the ten planks later.
But this explanation is hints for now.
dka
1. So? is the state increasing its ownership, and if so why? Thats the relevant question here, not whether or not state owns property in first place.
2. taxes arent needed since there is no money. secondly taxes themselves are hardly as relevant as what taxes are used for. monarchs of the past along with the nobles collected heavy taxes, were they socialist/communist? Hardly. tax != socialism/communism. Get your facts straight.
3. rights of inheritance != inheritance tax. As i said in the other thread there couldnt be no inheritance tax since you couldnt inherit in first place. You own nothing as such you cant inherit anything either. Thirdly the underlyings reasons are miles a part. Where as the marxist acknowledges that inheritance maintains the class society one by having inheritance taxes doesnt necessarily want to remove these classes.. furthermore there are plenty of countries far more socialist than what you claim US to be that has removed inheritance tax.. does that make them less socialist than US? Weird reasoning.
4. Duh, no one is supposed to have property in first place. Thats the whole idea.
5. Fed and the american banking system is hardly socialist.
6. How much of your lovely communication is currently state owned? What is the trend?
Is America privatizing more or nationalizing more? :)
7. Wow. Not worth commenting..
8. didnt have anything to say?
9. read above.
10. Yeah, cause only the socialist think education is a good idea. Okelidokeli!
It also help to read between the lines when reading Karl Marx, Lenin, etc.
Karl Marx tries to make Communism sound good when it is not.
dka
It is good. Compared to capitalism at least.. then again, since capitalism have/and can been used as a stepping stone towards communism, capitalism IS communism so.. nevermind.Quote:
Karl Marx was just trying to sell the idea of socialism to people by making it sound good.
What makes you think that? Kinda beats the whole purpose.Quote:
what is really the intention is to stay in that so called transitionary phase.
dka
why is it bad? why is capitalism good?
What is good? What is bad?
Whats bad about the idea of everyone having everything they need compared to the elite having everything while the workers pay for it?
Oy... Here's an interesting read.Quote:
2. "A heavy progressive or graduated income tax."
amendment XVI, IRS, progressive tax.
http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/article/...175910,00.html
Reminder: Obama's tax plan involves returning to Clinton-era levels, or 39.6% for the top tier. Look at the historical data and I think it will be fairly obvious why all those arguing that Obama will bring about communism in the US are just right-wing tools peddling their desperate talking points...
As for the other ones.. The inheritance tax has been covered. The fact that there is an inheritance to tax kills that one... And this next one covers a few; having a federal regulatory body does not qualify as 'centralization.' What is meant is that ONLY the state outlets exist. Ie- state media, state banks, etc being the only available option.
And my favorite...
Is child labor desirable? I didn't realize the abolition of child labor was something we, as a capitalist society, should be against... Also, the arguments regarding religion and prayer in public schools go back to something that predates Marx...Quote:
10. "Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labor in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production, etc."
State run schools, religion prayer etc. not allowed in schools.