This war wasn't even intentionally breaking the rules, I was just misinformed about the definition of a fake war in /tactics.
It didn't affect the competition in the mid-tier or top-tier and it is ultimately insignificant.
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This war wasn't even intentionally breaking the rules, I was just misinformed about the definition of a fake war in /tactics.
It didn't affect the competition in the mid-tier or top-tier and it is ultimately insignificant.
I just don't understand the need to declare and make things shady. It's harder but it's cool and legit.
My other thing is that it's a free game.
And my other other thing is that whenever hard, fast rules are made someone tries to lawyer their way around it. It's some kind of weird fetish with moral ineptitude, all due respect. I find it very easy to play Utopia within the spirit of the rules and do fine accomplishing what I like.
We can look at war as a diplomatic baseline. The clue that it is indeed a diplomatic scenario is that there are mechanics and benefits that reward war status. Regardless of the devs intention, declaration is eerily similar to reality in historic evidence: Vietnam, Korea, Afganistan etc are out of declare range. This is where diplomatic status in the eyes of the world dictate what is permissible as a declarable war. Your opponents must pose an equivalent threat in order to be considered declarable. This is the basis of the spoils of war.
Its important to note the baseline element. This is the last line; the bottom of what is considered civilized resolution. The last stop above animal law. Anything above that thin line is not war. The idea of ball ammo correlates to the fingernail tearing idea that it's diplomacy in its darkest hour.
His impression of the Demon's Head could use some work.Quote:
Originally Posted by robinrk1983
I've played this game so long, I admit, that I've become thoroughly indoctrinated by the rules.
In defense of these ghettos, though, I always thought these situations were handled case by case. And from everything I have seen it doesn't seem like either one was trying to gain an unfair advantage or intentionally manipulate any rules. That said, the general reaction by the community feels harsh to me.
As far as the declining number of new players goes, I think it's more a result of these generalized and harsh reactions by the community than it is the mods specifically. Not to mention a number of other factors that are largely out of control of the devs.
TLDR; People learn when you treat them kindly, not when you chastise and chide them for their mistakes.
War in this game is simple. Hit each other and don't make shady deals. It's easy to not fake war.
Who said anything about cheating? I was only speaking of what is FAIR. Provinces hitting intra-kd without King's orders should be deleted in the game, otherwise what prevents any rage-player creating provinces with a proxy and growing for a while than starting intra-kd during war?Quote:
Originally Posted by Band of Horses
Is that what is encouraged in this game by not enforcing some common sense, but enforcing some idealistic yet useless "war purpose"? If the 2 kingdoms really wanted to war, what gives you any right to intervene in on kd chains the exact province that was creating the other kingdom internal problems? chains in wars are not forbidden...
And if it was outside of top 100, that really affects your precious rankings, so why bother? if the 49 players involved in the war are happy, and no one from the outside kingdom has any problem with that, what is the harm done?
The game representatives should provide the set-up for players to feel good playing the game, and not be a nuisance (not saying you are, btw :) )
Just hope that free speech is still allowed in here...
So in your world what is fair is that you delete those that doesnt agree with you. Yea, thats very fair bro.. lol.Quote:
Who said anything about cheating? I was only speaking of what is FAIR. Provinces hitting intra-kd without King's orders should be deleted in the game, otherwise what prevents any rage-player creating provinces with a proxy and growing for a while than starting intra-kd during war?
The chaining isnt the issue either its the dealmaking. Its not forbidden to hit intra kd either but apparently that you wanna delete but not this why?Quote:
Is that what is encouraged in this game by not enforcing some common sense, but enforcing some idealistic yet useless "war purpose"? If the 2 kingdoms really wanted to war, what gives you any right to intervene in on kd chains the exact province that was creating the other kingdom internal problems? chains in wars are not forbidden...
Yea, while you want to destroy people that doesnt comply to your own set of morale code. :)Quote:
The game representatives should provide the set-up for players to feel good playing the game, and not be a nuisance (not saying you are, btw :) )
Just hope that free speech is still allowed in here...
Well, i remember the game always enforced rules, and they are welcomed, I'm not speaking about the rules in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Just that some rules that influence the way things work intra-kd should be more important than some ideal fair competition that in the end for the case in point has no relevance, as none of the KD were looking for a fake-war or to get anything out of the war except for the war win. At least that is how i read their message... maybe to you it sounded different, but having experienced the same kind of intra-kd hostilities, even while in the middle of the war, it left us a feeling of wasting a week of war in the beginning of the age, ruining for us the rest of the age.
That influenced the science we (didn't) get, the acres we (didn't) get out of the war we were forced to surrender, and that didn't make it easier for the next war which we eventually failed... so one tiny detail, could end up ruining the age, just because you feel some rules are more important than others (that may not even be rules at the moment, but it's just common sense...).
Would you continuing in a game that seems to enforce and reward the wrong behavior?
Doubt anyone really cares, but here is the message I sent to the other monarch after asking for advice in /tactics:
"I have just found out that it is a bannable offence to go to war when the outcome is predetermined.
What I can offer is that we take out dontmindme (the intra-killer) as planned, with all the agreed terms, but then the moment dontmindme is dead it becomes a normal war, where either side can attack until the other surrenders. If you chose to surrender at this point then that is up to you but it will not be predetermined, as when dontmindme dies, anyone can win the war."
Obviously I was slightly misinformed about the full scope of the rules on fake wars at this time so I thought it was legal to propose this.
We found his name pretty hilarious given the situation.
Please get your head out of your arse, this has nothing to do with me. This has everything to do with how the game is set up: 25 provinces fighting together to win a war. No room for "ra's al ghul"s here..Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
What is the purpose of electing a king if he doesn't have anything to say about how the majority of the KD wants, what does he represents? Just a guy with the "War" button?
Dealmaking isn't a bad thing in itself, the purpose of the deal is. Just as guns don't kill people, people kill people (and robots with guns, but that's another topic :) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
No, as stated above, this isnt about 1 province is about one kingdom, that has one goal: win wars. 1 province standing against this goal HAS to GO!Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Nothing to do with morale code, everything to do with common sense and the purpose of the game.
Otherwise what prevents the rest of the 24 provinces to defect, grow and distroy some 24 other kingdoms, which could to the same thing, leading to every kd that doesn't have 25 provinces already to have one province that starts attacking intra-kd on wars?
Sounds fun, sign me up!!! While bother winning wars, and having kingdom strategies, and taking care of a province, when you could go all out on intra-kd raze oow or intra-kd hits on the team-mate currently being chained by oponents, taking them out for good and runining wars.
Hurray for Utopia- the place where everyone is free to do whatever he wants, as long as "dealmaking" isn't involved ;)
If this doesn't wake you up, I don't know what will, so this will be my last post on this matter, then act accordingly(and maybe get more fun in the procees, and not waking up at 6 am to attack in wars, when I can just wait for a kd mate to get down to 300 acres so i can blast his province to pieces, avians seems to do a good job for that, with 5 gens and low attack time, could even get rax to get the minimum attack time, so i could be able to 10x a province before any of my kd mates get their armies at home after a chain :) ). How cool would that be?
Its is about you since you voiced your opinion that people that dont agree with the monarch should be deleted. Yes, the end goal would be a 25 provinces kingdom that works well but that end goal is very rarely reached in todays Utopia. "Dont have anything to say" isnt same thing as "Get to delete everyone who doesnt share his views" There is a huge gap between those two aspects.Quote:
Please get your head out of your arse, this has nothing to do with me. This has everything to do with how the game is set up: 25 provinces fighting together to win a war. No room for "ra's al ghul"s here..
What is the purpose of electing a king if he doesn't have anything to say about how the majority of the KD wants, what does he represents? Just a guy with the "War" button?
But lets delete all those that isnt like me!Quote:
Dealmaking isn't a bad thing in itself, the purpose of the deal is. Just as guns don't kill people, people kill people (and robots with guns, but that's another topic :) )
You are free to kill him off, there is nobody that stopping you.Quote:
No, as stated above, this isnt about 1 province is about one kingdom, that has one goal: win wars. 1 province standing against this goal HAS to GO!
Nothing to do with morale code, everything to do with common sense and the purpose of the game.
"Destroy" if your kingdom gets destroyed by one single provinces that attacks intra then your kingdom is **** and wouldnt last long in the first place.Quote:
Otherwise what prevents the rest of the 24 provinces to defect, grow and distroy some 24 other kingdoms, which could to the same thing, leading to every kd that doesn't have 25 provinces already to have one province that starts attacking intra-kd on wars?
You think that you are entitled to a easy way out cause you have your morale beliefes that a kingdom should act in a certain way. Thats not the way Utopia works, but I guess some people are just lazy and rather wanna do easy way out of things than work for it.
As usual, you understand only what you want, the reality doesn't matter to you. How can you agree with the end goal for a KD, but at the same time deny any rights to the King, which is elected by the majority of the players? This is the reason for which the "end goal is very rarely reached in todays Utopia". Half the age people get rid of inactives or unfit players in the KD, and the less players there are in a KD the harder it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
No, just delete those that go against the kingdom's best interest.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Sure, wasting time to kill of a province that may be unbreakable at some point is soo, fun, that everyone joining utopia can't stay away from... dude, get real!Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Who the F are you to decide if a kd is **** or not, or that they last long? This is a free game, not only for the top 3 kds in the world...Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
Maybe you are a no-lifer with lots of time to spend on utopia, but i'd rather not spend time killing of provs that could be removed with a click of the button...Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
In the 2 wars we've lost we had to kill of around 5 inactives and 1 guy hitting intra-kd. started 24 provinces,with 2 new that were inactives after a short while, and atm we're only 19, each war some 2 provinces seem to go inactive.
And I don't really care so much about this kd since I joined them in the beginning of this age, but I've seen the last age they were quite high on the charts, so I respect them, despite the 2 losses.
I've just recently rejoined and I'm not sure I'll stick around too much, given the perspectives...
You do have a naive approach to Utopia and its playing, I assume you just recently joined? Its not as black and white as you like to picture it. What about this, two kds that merge, two monarchs, who should be the monarch in the case? Just the majority rules? But what about the other kd then? ITs not supose to be easy, if it was easy what is it worth then?Quote:
As usual, you understand only what you want, the reality doesn't matter to you. How can you agree with the end goal for a KD, but at the same time deny any rights to the King, which is elected by the majority of the players? This is the reason for which the "end goal is very rarely reached in todays Utopia". Half the age people get rid of inactives or unfit players in the KD, and the less players there are in a KD the harder it is.
Aw, poor smuch, you have to work for something, how bad. :(Quote:
Sure, wasting time to kill of a province that may be unbreakable at some point is soo, fun, that everyone joining utopia can't stay away from... dude, get real!
Well if you cant handle ONE SINGLE PROVICE that is out of line then your kingdom cant be good. Its one ****ing province, against the rest of the kingdom.Quote:
Who the F are you to decide if a kd is **** or not, or that they last long? This is a free game, not only for the top 3 kds in the world...
Yea, but we also concluded that you are lazy and dont wanna work for it, probably spoiled to begin with.Quote:
Maybe you are a no-lifer with lots of time to spend on utopia, but i'd rather not spend time killing of provs that could be removed with a click of the button...
It's simple why it's illegal - your war hasn't officially started so you don't deserve war protection. You can raze him out of war without war protection and nobody will care.
There is nothing that suggests you deserve war protection while you are prepping for war (i.e. Clearing the offending province). This is unfair to provinces who should otherwise be fully entitled to hit in.
Once you claim you have a formal right to protection, where does "prepping for war" stop? You would not have been trading hits while in war protection. Should two kingdoms be allowed to stay in war indefinitely while clearing inactives and only starting once both sides were done? They would be able to instantly withdraw by then.
Don't try to bend the rules. You didn't deserve war protection.
Justdoitro, be civil please.
Yeah, this justdoit guy isn't in my KD btw. I don't agree with him.
We understand the rules better now and have learned our lesson!
IF you re gonna correct JustDoIt dude you should correct Korp for being deterimental of the discussion. It hurt my eyes and pains my brain looking at his words, constantly claiming the JustDoIt dude just wanted to delete someone for not "agreeing with him".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
Korp> "So in your world what is fair is that you delete those that doesnt agree with you. Yea, thats very fair bro.. lol.".... THE ****ING SPIRIT, that everyone is demandded to be able to read into in a text (rule) it seems, was that he wanted to "delete", or rather intra-raze ofcourse since its the only way to "delete" someone in game, someone that was misbehaving and getting in the way for the kingdom to war. NOBODY with a sane mind, neither Korp, can claim that it is behaviour not warrenting instant raze if one would hit, not the enemy chain, but the enemies chain within your own team.
THE SPIRIT of the message was to make it fair for both parties, not to uphold an ego. How Korp interpret it like that I do not know, maybe it comes easily to heart. Either way its ****ing annoying reading his trolling.
SO. Since it is a bannable offence not to see the SPIRIT, I would like an investigation on Korp please. Or he can just apologize for his mistake and move on.
I am civil, thats the difference, please make your text more readable. It hurts my eyes trying to figure out what you want to convey when you cant use simple things as the quote function. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ape
I shall try though, ive had years of experince of reading Elit-ish. What he wanted was that province that dont follow the monarch should be deleted cause he consider monarch being the ultimate power those that dont follow the monarchs order should be gone simply put. Utopia isnt this black and white for it to work like that. A good kd has 25 people that follows one or several leaders, most kingdoms arent that good. But what I would do if I had a rouge province in my ghetto I would kill it off, I wouldnt come here crying about how its horrible and wanting a monarchy "delete anyone that i dont think is okey" button.
You seem confused though and cant seperate the in-game rules with the forum rules. Seems like a simple distinction, forums has one set of rules and in-game has another set of rules. Hence I havent done anything that warrants being banned. If you like though you can always report post and it will be looked at.
r.i.p :(Quote:
Originally Posted by korp
Ape, do not backseat mod. If you have a problem with a post then report it, do not argue with mod instructions.
Add a note when you delete a post please. How am I otherwise to learn from my mistakes. If it was the part directed towards you, again, you could have deleted just that and kept the other part directed towards Korp. Cause that part was AWSOME! :)
When say don't argue with me, don't argue.
Do not reply to this post. Get back on topic please.