Sad, i hoped its you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
GL find war.
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Sad, i hoped its you :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
GL find war.
I never thought there was a thing like irc endurance, but I got wore out keeping up with #tactics comedy. Bishop had a funny nic and at first I didn't know why; but then the chat went nuts with 'cool off' and 'lame' and 'soft utopia'.
To base strategy on the player-base killing tactics of BoB last age was in bad taste. Besides, I saw octo already sited this before age 60 ever started. It's also obvious to anyone who travels. No worries. The kingdoms in question can brush off the dirt and get back easily.
I had problem with #tactics last night too. All explode just before im go sleep and its made me stay 1-2h late before go sleep.
Hope next time drama can start in better local time for me.
Just tag afk and go to bed.
The funny part was that cr/havoc came up with strategy and RBLfake rage copied it blindly, kinda sad when you don't come up with your own strategies, copy a lame one, and get owned. Cr at least I can understand a little bit if they did it while they were in war and was a choice btwn securing cows/getting owned but RBL has no excuse. There are many ways to secure cows oop without having to reset your provinces, in all of the ages where we have seen cowing in its pure form oop (without friendly gbp abuse) we have not seen crap like this. Drixx just retire and pay someone good to lead kd, you got all that cash money from teaching online classes supposedly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
I got that boom boom pow, these chickens jackin' my style.
Man, I miss all the good tricks.
But, you are not in war... IF you had been in war i think your voodoo theme needs something like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Elit
http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/...wliuqfggif.gif
LoL, you sound like a gigolo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
It would encourage others if the old guard embraced past challenge rather than the merits of being a gigilo. But it must've been fun.
I heard you have a doctorate and are making cash money too. So why haven't you paid Kuhan his $100 yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
funny part was you still need to pay kuhan 100 us dollars. get on it.dont make bets your toilet cleaning job cant support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
No personal attacks
Thanks for link. Im going to use it for banner next time we war ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Anri
Resetting a prov is not abusing a bug and has already been coded around by the devs (making aid a hostile action so cant reset, having a 72 hr protection on reset provs). At best case, you could claim it's a mechanic abuse, but then again, just me playing utopia is a mechanic abuse because I will find every possible way to get an advantage over the worse players. A "mechanic abuse" is what utopia is all about. Devs make changes, we figure out how to best play around it.
Futhermore, Bishop hand picked the key provs in our war and just released their def to 0 intentionally instead of giving them a fighting chance by releasing some offense, some defense -- essentially just to attempt to farm them out to pyro. I wonder how much crying cJ did to get that specific result. Had he released say half offense half defense, they would have still been able to 4x pyro and only 2x in return. Obviously this wasn't enough for pyro to have a chance.
This is a clear overstepping of boundaries by a dev. He basically entrapped us by making the coding change and not informing utopia, and then instead of just laughing at us that we fell for it, he also is attempting to chart shape by giving pyro the best possible chance of winning.
Every kingdom in utopia abuses mechanics. Do you inform Bishop when race X is OP? No. You pick it and own the server. Is it against the spirit of the rules of the game when you get GBP to feed a cow to be UB by 100% of utopia? Based on the very loose definition of spirit of the rules (i.e. whatever Bishop feels like today), YES. The INTENT of GBP is to protect beaten down provs, not exploit it purposely to grow cows. Yet, it's been done. It's never been actioned. And if anyone complained about it, Bishop would say "oh well." I could list off another 100 ways we as a community "abuse the mechanics" in utopia and will never get actioned for it. 2 rounds ago we had a crown winner based on abusing of war mechanics. 3 rounds ago we had a crown winner based on abusing of war mechanics.
They make the changes, we break them. Actioning this is a completely new, terrible precedence. Just because it's happened to a kingdom that is not yours doesn't mean it won't happen to your kingdom in the future. You may think that you have come up with a really slick strategy, but instead of being rewarded, it might not really be a valid strategy according to the utopia police.
Last round, a kingdom complained of people resetting their chained provs in war to have them come back after 24 hrs of protection in great shape. Bishop's response? Get people from outside to raze them.
Wake up, people. This isn't about abusing bugs. This is about Bishop's power trip. He's pissed off that he made a stupid change and people figured out how to break it. If you just want the noobs to play utopia who can't figure this stuff out, just say so. But last I counted, utopia is down to 20 kingdoms with 25 players. You may blame advertising. I blame you.
Current list of punishment for using a tactic that is not a bug abuse and therefore not cheating:
- The entire tactic foiled by a coding change not mentioned in the changelist: our provs arent in functioning state for 5 real days (24 hrs in initial protection + 24 hrs waiting since aid is now a hostile action + 72 hrs for protection on new provs). This should be punishment enough.
- All leaders who reset suspended for 72 hrs
- More military released than what was aided (military paid for with real cash).
- Still negative TB on the provs that got aided
- Total of 7 provs taken out of a war for a measly 8k soldiers
- Loss of 2 reset credits purchased with real money that weren't used how we wanted them to be used. (This should be refunded).
Godly, what you did is clear game abuse and for sure your kd need punish for it. TBH i don't think you got punished enough but its good devs/admins made step in correct direction. Let people cheat and abuse game is way for kill it.
Don't try to look for loophole in system and use it. You can use all your 25 provinces for feed with no reset.
How is it game abuse when the devs already coded the fix for it? Is this attempted game abuse? Furthermore, what strategy is not game abuse? Is game abuse for me to figure out which races/pers are the best? Is it game abuse for me to get GBP on purpose to feed a cow?
I repeat: This is a clear overstepping of boundaries by a dev. He basically entrapped us by making the coding change and not informing utopia, and then instead of just laughing at us that we fell for it, he also is attempting to chart shape by giving pyro the best possible chance of winning. How else do you explain releasing ONLY defense?
You balance mechanics. You don't action their use. This mechanic was already actively and intentionally balanced by making aiding reset your reset timer. It was further balanced by making provs that respawn in war have a 72 hour protection.
Last age show how easy is for abuse 24h protection with reset in war. Its why after BoB/Rusty war its was changed to 72h in war. This age Havoc/RBL show how easy is for abuse it not in war too. Action abuse is first step. After it Devs can look over long term solution or just keep action every time when other KDs massive abuse it again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Elit, THEY ALREADY DID. The "abuse" was fixed. We fell for it. "Ha ha we fell for it." That should be the end of it. You don't go into people's accounts and start releasing whatever military units you feel like. This is attempted chart shaping by a dev. I bet if we still beat Pyro the dude will be back and say "you didn't suffer enough." I understand that you are biased and will never agree with anything that I say, but coming from a guy who lost a crown to mechanic abuse, how do you view what Legacy/Jerks did 2 rounds ago as NOT mechanics abuse and this as mechanics abuse, when we didn't even get to abuse anything?
The long term solution is making it so aiding resets your reset timer. They already did this. Paired with the 72 hour reset in war it was more than balanced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Guess with all this QQ in forum war don't go so well. Can you post update?
About abuse or not we wont come to same opinion.
Sending aid is a clear mechanic abuse. Devs should be actioning EVERY player who sends aid. End of story.
No, thats what you seem to think its about. Abusing mechancis isn't something we support and the rules clearly call that out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
This is just a fabrication. They provs that had troops released were the ones that were aided, i didn't randomly release troops and i released whatever troops were available to chosse from. Protip: you cant release troops that are out on an attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Please report them then. We may not be able to address all your concerns but we will certainly try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Important part in bold. This isnt last round and this isn't the same scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
This is about abusing game mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Its not really possible to directly release the GC that was also aided. Apart from that punishment isn't supposed to be a 0 sum game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
War was going one way because pyro are horrible at this game and trained no thieves or dspecs and then waved out with 20 hum/wh in pure whore build. Obviously removing 30% of a kd's military and suspending 2 provs so they come oop(after waiting 96 hours) with no owner effects the war. However, Pyro stole hundreds of millions of gc from pew2 last age before our conflict and still had to cry to us about internal conflict so that we'd stop wrecking their face. Who knows what level of ineptitude they'll show here.
Bishop, if you were planning on actioning people who "abused this tactic," why did you fix it in the code?
Report everyone who abuses game mechanics? Ok. last 2 crowns before us were fake wars meant to abuse the imbalaned WW land gains bonus. Please go back and properly give the crown to AMA and whoever the other kd was.
Considering you're the only person that knows what "spirit of the rules" means, who knows what else there is to report.
I thought it would make the abuse not worth it. I was wrong and people still abused so I actioned them. Removing abuse via game mechanics is preferable to account actions generally.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Current age only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
That seems like an unfortunate solution as it also punishes all other kingdoms competing with Pyro this age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
I don't think that is quite accurate. Being the first to have unbreakable banks is certainly more valuable and worth it to have some core players underveloped. If that was not the case you wouldn't have tried this strategy, would you?Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
I don't see how letting this go wouldn't have had bad consequences for the game to be honest. Now that you know you can't reset immediately what would have been the next step? Get some players into the kingdom just to have them send their resources and then be killed off so your actual players can join?
Bishop are you kidding me? Had you told us what the change was, do you think anyone would have done it? This is entrapment, plain and simple. Do you think losing 2 provs for 5 days is worth those resources? You are chart shaping. Pyro got caught with a crappy strategy and are being rewarded DOUBLE for it.
What's frustrating Bishop is that this is a game that outside of activity is 100% mechanic dependent. If you think 1 mechanic is broken you balance it. In this instance, you or S&B already balanced it sometime last age. People tested if aid resets the reset timer and it didn't last age. The ONLY reason you would change this mechanic is to balance this exact thing. So why balance a mechanic that you implemented and then action in an absurdly severe way when people use the now balanced mechanic?
It went from a 100% war win (even with the reset balance change) to 50-50. So, yes. War don't go so well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
QFT. Why?Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
I'm sorry, but you guys are talking about your asses. You didn't for one second thing that province resetting was added so you could feed via resets and respawning resources and have only yourselves to blame.
This sort of behaviour from kingdoms that should know better is stupid, it is wasteful and it needs to stop. Either clean up your act or disband.
So you are now saying that you actively and intentionally balanced oop resetting so that it wouldn't be worth doing, didn't tell anyone that you did this, and then when people do it(in a way that you now view as balanced and intentionally made to be ok) you action by deleting almost 4 times the resources?
I'm saying that you should cop on.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
Because you found loophole in system and its need action from devs before all start use same.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
It's not a loophole elit. They already balanced it. They made a mechanic, then they balanced it, and then they said using it is abuse.
The difference between "really slick" and abuse seems obvious here it. When you're intentionally pushing the boundaries trying to get ahead you should be aware that you might push too far and end up getting burned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
That depends on when that military was trained as any resources gained after your abuse is tainted by said action, so if they had that military before your cheating happened then yes it would have been fair to let you keep it, but anything and everything trained after the abuse happened is tainted and should be removed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Why should that have been changed? it's a reasonable part of the punishment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Well if it was 7 provs that participated(either by receiving the spoils or sending them) cheated then that seems reasonable. The punishment for cheating is supposed to be draconian, it's part of the deterrence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
No it shouldn't, you cheated and as a result you were actioned, thats standard in any game. If you cheat and get banned you can't demand to have your game refunded because you can no longer play it, regardless of wether it costs $0.02 or $80.Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
We have deemed it to be an abuse of game mechanics, despite what you pretend to think.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
So you deem something that you actively balanced to be an abuse? What is the point of balancing at all if you aren't balancing it with the intention of it not being (in your minds) an abusable mechanic?
I've already answered this.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
Nah topsy. They don't action it last round when it's actually a good strategy. This round it isn't a good strategy and they action it. Makes perfect sense.