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The power of definition will always twist most things in utopia. Still the point stands coss for both of what has been said and what you feel. In the future I will make sure it is so crystal clearly cut that it will make people smile at how pretty it is.
so u can raze into our FW and expect us to think "ok no hostile". you could of spoken to us to close the hostile? you knew we went to FW to prep for you and you knew we would come OOFW to continue our hostile.
use w/e BS excuses you want. facts r facts. we didnt hit you 1st - you initiated it and you expect us to just walk away and think "hmmm hostile must be over".
if some1 razed into your FW what would you being thinking?
as ive said many times - i have no issue with sleepy (only regret is we couldnt have a proper war with sleepy) but SG are lame dipsh1ts and im sorry to see Sleepy allied with them.
@ coss - theres no excuse to hit into anothers war - period
If its a fake war it certainly dont matter really :PQuote:
@ coss - theres no excuse to hit into anothers war - period
I didnt read the entire article so i may not be the first to post this, but wtf do expect when you are dealing with those kds
same activity been going on for years
I am soo confused :s
So two of the top KD's are disbanding.
Morale to the story: Never trust your competitors
Another nice article thank you!
Thought u never gonna report it. Lol. Thanks for the article
<3 maddy
nono screw that if its a FW then do w/e. I ment hitting into a real war like SG did instead of waiting till the war was over.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
i dont care about sleepy hitting into our FW.
i wouldnt of cared if SG vultured ZZ once we came OOW from Sleepy war cause we could of fought back.
i care about some dip**** kingdom thinking they have the right to hit into an active war and then hide behind BS excuses. they could of waited but nooo they dont have the balls to take us on 1 v 1 (SG not sleepy).
and lol @ coss - im not gunning for you next age or w/e age I have no problems with u or sleepy - you guys did nothing wrong in my eyes apart from wanting to war ZZ :) and if we do end up fighting i know it will be my side will want a fair fight and not call in dip**** allies.
I have added more information to the article which oppose the claims from ZZ that Singapore gave notice because Sleepy had asked them to.
Nice article, very interesting.
Hopefully all of you top KDs continue to disband, and next age will be "The Ghettos Strike Back" hehe
As far as I am aware SG were asked to give notice. The 2v1 situ could have completely been avoided. I have much love for all kds in this conflict, sad to see that ZZ are disbanding (we haven't always seen eye to eye but fought it out 1v1 each time).
SG have upset a few kds this age (dodgy GB and hitting into war), but you can't please everyone all the time, and quite frankly it makes the game a bit more interesting. This is a war game after all, and let's all remember DTA (dont trust anyone) :p
As for the 48h notice thing I completely agree with MA it means very little nowadays with people breaking it or giving notice in hostile. The gentlemans agreement (even
written agreement) means is pretty much dead.
these 2 lamest kd working together again?
that's an old old story lol.. poor ZZ..
All top kds have NaPs with eachother. If the "gentlemans agreement" is dead, that means we will see all kds in top 10-15 duke it out instead of hiding behind NaPs? /me claps his little hands
I'm wondering why those one guys gave up attacking when the other KD entered? Wouldn't you at least fight to cover some of the losses by max gaining the warring KD?
People in T15 have naps granted. But these naps are there for a reason (friendship w/e). I'd put any money on any T15 kd having the activity/skill to outwar anybody else on the server. Top wars are destructive and involve a lot of effort, with kds trying to match activity/ability against their counterparts. Anybody who thinks all top kds are there to whore can misjudge them at their peril.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrC-TheAncients
FYI top kds do "duke it out" regularly, its not about the quantity of wars but the quality IMO :)
i didnt take time to read all this, its nothing i havent read before from any age that i was around zz which is years ago, zz is and always will be interesting if nothing else :)
i think most of us really old timers might have a kingdom in their past that they are attached to by the heart, mine is and was zz, i have always been their biggest cheerleader even when it wasnt popular to cheer them on.
i have no idea if you guys are really disbanding for good, i know there is only a small shell of players that have been in the kingdom for a long long time, and if they stop playing then zz will i think die for sure.
anyway love you guys alot, always have, always will, past and present players, once zz always zz at heart :)
good luck guys
One thing I would query:
Fuzzy, you say you chose not to double-hostile Sleepy by hitting into Sanctuary's hostile with them, yet you claim a state of hostile still existed between you. Which is it mate, one or the other? The two statements are mutually exclusive.
Even disregarding Coss' expressed opinion regarding a hostile requiring in-game relations, either a hostile still existed between yourselves and Sleepy throughout the fwar, in which case you should have been hitting Sleepy the moment you left the fwar regardless of their status with other kingdoms (other than a real war, ofc), or it didn't, in which case SG was legit in giving you notice. You cannot sit there OOW doing nothing and waiting for a kd to finish a hostile and then claim "sorry, we're already in a hostile" when someone serves you notice.
I don't know why you b!tch about getting hit in war when you broke the 48 hour notice and hit in 5 hours instead of 48. My thinking is if you had the balls to war them 1 on 1 then u would have warred sleepy and gotten out of the war warred them after sleepy. All the talk about vulture and fw is **** when yourself broke the 48h notice.
nice article.
Another nice article, thanks!
I claimed nothing, I listed facts. Sleepy razed into our FW (FW we were using to prep for Sleepy) and no diplo talks took place to end the hostile. Not ZZ's fault Sleepy then ran into another hostile with Sanc (Sleepy thus getting themselves into a double hostile). Instead of being dicks and hitting into Sleepies 2nd hostile we decided to wait so its 1 v 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaman5
Next time when you're trying to look clever please try and do it right!
LOL arn't you another xlogging HoHer? Pot calling the kettle black.Quote:
Originally Posted by tak3shi
I notice people don't know what a hostile means apparently.
I will repeat myself: IF kd A hits kd B and gives hostile today and kd B doesn't hit back/declare then kd B is NOT in hostile with kd A till end of age or for another few ages because they did nothing when they got hit. They are hostile by the time the kd relations decrease to unfriendly ( in our case hostile went to no relations, not even unfriendly ). So saying Sleepy got into a double hostile when we waved Sanctuary is stupid and shows why ZZ is so nub. We ran to no double hostile, we just waved a different kd when we had NO RELATIONS with you and when you exit fake war there were NO RELATIONS between the 2 kds. I don't know where people get the idea that if kd A does few hits on kd B then they are hostile till end of age or till diplomacy is done. Why would I come to talk with you? I had no reason to do it. We noticed and you ran to FW. If you were unprepared or not AIN'T MY BUSINESS. You stayed fat and with hell of gc on and yet you needed a week of fake war? wtf dude ... are you serious? when you exit fake war you had avergae 40 mil gc stocked / province( that we stole and coasted fools gold on ). You ran hopping for "diplomacy" to get a CF that I didn't want to give.
On a side note ... you claim you broke CF after 5 hours instead of 48 and hit Singapore cause you were in hostile? In hostile with whom? Did you have hostile relations with anyone in your kd page? I guarantee you didn't so stop talking **** and admit you got your a$$ shaved because you were dumb ( or CGG was ).
Do you know why you got gang banged? because CGG's statement : "I don't care" when he was told he was wrong in what he did. If ZZ doesn't care when they do sh!ty stuff why would we care when we do it back to you?
Next time play fair and you'll be treated same way;)
<3 ................ =)Quote:
Originally Posted by shida
coss stop being stupid - i never said relations i said hostile. you razed into our FW (FW we were using to prep for war with Sleepy so you cannot say "o i didnt know ZZ was prepping for us and would come OOFW and continue the fight - if so then u my friend are very blind). you knew we were prepping for a war with sleepy and you new at some point we'd come out.
in ZZ eyes we still had an open hostile with Sleepy and so SG giving notice was against our cf terms and so we were able to cancel the cf asap while in Sleepies eyes the hostile died away and so SG could give notice - so we will never settle this.
you sent your dip**** ally at us as webmaster pointed out (i provided the irc log of it in an early post) knowing it was the only way to defeat us properly because you knew 1 v 1 (you would of won most likely anyway) ZZ would of hurt some of your provs so instead of SG w8ing for the war to end they hit into the war and not even maxing for most of it - nono they had to massacre and raze thus insuring you get to farm.
but hey im glad you think kingdom relations = open hostile. it doesnt matter what you say to try and sugar coat it - SG hit into an active war = lame. hostile ends when both sides do diplo things and officially end it instead of sucking **** out of our thumbs and trying to guess things.
we never ran in hope for a cf either idiot - we ran to prep because we all (in ZZ) new how hard warring you would be - you really think we would just hop into a war with Sleepy and not be ready?
its simple fact SG could of w8ed for our war to end but nooooooo they didnt have the balls for it.
we never got our ass shaved as u put it - if you call doubling up 2 v 1 an ass shaving then lol good for u - when you can win without asking your dip**** ally to hit into war then i'll respect Sleepy again.
/me waits to see what other words Coss tries to use to sugar coat it.
and I state again - Neither sleepy SG have the right to dictate to ZZ what an open hostile is. and yes thats right, i said HOSTILE not kingdom page relations. learn to read!
anyway im done with this - in the end you and your ally took the dirty path - anything to win hey or try to cause in the end even coming 2nd is worthless
one side note: if ZZ did act dirty and so on then fine but have the balls to come for us when we aren't locked in a very challenging war, one we probly would of lost anyway. Sleepy vs ZZ war ends SG target ZZ - at least we would of had a fighting chance. Hell even doubling us OOW would of been fine but i suppose bravery died out in Singapore hence why they wont be anything more than a DOT
Maybe you are confused. Or perhaps you simply have no clue why you ended up in such a sorry state. Stop harping on the fact we did hit you in war with yes, masscares/razes/TMs. That is something we have no problem doing as well as admitting now. You broke a deal and from there on, you've unfortunately gave us a pretty darn good reason to do almost anything in response that we deemed as fair (within game rules).
Now lets not kid ourselves fuzzy. When I gave notice you and your leaders accepted it and gave comments like "cya on the field" etc.. and even went so far as to confirm the exact time we could start hitting you. Had you really believed that you were still in an active hostile, you'd acted like any logical person would - Ask us to retract notice as giving it would meant a breach of CF terms. But no, instead you decided to accept the notice and then break it shortly after knowing that would be a bad time for us as most of the KD isnt around (such are the drawbacks of a country based kingdom). Bad move there so what did you expect? Us to just walk away?
Also, about "coss asking us to give notice", thats bull**** through and through. Post the logs if you like. I explained the exact logs several times to you or almost anyone who would listen. When i gave notice u accused me of coordinating with abs by saying "funny you gave notice few mins after we gave rage/fury". I then proceeded to explain to you that we have intended to give notice for a very long time now and many people including coss also have been asking me when i would be giving ZZ notice. Hence, me saying "coss asked too". Instead you took my words and twisted its meaning in a bid to justify your dealbreaking. Bad move 2nd.
We could've gave you notice into your fake war since our CF have already expired but since our terms was "no notice in war/hostile/eowcf, i decided to wait till you guys were OOFW before serving notice (even tho it was a FW). Yet you just went ahead and dealbreak us in such a contemptible manner. If CGG was more reasonable when I asked why did you guys break CF I might be more willing to let it slide alittle and not double team you with Sleepy. Sadly, the response i got was "Because i felt like it" and then followed by another hit on our bank. You asked for all these so dont blame anyone but yourselves.
"in ZZ eyes we still had an open hostile with Sleepy and so SG giving notice was against our cf terms and so we were able to cancel the cf asap while in Sleepies eyes the hostile died away and so SG could give notice - so we will never settle this." >> dude, it's not what you believe ( or better said you want others to believe ) but what the facts actually were. People that want to give you notice will NEVER ask you :" in your eyes ... do you believe you are hostile with Sleepy? I know they did 3 randoms in year 2 and now we're year 12 but still ... we care about what you believe " they will just SIMPLY give you notice and IF in your eyes it looks like it's not ok to receive it because few weeks someone else did some randoms on you, then you'll go and tell to the one giving notice: dude, we are hostile! In our eyes, the hits Sleepy did on us some weeks ago still keep some hostile relations between the 2 of us. You will be laughed at and waved after 48 hours. ;)
So to make it clear once again for you: You had NO relations with ANYONE by the time Singapore gave you notice even if "in your yes" you were hostile with all the kds you ever hit (or got hit by) this age then my friend you have SERIOUS PROBLEMS.
I already said I disagreed with CGG's decision, but in my eyes you (and all of SGKD) are the last who should be pointing fingers about breaking deals.Quote:
Originally Posted by w3bmaster
Everyone knows how you participated and abused the GB on Sonata. Everyone also knows how you got served for it.
Also, since rumor is that you're disbanding at EoA again and most people know that "You'd do whatever it takes to win"... if we are to place bets wether you will or wont break another CF this age, my money is on that you will break another CF deal, most likely with Sonata ;p
Why am I not surprised coss and webmaster are still doing this stuff lol. Every time Secrets would attempt to engage Sleepy, we'd get noticed by Snowflake. Every time Secrets would attempt to engage Snowflake, Sleepy would give notice. A pattern has formed methinks! I wonder if they still share players too.
Who are you? When we spoke you didnt represent ZZ neither did we conducted diplo talks. It doesnt really matter what you agree or disagree. Yes, we joined in a GB on sonata and we lost over 55kacres as a result of it. Not something i've taken so hard as to disband after getting owned :PQuote:
Originally Posted by prot
As you've said. You heard rumours and they are just nothing but rumours.. We do however plan to honor our EOA NAP with Dreams as they have proven to be reasonable and sensible people in this entire saga agreeing at several points you deserved what you got.
grow up idiot - ive stated I never said kingdom page relations - i stated open hostile. all the other kingdom that hit ZZ or ZZ hit ended up talking and cfing/re-cfing and you making such a statement shows how desperate you are to sweet this under the rug.Quote:
Originally Posted by coss
just accept you doubled and move on.
Im pretty certain your ability to identify patterns is terribly flawed. When secrets was around i barely knew more than 3-4 guys from Snowflake as i've been playing in Sleepy for almost 2years. It was only age 48 did I joined Snowflake and brought over all the singaporean players i knew in Sleepy. We've never shared players and only been close allies.Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
to clarify something:
If I broke rules then I have no problem getting doubled OOW (I didnt see Dreams hitting into any of SGs real wars but ok they broke their cf and waved but atleast they had the balls to do it OOW) but SG had its chance to get revenge before we got declared on by sleepy (we could of continued our hostile with SG and taken it to war if they wanted to but they asked to re-cf) - they chose to w8 till ZZ was locked in war and couldnt even try to defend ourselves.
I have 0 issue with wat Sleepy or SG said about us breaking the cf deal (even if I think its 50/50) but the showed how low they willing to go by doubling some1 in war.
Coss and Webmaster I dont want to have a war of words with either of you - my personal views are what they are just like you have your own views.
Sleepy vs ZZ could of been a good war but we'll never know now.
Who cares wether I did or did not represent ZZ when we spoke. I can share my opinion on a public forum, can't I? Afraid that I say something that may hurt your personality??Quote:
Originally Posted by w3bmaster
ZZ was close to disbanding before this already and would have most likely disbanded EoA anyway. Bragging about a double hostile isn't very impressive ;p
And theres a saying "where smoke is, is fire". I wont be surprised if theres 'fire' close to age end... but perhaps I'm wrong. Who knows.
pfft Prot Coss and Webmaster dictate whats personal opinion and what a public forum is just like they dictate what an open hostile is.Quote:
Originally Posted by prot
Granted, we did hit ZZ in a slightly less than honorable manner by pretending to accept the CF and then breaking it when we were fully converted. A similar courtesy we were afforded by Dreams earlier on. Only that back then we got waved on 30+% draft and they refused to allow us to train up and fight a fair war. I can totally understand where they were coming from and thus, adopted a identical mindset - Dont give people a reason to ass-rape you or else everything would be a fair game.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy|
Believe it or not, the initial plan was for us to wave you together with Sleepy OOW 20hrs after you started hitting in hope of you declaring us. However, when you started hitting Sleepy everything was pushed forward and we decided to go in full force. But then again, that would also involved Sleepy hitting from OOW so not much of a difference.
To prot: I didnt meant that you are not entitled to your personal opinion but if you dont get my drift then i wont bother responding to you anymore. Go ahead and say whatever you think might affect my erm.. "personality". If you have anything that is. And yes, we'll know come EOA :)
i view this matter as closed - both teams (all 3 lol) got to have their say.
http://utimes.info/article/2009/08/0...6-tango-part-iQuote:
Another twist to the tale occurred on March 8th, YR 12, with Sleepy issuing notice to Secrets, whilst in FW with Freedom, as they had been for many days. As per their initial agreement, both sides had to be within 15% NW of each other. At that time, Secrets were 120% of Sleepy’s NW, forcing them to negotiate their way out of another ‘illegal’ break, on top of which their hostile with Snowflake was still in progress. The diplomacy got even more cloudy, with Sleepy claiming that since Snowflake was in FW, the hostile was over and not legitimate, whilse Secrets refuted these claims, pointing out that both sides were still trading hits. Secrets informed Sleepy that they would only go to war if it was 1 on 1, and Snowflake backed off. Sleepy then played their hand, forcing Snowflake to end the hostile so they could fight Secrets on more even grounds. Snowflake had, up until that time, remained resolute in not wanting to war or give free hits to Secrets. After the intrusion of Sleepy, however, they offered a CF, which Secrets: promptly accepted:
March 15th, YR12 We have entered into a formal ceasefire with NoDealwithNAPbreaker (18:19).
Both Secrets and Sleepy rearranged their CF to end on May 16th, YR 12, an extra 8 hours from the initial time of notice given by Sleepy. Both kingdoms went to work on preparing for war, with Sleepy having a sizable advantage, having spent several days in FW and carrying up to 25million gc on most of their provinces. Secrets had the advantage of larger provinces, as well as a calf. They had to scramble, however, to get all the gold they could to have their armies ready for war, and their leadership notes that they sacrificed areas of their provinces to ensure that at least their military was ready. They also utilised gold and soldiers exploring up one of their elves, Josie Maran (13:40), intending to create another unbreakable province that could funnel gold to the rest of the kingdom during the upcoming war.
Sleepy exited FW on May 6th, YR 12, which caused some confusion in Secrets, who had expected Sleepy to remain in FW until their CF expired. Secrets began to suspect that Sleepy had other targets in mind, and their notice was merely a diversion. Their intuitions proved to be correct, when on March 14th, Sleepy waved Rage of Absalom, then the #1 kingdom for NW, starting on May 14th, YR 12. The next twist to the tale came on May 15th, YR 12, when Seasons waved Sleepy, as retribution for last age when Sleepy broke their NAP and cost Seasons a crown. Sleepy responded to the wave with a war declaration on May 15th, YR 12.
Like I said, Sleepy and Snowflake (SG, whatever) have been pulling this kind of crap for a long time. They break deals when they choose, they notice kingdoms to protect each other even if a CF prevents it, and never with any intention to actually fight it out fairly.
I wish I still had the priv chan logs I had of players running multis in Sleepy and Snowflake. *sigh*
I was hoping that'd be the case right from the start but after people starting repeatedly playing victims and explaining about what happened in such a selective manner, i felt obliged to create a forum account and give a non-biased account of this entire episode. Case close now then :)
I remember that incident quite clearly DHaran. I was the one who personally approached Snowflake leaders back then in the capacity of Sleepy's co-monarch and after several rounds of talks they finally agreed to a CF. This was how i got to know Snowflake's Singaporean leaders (back then) better. Prior to that that i barely know anyone. If you have priv channel logs of us sharing multis/players or whatever feel free to post it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DHaran
You mean you bailed Snowflake out from getting farmed by Secrets, then pretended to engage Secrets, then ran away to play your chaotic FSU games with Rage and Seasons. Sleepy knew the only kingdom on the server at the time who could take them 1 on 1 on even grounds was Secrets, which is why you never allowed it to go to war, but also continually protected Snowflake from getting farmed by us.
I didn't bring it up to discuss that, or Sleepy and Secrets dancing around, but mainly to point out the way you guys buddy around hasn't changed, so I'm not surprised how this turned out.