How did USA become such a messed up country?

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02-03-2012, 21:28
Jo3MoMMa

The USA is not a messed up country, We are not at are peak and have work to do but id say that is the main cause of our "decline." There's a huge work ethic difference between the past generations our current and our future ones.

And the US>Norway
Norway wouldnt be close to where it is without the US

Think of it like this, Norway is a crumb snatcher... a piggy backer... cherry picker... however you want to put it. They our successful off the US and other capitalist countries research and development. Lets see one of Norway's largest exports is oil, hmm I wonder why it is in such high demand. Not to mention you pay double at the pump what I pay in America. Oh they have free healthcare, thats awesome, I wonder where all the research and development came from, I mean the US has what double the Nobel Prize winners in medicine the past 10 years compared to the rest of the world.

Dont diss the reason you have luxuries, when your country can put up 94 billion in biomedical research then say something till then stfu.
Oh also Norways taxes are some of the highest in the world

Which country is better would be of personal opinion, I'm a big city type guy so id have to side with the US on this one
03-03-2012, 00:26
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo3MoMMa

The USA is not a messed up country, We are not at are peak and have work to do but id say that is the main cause of our "decline." There's a huge work ethic difference between the past generations our current and our future ones.

And the US>Norway
Norway wouldnt be close to where it is without the US

Think of it like this, Norway is a crumb snatcher... a piggy backer... cherry picker... however you want to put it. They our successful off the US and other capitalist countries research and development. Lets see one of Norway's largest exports is oil, hmm I wonder why it is in such high demand. Not to mention you pay double at the pump what I pay in America. Oh they have free healthcare, thats awesome, I wonder where all the research and development came from, I mean the US has what double the Nobel Prize winners in medicine the past 10 years compared to the rest of the world.

Dont diss the reason you have luxuries, when your country can put up 94 billion in biomedical research then say something till then stfu.
Oh also Norways taxes are some of the highest in the world

Which country is better would be of personal opinion, I'm a big city type guy so id have to side with the US on this one

At the same time I will agree with you about the future generations as a youth my self born of the X generation, however, I disagree with you. What is the problem is the matter of group thinking and reliance of the government solving all our problems, the fact that our youth doesn't give a flying f$%k about their future or where its heading, the united states used to be NUMBER 1 NUMBER ONE IN EDUCATION and now we have dropped to 21 because not only of rising cost in tuition and drop of FAFSA (and anyone who says you have to be fcking rich to go to school in the united states, im here to PROVE YOU WRONG IM POOR IM UNEMPLOYED IM TRAILOR TRASH ( as some of you put it) I have been attending school for 1.5 years earning a 3.5 GPa or better and in PTK international honor society yeah and we talked about this at our regional conference this weekend while I was away. this is one of the main reasons I wanted some time to talk this over and take time to wait to post on this.

Many of you say the problems are withint he infrastructure and our system: I am here to tell you its not the sysem, nor the people. Yeah its messed up and the government is basically turned into a dictatorship; despite this, when you step back and look at the past 50-60 years, I CAN SEE WHY, all we do when we have issues is hold out our hands like fcking children "help help. MOMMY MOMMY HELP ME, FEED ME, GIVE ME WORK, GIVE ME MONEY, GIVE ME FOOD" when you allow the government to provide for you as a parent it will take control (it has nothing to do with big corporations in politics or church in state) you wanna know the real problem

its nothing to do with government > its the people. I am an AMERICAN if you disagree or troll on me and say other wise, then I am here to tell you.

Your opinions or envy towards me or hatred or whatever you call it to justify your attacks toward me. Is your own choice, this is my choice to address this matter: Those who say i did this for attention are wrong; those who are saying I did this for post count are wrong; those who oppose my argument, then get me facts. Get me evidence, show me your data, statistics, show me your empirical first hand experiences that I have and my own personal evidence of this lack of motivation and care. It is just not the government, the parents, the children, the new youth who are becoming into adulthood: it is a factor of everything and as we are grown in this world we cannot exclude the external variances we are facing here and we cannot ignore the fact of the world we live in, for if we deny that we use the government and allow them to control our lives or help us in SOME aspect be it (Food, financial aid for college, wel-fare, disability, social security, "st vincent de paul or some church or non-profit organization or help, such as food banks or anything") you are leaning on your government and your local community which is not a big ordeal who cares about the typical stereo type of "oh he goes to the food bank, that person is nasty: or you know he must be poor because he has food stamp card! or you know he is a slob look at his clothes!" I am here to tell you it has nothing to do if your homeless, rich, poor, middle-class, a wage slave (which is middle class to me: this was a term my psychology professor used last summer), a student, a youth, an elder, a government worker. the point is we are human, we are here, we are american, we are american native and we need to brace this. We are one of the most multi-diversed countries in the world!! WE are also one of the "Largest" (with obesity please do not take this as an insult or pun. I am saying these all are generalities) in the world! America is not just"one thing, nor is it many things: america is not keyed into term" We have become weak because our morals and values have been destroyed: The american society is not lost!! to say such slander is to assume one has the ability to control human minds with ones own (a bad analogy I know, yet it works) I could go on and on and on with such a broad topic it is quite curious and entertaining at the same time how many of you all post one liners, or dis on american or any other nationality: or ethnicity (you say things such as "race" or "norwegian") being prideful is nothing wrong: yet to spurt it around with arrogance is not! this is not an attack or personal in any way or means ( as I stated I am an american: and I am sad to say I am not proud of the world I live in or grew up in sometimes I am ashamed to say "im american") Yet to show fear is to give the beast the bone to feast upon easily and give in and/or up. . . . . .

I love america and grew up here, naturally I am patriotic and for my country: I am just not supportive of how our country is run; moreover, I am not proud of how people treat themselves and others in our country. there are many that I love and respect and hug and share interests with!! Yet that is so minuscule to minute, that it does not make an impact: yet at the same time the idiom is it only takes "one" It can take one, yet how many will that "one" impact or get through too: It is more where your level dedication or "love" is and how big scale you are operating on. There is a quote I like to use to explain this very much so "A ripple is only a ripple unless others pick up on the wave and begin realizing the tide of what is going on around them: For if you do not know or realize what is going on around you, how can the ripple turn into a wave of affect to prosper the entire pond?" (it is off key and worded, however, It is credited the source is unknown it was something I read a long time ago in a video game) So while I see many people in here going up and down and fighting with rather dull banter this is my opinion and thoughts (there is much I have left out and much I have not said or touched base on however, you asked for an opinion so here it is)
03-03-2012, 05:36
RoseRedAus

Well I'm from Australia (which I love), but if something catastrophic ever happened that I had to move from my country .... and it would have to be something absolutely disasterous ... like the whole continent being swallowed up by the ocean (or Tony Abbott becoming Prime Minister) ... I would choose Norway.

Norway is constantly being voted as the country having the best quality of life. It has a fantastic education system. It's health system would beat the US hands down. And all in all I think it would be the place I would choose to go if I ever had to leave Oz.

As much as I don't have anything against Americans, and our two countries have been allies for donkey's years, it's really not somewhere I could ever imagine myself living.
03-03-2012, 09:40
octobrev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jo3MoMMa

The USA is not a messed up country, We are not at are peak and have work to do but id say that is the main cause of our "decline."

Don't Americans speak English? It's not safe to cling to a sinking ship.
03-03-2012, 16:55
Jo3MoMMa

Quote:

Originally Posted by octobrev

Don't Americans speak English? It's not safe to cling to a sinking ship.

Well said, but is the ship really sinking?

I see it more as we just need to rebuild the engine
03-03-2012, 17:55
octobrev

We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.
03-03-2012, 17:55
octobrev

There have been 3 suicides in my neighborhood this past month.
03-03-2012, 18:44
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by octobrev

We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.

this is not true, if all of our rich/wealthy/powerful people stuck all their money into our deficit we woudl probably be near 0 and close to positivie balance, (i mean EVERYONE, anyone who nets millions a f#cking quarter)
03-03-2012, 19:42
octobrev

No you are mistaken. Wouldn't begin to cover it.
04-03-2012, 16:58
Jo3MoMMa

Quote:

Originally Posted by octobrev

We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.

Dude i expected better from you
If you think we are "practically third world" go check out a third world country, then maybe you'll see the difference.
Just because the money doesnt exist does not mean it cannot be paid off. think of it like this, i make 50k a year, i buy a house that cost 500k, does that mean i cannot get out of debt?

Reducing the debt is a fairly simple task, but we would have to change an open our minds to some different more dynamic ideas.

We could set a 5% national sales tax
We could raise the retirement age, its not like the majority of workers do physically demanding jobs anymore
We could open the borders
We could listen to the gang of six, and revamp the tax code<----- My Favorite
04-03-2012, 18:42
octobrev

"Just because the money doesnt exist does not mean it cannot be paid off."
I want everybody to reflect on this line for a minute.
The people making "millions a quarter" do so because of a little thing called capital investment. They're making that money because they bought that house for you and you're going to spend your entire life paying it back with interest. Now, if they were to spend that capital on the national debt, you lose your house and your stupid family rots on the streets. Not paying the debt is the only way to sustain our standard of living because all the money that exists in the system is a consequence of debt.
In terms of the rankings, we are basically third world. It's just going to take a few years for the whole thing to collapse and the standard of living to drop to its rightful place. I'll be in Norway in 2 years so good luck here everyone.
04-03-2012, 19:18
citadela01

Quote:

Originally Posted by octobrev

We are practically third world in education, healthcare, and welfare. Standard of living is in free fall. As for the debt that you're so afraid of, it cannot be paid off. The money to repay it simply does not exist in our system. The GDP is an inflated economic measurement as the same dollar can be counted thousands of different times as it trades hands and is, in no way, a measurement of the money we actually have. The whole thing was designed to fail as it can only function in a state of continuous expansion. The founding fathers would turn in their graves if they saw what we had going here.

octo pretty much nailed it here I think.
I kinda fear the moment USA is no longer able to sustain itself by canibalizing its population and 3rd world resources, oil in particular. Once that sh*t hits the fan you dont want to be close to them or their huge military.
05-03-2012, 20:05
freemehul

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

Where did it go wrong?

I mean, no social security, no health coverage, 40 million poor, plenty more trailer trash, a middle class withering away, religious fanatics taking over, mad cowboy presidents and ignorance flourishing.

What do you think went wrong?

it started to go wrong when they printed the first dollar bill

I'm all for free... anything and so on, but not when it comes to a free masonic handshake. Corruption is the biggest impediment to civil liberties and the eye of providence is a telltale sign of it.
06-03-2012, 19:40
Topsy

Quote:

Originally Posted by octobrev

"Just because the money doesnt exist does not mean it cannot be paid off."
I want everybody to reflect on this line for a minute.
The people making "millions a quarter" do so because of a little thing called capital investment. They're making that money because they bought that house for you and you're going to spend your entire life paying it back with interest. Now, if they were to spend that capital on the national debt, you lose your house and your stupid family rots on the streets. Not paying the debt is the only way to sustain our standard of living because all the money that exists in the system is a consequence of debt.
In terms of the rankings, we are basically third world. It's just going to take a few years for the whole thing to collapse and the standard of living to drop to its rightful place. I'll be in Norway in 2 years so good luck here everyone.

If people making "a million a quarter" gave more income tax, it would have zero effect on you possessing a home. Pay to executives of fortune 500 companies has grown considerably the last 50 years, having almost no correlation to the change in profit created by the companies that those executives work for. It may affect discretionary spending on the part of the executives, but the companies themselves would maintain the same portfolios(maybe a few less 20million dollar homes, which is a real thing)

As for share holders of the major companies that buy you your house, most of them are conglomerations of people in funds who have no interest in you owning the house at all, as those are often inestments that exist for 30 years or so, and they are very unlikely to hold that stock for even a fraction of that amount of time. Regardless, taxing the incredibly wealthy investor will affect his discretionary spending, not his investment spending. This will obviously have the effect of negatively impacting those sectors he would normally spend money in, but the effect of that isn't nearly as far reaching.

Norway, btw, isn't too bad of an example of how much a progressive tax structure in which funds are used for high impact investments into the value of the citizenry(health care, education) destroys your country(answer: not too much).
07-03-2012, 00:29
Meeni

Isn't discretionary spending the reason 80%+ of the consumer goods market exists, and 100% of luxury goods? That's a lot of industries that wouldn't be around otherwise. The impact of high taxation is probably pretty high. Not to mention investment dollars that wouldn't be around either.
09-03-2012, 18:10
stoffi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Topsy

If people making "a million a quarter" gave more income tax, it would have zero effect on you possessing a home.

Of course it would have an impact! It would mean more money to help those who are less fortunate, thus dragging them up from the mud making them middle class citizens rather than white trash ghetto sh*t. Social mobility! But as long as people are held down like they are in the States, they will forever be held down except for a few sunshine stories once in a while to boost the egoes of some rich people who "help them" out of their misery.
09-03-2012, 20:49
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

Of course it would have an impact! It would mean more money to help those who are less fortunate, thus dragging them up from the mud making them middle class citizens rather than white trash ghetto sh*t. Social mobility! But as long as people are held down like they are in the States, they will forever be held down except for a few sunshine stories once in a while to boost the egoes of some rich people who "help them" out of their misery.

I have to respectfully disagree with everything you have said

say what you want, say what you will. If you are not an american or have not visited our country then do not be so biased and quick handed to judge. (white trash ghetto) Your attempts to even prevent an argument is so infinitesimal that you make my generalization look like an educated opinion. that is how bad you are making your self look (forgive me for insulting, however, if he wants to troll and act like a jerk then this arrogant and ignorant person should get a life) like a fool!

It is sad. all you want to do is dirt talk us and downgrade us? really?
09-03-2012, 21:08
flutterby

I'm American and I am inclined to agree with Stoffi.
09-03-2012, 21:17
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

I'm American and I am inclined to agree with Stoffi.

then you are of the generation who seeks pity and look to the government to fix everything
09-03-2012, 21:17
Kemia

Not being mean. Sorry, I do not know you. And I do not want to judge you in such a way.
11-03-2012, 13:50
Azartyn

First off I want to clarify one thing. America is NOT the biggest polluter of the world any longer. Look to China and India for that.

Now, where to start for you ignorant people that think America is some third world country. Learn REAL American history NOT the revised American history that some liberal professor is teaching. Where did America start its decline? All you have to do is look back to the early 1900's with America's first "progressive" president. Woodrow Wilson. He wanted complete control aka dictatorship and to get people dependent on government. If you control their what they get you can control them. Next, FDR who was the biggest loser and extended the Great Depression longer than it should have (see the roaring 20s for the successes less government/lower taxes have) Now, for all you people that say we dropped bombs and killed thousands of people..you seem to forget. WE WERE ATTACKED FIRST. Pearl Harbor ring a bell to anyone. I dont see anyone of you saying how many American's were slaughtered at Pearl Harbor before we dropped the bombs. Oh and Norway and Sweden..um if it wasn't for us, you would be speaking German right now. Hitler ring a bell? SO...you should be thanking us, not slamming us for what you have. Now, as far as our educational system....hmm seems we were leading the world until the 1970's UNTIL Jimmy Carter(the worst president ever until now)got the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT involved in 1978 and started the Department of Education. Ever since the US educational system has gone down. ANYTHING the government gets its hands on it ruins. Look at a few examples. Education - steady decline since Carter, AmTrak-broke, Postal Service-broke. The government ruins things...not helps them. Another thing that has America is the bad shape its in is the OVERSPENDING OF GOVERNMENT. Look how much money the US sends to other countries compared to ANY of the ones you tout are so wonderful. We give MORE than your country MAKES in a year yet when you all get in trouble who do run to? Yeah, that's right...The US.
Lets talk about apples to apples here folks. You cant compare Norway, Sweden who has no where near the population the US does. Anyway, if you want to have a factual debate. I will gladly do it with you..but this is just a quick synopsis. If you want detailed debate..post what you THINK you know and I will give you the REAL facts. Oh...one last thing. As far as Social Security...it was meant to be a "safety net for your last couple years of life...NOT to live off of for 30 years. Social Security is a ponzi scheme started by another PROGRESSIVE president. Every one in this country has the same OPPORTUNITY...Its just not handed to you...you have to WORK FOR IT. Something the last generation has no clue about.
11-03-2012, 14:28
tris06

Good point

Well sure you are going to find america haters and lovers here and I seen both on here.
But from myself I feel US is a little in decline it will need more support for other countries with similar ideas to keep such dominance in the far future. While it may be in decline its not to say their will be a collapse of power in the USA. The biggest issue by far is the US debt problem. And really countries are starting to tire of sending money to USA to provide for the wasteful habits of the past.
I have yet seen any proof that both sides of politics can save money. They have said oh in 5-10 years they will save this much but we need to spend more now so we can then save later on.
USA is currently in a very good position by being a reserve currency but gradually that is being worn down and so therefore rating downgrades and more exspensive borrowing occurs.. Sure they can probably dig themselves out of a hole but to be realistic its going to have to hurt badly to get it done.

Most interestingly will be see how they can cut down on one of their most wasteful spending which is defence. Especially now pulled out of Iraq and hopefully out of Aganistan in a few years. But it will mean that for USA to save their economy they will need to focus on inside the borders because they cannot afford to have another iraq or even smaller operations like Libya.

I lose much confidence when I see Republican candidates making oil drilling and oil price at the pump a huge issue. Something like wanting to have petrol(gasoline) at $2.5 a gallon.

I am in China right now and they are paying like 5 dollars a gallon at the moment even with some government subsidies. I know also in my home country Australia its even higher around 6-7 dollars a gallon. Is it a bad thing for americans to size down getting smaller cars to reduce petrol consumption?... maybe pay some tax on the petrol to help pay off the debt, extend the worlds oil supply so we can eventually find alternative ways to have private transport. Sounds all good to me.

This issue is too huge to say all so best not bore you with all detials.
USA will still be a very powerful nation in the future but it will need to share it with other powers.
Americans who cannot look at this and feel this true are in state of denial.
11-03-2012, 15:41
Magn

Quote:

Originally Posted by tris06

Well sure you are going to find america haters and lovers here and I seen both on here.
But from myself I feel US is a little in decline it will need more support for other countries with similar ideas to keep such dominance in the far future. While it may be in decline its not to say their will be a collapse of power in the USA. The biggest issue by far is the US debt problem. And really countries are starting to tire of sending money to USA to provide for the wasteful habits of the past.
I have yet seen any proof that both sides of politics can save money. They have said oh in 5-10 years they will save this much but we need to spend more now so we can then save later on.
USA is currently in a very good position by being a reserve currency but gradually that is being worn down and so therefore rating downgrades and more exspensive borrowing occurs.. Sure they can probably dig themselves out of a hole but to be realistic its going to have to hurt badly to get it done.

Most interestingly will be see how they can cut down on one of their most wasteful spending which is defence. Especially now pulled out of Iraq and hopefully out of Aganistan in a few years. But it will mean that for USA to save their economy they will need to focus on inside the borders because they cannot afford to have another iraq or even smaller operations like Libya.

I lose much confidence when I see Republican candidates making oil drilling and oil price at the pump a huge issue. Something like wanting to have petrol(gasoline) at $2.5 a gallon.

I am in China right now and they are paying like 5 dollars a gallon at the moment even with some government subsidies. I know also in my home country Australia its even higher around 6-7 dollars a gallon. Is it a bad thing for americans to size down getting smaller cars to reduce petrol consumption?... maybe pay some tax on the petrol to help pay off the debt, extend the worlds oil supply so we can eventually find alternative ways to have private transport. Sounds all good to me.

This issue is too huge to say all so best not bore you with all detials.
USA will still be a very powerful nation in the future but it will need to share it with other powers.
Americans who cannot look at this and feel this true are in state of denial.

I think industrialized nations need to get off the oil wagon, period.

Nevermind climate change, oil is a limited ressource which is in great part concentrated in a politically unstable areas of the world.

Given our current infrastructure, if the price of oil soared too high, our economy would collapse and a lot of people would starve to death (or freeze to death in the winter for northern nations) and generally have no means of transportation.

Peak oil is a real issue and looking at Republican/Conservative policies, it seems like they will do something about it... when the problem hits us right in the face.

That's not proactive politics, these are politics of reaction and with the knowledge base that we have, we can do a lot better than that.

Sure, renewable alternative energy sources would cost more in the short term, but then how much is the stability and long term well being of the current prosperity we are experiencing worth to you?

For my part, I'd rather have a few less gysmos, but be guaranteed that there will be food on the table 15 years from now.

The problem with modern economy is that it gets hooked on useless crap rather than what we urgently need.
11-03-2012, 20:10
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemia

then you are of the generation who seeks pity and look to the government to fix everything

I'm of the generation that doesn't give a damn. The government won't fix anything until it is wiped clean and their roles rewritten. There is no will to do so at this point.
So I sit here and watch and form opinions. We can talk about things until our faces turn blue but until there is a drastic change, it's not going to be any better. We've
been slipping down the slope for decades because (in my opinion) of partisan politics, they're too worried about their party and not worried enough about what is happening
to the country and the people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tris06

Is it a bad thing for americans to size down getting smaller cars to reduce petrol consumption?... maybe pay some tax on the petrol to help pay off the debt, extend the worlds oil supply so we can eventually find alternative ways to have private transport. Sounds all good to me.

There is a tax on gas here. I'm not sure what the percentage is, if it is state mandated or federalized.
11-03-2012, 20:16
stoffi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemia

I have to respectfully disagree with everything you have said

say what you want, say what you will. If you are not an american or have not visited our country then do not be so biased and quick handed to judge. (white trash ghetto) Your attempts to even prevent an argument is so infinitesimal that you make my generalization look like an educated opinion. that is how bad you are making your self look (forgive me for insulting, however, if he wants to troll and act like a jerk then this arrogant and ignorant person should get a life) like a fool!

It is sad. all you want to do is dirt talk us and downgrade us? really?

There's only one person dirt talking and trolling here and that person is you. Learn to cope with criticism, it's part of everyone's world.

It hardly matters if I'm an American or have visited America or not. Americans can be ignorant and stupid and not know anything about their own country(as can anyone else in other countries) and if I visited the US, I wouldn't learn much about anything.

If you can't deal with criticism, don't post here.

To the other posters:

I too agree that welfare isn't something you're supposed to live off for years and years, as many people do in Norway. Norway has the highest number of people on welfare in the world, including retired people. This is due to a mix of several factors, high life expectancy, lazy people encouraged by the welfare system and immigrants from third world countries. Immigrants from certain muslim countries in Africa and the Middle East just don't work, with 75-80% of them being on welfare even after decades in Norway. They know more about the Norwegian welfare system than Norwegians do and come because of this. Absolutely apalling if you ask me.

I also know several people who chose to stop working and went on welfare instead. Also, if you're a single mum with 4-5-6 kids(like many people(50%) from a certain country speculate in by divorcing their husband on paper but not in reality), you will make 70000-90000 dollars a year.

The US on the other hand, is on the other end of the scale. Social mobility is completely fekked up and if you're born into poverty, you'll definitively stay there. 15% of the population(45 million people!!!) live in absolute poverty and lots more can be considered poor, "trailer trash". Your jails are absolutely horrible and can only be compared with near third world countries. Yes, criminals must be punished but not like that. Any person who has to serve time will be forced into gangs for protection, making him more criminal.

Poor people just need a helping hand, they are not lazy, they are not less intelligent, but that's how Americans think of them, just like it was in the 19th century before we grew more civilised. The US is a story of the genre Realism. If your parents are poor, you will be poor. There is no help to be gotten except for the brightest of the brightest. Religious fanatism is spreading and we see the same trend as in Afghanistan and Iraq, it's all going to hell.

History shows us that all great civilisation will fall and the US is absolutely on its way down, with China taking over, and maybe even Russia coming back under dictator Putin. The American masses are becoming illiterate fools, it needs to be turned around. Big corps run too much, but who will buy their goods when the Americans can't afford to buy anything?

Btw, how much is a gallon in liters?
11-03-2012, 22:02
flutterby

About 3.8 liters per gallon, in my area it's roughly .97 a litre. I understand that we don't pay so much for it but I know our minimum wage is lower in my area.
I would figure out the difference but I have kids screeching over the volume of DBZ. :P
11-03-2012, 22:38
Azartyn

Obviously you people that dont live in the US have no clue how many welfare programs we have here and what amount money it costs people. There are over 40million people on food stamps. Don't get me wrong, I understand people need a hand every once in a while but people live off this their whole life. Another thing you ignorant people have no clue is about the tax structure in the US. Over 48% of the people contribute NOTHING to income taxes and a lot of them actually get a REFUND even though they contribute NOTHING. Our corporate income tax rate is the HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. The government even taxes you and family when YOU DIE(aka a death tax). We pay approximately .48/gal of TAX to the federal government who do NOTHING but cause oil companies problems. Also, you people talking about "alternative energy" it is not feasible and cost twice as much if not more. Let me say this very clear for you ignorant people.....the GOVERNMENT, especially the current administration is doing NOTHING but making things HARDER for people and is trying to turn the US into Greece. Debate me with facts to prove me wrong NOT opinion. If you can.

Oh and Stoffi...you are so full of s**t about if you are born into poverty you will stay there. People born into poverty here CHOOSE to stay there and game the system. In what country do you know where someone in poverty has a flat screen TV hanging on the wall, driving around in a Cadillac carrying a cell phone. Yeah, sounds like poverty to me. Hard work and personal responsibility will get you out of poverty. Have facts please instead of conjecture and just flat out ignorance.
11-03-2012, 23:00
flutterby

What about you people in America who are judgmental about people who use government programs even though they work two jobs, pay taxes and can't make ends meet? It doesn't matter if it's the leeches of
society that use them but everyone looks down on people on welfare programs regardless of whether they abuse them or not.
12-03-2012, 00:47
Forwyn

The first thread I click on has someone *****ing about a mod.

Man, censorship sucks. Now I remember why I left.
12-03-2012, 01:03
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forwyn

The first thread I click on has someone *****ing about a mod.

Man, censorship sucks. Now I remember why I left.

Off-topic much?
12-03-2012, 01:15
Forwyn

I know, right? And you know, anything thats off-topic in a thread as broad as "the problems of country X" must be immediately deleted. Don't contribute anything else to the thread, simply remark on a specific posting's status as off-topic. Good job, clown.
12-03-2012, 02:58
tris06

Alternative Energy sources.

I would agree with the americans comments on one thing.

Power Alternatives are too exspensive and therefore not cost effective compared to other forms.

I think the move to electric cars is a good move for short distance driving.. aka under 200km round trips. Then this brings up the issue of how to generate the electricity. Yes over time we should move away from fossil fuels which like oil it has a finite resource.

I am very supportive of more nuclear and hopefully in the not long term future fusion energy.
Just for those who want to know while fission engergy..aka Nuclear power. Fussion is the same as what happens in our sun. While sounds little futuristic they are building a world first trail power station in France.

Now assuming proper funding nuclear presently can be very safe form of energy and few have ever died from nuclear disasters. I am sad to see my Australian government which is far more socialist than say USA democrats dont even consider this.
12-03-2012, 04:45
flutterby

I don't think that our government truly believes in long term cost effectiveness. Our society is one of instant gratification. It comes from the attitude
of "I didn't have this when I was a child so I'm going to give my child whatever they want." In turn, greed has turned into the top priority of the people
who are 'in charge'. My thoughts anyway.
12-03-2012, 07:51
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forwyn

I know, right? And you know, anything thats off-topic in a thread as broad as "the problems of country X" must be immediately deleted. Don't contribute anything else to the thread, simply remark on a specific posting's status as off-topic. Good job, clown.

Huh? What the **** are you talking about man?
12-03-2012, 08:10
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

I don't think that our government truly believes in long term cost effectiveness. Our society is one of instant gratification. It comes from the attitude
of "I didn't have this when I was a child so I'm going to give my child whatever they want." In turn, greed has turned into the top priority of the people
who are 'in charge'. My thoughts anyway.

The problem lies in people wanting money over trying to be productive to society through their own passions. People think they need money in order to be happy and to live, but the truth is that money comes after you're already happy and living.

Your right, our government cares too much about short term payouts, but this is a problem in the larger part of society, not just our government (im talking about everywhere in the goddamn planet).

Money isn't the problem though, the problem lies in man, and man's inability to become something greater than a mindless beast.
12-03-2012, 08:40
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemia

then you are of the generation who seeks pity and look to the government to fix everything

I've read this entire thread and the above quote is the truest statement here.

Stoffi and Flutterby, do you guys know why America is the greatest country ever? And still is?

Because if you put your mind to it, you can still achieve anything in the US. If you disagree then i feel sad for you. Money isnt the problem, greed isnt the problem, people with power is not the problem, the government is not the problem, the problem lies in people inable to work at what they love and to be happy themselves. So instead of working, they complain about sh*t. Stop giving up + feeling so hopeless, and thinking theres a problem with everything; lifes not supposed to be so easy, imperfection is what makes the world beautiful...

The problem is you.
12-03-2012, 11:33
stoffi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azartyn

Obviously you people that dont live in the US have no clue how many welfare programs we have here and what amount money it costs people. There are over 40million people on food stamps. Don't get me wrong, I understand people need a hand every once in a while but people live off this their whole life. Another thing you ignorant people have no clue is about the tax structure in the US. Over 48% of the people contribute NOTHING to income taxes and a lot of them actually get a REFUND even though they contribute NOTHING. Our corporate income tax rate is the HIGHEST IN THE WORLD. The government even taxes you and family when YOU DIE(aka a death tax). We pay approximately .48/gal of TAX to the federal government who do NOTHING but cause oil companies problems. Also, you people talking about "alternative energy" it is not feasible and cost twice as much if not more. Let me say this very clear for you ignorant people.....the GOVERNMENT, especially the current administration is doing NOTHING but making things HARDER for people and is trying to turn the US into Greece. Debate me with facts to prove me wrong NOT opinion. If you can.

Oh and Stoffi...you are so full of s**t about if you are born into poverty you will stay there. People born into poverty here CHOOSE to stay there and game the system. In what country do you know where someone in poverty has a flat screen TV hanging on the wall, driving around in a Cadillac carrying a cell phone. Yeah, sounds like poverty to me. Hard work and personal responsibility will get you out of poverty. Have facts please instead of conjecture and just flat out ignorance.

You disgrace your American fellows and help build up the stereotype the world has about Americans, the stereotype of the ignorant cowboy. "Who cares about knowledge, eh? We are the best anyways"

As Flutterby says, what about those that work two jobs and still have to go on welfare? There's 12.8 million unemployed people in the States, most of them unwillingly unemployed. 22% of all children in the US are poor children, despite having parents who work their arses off with 2 jobs and a wage no Western European would touch. I'd like to see you tell them that they have a choice.
In addition, The official poverty measure has been criticized for not accounting for several factors that can affect a family's economic well-being and for not having been updated, except for inflation, for four decades. Aka, the real figure is probably a lot higher.

The US can only be compared with former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe in this.

The notion about poor people being lazy was a term that lived through the Dark Ages and only just disappeared in the 19th century. But for people without history, it's hard to learn from past mistakes. Poor people in the US work several jobs but the minimum wage is just too low, they can't afford proper food, they can't afford healthcare, they can't afford to educate their children. What hope do they have? Their children will most likely end up in the same situation as themselves because you have to PAY to go to uni, and they are not likely to finish High School.

In Norway, university is free, you get 1100 dollars per month in scholarship/loan(you get the scholarship only if you pass the exams) by the government, investing in your education so that you may provide for it when you are finished, and help Norway prosper. We have no minimum wage but I don't know about any jobs which pay less than 20 dollars per hour, thus making the "poor" able to stay with us in society, paying taxes, buying goods, fueling the economy, lowering crime, etc.
We don't have crime except for junkies, Eastern Europeans gangs/groups who visit and certain immigrant groups who rape our daughters and rob our sons.

NO ONE CHOOSES to stay in poverty. NO ONE! It's a myth existing in your head and in many Americans' heads. Those of us who know a bit about society and history can see further than our own noses, not repeating the errors of those before us again and again, as you are.

And yes, many people don't pay enough taxes in the US. I'm sure you've heard about the Buffet Tax which Obama is trying to impose. The fact that Buffet's secretary has to pay a lot more than Buffet(in relative terms) is just wow....

Also, you don't know a lot about other countries if you think taxation is bad in the US. E.g. taxation of the dead is quite normal, and your company taxes are NOT high.

Hard work and personal responsibility will NOT get you out of poverty and poverty is now at its highest in a long time. They just need some social mobility.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

I've read this entire thread and the above quote is the truest statement here.

Stoffi and Flutterby, do you guys know why America is the greatest country ever? And still is?

Because if you put your mind to it, you can still achieve anything in the US. If you disagree then i feel sad for you. Money isnt the problem, greed isnt the problem, people with power is not the problem, the government is not the problem, the problem lies in people inable to work at what they love and to be happy themselves. So instead of working, they complain about sh*t. Stop giving up + feeling so hopeless, and thinking theres a problem with everything; lifes not supposed to be so easy, imperfection is what makes the world beautiful...

The problem is you.

That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.

America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.
12-03-2012, 12:44
DHaran

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forwyn

The first thread I click on has someone *****ing about a mod.

Man, censorship sucks. Now I remember why I left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forwyn

I know, right? And you know, anything thats off-topic in a thread as broad as "the problems of country X" must be immediately deleted. Don't contribute anything else to the thread, simply remark on a specific posting's status as off-topic. Good job, clown.

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about? I don't see any moderation in this thread....
12-03-2012, 15:08
stoffi

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHaran

Does anyone know what this guy is talking about? I don't see any moderation in this thread....

That guy is just here to troll, not participating in any discussion.
12-03-2012, 15:27
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

That guy is just here to troll, not participating in any discussion.

he seen the thread and probably ignored 90% of it and did not read any of it and is here to b!tch and complain and all that good stuff xD I.E. post counts. anyways, i will get back to everyone in a few days alot of replies have been added and i must read them accordingly and get some thought and structure on this to give a rebuttal

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