Binar is 100% right, it is terrible mechanics and needs to be fixed. Last age we waved two kingdoms that refused to cf us. They just opt us for two weeks and never declared on us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
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Binar is 100% right, it is terrible mechanics and needs to be fixed. Last age we waved two kingdoms that refused to cf us. They just opt us for two weeks and never declared on us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
There are a couple ways to address it:
1) Make ops add points to the meter in some capacity. I don't know how you would exactly scale it (20 ops = 1 point, NW Damage, ???)
2) Give the "aggressor" KD the same insta-cf mechanic at 100 point difference and no hits in 12 hours
My favorite part of that war was Binar getting chained and throwing a hissy fit, sort of like he is now. Cussed out Pan because we chained him, instead of taking his offer of a better CF for WDing early. I mean seriously? Rage harderQuote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Took you 4 days, with a 35% offense advantage, 3 prov advantage, and being fed a button by a mole/troll who went afk for war after hitting you 7 times in a row... To farm like 10% of land? I honestly laughed finding out it was Emeriti, I figured a mid tier warring kd that had great activity but no skill. Congrats you can at least beat a 22 man war kd with 1/3 randoms.
@Maugrim Mhmm after you were gifted meter by some idiot and we had 2 KDs opping us, you prolonged diplo a long time, Kygal spoke with you and Cap, said we had a CF come morning then you declared while we transitioning into fort builds, stupidly. Yeah you won that war, you played very well, great activity, but don't act like just because we had a NW advantage that we had an advantage for that war. Troop count was even and you had the button with avians, our cows were doing fresh explores, we got out of it only losing core land easily re-whored.
Well played FS. Showing everyone what we all expect from you, excellent work!
Dude, thats so not true. I threw a hissy fit cause Panthira accused us of planting moles. Do you really think I care about if my province is chained? Rather me than someone else that I ahve to sit anyways...Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
Thats like the second or third time you repete that lie, doesnt make it any more true only because you keep saying it.
AND AGAIN:
FS deserved this win, they usually do when they win their wars. Its a reason why they pwn everytime they decide to pwn. Hats off to them.
Doesnt mean I cant adresse the clearly faulty mechanics
This is off subject but, wtf is a bananamancer? Is that a banana fetish? Or maybe slang for now you like your d size of a banana with a wicked curve?
I ask because like you I am ignorant.
Somebody pewpew'd in Binar's cornflakes.
I think you might've wanted to take a less demanding approach to your question to the devs. Acting like "all you did was ask them a question" is kinda glossing over the manner in which you asked that question.
Thats nothing compared to other threads thats been created about devs/mods here the past days. And they all got their repliesQuote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
me saying that a mechanic change is retarded and one of the worst ever is something i stand by.
and again, it might not have changed the outcome of the war at all, FS would have adapted to whatever gains we had gotten and played differently but still great cause they are a good kd.
Doesnt mean the mechanic isnt whack
Maybe the devs had the time to craft a proper responsible reply for those threads. Maybe those threads had to wait a bit of time as well, you certainly weren't timing them all I hope? Can't really say how fast the devs responded other than by timestamps. Proper dev replies require taking some time to get it right, not just kneejerk reaction posts.
I believe the gains throttling exists to, ya know, give the rest of the average server a chance against superior kingdoms waving them nonstop for days just because they can. You waving a larger kingdom and feeling the affects of the throttling is one of those rare circumstances when the mechanic is not ideal, but overall it does what it is intended to do for the majority of the server I think.
You didn't ask for a reason. You said the mechanic was retarded. You explained that after you ran the meter up you were stuck between a rock and a hard place and then you demanded that the devs comment. At no point in there does it sound like you're just a concerned utopian inquiring about mechanic details. You sound like an angry soccer mom that's demanding to talk to the manager because the cashier told her that her 50 cent coupon was expired.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
The forum admins moderate the moderators.Quote:
Originally Posted by azsxdcfv
And I don't respond to being slapped with a smile and a thank you. Respect me and I'll respect you. Simple as that. Also, I'm clearly being tongue and cheek calling Binar a noob. He's a prominent leader with a large resume of success. He's clearly not a noob.
I've never claimed that the devs can't implement bad changes. However, Binar and previously Shiester had exactly the same complaint (at least initially) in "The thing we always do didn't work! These changes are bull****!" That is not only an invalid complaint, it also shows an inability to adapt to changes. That's not saying there isn't a valid complaint somewhere in their anger, but simply the fact that what you tried to do didn't work isn't a valid complaint about mechanics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
Not that it matters at all, but I led a few hostiles at the top. All things considered I'd say we got the best of most of the kingdoms that tried to push us.
@Binar again
I could be wrong, but I don't remember anything being mentioned about the meter throttling being affected by kingdom sizes in either direction.
Then don't push the meter up on random kingdoms and expect no consequences? I've yet to see anyone actually explain why this is a bad mechanic outside of the logic of not being able to do things the way it was done before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldhearted
@palem:
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...4#post15453094Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC
Yeah so about that... throttling isn't being reduced inrange. We were ~100% of the KD NW (mighta been smaller still) of 5:20 with Godspeed (+10%) orc (+20%) /wh (+5%) hitting inrange, unhit provs (+/-5 / 100% nw and land) and getting 3-4% gains. If base gains are 12%, adding those bonuses together puts un-throttled gains to 16.632%. That's about an 85% reduction from orc base gains, which accounts for -75% throttling plus their GS (~15%). Hitting a light hit prov dropped gains as abysmally low as 1.9% (!).
This is clearly not working as the changes state. So, palem, before you start telling people that their strategy is bad, read the changes and do some math. :p
Congrats to 5:20, whoever they are ;) they wouldn't tell me when I asked ingame though.
[QUOTE=Palem;15455783
Then don't push the meter up on random kingdoms and expect no consequences? I've yet to see anyone actually explain why this is a bad mechanic outside of the logic of not being able to do things the way it was done before.[/QUOTE]
Noone cares what you think Palem. i dont know why you keep posting.
Memster perfectly well explained what was wrong, as did I.
According to the changes: Meter Throttling - there will be a reduction to throttling that occurs within declare range."
We got max trottling and they were bigger.
So Iam asking again: JeffT and David C. Is this working as intended?
Took 20mins to reply to the other threads. yet to see any sign of a reply now after 1.5hrsQuote:
Originally Posted by Verminator
Meter Throttling - Adjusted to reduce operation damage against Kingdoms that have gains throttled on you. Also there will be a reduction to throttling that occurs within declare range.
this didnt occure. Thus I complain/ask for the intentions ebhind the mechanic change
Where in my post did I say a "emeriti planted mole gave a button" I didn't, but someone clearly not just through a mistake hit you 7 times in 24 hours to give you the button. Then you contacted us by name without having any way of knowing what KD we were.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
So you were given a button by a troll, then contacted Panthira and I by name asking us to WD at min time, we never got an explanation to how you knew our loc other than "a hunch". How about the better explanation of when: you know who we were, you are fed a button by some troll, that maybe something fishy is going on. Your cussing out Panthira before removing her from slack after we didn't WD and chained you hardly seems like "I dunn liek being called a cheater". But hey, maybe that's just how you are.
ehh what? I dont care what you said or didnt say about who planted a mole in your post. Thats what Panthira said, and thats why I reacted the way I didQuote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
Dude, we were 22 provs like 10 hrs OOP cause we had to kill 3 randoms and replace them. We were on the same island and we were hit by 2 or 3 provinces in your kd not just 1. How on the earth could I plan that?
And I cussed her out when she accused us of moleing/cheating, not because I got chained. And you bet ya I kicked her psycho ass from our slack pubchan.
You need better sources
Game Date April 1 of YR1
Real Date Thu, 16 Nov at 18:07 GMT+00:00
Sender Lord Xianxia the Skeptic of MTM (1:15)
Recipient The Conniving King True Lies of Harry Tasker (6:10)
Subject Panthira/Smiles
Hi.
If you are interessed this is the kingdom of those two.
Last age it was tagged as "kingdom of rock".
*****
This is how people know who you are every age btw. Iam sure Iam not the only one getting ingame msgs about that every d@mn age.
Told your monarch and steward I wouldnt share that to anyone, but you are starting to piss me off.
ohh and it wasnt any of the provs that hit us last age that told us FYI. Your kd simply rotten. not my fault
In this case, perhaps, as you were smaller simply by choice (being the only kingdom in the top not to explore from their first war). But yes, the mechanic appears to need some tweaking. In fact, I'm not sure I understand the logic of even having throttling when there's an auto surrender option.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
atleast have auto surrender/CF work both ways? like if we dont attack for 12 hrs and meter difference is still 100+?Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
I dont know something like that
I thought about that but thats easy to make 1 hit every 12 hours, or keep meter at 98, etc. Too many loopholes. Moreso - Why have any throttling if you have an auto-surrender option. The two are redundant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
you cant autosurrender in range. maybe thats the idea behind it (throttling)? I dont know.Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
Thats why iam asking if this is working as intended.
Seems to be a hard Q for Jeff And david to answer since theyve been reading this thread for 2 hrs and still havent bothered to answer
I doubt the intention of the mechanic is to gimp legit hostiles. This will need to be reviewed.
what an awesome rant reminds me why i miss ryan. I did notice david popping in and out as well my guess would be the devs don't understand what they did hence no response.
LOL I <3 you Bin Bin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
Lesh said it better than me:Quote:
Originally Posted by Crunch
"Yeah so about that... throttling isn't being reduced inrange. We were ~100% of the KD NW (mighta been smaller still) of 5:20 with Godspeed (+10%) orc (+20%) /wh (+5%) hitting inrange, unhit provs (+/-5 / 100% nw and land) and getting 3-4% gains. If base gains are 12%, adding those bonuses together puts un-throttled gains to 16.632%. That's about an 85% reduction from orc base gains, which accounts for -75% throttling plus their GS (~15%). Hitting a light hit prov dropped gains as abysmally low as 1.9% (!)."
Is this working as intended?
and I also miss Ryan <3
Without joining the thread's pissing contest, I would like to confirm that hits are now throttled at -85% or so and that bounces give gb protection. While I am exactly the person who would miss changes and then get caught off guard on them later, I'm rather sure neither of these were announced. The changes said there would be -75% throttling that was reduced in range by some inexplicably undisclosed amount, and while I remember some discussion of gbp on bounces in the past I was unable to find it in any changes.
You can make the mechanics as awful as you want and we will probably adapt to them better than anyone else. Now that we've figured out what they are, I'm sure we will manage. Just don't come whining later about how lame our strats are and how they abuse the mechanics. We aren't the ones that have made awful mechanics age after age for the last five years that can only be dealt with by abusive crappy strategies. Less awful mechanics would not be so prone to single strategies becoming dominant and would be a lot more fun. Worst of all, the usual response to finding loopholes in the mechanics has been doubling down on bad mechanics, making them even worse.
@Binar things like this should be posted in the Bug Reports so that we can more easily keep track and review it
I'm currently looking into the accuracy of your claim. Had you mentioned this while it was taking place or is this the first time?
Thank you for your reply. I think you will find our claims accurate. and this is the first time Iam mentioning itQuote:
Originally Posted by DavidC
I was mid conflict and busy. and didnt expect you to change anything on the second.
You made the mechanics and coded it. You should know how it works.
iam asking you if its working as intended or if this is f****ed
and the two past times I posted in bugs last age You didnt bother answer me for 2 days or not at all. The way to get a response seem to be calling you out in UT
I don't do the mechanic coding. Some of these mechanics are very complex due to the interactions between the different areas that this particular mechanic functions.
I can confirm that throttling in general is -75% when meter disparity is 125 which is stated in the changes. The statements that throttling goes up to 85% are incorrect unless there are other factors such as GS/OOR/MAP/KR
FYI I was not asking if you had mentioned it earlier as a slight, I was only curious if I had missed it somewhere else
""""Yeah so about that... throttling isn't being reduced inrange. We were ~100% of the KD NW (mighta been smaller still) of 5:20 with Godspeed (+10%) orc (+20%) /wh (+5%) hitting inrange, unhit provs (+/-5 / 100% nw and land) and getting 3-4% gains. If base gains are 12%, adding those bonuses together puts un-throttled gains to 16.632%. That's about an 85% reduction from orc base gains, which accounts for -75% throttling plus their GS (~15%). Hitting a light hit prov dropped gains as abysmally low as 1.9% (!)"""" as leshrak said.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC
So not as intended since changes state that it will be reduced throttling for kds in range. And the kd we were hitting were bigger than us.
I know, thats why I edited and said thank you for your reply :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidC
The correct way to have throttling/surrendering work is to have ops move the meter. A successful unfriendly op should be 1/20 of a meter point (the earlier suggestion of having it be nw based won't work, since nw has been made into a meaningless metric). Surrendering should also be possible both ways if there is no action.
The most likely bug is that -gains penalties are being added rather than multiplied. That's the way it feels with emerald and GS stacking for some ages now.
You are misrepresenting a few things in here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
1) it did not take us 4 days, the war was over at min-time, you just refused to admit it and pan said you were "endurance warriors". By sticking in for an additional 2 days you just lost more land than you would have had you WD at min time as you should have. you have pan to blame for that.
2) We do not run moles nor do we cheat. Why some fool in your kd gave button to a stronger kd that would beat you is beyond me but its not the first nor the last time that something like this has happened without the involvement of "moles".
By 72 hours your war gains were still equal to your opening wave, you can say war was over min time, I can say war was over when someone not "some fool in your kd gave button to a stronger kd" This is someone who hit 7 times in a row, went afk, and released all troops. Not a fool but a troll, not foolish, malicious. And yes we had a random who decided to mail our loc around this age, still gives no explanation for that age, am I still to believe CK when he said it was "a hunch"? Until I get a reasonable explanation to you calling us out by name after a troll gave you a button, I'll just say you cheated, or someone cheated on your behalf.
The same age wsk waved you with war spoils lol, pretty sure your NW went up by when that war ended, just another happy accident. Emeriti gets a lot of happy accidents?
1) it did not take us 4 days, the war was over at min-time, you just refused to admit it and pan said you were "endurance warriors". By sticking in for an additional 2 days you just lost more land than you would have had you WD at min time as you should have. you have pan to blame for that.
Not a whore kd, playing war for twice as long at the cost of like 5% of our land is a good trade for a war kingdom. Some people enjoy playing the game, some people enjoy warring, more than being fed a high rank to stare at every age.
You suggest that wsk (one of the only kds weve lost a war too the past 8 ages together with sleepy FS and Barco) would farm out to me on purpose? This is getting more and more stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
It aint my fault that people in other kds do stupid nub sh1t.
One thing is for sure: youre a perfect fit in Panthiras nubghettokd
It takes at least 2 provs to give a button. Stop claiming that whoever it was that repeatedly hit us was the only reason we warred you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
Gains were bad, sure, that's what happens in an oop war against another active kd where everyone started at 400a. Chaining was next to impossible, but you had less military, less econ, and no peasants.
As for wsk, I don't think they expected a kd of rogues/mystics to declare straight away, but you'd really need to ask them what they were thinking. We were as surprised as you seem to be (possibly more).
Yeah, with an end of day tick, we had 1 prov hit once, another ambush, and said troll hit 7 times.
As I said, just happy accidents to be sure.
Okey im sick and tired of your BS. We are the same size now. Fill your ghetto kd and war me then. but nah, you are 22 recruiting 1. LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Bananamancer2000
GTFO here ghettonub, you cant even fill a kd with enough players to compete even if you wanted too
#n00bLord #gitgud
I'd expect it to take more than a few hours to determine the effectiveness of the rule changes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
Then they could ahve told me they would look into it ;) (like they did after 2.5hrs)Quote:
Originally Posted by flogger
This.Quote:
Originally Posted by Binar
P.S. Where is Panther now? Does she know I refer to her as Panther?