The ultimate strategy thread

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Originally Posted by madi

i have really appreciated this thread by its numbers..... but its really not viable facing a top warring kd... u have already stated that every strat has a counter.. and i agree 100%. your setups and ideas have been very number limited based not execution... your numbers u stat dont mean anything if a x factor is being thrown into it...

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It seems like most top warring kds just have a lot of thief mages that are larger than the rest of their kingdom and they war people who can't break them. That's why I like fighting at the top of the land charts, because there are more considerations. If you just stay small and make sure that you're winning the war before it even starts because you have 10 unbreakable thief mages, what fun is that?

From a war kingdom standpoint, the setup I suggested earlier this thread would take care of all attackers within 36 hours and then our thief mages would beat anyone else's.

i disagree.. thats a optimal situation but not true...

This happens every war... For example, I'm at 1000 acres, my army is out for 10h and I have 100 acre incoming, but then I see my province reduced to ~300 acres.
What's the best war to deal with this in the 10h period that my army is still away for, other than just seeing my troops desert every tick? Can being superactive help when being chained - even if the kd is ghetto and can't aid you? Cheers!

and i dont agree about fighting at top of land charts... i think a lot of top land chart kd's if got in a war with warring kd they'd be in for a shock... if within 1 mill net or so, depending on time of age..

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Originally Posted by Snp

The NW difference/range woudn`t matter ?The penalty is just a myth ?

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FB, LS and FG ignore a large chunk of the nw penalties by design for just these situations.

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Originally Posted by madi

and i dont agree about fighting at top of land charts... i think a lot of top land chart kd's if got in a war with warring kd they'd be in for a shock... if within 1 mill net or so, depending on time of age..

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I call BS and gonna prove it this age

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Originally Posted by Anri

I call BS and gonna prove it this age

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I agree with you Anri... Now, some of the top War KD's, when moving to making a run at the top can make a whoring KD look foolish (just look at what's going on with Jerks and HoH), however...most of the top KD's are built upon coordination and strategy, so they know how to war (as a lot of them were recruited from warring KD's at some point too)...

HoH isn't what they used to be without Kygal :(

We gave Jerks a better fight than HoH seems to be giving them.

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Originally Posted by Palem

HoH isn't what they used to be without Kygal :(

We gave Jerks a better fight than HoH seems to be giving them.

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Aaaarrrrrrggghhhhhh. Soooo Hard not to comment.

There is just no way to say it without it feeling like a poke in both your eyes buddy.

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Originally Posted by Anri

I call BS and gonna prove it this age

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How you gonna prove? Aiming for ww crown?

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Originally Posted by neanderthal

Aaaarrrrrrggghhhhhh. Soooo Hard not to comment.

There is just no way to say it without it feeling like a poke in both your eyes buddy.

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I'm a big boy. I did say "seems to be giving them", Jerks might be exploring more than they did against us and blowing up the land/nw gap quicker than they did against us. I do know we didn't start bleeding acres until about 40 hours in.

No doubt to me that HRS gave Jerks a better fight...I was never asked one time why HRS was farming out, and have been asked at least half a dozen in this case

Hey!

We have a problem with rune shortage this age. Is it viable to steal outside of war when in war?

Best regards

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Originally Posted by thamen

Hey!

We have a problem with rune shortage this age. Is it viable to steal outside of war when in war?

Best regards

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I think that is morally wrong and is "Cheating". I'd steal from them in war tbh... That is just my oppinion though.

Flogger : To deep chain or not?

Bribe thieves, always sometimes or never?

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Originally Posted by WhenWeCollide

I agree with you Anri... Now, some of the top War KD's, when moving to making a run at the top can make a whoring KD look foolish (just look at what's going on with Jerks and HoH), however...most of the top KD's are built upon coordination and strategy, so they know how to war (as a lot of them were recruited from warring KD's at some point too)...

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Very good point I've been unable to put to words. I have a lot of respect for you madi, but I think if you compare your forum diplo with silly rabbit it'd do you some good. And no, I'm not expecting great war kingdoms to be great diplomats. LoL

flogger, for a human mystic cow type of thing this age, would you run static homes as part of a war/hostile build to compensate for the 10% pop bonus?

awesome thread btw

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Originally Posted by flogger

It seems like most top warring kds just have a lot of thief mages that are larger than the rest of their kingdom and they war people who can't break them. That's why I like fighting at the top of the land charts, because there are more considerations. If you just stay small and make sure that you're winning the war before it even starts because you have 10 unbreakable thief mages, what fun is that?

From a war kingdom standpoint, the setup I suggested earlier this thread would take care of all attackers within 36 hours and then our thief mages would beat anyone else's.

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Originally Posted by madi

i disagree.. thats a optimal situation but not true...

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I agree with Flogger. Smaller warring kingdoms message around for wars they know they will win. Small war kingdoms most of the time DO NOT wave kingdoms but will send a message so that they do not grow big off of the acres they have taken. Most of the time as well kingdoms do not msg kingdoms whom are bigger.

I mean if you look at the top of the warring charts now

This age :

Rank 1 beat a kingdomm 22 vs 20 (Average Opponent size 102%)
Rank 2 beat a kingdom 25 vs 24 (Average Opponent Relative Size 99%)
Rank 3 beat a kingdom 22 vs 20 (Average Opponent Relative Size 94%)
Rank 4 beat a kingdom 25 vs 25 (Average Opponent Relative Size 92%) (Going for growth?)

Quote me eoa and I bet we will not find a kingdom top of honor/WW chart with >100% Average Opponent size and monitoring each war the winner will have 1 or 2 more players than the losing kingdom...

In top growth IMO wars are fought out much tougher as they are even (25vs25) and will set alarms during war and not nes be just in/out.

Most war kingdoms like flogger has pointed out run heavy TMs like Free. Some will be UB and by 2nd wave they'll all most likely be UB due to ops. I think Free rank 10 Faeries last age and dominated war kingdoms. If they were to do that against a growth kingdom it would not work as for one there WPA would be crap and 2 they'd be over run and this is why you dont see heavy heavy TM growing kds this age

More than likely the warring kingdom would not war growth kingdom due to being on equal acres and not have a 90%+ chance of winning :P Warring kingdoms moan so much about being bottom fed due to the fact they grow their TMs much higher than their cores.

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Originally Posted by tetley

flogger, for a human mystic cow type of thing this age, would you run static homes as part of a war/hostile build to compensate for the 10% pop bonus?

awesome thread btw

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Depends on whether the cow is needed to attack or whether its just needed to produce economy/slay drakes/produce soldiers. From my rough math if you're running 5 WPA and 4 TPA, you don't have much room for military, so Homes actually may be better than TGs/Forts.

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Originally Posted by boz

Bribe thieves, always sometimes or never?

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Should be always, I usually forget

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Originally Posted by American Badass

I think that is morally wrong and is "Cheating". I'd steal from them in war tbh... That is just my oppinion though.

Flogger : To deep chain or not?

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I wouldn't rob runes OOW. And I usually deep chain more than most. But my goals are usually land related, best way to gain alot of land is preventing them from hitting you.

got any good tips on how i should be running a halfer/merch in a ghetto without back up, yet. Should have 2 provs joining me at +1200 acre in the upcoming days. Full leets or divide on some ospecs for lower nw?

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Originally Posted by flogger

Depends on whether the cow is needed to attack or whether its just needed to produce economy/slay drakes/produce soldiers. From my rough math if you're running 5 WPA and 4 TPA, you don't have much room for military, so Homes actually may be better than TGs/Forts.

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In this case I would say the bank needs to attack and is not unbreakable.
Bit early in the age for a cow to have 5 WPA don't you think? That's like... nearly 9 days of pumping wiz on 60% guilds! :O
just now I realize I said "bonus" instead of "penalty" in my first post, but you knew what I meant anyways.

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Originally Posted by American Badass

I agree with Flogger. Smaller warring kingdoms message around for wars they know they will win. Small war kingdoms most of the time DO NOT wave kingdoms but will send a message so that they do not grow big off of the acres they have taken. Most of the time as well kingdoms do not msg kingdoms whom are bigger.

I mean if you look at the top of the warring charts now

This age :

Rank 1 beat a kingdomm 22 vs 20 (Average Opponent size 102%)
Rank 2 beat a kingdom 25 vs 24 (Average Opponent Relative Size 99%)
Rank 3 beat a kingdom 22 vs 20 (Average Opponent Relative Size 94%)
Rank 4 beat a kingdom 25 vs 25 (Average Opponent Relative Size 92%) (Going for growth?)

Quote me eoa and I bet we will not find a kingdom top of honor/WW chart with >100% Average Opponent size and monitoring each war the winner will have 1 or 2 more players than the losing kingdom...

In top growth IMO wars are fought out much tougher as they are even (25vs25) and will set alarms during war and not nes be just in/out.

Most war kingdoms like flogger has pointed out run heavy TMs like Free. Some will be UB and by 2nd wave they'll all most likely be UB due to ops. I think Free rank 10 Faeries last age and dominated war kingdoms. If they were to do that against a growth kingdom it would not work as for one there WPA would be crap and 2 they'd be over run and this is why you dont see heavy heavy TM growing kds this age

More than likely the warring kingdom would not war growth kingdom due to being on equal acres and not have a 90%+ chance of winning :P Warring kingdoms moan so much about being bottom fed due to the fact they grow their TMs much higher than their cores.

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I want to remark about warring kingdoms only fighting smaller kingdoms.
It's true some kingdoms like to bully smaller kingdoms to get a war.
But many top warring kingdoms in fact need to resort to fighting bigger nw kingdoms just to find a war...
After getting 2 or 3 ww's, many kingdoms will just refuse to fight you. So you need to resort to finding kingdoms with either a player advantage or a nw advantage.
On top of that, the reason top warring kingdoms frequently have smaller average networth opponents is because they are forced to make the first hostile wave and give away the button.

Simply because kingdoms will not fight us without having the button.
We are forced to make a full hostile wave which usually results in the enemy kingdom starting off with a lower networth than us, even though they were bigger when war was agreed upon.
So in WW charts it might show on average we face smaller kingdoms, in fact we usually fight kingdoms around 5%+ bigger.

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Originally Posted by gergnub

got any good tips on how i should be running a halfer/merch in a ghetto without back up, yet. Should have 2 provs joining me at +1200 acre in the upcoming days. Full leets or divide on some ospecs for lower nw?

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run enough thieves to cast blanket riots on anyone who hits you.

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Originally Posted by fawk

I want to remark about warring kingdoms only fighting smaller kingdoms.
It's true some kingdoms like to bully smaller kingdoms to get a war.
But many top warring kingdoms in fact need to resort to fighting bigger nw kingdoms just to find a war...
After getting 2 or 3 ww's, many kingdoms will just refuse to fight you. So you need to resort to finding kingdoms with either a player advantage or a nw advantage.
On top of that, the reason top warring kingdoms frequently have smaller average networth opponents is because they are forced to make the first hostile wave and give away the button.

Simply because kingdoms will not fight us without having the button.
We are forced to make a full hostile wave which usually results in the enemy kingdom starting off with a lower networth than us, even though they were bigger when war was agreed upon.
So in WW charts it might show on average we face smaller kingdoms, in fact we usually fight kingdoms around 5%+ bigger.

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Overall KD size doesn't matter, its mainly the size of the thief mages relative to the enemy attackers. I doubt strong war kingdoms routinely war kingdoms that have multiple people who can hit their thief mages while not having people to hit their targets' thief mages. Large attackers who can't break your TM's would be a good target for a war kd.

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Originally Posted by American Badass

I agree with Flogger. Smaller warring kingdoms message around for wars they know they will win. Small war kingdoms most of the time DO NOT wave kingdoms but will send a message so that they do not grow big off of the acres they have taken. Most of the time as well kingdoms do not msg kingdoms whom are bigger.

I mean if you look at the top of the warring charts now

This age :

Rank 1 beat a kingdomm 22 vs 20 (Average Opponent size 102%)
Rank 2 beat a kingdom 25 vs 24 (Average Opponent Relative Size 99%)
Rank 3 beat a kingdom 22 vs 20 (Average Opponent Relative Size 94%)
Rank 4 beat a kingdom 25 vs 25 (Average Opponent Relative Size 92%) (Going for growth?)

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2 weeks into age, war charts dont mean anything. Come late age, other kd's only war you if you give them every advantage.

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Originally Posted by American Badass

Quote me eoa and I bet we will not find a kingdom top of honor/WW chart with >100% Average Opponent size and monitoring each war the winner will have 1 or 2 more players than the losing kingdom...

In top growth IMO wars are fought out much tougher as they are even (25vs25) and will set alarms during war and not nes be just in/out.

More than likely the warring kingdom would not war growth kingdom due to being on equal acres and not have a 90%+ chance of winning :P Warring kingdoms moan so much about being bottom fed due to the fact they grow their TMs much higher than their cores.

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Um, how about fighting 2 players down and giving them size advantage + button? Thats what we have to deal with because noone wanted to war us late age, even those who agree to war drag a week long hostile with hostile meter in 190s then chickening out. Last age:
1. Won 23 vs 25 (~100% nw kd, finished 5/6 ww)
2. Won 23 vs 23 (~105% nw kd, finished 6/7 ww)
3. Won 23 vs 25 (~130% nw kd, fnished 3/6 ww)
4. Won 23 vs 25 (~97% nw, finished 5/6 ww)

Don't give me crap like we have to fight tougher 25 vs 25 wars. How many of you guys are willing to fight 23 vs 25? I don't know what you're getting on with alarms... most war kds alarms is mandatory... and expect to be contacted 24/7 if anything comes up.

Edit: yes they had guys who could and did chain our tms

Just ignore him Duke_

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Originally Posted by flogger

run enough thieves to cast blanket riots on anyone who hits you.

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well that was boring advice. I had more hopes on you!

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Originally Posted by Duke_

2 weeks into age, war charts dont mean anything. Come late age, other kd's only war you if you give them every advantage.



Um, how about fighting 2 players down and giving them size advantage + button? Thats what we have to deal with because noone wanted to war us late age, even those who agree to war drag a week long hostile with hostile meter in 190s then chickening out. Last age:
1. Won 23 vs 25 (~100% nw kd, finished 5/6 ww)
2. Won 23 vs 23 (~105% nw kd, finished 6/7 ww)
3. Won 23 vs 25 (~130% nw kd, fnished 3/6 ww)
4. Won 23 vs 25 (~97% nw, finished 5/6 ww)

Don't give me crap like we have to fight tougher 25 vs 25 wars. How many of you guys are willing to fight 23 vs 25? I don't know what you're getting on with alarms... most war kds alarms is mandatory... and expect to be contacted 24/7 if anything comes up.

Edit: yes they had guys who could and did chain our tms

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I won 22vs25 whilst being 10% less networth.

True story.

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Originally Posted by American Badass

I won 22vs25 whilst being 10% less networth.

True story.

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cool story bro,tell us more

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Originally Posted by Duke_

2 weeks into age, war charts dont mean anything. Come late age, other kd's only war you if you give them every advantage.



Um, how about fighting 2 players down and giving them size advantage + button? Thats what we have to deal with because noone wanted to war us late age, even those who agree to war drag a week long hostile with hostile meter in 190s then chickening out. Last age:
1. Won 23 vs 25 (~100% nw kd, finished 5/6 ww)
2. Won 23 vs 23 (~105% nw kd, finished 6/7 ww)
3. Won 23 vs 25 (~130% nw kd, fnished 3/6 ww)
4. Won 23 vs 25 (~97% nw, finished 5/6 ww)

Don't give me crap like we have to fight tougher 25 vs 25 wars. How many of you guys are willing to fight 23 vs 25? I don't know what you're getting on with alarms... most war kds alarms is mandatory... and expect to be contacted 24/7 if anything comes up.

Edit: yes they had guys who could and did chain our tms

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Which kd are you in?

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Originally Posted by Snp

cool story bro,tell us more

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Simians vs Monument I believe. Yes it was impressive.
- gergnub, I truly sympathize with your dilemma: guys needing to catch up while losing precious capability vs tops. My only advice to you is to dictate aid and order it's use. This is how I learned some valuable lessons. Your antics simply required too much of my attention for my lax intentions this age.
My Question: prelude to war we are evenly matched with a 7 on 7 provinces in the 100k nw range. Our opponent has 3 elves on their side in this range, we have one. My instincts tell me trying to massacre down 3 elves will have detrimental consequences. The enemy has a core of 8 halfers above this nw range. It appears we plan to give them the button. - How should we approach this lower tier matchup? Thx

<3 StratOcastle, its all good buddy!

I support flogger, i've learned a lot playing in BB the last two ages.

Cool thread.

If you were chaining a single province with hits in war, how far would you have to drop their acres to make their armies desert by a significant amount?

Pulling an amount out of the air - an 800 acre Orc, for example

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Originally Posted by s0830887

If you were chaining a single province with hits in war, how far would you have to drop their acres to make their armies desert by a significant amount?

Pulling an amount out of the air - an 800 acre Orc, for example

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2/3rds-3/4ths of their land to wipe out most all their defense.

What kingdom would you say currently has the best build as we get into the middle of the age. What makes their build good for the middle, well they be able to compete late age?

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Originally Posted by goodz

What kingdom would you say currently has the best build as we get into the middle of the age. What makes their build good for the middle, well they be able to compete late age?

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I'd take fratzia with their sages, can go A/T and wreck everyone else's scienceless core. Doubt they push for #1 as it would require more whoring than I imagine they will want to go.

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Originally Posted by flogger

I'd take fratzia with their sages, can go A/T and wreck everyone else's scienceless core. Doubt they push for #1 as it would require more whoring than I imagine they will want to go.

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do you think sage is strong enough late age? It certainly seems the strongest early age.