Yet another instance where the top 1% want to bottom feed off the other 99% without impunity.
The moral of the story here is to quit bottom feeding.
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Yet another instance where the top 1% want to bottom feed off the other 99% without impunity.
The moral of the story here is to quit bottom feeding.
Seriously? when we hit them its bottom feeding, and they are supposed to retal, and when we retal to them, its unfair?!!
I would like to hear on what you deem fair?
1. We invited him before we retaled
2. He acted cheeky and said that he wont join us, if we want we can join him. We agreed to this. To this he retracted his proposal, with an all age CF clause and asked for more hits before CF. We agreed for equaling out gains on both sides to which he refused. Moreover, he continued hits while we were negotiating.
3. We retaled his hits, after an open message from both sides that we cannot diplo out of this.
4. We can handle his **** across the age, as long as its outside wars. If peeps condemn hitting into wars, they should see my point here. I have no complains on the way the guy handled it. In fact I admired his gameplay and invited him. However, its hitting into wars that I claim against from the verry start, and I still stick to my point.
If at all, its a 2 vs 1 situation against us right now.
I'd CF them for sure even if they wanted some land. The only person to blame is the person who initiated the conflict with their poor hit.
Exchanging hits with a ghetto is effectively the same as laying down on your stomach and fighting with the dirt. There's nothing to gain and it makes you look crazy.
Make your kingdom take this test and they should get better:
Target Finding Certification
"Fairness" is an abstract and frivolous concept. Gains are all that matter.
I would have spent the time nesesary for a total anihilation, likely 1-2 weeks and left them all on 50 acres, Cause when someone point a gun at you and threathen to fire you break his arm so he can not do that. Of course there is a reason for me not beeing interested in leadership responsibility.
To all those who are turning this scenario into a BOTTOM FEEDING thing in defense of someone HITTING INTO A WAR, I say this.
You all are against bottom feeding. So please remove the concept of hitting into province NW range. Make the attacks dependent on KD networth. If I can hit any guy within 85-120% of me, I can hit a KD small or large. Same goes for a smaller KD. And this wont be called Bottom feeding or Top Pesting.
You say hitting into a war is something frowned upon, but is okay in this case coz we are the bigger KD. I also know no one can help it as a human mind is hardwired to go for the underdogs. Since we are larger and they are small, its okay, despite the fact that we made the umpteenth attempt to solve this thing. So, hitting into wars is fine as long as you are a smaller KD.
Someone said its fine as long as its not a 2vs1 thing. If nothing is said in rules about anything, why the hell is that unfair? I know, this happened with us in this case, but I still say, if anything thats not in rules is fair, then this is okay.
Also, deal breaking is fairplay then. Why then the whole debate about how unfair things were for KD X when Y deal broke on their CF. Hell, I can break a deal amidst someone else's WAR and attach them if I have a beef against them.
But all this is frowned upon, because sometimes there are rules which not need be stated to be followed, just to make the game more enjoyable for all. Frankly, had I been in that guy's spot, I may have retaliated the same way, but ended up accepting the proposal when I get things evened up, coz obviously I do not have an ego bloated enough to spoil 3 months of gameplay just for revenge. He did it, we tried reconciliation, even to the extent of stopping hits while they continued Spell cover and ops on us (and still wont accept CF). But when things cross a threshold, I guess action needs to be taken.
Thank you all for your insight. I see the game better now.
I'm a professional bottomfeeder certified by the Utopian Industry.
The "rules" and lawyering you see among the top kingdoms doesn't really extend to the lower ranking kingdoms. It's effectively the wild west down there. Unless you are networked with other kingdoms you don't functionally have the ability to police anything. On the flip side, neither do the kingdoms you are targeting so you can be quite vicious. Just watch out for the handful that -are- affiliated with top kingdoms.
Razing buildings remains useful! You lose nw from the peasant reduction too. Can always intra kidnap/fb I suppose but when it comes down to it you really don't need most of those buildings for whoring anyway. A few tgs, stabs, maybe a splash of forts for the sake of dpnw efficiency if defense is even necessary. Done.
You aren't taking acres off a prov half your size any more octo. It's this lack of attention to detail that will cause tears.
Op, retalling the retal was silly if you are growing. You invited conflict, should have left it at the retal.
Can't or wont?
Overall just sound like bad diplo and people who get too upset over some hits... If your giving ops might as well do full waves. If CF negotiation seemed unfair for an EoA then try to work some other angle and if they are being that persistent of EoA or bust just offer it (they proved that a EoA deal would have been worth it). If they are smaller than you, in theory you won't be hitting them from the rest of the age anyways. EoA deals are handed out more frequently than you think. Now your in this situation and are obviously upset about it... learn from it L2dip (yes it doesn't come easy).
I grew up on Candid Camera and In Search Of.
I'm talking about launching AmnesiaCam! Shaky camera angles with poor unsuspecting random attackers getting sprayed with a face full of forgetfulness. I'm telling you it's comedy gold.
Posting results in forum. " Wup, here comes a big curious looking orc warrior. He's pokin' around... "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYi_hq2p1Ac
Fyi, I'm considering suiciding into a top KD for the rest of the age for bullying.
I'm not saying I'd do it to you if what you said is true but alot of "Top KDs" act arrogantly enough being PK'd by a 3rd party while in a war is deserved. (i.e. Equal-ish exchange of acres followed by a CF of indeterminate length is fair. Even if you were up quite a bit, it'd still be fair.)
Any top KD that refuses to CF while bottom feeding when they are up tho deserves the PKing in war imo.
the thread is not about some top kd but a sub 3 million nw kingdom (now) getting razed by a 5 man kingdom, likely a group of friends, and that kingdom has done it before, oh he is also an attacking faery.
By the way I'm not afiliated with any of the two kingdoms, I just so happened to keep tabs of the smaller kingdom because of their actions towards the last kd we warred, and got to know the other kd by grabbing some intel.
While diplo may have been bad or lacking what I understod from their previous victim posting their messages in our warforum is diplomacy was not possible even given the best circumstances, of course I only got one side of the story there too. The bigger kingdom then tries to settle it by force but lacks to see that they need to take on the entire kingdom as what they are up against is likely a group of friends not some random get together, this comes back and bites them in their behind when they goes to war without having followed up on initially razing the faery for arround half his acres.
Of course if the bigger kingdom threathened the smaller their actions makes perfectly sense, but if it was the other way arround the bigger kingdom should have spent those 1-2 weeks on decimating the entire smaller kingdom so they could not act on it, they still can do it when exitting war and entering warending cf, but if they feel like spending the time dooing just that I do not see the need for this thread at all. There is no use getting trolled by top kingdom, just act if that is your intention and if not then you know why they did as hey did, cause they got away with it again because you could not set your other goals aside to deal with them. One of their goals apparently became to interfere in your war, possible your upcomming wars as well.
Simply an unfortunate event. I can understand how things spun out of control.
Quite truthfully I don't random, I only retal...unless I'm playing in a competitive kingdom. Even then I'm reluctant to invade smaller kingdoms. I make my way in war as a means of progression. I have setbacks just like everyone else. I'm a goody-2-shoes, that's why.
Because a portion of my acres are due solely to my willingness to retal you can imagine it's a practice I take seriously. To understand this, we're talking about my army getting hit at home by a larger opponent from an organized kingdom. This is the standard by which we both function. I've been doing this for roughly 10 ages. The thing is, I can be reasoned with. I enjoy the challenge. I respect my opposition.
It seems the problem is unintentional disrespect. This comes down to first impressions. I can do everything everyone else does.( I'm using myself as an example of every player, so I don't want to lose you on this.) I am only one and you've found kingdom with 20 something of me, and resolute. They don't have to be mechanical geniuses, they only need the will and the offense. All other brilliant tactics, purpose in gaming, meta expertise and diplomatic aerobatics are irrelevant.
I certainly don't think you deserve this. This is one of the possible outcomes of randoming. I never stopped randoming for fear of opposition, I stopped because I knew I could manage. My appreciation for the small player base is qualified by a live and let live mentality. If someone randoms me, I can appreciate their willingness to match skills. Every whoring kingdom takes the same risk. I hope this doesn't ruin your age.
arrogance = ignorance , in a lot of cases anyway.
so say he would have given that kingdom land and CFed...how would that have helped with the province that defected several times to hit them?
bad diplo is not always the answer.
"Early in life I had to choose between honest arrogance and hypocritical humility. I chose the former and have seen no reason to change." -Frank L. Wright
A rare gem!
I assumed it was them at first too! I'm in their channel though and can assure everyone that these are not the droids you are looking for.
Let me tell you a story about arrogance, some years ago, I think it was arround 2011 or 2012 someone started a new top kingdom, mainly by importing high profile players from a lot of other kingdoms if I understood it correctly, that kingdom was named Insomia, and as far as I'm aware it bellyflopped so bad it did not exist after a few ages (atleast not under that name).
My new kingdom was lead by a crazy queen that encuraged us to retal and hit Insomia hard when they started their farm game after end of protection thinking they would not engage as their goal was competition for the top, turns out they did engage after beeing poked, and declared war a few tics before dubbeling our size, we was at 55-60% of their nw or something (declare range was implemented the next age). The arrogant thing that happened is the first thing they posted in the warforum was the following question "do you yield" and I sure think it was posted by their king. This was repeated over and over with the war not even having reached min time, we of course did not want to stop hitting them as that would be fw'ing, and why should we give up resistance to let them farm us onesided in active war? We ended up having to conquest them one by one, they was so desperate for us to let them out of war as they could random for more OOW that they ended up surrendering after 55 hours or so since we was in no hurry to do the same.
Later from what I found (was in vm the entire war) we tried the same with Mele weapons and got decimated as they did spend 1-2 weeks destroying us (nw win was also implemented the next age I think).
The morale of the story don't talk down to others about arrogance it exist in top kingdoms even more so than in the lower tier, and if someone poke you with a stick either ignore, diplo out of it or spend the time nesesary to deal with it, if you don't want to change your goals don't engage, if you are flexible enougth with your goals so they can be swiched then the kingdom that poke at you won't come out on top.
Personally, I am rediscovering the joy of this game right now because of a very similar situation. Some nub made a dumb hit on me, I instructed them to get their monarch to CF me with terms because they are dumb. They wrote around 10 paragraph long messages to me, my monarch, etc etc. about how I was not big enough to carry out any threats and I should just STFU. I wrote back "LOL. I am an avian warrior dude...." They still did not get it and razed me several times then went on their way to pump for war. I waited for my fun fun joy joy time and got a few mason jars for the tears I would collect. They entered war. I waited for their opponants wave +6 ticks of troop desertions and then BOOM! 75 acres razed per wave. So deliciously salty tears.. They RK'd me. I respawned someplace else, waited for the proper moment and BOOM! This is simply the most fun I have had in utopia in about 8 ages. The best part is, all the newer players in my kingdom are learning and getting better as a result of their asking me the hows and whys of what I am doing. I consider this a public service as well as a pleasure.
Someone just got added to the sheitlist.
I'll admit I thought of you guys first, but I smiled when I did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE
You went into war without clearing previous relations, them hitting into war is quite predictable because why the hell would they pause their grudge just because you want to war?
When diplo failed because you refused their offer for being unreasonable then you shouldn't have gone into new relations without clearing prior relations by wiping that kingdom as many times as it took for them to agree to CF. You're essentially "running" from a conflict and there is plenty of top kd precedents about what happens when a kd tries to run from a conflict.
Just a reminder: I won't condemn or criticize you, AnonymousBoy.
I sympathize with what you're going through as a kingdom. The problem with coming to the forum is that you'll be lavished with critisism, if you have a particular promblem. Critics tend to be republicans when it's your problem and democrats when it's theirs.
On balance I'd say people tend to pile on around here when a guy just needs a moment to vent. I hope to remind all that barking out a crap storm on an already frustrated player isn't good for the health of Utopia. But I still like you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU9Dsl89UGo
I think most ghetto and some sub T-50 KDs will never consider having done what they did to Anonboy. Most newly formed or struggling mid-tier KDs wont take the chance to ruin the fun of their people for 1 or 2 weeks just to get revenge later on people that doesn't really matter to them anyways.
Knowing this...its obvious that almost all consistently chart topping KDs believe this too and they would ALWAYS take advantage of these situations every time they present themselves (who wouldn't, free land anyone?)
Show the nubs who is boss, teach them a lesson for hitting into you randomly or for retaling the hit you decided to make into them. Regardless on how it starts, most of the time it ends the way the bigger KD wanted it to end.
If anything...this is a blueprint for all the smaller KDs who couldn't imagine how to really get the respect you deserve when a bigger KD starts to bully using their position.
If the bigger KD would have just ACCEPTED worse terms than desired FOR A CHANGE...then they would have not made enemies.