Havoc vs AMA Round 2

I'm not making excuses or spinning or doing a PR stunt tbh. This is 100% real talk. I don't like spinning.

1) We had to WD to save cow. Yes, you could say we were scared of losing cow.
2) We now face a decision to make between AMA and BB. We can either go after the kd that we just fought with who is softened up from our gameplan or a kingdom that has been sitting back using their pool and collecting GC. Who would you pick? Surely you, being such a brave man, would go for BB. Me, being a smart man, goes for AMA.

Now that I've reiterated this 7 different times in 7 different ways, is this so hard to understand? My job in Havoc is to advise the best options. AMA is the best option. You can call me scared or whatever, but I'm not scared of utopia. I'm not scared of losing because it's just a game and we do it all over again in 2 months. My job is to put us in the best possible position to win. Fair enough?

October, you have to look at the totality of the situation. Surely it isn't ideal for BB to extend since their advantage is the fact that we just fought someone else and are depleted. But you also don't want us to farm AMA so you have to deal a little bit to secure the fight with us.

Godly, I think you are underestimating one of the kingdoms involved here. They did just beat you or is your memory so short.

I think they're doing a pretty good job of underestimating themselves tbh. I've heard it from now 5 different people in their kd that they will take the hits for 48 hrs and not make it an active hostile so you guys can hit us. I think it's a bluff, but we'll see.

Can we lose? Of course. But I would take our chances vs AMA instead of BB any day with the current layouts.

Godly, ur gonna war AMA whole age just to avoid warring BB?

Drug, we will fight the best target always unless there is an attractive CF deal that will give us time to fight the kd of your choosing. Hopefully everyone here can respect that and stay out of our conflicts. I know that's asking a lot this round lol :)

OK, Godly. I just was wondering abt our warwin crown chances ;)

lol nice

So i guess Godly u mean your are giving us the button? Cause otherwise we can just exchange some hits and it can always happen that BB do not agree that is active hostile and just serve you the notice. Or maybe your thread here in forums is a precaution "We started a forum thread! BB are not allowed to notice us!"

You can't dodge and hide for long Godly... I'm still coming for you :)

Can BB get involved if AMA stops hitting for >12hrs as it wont be active hostile? Just saying

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Originally Posted by zee

Can BB get involved if AMA stops hitting for >12hrs as it wont be active hostile? Just saying

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What did Havoc do last age?

this thread does more bad than good. This is like going to the police station to file a preemptive report, but you look like a little ***** doing so.

2 cow vs 1 cow scenario is a guaranteed win especially with the nice pump

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Originally Posted by Godly

Dodge? Like when BB dodged us by having you guys notice us?

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AMA's notice on you was entirely on their own agenda. Stop making up bedtime stories.

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Originally Posted by Godly

October, on the subject of fear, you guys won't extend a CF with us because you want to fight us when we're down. If you really want to fight us, give us the full CF and we'll do this 1v1 the right way. I am not scared of BB. I am scared of fighting any kingdom with tons of GC stocked while we just got out of a grueling war. I mean I'm just telling it how it is tbh.

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You have 22 races with ToG. That aside, in order to extend, both parties need to agree on terms. Since you think our demands are not good and we don't like yours, we are both comfortable not extending.
Whether you re-wave AMA or not, you'll still end up not being as prepared as you want to be.

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Originally Posted by zee

Can BB get involved if AMA stops hitting for >12hrs as it wont be active hostile? Just saying

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Yes they can, Havoc is Abs and Abs decided upon that rule. Pretty much everyone agreed that it was a retarded rule and that Abs leaders was insane when they claimed it but I'm guessing AMA will make sure to pay Havoc back for the ****play Havoc and Sanct did to AMA last age.

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Originally Posted by Godly

How are we running away from anyone? We are CFed with BB right now. AMA is our only open target. Let's say for example BB does notice us, yes, AMA is the better target. I'm not scared of BB but why would I take the harder target? I don't understand why anyone is making this argument?

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Yes but you or BB can give notice from what I've heard and by applying the same logic Abs applied last age when Havoc and Sanct 2v1'ed AMA if BB notices you you're dodging.

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Originally Posted by Godly

Now, in AMA's shoes, they are out right saying that if we wave them, they won't make hits for 48 hrs. THAT is scared.

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No they would obviously hit the entire time during those 48h, and then when BB's notice runs out BB will wave you. If I was AMA I would keep trading hits with you until you press button with BB then wave into war to recoup acres lost. Godly you need to remember that after last age AMA has about a hundred reasons to ****play Havoc/Sanct/Abs and not even one to play nice unless it benefits them.

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Originally Posted by Godly

October, on the subject of fear, you guys won't extend a CF with us because you want to fight us when we're down. If you really want to fight us, give us the full CF and we'll do this 1v1 the right way. I am not scared of BB. I am scared of fighting any kingdom with tons of GC stocked while we just got out of a grueling war. I mean I'm just telling it how it is tbh.

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They won't extend with you because obviously you'd be a better target now than if they let you prepare, same reason you want to go after AMA...

Godly says "I want to fight AMA cause we are in a better position against them. It is logical to go after a kd that is less prepared"
Godly says "If BB extends our CF we can prepare and war them".
I paraphrase but my question is, why would BB extend the CF and don't go after you now, for the same reasons you use to go after AMA?

Don't know why ppl spend time to argue with Godly. He is not part from Havoc leadership.
AMA offered Havoc CF and they can pick for how long duration want. Offer was rejected. Look silly to me when we all know BB is going to notice Havoc. Ever if we war again they wont be in better position vs BB after war from now.
Its shame how Zauper and rest from Havoc don't take me serious and cant make correct decision.

nvm

Actually I just wanted predictions.

What if Elit leaves eowcf early and waves some small kingdom in the top 20, will Havoc wave him making it 2vs1? and by doing so entitles Elit's friends to step in?
And once BB notice Havoc, even if they run, BB can still hit them once notice expires, even into active hostile/war?

Interesting :)

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Originally Posted by baka

Last I heard it was BB v Havoc Round 1. You're obviously out of the loop after disappearing once again for a while.

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Isn't it funny that it seems like people knew that since even before the thread was made? Would that mean BB will more likely hostile Havoc regardless if Havoc hostiles AMA?

What happens if they do...will we finally see anti-ABS flags fly? Or will BB just be there to power play and prove no difference between normal KDs and ABS KDs?

DonJuan. Havoc knew that BB is coming for them after AMA. That's nothing new to the community but you I guess. It would be exactly the same if it was Rage and Havoc against BB/AMA. So please stop antagonizing AMA and BB. For everyone involved in the diplo it was clear what will happen this age and who wars who. Godly is right that Havoc would go for the best option they have, but that doesn't mean that all other kds will just do what's best for Havoc. I just don't see why BB would extend the CF even more (i think they extended it once so far this age), just because Havoc prefer to war AMA again. If I was BB I'd just ask for a free land and maybe i would consider it. As for all implications of double play of aabs against Havoc. I never saw you defend AMA last age when they were doubled, but the contrary. Also if we have the same situation AMA would play the part of Sanctuary, Havoc will be AMA from last age and BB would be Havoc = that ended into a war between AMA and Havoc which now would be BB vs Havoc. :)

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Originally Posted by Soul_Hunter

DonJuan. Havoc knew that BB is coming for them after AMA. That's nothing new to the community but you I guess. It would be exactly the same if it was Rage and Havoc against BB/AMA. So please stop antagonizing AMA and BB. For everyone involved in the diplo it was clear what will happen this age and who wars who. Godly is right that Havoc would go for the best option they have, but that doesn't mean that all other kds will just do what's best for Havoc. I just don't see why BB would extend the CF even more (i think they extended it once so far this age), just because Havoc prefer to war AMA again. If I was BB I'd just ask for a free land and maybe i would consider it. As for all implications of double play of aabs against Havoc. I never saw you defend AMA last age when they were doubled, but the contrary. Also if we have the same situation AMA would play the part of Sanctuary, Havoc will be AMA from last age and BB would be Havoc = that ended into a war between AMA and Havoc which now would be BB vs Havoc. :)

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+1

You got me...I am trollolololing at all of you and Godly is just making me laugh.

But it's true I do not know anything about what goes on the top 5/10/20/50/100...in fact what I know is what I read here in the forums because all of you douches act even more douchey on IRC and that irritates me. So I begin to entertain myself by poking and diving into what people say to my questions.

I used to play during a time when there was no CF deals except with your aggressors and its remarkable to me that people argue and troll harder than I do over verbal pacts that dictates your gaming experience.

If you ask me I'm just waiting for the alliance war to begin so I can join a side and have my fun...at least that's what used to happen in 2v1s :-/

Soul_hunter, no offense but from the few postings you've made here it's pretty obvious that you don't have a firm grasp on how top kd CFs work in utopia. I'll try to explain one more time for you benefit.

We don't need BB to extend anything. Their notice that they will certainly do ends once we're hostile with AMA. If AMA chooses not to enter a hostile with us (by not hitting back), BB still has to wait the full notice period before they can strike us. There is also a reset clause in our agreement with BB. Every time you REENTER hostile with us by striking back, their notice is reset and they have to renotice.

What does this mean for you? I'll break down your options so we're all clear here:
If you want to dodge, you have to wait 48 hrs from when we give you button to stop making hits before BB can come save you. Once if you start hitting, BB has to re-notice. If you, for example, retal us for 36 hrs and then stop hitting, BB's notice resets after 12 hrs after you last hit, so you've actually costed yourself 12 extra hours since they will have to wait 12 hrs then renotice for a full 48 hrs for 60 hours total.

Your other option to dodge is you'll need to wave another kingdom *in your war range* and give them a button to be in an active hostile with another kd and hope they don't just not hit you for 12 hrs because then we'll just strike you. And believe me any kingdom you wave will get a message from me to not hit you back in exchange for some future considerations.

Your ass is literally mine, so I don't need to call dibs. I suggest you guys fully prepare for a conflict. The only person now who can end round 2 is flogger with some kind of huge CF deal.

Once again, this thread was meant to take predictions, not to claim any "dibs" or review utopia contracts. We don't need to do any of that because Elit is fully aware of all of this. See you guys in a couple days!

sn0re.

I am on a vacation in Croatia :D, so I don't really care dear Godly.

Wow you guys make simple things so difficult or this is some stupid PR ****. To make it real simple for you

1) Any kingdom is allowed to pursue its own self interest and this is what it entails
2)If you want to wave someone who you think is an easier fight than some other kd and you don't have a cf, you can
3) some other kingdom wants to fight you? Who the **** cares you don't need to accomodate them..they wanna wave you and you want another kd, too ****ign bad for the kd who wants to wave you if you have a notice with them and can wave someone else first?
4) Accusing people of running is the dumbest thing ever, After all these years of playing I have seen every single kingdom pick whoever they want to fight based on their self interest...its not running
-its only running when you wave some small weak sauce kingdom to dodge a strong one, AMA is not a weak sauce kd.

As for specific things go
1) Looks like havoc wd to save their cow but managed to hit elits down, they feel they have a better chance in war with 1 true cow vs 3 small 11k provs than then the previous match up of 1 big cow 2 little in ama vs 1 big/1little in havoc, them wanting to war again to try to win is reasonable....who says one kd gets to decide the fight is over after 1 war, if the other kd wants to wave again and there is no cf they can
2) Ama can obviously do things to make sure bb fights havoc instead like waving another target or retal warring and not going to war or whatever, wouldnt even be surprised to see ama send ingame cf so bb waves

The one thing thats kinda funny to me is people claimed to not say **** for PR reasons but actually meant it. I remember talking to flogger ages back with him saying he doesnt vulture people and doesnt want to be vultured himself as its his biggest pet peave in this game. I replied yea thats a bunch of PR ****, you will obviously vulture someone when it benefits you. Nice to see it was a pr stunt after all. I dont really care who wins as i dont play so GL to both.

Lastly why is baka saying stuff like "im coming for havoc." Baka is damn bad and its been proven already by his long history of farming out in the top and on the ghetto level.'if it was just baka leading havoc would be thrilled to fight him, unfortunately for them its flogger they need to deal with.

The don has spoken. I am not worthy.

Sure... when I explain it in 8* different ways, I get trolled by noobs. When Don Proteus explains it, it all makes sense. Wtf...


*8 different ways:
1) I'm not sure how this is a BB dodge. I've been on record saying I'll wave AMA over and over all round win lose or draw.

2) I don't have to CF anyone. You're thinking of another game or something.

3) Why would there be a 2 on 1? Are you saying that you won't fight us 1v1? We are forced to accept a CF otherwise there will be a GB? Is this the state of utopia? :P

4) We are entitled to pursue the best possible conflict for us. Right now, our best possible conflict is AMA. If we get an extension with BB, we might be willing to fight them. I don't know how this is difficult to understand. This isn't a boxing match where fights are preassigned. If we don't have a CF with you, you are a target. If you want a CF with us, you gotta deal. It's just that simple.

5) How are we running away from anyone? We are CFed with BB right now. AMA is our only open target. Let's say for example BB does notice us, yes, AMA is the better target. I'm not scared of BB but why would I take the harder target? I don't understand why anyone is making this argument?

6) If you really want to fight us, give us the full CF and we'll do this 1v1 the right way. I am not scared of BB. I am scared of fighting any kingdom with tons of GC stocked while we just got out of a grueling war. I mean I'm just telling it how it is tbh.

7) We now face a decision to make between AMA and BB. We can either go after the kd that we just fought with who is softened up from our gameplan or a kingdom that has been sitting back using their pool and collecting GC. Who would you pick? Surely you, being such a brave man, would go for BB. Me, being a smart man, goes for AMA. Now that I've reiterated this 7 different times in 7 different ways, is this so hard to understand? My job in Havoc is to advise the best options. AMA is the best option. You can call me scared or whatever, but I'm not scared of utopia. I'm not scared of losing because it's just a game and we do it all over again in 2 months. My job is to put us in the best possible position to win. Fair enough?

8) We don't need BB to extend anything. Their notice that they will certainly do ends once we're hostile with AMA. If AMA chooses not to enter a hostile with us (by not hitting back), BB still has to wait the full notice period before they can strike us. There is also a reset clause in our agreement with BB. Every time you REENTER hostile with us by striking back, their notice is reset and they have to renotice.

it's not something you can teach

@ Soul_Hunter
having blast ???? :D

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Originally Posted by KuhaN

sn0re.

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it feels so weird and unnatural agreeing with kuhan. and i agree with him more than once on the same page!

Lol. This thread is amazing.
10/10

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Originally Posted by zee

Can BB get involved if AMA stops hitting for >12hrs as it wont be active hostile? Just saying

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This is accurate. AMA can even send an ingame CF during those 12 hours to make it more legit. Sorry Godly, but there is no dodging Beastblood.

Edit: I stand corrected. Didn't notice the reset clause Godly posted. Looks like Havoc has outs. If AMA doesn't fight, I would try Dealbreakers whether you have a deal with them or not. Anything goes against those ****players.

Lol I'm surprised godly even responded to all the comments in this thread... pretty noble effort

The comments in this thread are stupid. This is why i always talked **** and dont respect other people, they dont say anything smart. Just because someone wants to fight you doesnt mean you have to fight them, if you think otherwise you are just dumb, really ****ing dumb. This is a strategy game if you think you can beat another kd and get WW bonus and then be in better shape to fight the competition then do it.

The age bb won a crown and beat multiple kingdoms there were Weeks apart each fight. No one is obligated to chain fight b2b2b.

When people misunderstand is sitting oow pumping and collecting gc while someone wars doesnt mean you are playing better, any noob can pump and grow in vacuum. Everyone understand a kd using pool oow will be the CLEAR favorite over anyone they vulture 48h after end of eow cf, why would the kingdom that just got out of war want to take odds like that in a STRATEGY game unless they are ****ng bad and their strategy sucks.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

The comments in this thread are stupid. This is why i always talked **** and dont respect other people, they dont say anything smart. Just because someone wants to fight you doesnt mean you have to fight them, if you think otherwise you are just dumb, really ****ing dumb. This is a strategy game if you think you can beat another kd and get WW bonus and then be in better shape to fight the competition then do it.

The age bb won a crown and beat multiple kingdoms there were Weeks apart each fight. No one is obligated to chain fight b2b2b.

When people misunderstand is sitting oow pumping and collecting gc while someone wars doesnt mean you are playing better, any noob can pump and grow in vacuum. Everyone understand a kd using pool oow will be the CLEAR favorite over anyone they vulture 48h after end of eow cf, why would the kingdom that just got out of war want to take odds like that in a STRATEGY game unless they are ****ng bad and their strategy sucks.

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By your logic, AMA should just give some small ghetto the button and that's a hostile and legitimate.

Just farm them again Elit

Wow proteus speaks **** that everyone already knows. I dont see the debate here. Apparently havoc want ama, apparently bb want havoc. Both parties gonna play their diplo accordingly to make their goals happen. Its simple, stop getting your knickers in a twist.

Godly sucks