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That's different. I don't think you can say that the Inu?t are highly industrialized.
'Sustainable' harvest
The Inuit of Nunavut have only killed five bowhead whales since 1991, under a strict quota from the Canadian Government
[...] Japan is blocking hunting by indigenous people in retaliation for curbs on its own whaling
Sort of sketches the scene.
People have some strong views on this matter...
Meat is meat yes, yet i dislike the fact that whales are shot with explosive tipped harpoons and chopped up while still alive, there are better ways of finding food, as well as that the Japanese whaling fleet quite often journies and hunts through Australian waters yet our government does naught. if an Australian fishing boat were to appear in Japanese waters and shoot at sea creatures with explosive tipped harpoons i am assuming they would be arrested.
It is just that the ones doing the whaling have killed all of their own sea creatures and now are killing ones in farther off areas, in my mind it is just foolish and performed in a heartless and barbaric manner. Shoot the Japanese whaling fleet with torpedoes i say.
If not mistaken, whales are migratory, so the killing those in their own waters actually have a wider impact as those whales are not just confined to Japan. They actually came from somewhere else
Yes several species of whales migrate along the west and eastern coasts of Australia, Japanese men in boats follow the whales and shoot them with harpoons tipped with explosives, then drag the whales onboard and chop them up with halbeird like weapons while they are still alive. It is claimed it is for scientific research. Whale meat is sold in Asia. I am pretty good at math and i can put two and two together. If i were to buy a boat and sail out there, find some whales and start trying to kill them in the name of scientific research i am quite certain the coast guard would arrest me, why not the Japanese whaling fleet?
Because legally they are allowed to kill a certain amount of whales.
Am i legally allowed to kill a certain amount of whales?
In southwest west australia there have been a few people killed by sharks this year and the governments response was to impliment a catch and kill policy on large great white sharks in the area. It is a double standard if people are allowed to use explosives, nets and harpoons on sea creatures yet when a few people get taken by sharks we impliment a culling operation.
Personally i think if the Japanese have eaten all their own sea creatures they should have to deal with it, i see no reason to shoot explosive tipped harpoons at whales for 'scientific research' - are they researching the effects of explosives on whales? what are their results? that whales blow apart and bleed prousely when struck with an explosive charge? how does that help science?
Not to kind of piss on your parade here, but think about it this way. I am sure that if whales and sharks had the societal and cognitive abilities to form a 'kill squad' to overturn these boats and eat or drown everyone on them, they would.Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio86
As for their use of explosives...please tell me if you find a more humane way to kill something that's the size of a large building. ;)
I dont think there is any reason to kill the whales personally, that's that.
It isn't scientific research, it is just asians lying to people and slaughtering whales. It is bullocks, the asians have eaten everything in their own lands and waters and now they are spreading out and eating everything else that moves.
A more human way to something as big as a large building? hmm ... perhaps a giant hot-shot of heroine?
That is some hilarious racism. The Japanese have been whaling for almost a millennium.
"Japan maintains that annual whaling is sustainable and necessary for scientific study and management of whale stocks. Japan also argues that objections to whaling are based upon cultural differences and emotional anthropomorphism"
Ring any bells?
I must be said though that japan continues to whale by granting itself permission to do so -something that is definitely shady.
Isn't that what pretty much every country does now, with various things that much of the international world appears to disagree with?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Yes, the argument is that a sovereign nation is allowed to be sovereign - so the voluntary whaling group they are involved in cannot really tell them what to do.
Precisely. Though, as I said, if they are actually invading another country's waters, they should be driven out if the other country does not want them there.
However, I feel that the migratory argument brought up earlier is crap. That would be like saying you feel that your neighbor's mousetraps are wrong because they kill YOUR mice...who happen to wander into your neighbor's house.
the migratory argument is not my own, i just think it is a shame whales are being subjected to high explosives in the name of 'science' that is all
Why, are high explosives not efficient?
You think whales being blown apart for science is wrong? Let's not even get started on what billions of lab rats have had to go through to get our medical field where it is today.
The general consensus seems to be: if it helps our own species, to hell with the others' suffering. So, even if any of your arguments held weight, they would mostly fall upon deaf ears.
sigh
i might just bite my tongue mate, perhaps you should research the issue before posting ...
You brought this up :/
I understand your point, and from the individual perspective it could work. However, it is difficult for society as a whole to demonize whaling as cruel, while thinking that the testing of poisons, medications, radiation, etc. on rats is perfectly fine. It's not hard for many people to look down upon whaling, as they themselves do not eat the meat, or use any products containing it.
However, the Japanese obviously do use said things, and telling them it's bad would be the equivalent of them telling you that learning the effects of substances that you may one day use to better your health is bad, because the testing was done on rats, often in ways that make whaling deaths look pretty tame. Ever seen what happens to an animal when it's intentionally given radiation poisoning? Or rattlesnake venom in slow doses to find the L.D. 50 so a decent anti-venom can be made?
there is no scientific research being done
what could they discover from their experiments? they might discover that whales bleed when shot and stabbed. It is not science. It is harvesting done in another countries water's under the guise of scientific experimentation.
by the same logic australia could send commandoes into Japan and start killing their cattle and livestock and bringing the meat back home to Australia for 'scientific research'.
it just $hits me that the australian government is so weak and lame as not to do anything about it.
Like I said, if they are in another country's waters, then yes they should be expelled, however that is up to the government in control of that area, and no one else...especially not some jackass harassing people on the boats who are just trying to make an hourly wage. You've had a job I'm sure. You're just trying to make a living. What your bosses do with your work after you've done it, generally isn't your concern.
i never said it was, i just think it is a shame whales are being exploded and chopped up under the false pretence of science.
i say good on greenpeace, the rainbow warrior and all of them - at least they are standing up for what they beleive in. i have seen the footage of the asians with giant blades slicing the whales apart while they are still alive, the whaler's should be imprisoned or shot for such cruelty.
just my opinion.
if we shot all the whales it would solve the rising sea levels. for example put your hand in a bucket of water, and then remove it.. see what happens there.. no problem melting ice cap.
what i can say is, if they do it for food, it's what every living things do, but if they kill it for any other ****, then go to hell with whatever reason they come up with.
I had never thought of that ReturnoftheJedi :-)
So ... the Japanese whaling fleet is trying to save the world? Now i see!
:-)
I think the Sea Shepherd guys are doing a good job with public awareness. In order to get onto the six o'clock news they must be idiots and barge harpoon vessels and board Jap gov ships and create international tension. They are doing a huge amount of good just by getting people aware, something that Greenpeace does not do at all. I bet most of you in this thread would not even know that whaling still exists in the antarctic if the Sea Shepherds did not do what they did over the last few years.
For a while I thought that all they do is anti whaling stuff, but a recent visit to the Steve Irwin in Darling Harbour has enlightened me on their full scale of activities. They actually do allot of stuff off camera, they help many species of sea life that are unfairly fished. They sabotage static fishing nets all around the world on a yearly basis and a bunch of other shenanigans that is never shown on the news. In fact they have sunk a total of 11 'enemy' fishing boats/ships since they started.
However, I do not like the bias view of whales as being superia to any other mammal. What about the 1000's of Australian gov sanctioned, weekly killings of kangaroos? Allot of them with babies on board. Yes whales are endangered and kangaroos are in plague proportions but I think whales are given to much support. There are literally 1000's of endangered mammal species that we just dont seam to care about. Should whales be treated differently just because they are big and live in the sea? //end rant
sea shepherd makes me sympathetic to the Japanese whalers, is that their goal?
They are creating awareness of what's going on. Regardless of what a few randoms think, Bishop, the majority of the public are against whaling and against the Japanese actions in general. They are feeling the pressure. Pressure that would not be there without the sea shep actions on camera and the news. I too feel sympathy for the fishermen that are just working their trade, but you can't allow things to happen just because an innocent is the front man. Imagine if we did this with past events?
I think the focus of this thread is more on the Japanese government subsidies in place to support the whaling fleet every year. Government backed corporate greed of the slaughter of endangered animals just to continue a tradition is what I disagree with.
lol at Bishop.
No.
Their goal is stand up actively for something they passionately beleive in, which is a rare trait amongst modern humans.
^^ truth has been spoken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Indeed. I don't see why killing whales and seals for food is so frowned upon in the US. Anyone seen the Japanese Whaling episode South Park had? It was brilliant, just brilliant.
We kill cows and chickens for food, why not whales and seals unless they are an endangered species? Hypocricy...
I agree with that, have the same problem over here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
I think Japan should stop whaling, even when only for a certain period, so the number of whales can rise.
But before they do i would love to see them sink all them environment polluting Sea Shepherd ships with all them idiots on board and turn them into an artificial reef.
That would be a genuine win-win situation for the environment.
stoffi it is the fact they are doing it under the guise of scientific research and killing them in a butcheress and painfull manner that bothers me, also that is sis being done 'out of bounds' in Australian waters. Greenpeace are simply trying to stand up for a cause they beleive in, if i were the Prime Minister i would back them up with the Australian S.A.S troops.
Australian waters??Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio86
You sure about that?
You have any clue what is considered to be Australian waters?
Or where the Japanese are hunting
Common problem with environmental activists, they tend to judge without having a clue what they are talking about.
Yes i am sure.
I never claimed to be an environmental activitist.
Regardless of the territory issue i am simpy against the practise, for what it is in it's current form.
greenpeace have completely distanced themselves from sea shepherd due to their violence and law breaking.
Norway also kills whales, you can buy whale meat at the local fish market in my city, I've tried it a few times myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfshound
Unless whales are endangered, I don't see why we shouldn't kill and eat them like any other animal, we all eat meat every day. Some whale types are endangered and are not being hunted though.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_in_Norway
"Only Minke whaling is permitted, from a population of 107,000 animals in the North East Atlantic and is argued by proponents and government officials to be sustainable.[6] Still, it has been frequently criticized by the international community, environmentalists and animal rights groups as Norway, along with Iceland and Japan, is one of few countries that still allows whaling.
Norway registered an objection to the International Whaling Commission (IWC) commercial whaling moratorium, and is thus not bound by it[citation needed]. In 1993, Norway resumed a commercial catch, following a period of five years where a small catch was made under scientific permit. Norwegian Minke whale catches have fluctuated between 218 animals in 1995 and 646 in 2003.
During the decade immediately prior to the moratorium, Norway caught around 2,000 Minke whales per year. The North Atlantic hunt is divided into five areas and usually lasts from early May to late August. Norway has exported a limited amount of whale meat to the Faroes and Iceland. It has been attempting to export to Japan for several years and this was realized in 2009.[7]
In May 2004, the Norwegian Parliament passed a resolution to considerably increase the number of Minkes hunted each year. The Ministry of Fisheries also initiated a satellite tracking programme of various whale species to monitor migration patterns and diving behaviour. The tagging research program has been under way since 1999.[8]
Since 2006, when the Norwegian whaling quota was increased by 30%, Norwegian whalers have been allowed to hunt a quota of 1,052 Minke whales a year. Since the 1993 hunt resumption the Norwegian quota has rarely been fully met.[6]
"
We've been hunting whales for 1200 years in Norway and we there's no reason to stop atm. As it is now, more and more whale species are off the endangered lists and Norway might add these species to their hunting list.
As for the manner we kill whales, it's not worse than killing a deer or moose. 80% of all shots result in immediate death or stun. 10% survive the first shot and need to be shot again. This is nothing different than your average hunting party on land, going for deer or other big game.
As for Japan lying, I don't like that either, but you can't really blame them.
Let's kill some whales!
I disagree. Each to their own.
I understand that whaling is a tradition, but so was lynching african americans, some traditions deserve to be ceased.
For food purposes there are far more viable options, growing potatoes one of them, or creating fish farms another. Sending fleets of ships sailing about the southern oceans firing explosive tipped harpoons at whales, then dragging them onboard alive, is needless and heartless cruelty. I am not sure at all where you got your statistics from regarding kill shot efficiency, i have seen footage of alive, blinking, whales being cut apart with halbeird like weapons.
I never mentioned Norway as i live in the south west of Western Australia, i am aiming this discussion at Japanese whaling fleets operating in Australian terrirorial water's, hunting and killing whales under the false guise of scientific research.
Ofcourse i can blame them. They are at fault.
Let's kill some humans!
I've seen pictures of Deer or Moose being cut apart as well. I've also seen pictures of humans being cut apart, or chicken, cows, sheep, etc. What's your point here? That all killing methods are not bullet proof?Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio86
90% of all whales die immediately, just like any other big game hunt. The harpoon will explode on impact, thus killing the whale on impact, just a like a bullet would. I really don't see the problem.
Do you eat meat? Are you a vegetarian? What meat do you prefer to eat?
If you are a meat eater, you're a big hypocrit.
Comparing whaling with lynching blacks and killing humans in general makes you sound like a fanatic animal activist. Are you an animal activist who refuses to eat meat and feels animals should be treated the same as humans? No? I didn't think so, no. Your comparisons are way, way off.
I eat meat, i have worked in abbotoirs mate, i know where meat comes from.
If you actually read my post, instead of just qouting people as everybody here seems to, my point is the cruelty with which it is done and the fact it is done under the guise of scientific research, this bothers me.
When deer or moose are cut up they are dead, when whales are cut up they are alive and gasping for breath.
Whaling is not big game hunting. As far as big game hunting is concerned i think it is done by men trying to make up for 'something' they lack in their own masculinity.
SIGH The comparison was in the sense of continuing whaling as a tradition, in that not all traditions should be continued 'just for the sake of cultural tradition'.
Please read before commenting, i have already said i an not an envionmental activist.
How am i am hypocrite because i eat meat? I have worked in abbotoirs before mate.