curiosity about next age

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bishop

Fail. Sage is stronger.

---

It is nerfed. :)

The first 700-800bpa is always crucial to getting to 1.5-2k+ bpa. Without the cost lowered you will need increased idle/pumping time at max, probably rushed. Extreme will be really impossible now with the changes to sage, rushed would be tough and would bring about the same risks as running extreme this age with less rewards. Managing your econ is gonna be tougher this age with sage and merc nerfed. The funny thing is Warrior and Tactician are nerfed as well, would have liked it if Gens have -50% ambush.

3week+ pump of sci to get to where my kd is at currently was almost 1/3 of the age and opened us to a lot of risks before we reaped the rewards, 5% extra would have reduced the amount of sci required but i'd rather have it at 20% and -20% cost. Also losing 10-15% of your total bpa for a sage(180bpa) is another setback.

And if you consider active bonuses to ones you garner later eg:honor/science. If you fight kd's of equal stature with late game bonuses vs immediate ones like tactician,merchant,warrior. I highly doubt you will win wars, which would mean you would have to find weaker kd's to fight against. WW's aren't guaranteed, even if you have 5 ww's which not many do, that's only 500bpa which is not much for a sage eoa. Any decent sage should be able to pull of 2k bpa or close to it. The tasks at hand is for very skilled kd's to be able to consistently pull of fast war wins, to reap the benefits and if there were any it would be a handful.

Summary: Sage is nerfed. :)

Honor ftw!

Last I saw, Sage only went from +20% to +25%, while losing free books, reduced costs, and faster research - in addition to protection dropping from -75% to -66%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tak3shi

It is nerfed. :)

The first 700-800bpa is always crucial to getting to 1.5-2k+ bpa. Without the cost lowered you will need increased idle/pumping time at max, probably rushed. Extreme will be really impossible now with the changes to sage, rushed would be tough and would bring about the same risks as running extreme this age with less rewards. Managing your econ is gonna be tougher this age with sage and merc nerfed. The funny thing is Warrior and Tactician are nerfed as well, would have liked it if Gens have -50% ambush.

3week+ pump of sci to get to where my kd is at currently was almost 1/3 of the age and opened us to a lot of risks before we reaped the rewards, 5% extra would have reduced the amount of sci required but i'd rather have it at 20% and -20% cost. Also losing 10-15% of your total bpa for a sage(180bpa) is another setback.

And if you consider active bonuses to ones you garner later eg:honor/science. If you fight kd's of equal stature with late game bonuses vs immediate ones like tactician,merchant,warrior. I highly doubt you will win wars, which would mean you would have to find weaker kd's to fight against. WW's aren't guaranteed, even if you have 5 ww's which not many do, that's only 500bpa which is not much for a sage eoa. Any decent sage should be able to pull of 2k bpa or close to it. The tasks at hand is for very skilled kd's to be able to consistently pull of fast war wins, to reap the benefits and if there were any it would be a handful.

Summary: Sage is nerfed. :)

---

Nicely written out but not really correct. You don't really pick sage for free books, cheaper books or learn protection - they are just added bonuses. You pick sage because of the sci effectiveness. This effectiveness was increased. If non sages this age can run extreme you can be damn sure a sage won't have issues with it next age, assuming you allocate your sci correctly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kemia

going orc/sage thinking about it heavily


is there a certain cap on gains sci?

---

There's a practical cap because you need 4x as much bpa to get 2x the effect. This limits the effectiveness of extra sci when you already have high bpa.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bishop

Nicely written out but not really correct. You don't really pick sage for free books, cheaper books or learn protection - they are just added bonuses. You pick sage because of the sci effectiveness. This effectiveness was increased. If non sages this age can run extreme you can be damn sure a sage won't have issues with it next age, assuming you allocate your sci correctly.

---

I'd like to see how non-sages can run extreme. :)

I can show you how sages can run extreme 120+dpa on certain races without honor. And any pump done less than 3-4 days isnt worth the total rebuild cost you need to rebuild all your buildings. Essentially all sci pumps should be at least 5-7 days long and to do so u would need (cept dwarf)

a) decent def to keep people from vulturing
b) A high enough income to support 150gc(102.75(30% schools)) cost per acre on at least 50% draft preferably much higher. When you link that up together let's calculate per peasant income.

2.75*25 = 68.75 assuming all peasants are employed and non drafted. You can add the income bonuses like banks and so forth but i guarantee you wont touch 40% draft and be able to pump sci when even 25 peasants gives u a raw income of 68.75(a 50%mod gives u 103.125 income per acre). If i'm assuming 50% that's 0% draft excluding all expense but when you're 0% draft u have 0 expense lol, u're just a land farm. :)


The only reason I was able to pump extreme on sage was after I placed enough sci points in 2-3 out of the major sci categories which allowed more peasants and more income per land/draft. That is the discounted version of extreme on sage and not the raw 102.75(with 30% schools)

If i remember right, and i do, my sage was running extreme with 0 schools, 60% draft and maybe 30 banks. A non sage can run extreme after they gather a small amount of sci. But we discussed this on irc, so i assume you agree since every one else did :p

i'm sage and i've spent 80% of the age in war on active.

i know sage has been made 'stronger' in the +25% effectiveness and plague immunity but everything else is weak/removed.

and i chose sage almost entirely for the learn protection - nothing is more heartbreaking than seeing your hard-earned science get stolen!!



if sage was the same as age 53 i'd consider orc/sage too... as it is i'm planning cleric or tact.

i was thinking dwarf aswell to cast on ppl with low wpa but then i realised most that have low wpa will be Orc attackers that have reflect magic and i dont wanna cast fb`s on myself so im going Orc :P

but choosing Tactician wich seems pretty solid .

sage is probably nice but you will have many books and with the nerf to sci protection you will be worth throwing learn attacks on especially when you have been chained down sitting on suicide defense 24/7. i suspect hybrids will take advantage to get that sci off ya.

You might need to find money rather than earn it in order to run extreme sci as non-sage, but I've been doing it quite often this age.