Sure sure ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev
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Sure sure ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by octobrev
Razing in to TBB is not because they cheated - who cares. Everyone cheats just some don't get caught.
Raizing in to TBB is because they still have not closed relations and went and started another one.
Baka you pride yourself on being straightforward but all you have proven so far is to be a liar. Same goes for all your vouching for BB, like BB are slacking, now you admit they saw a shot at crown yourself.
Or you are lying. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
But who cares, my point is no one wanted you. Now Bart takes you in and you become his sidekick?
Astron told me multiple times I can stay, yume tried talking me out of leaving, Loiso as well, but OK. My attitude is far from the best, but there's a reason they kept me in the KDs in the first place, you figure it out why yourself, you should know, big mouth yet nobody minds...
Edit: Screenshot didn't load... and Yume told me to not post my chat with Astron. Blah.
Yes, you lie.
EDIT:
Damn, they told me you were some 10/10 hot Asian catch, that's you in the picture? I R disappoint.
Speaking of yume, she can confirm my FS story and probably my BB story as well.
Baka, nice post. Love your explanation. TBB is getting destroyed because they were stupid and went after CR again instead of warring with FS. Let me ask you this? If TBB would have gone to war with FS, would CR and Divinity have stayed out of it? I don't think so. TBB had Emeriti, CR, and FS doing ops and attacks against them and they chose to go after CR because they KNEW CR called in their friends to help fight their battles. Your intentions were not to War TBB, otherwise your monarch would have negotiated terms for the war instead of just waving them. Your goal was not to close relations with TBB, otherwise your monarch would have negotiated terms for a CF. Your goal was clearly to destroy TBB so you joined CR and enlisted Divinity to accomplish this. Why? Because of past deals with TBB? No, because of fear of TBB. You know that TBB would be hard to beat on equal terms. They are more active than most kingdoms you come across and has awesome leadership. It would have been awesome to see the outcome of a war between TBB and FS, but your monarch was a coward. He chose to destroy instead of engage, and he has you all believing you are fighting some righteous cause.
2 more questions:
If you are as awesome as you say you are, why wave a smaller TBB instead of negotiating a war?
If TBB would have won the first war, and then waved CR right after and demanded more honor and land would you have stayed out of it or jumped in to help CR deal with the ****play TBB was pulling on them?
I already know the answers to both of them, I just want to laugh at your lies one more time. lol
Too much assumptions made. I don't know who's in CR other than some ex-BiO players and I don't know what they would've done. The fact of the matter is the relations weren't closed and that's that. No point spinning it around and saying something that didn't happen at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ed
Sometimes I really don't know if people like you are just making so much crap up that you start believing it to be truth or you're simply trolling.
But let's assume TBB did war FS and Divity/CR waved in - I would personally be the first to be pissed at them for interfering and first to raise my hands to GB them in due time.
And TBB wasn't much smaller, they were more trained up with higher wpa than us and only smaller by 10k acres.
Let's stick to the facts my young padawan and stop making stuff up in your head.
I mean, I'm the King of ****play - I hit in to Rage's war because I was bored and I hit in to Ghetto Cats war because they stole my gc. I even broke a few EOA deals because I woke up on the wrong side of the bed.
But let facts be facts - TBB was just plain stupid of not handling things smartly and now they pay for it unfortunately. I just hope the players in TBB get riled up over this and want revenge next age - there's just too few kd's left now to not have some long term grudges to keep the game fun.
Oh he is not young, confirmed by Mr Uncle :PQuote:
Originally Posted by baka
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
I tried to be nice and get you to stay, Matija, but you weren't seeing reason, and we just wanted you to leave without us having to raze you out. We always prefer players to leave amicably. We wanted you to find a home you could be happy in.
And didn't I talk to you for a while, trying to get you to abandon BB without fuss? In the end, the OS guys were nice, but you agreed to leave them at eoa.
Well, you're with Bart now, and if he can take care of you and keep you happy, that's good. I, ofc, will always consider you one of mine, seeing as I'm very possessive of our players, but you have to admit you're a difficult personality to keep in check, and that translates to liability when running a kd.
PS. baka is totally a hawt azn.
Well then you at least admit I wasn't kicked, thank you.
PS I'm just trolling him, the picture was completely hazy, couldn't see anything.
Well, Baka I appreciate your honesty. Others in your kingdom came in and lied and said TBB was only 3.5k acres smaller than them, at least you were closer to the actual figures.
None of you have answered the question though. When a kingdom withdraws from war, doesn't that close relations? Because TBB withdrew and had no plans of warring CR again.
I also appreciate that you would want to exact revenge on CR and Divinity if they interfered with a war between TBB and FS, but I am pretty sure your Monarch does not share the same honor as you do. Otherwise, why would they wave TBB for a week, and then raze into their war with CR? In fact, I am pretty sure when FS started losing to TBB he would DEMAND that CR and Divinity get involved and remind them of all the times he helped them out with their conflicts they could not handle on their own.
Actions speak louder than words, and everyone can see what CR, Divinity and FS has done to TBB this past week and see that you are not as honorable and righteous as you pretend to be. You are also not as powerful as you claim to be since it takes 3 of your kingdoms combined to do any damage to TBB. When it was just FS and CR hitting TBB for 5 days, TBB still had more honor, acres, and NW than CR and NOONE was hitting CR except TBB. That was why you guys asked Divinity for help. It takes 3 kingdoms to take down TBB now, and you seriously think you could have beat them in a 1v1 battle? Your monarch knew better. He may be a coward, but at least he is smarter than his subjects. lol
I may not agree with everything Francis does with warring strats and diplo but you don't run a notoriously famous warring kd with the often "best warring kd" title affixed to the name and call the leader a coward.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ed
Whether Francis calls CR/Divinity to help out if TBB was winning against FS (which is really laughable to be honest) I'm more than certain a majority of the KD members of FS would just quit the KD because that's not how they roll.
I mean, you can make up as much yoodle daddle as possible but the fact remains that FS gave TBB relations and instead of closing it, they decided to give another KD relations which is downright stupid. No excuses necessary.
Why FS continues to raze in I can understand if what happened in the past is true. Even if it isn't true, I still see a very good reason to raze down an opponent so that when they exit they won't be much of a problem when FS decides to war another kd or go for other goals and have TBB claim "Well we had open relations so it's okay".
We went after BiO so it was mutual fun for both. Good times! Way more honest play back then.Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
Quote:
Originally Posted by yuuume
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by mynameismatija
Loool <3 I hope one day we can play together :)Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
I disagree that Matija's personality is a liability. It only becomes a liability when leaders try to force him into a strictly circumscribed role with little freedom to express himself. I am 100% sure Matija is going to carry Sparta for large parts of future ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by yuuume
She tried to get me to stay, I wouldn't see reason and left, where's the joke? Please Francis, all you do is look down on people, it's your mission in life or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
EDIT:
I know you read everything, there's no need for people to tell you about "these threads".
EDIT2:
Ye, just keep lurking now, pop in for the occasional "lol", that's the extent of your people skills on a good day, on a bad day they actually get to hear you talk.
I think you are picking a fight with the wrong person here, I just mentioned whats been said here is the reason TBB got their war record removed no?Quote:
Originally Posted by HerpNDerp
If its good enough for Bishop, i can mention it as a fact seeing they got sanctioned for it? You can question Bishop if you like but when you get sanctioned there are usually solid evidence of foul play....
Look Baka, everyone knows the situation TBB was in. They are an Uber kingdom and not part of your click, and have no click of their own. They got smashed by FS for a week before CR finally had the balls to push the button. Now they are fighting a war with CR and getting razed by FS and Divinity with 2 provinces killed off already. Have you or anyone in your kingdom quit? No, because dirty play is how you roll. You love this stuff. Personally, I have never or could never do what you are doing. Hitting someone for a week, and razing into a war?? Man, you have to be a pretty sick individual to actually enjoy doing that ****. I know, you are not doing it. You're just following orders passed down by your coward of a monarch. Well, drink the Kool-Aid son, you should sleep fine after you do it.
Just dont think for a minute that anyone believes that if TBB was to war with FS, that CR and Divinity would not have razed into the war. I will repeat myself. Actions speak louder than words, and we have all seen your actions. lol
In conclusion. Please do not call yourselves a "Top Warring Kingdom". Maybe you were at one time, but hey I used to be able to pick up on 20 yr olds in the bar and now I am hanging out in Bingo halls. haha You guys only have 3 wars compared to the 7 that TBB has had. You guys had a great opportunity to war with TBB, but you chose to destroy them with help from CR and Divinity. I think they only people that would consider you a "Top Warring" kingdom now are the people that are afraid of your click or want to join your click. To the rest of us, you are Cowards and Bullies and the BIGGEST joke in this game.
Aranfein, I did ask Bishop, and already posted his response. He did not mention "foul play" he said one player in TBB violated the terms by using a Proxy. Of course, people can twist that into their own story but that was how Bishop responded.
Proxy wars should start much lower in the charts. That way people can say "it goes much deeper than you think".
So for those who think there's too much drama, I'm skeptical. There can be more rich luxurious drama.
Make it go deeper than we think.
Oh, and I had gold stolen eowcf so I have a mini series in the works.
Have fun, or not. Definitely more drama.
We can farm you 900M gc to make it up and beat that prov!Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Huh? Have you considered why they were hit over a week? Because they didn't close relations with FS! Doh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ed
And they still haven't.
I assume every time a kd gets waved and doesn't want to war the waving kd, all they need to do is wave another kd and things will all be dandy? In that case, what's the point of negotiating CF's? Just wave someone else and you have every right to hold button on another KD!
CR/Divinity will raze in to our war if TBB declared? You're trying to justify for TBB for something that didn't even happen? Had they declared on FS then we can all see if CR or Div razes in. For the meantime, let's stick to what actually happened instead of making stories up to bend things around.
I think you should consider going to some Chess halls or wherever old people go these days... it might help with your process thinking.
hahahah francis do one more "lol" pls. i wanna see tears!
You can do better than this. You're speaking of pure debate based in CFs that are made to be broken.Quote:
Originally Posted by baka
You must make an argument based in right and wrong. Debating skills work with those who follow the doctrine. Those who don't will see through the bureaucracy of the CF quagmire you're reveling in. For instance, I don't abide the queue so this rebuttal is fodder to me.
Try making an argument based in TBB knowing about the proxy/multi and influencing their actions. Think on the circumstantial evidence. This will make your side more palatable to the common onlooker.
I never forgot about BiO cleaning up our inactives, so I'm favorable in regards to your character.
@ Bart. Thank you. If misfortune befalls my corrective measures I'll ask you for help. If so I will compensate with a favor.
Uncle Ed, i remember you and me speaking a long time ago ingame when you were Monarch/Vice (i think?), i can honestly say I've never seen you do any dodgy **** and i doubt you would wish to play in a KD that does that kind of thing, but with 25 players its not always the "minions" know everything, i merely quoted what was put in here as a reason why you got war wins removed and partly why people support the fact TBB gets punished for that and the gc issue.
To get full ww record removed because 1 player used proxy seems very harsh, so my personal opinion says there was more to it then that, only Bishop would know, and he don't discuss findings.
As to your question about relations being closed after a war, not really, its not ****play to come back asking for more, its quite often done actually, mainly used when KDs time WD wave to max gain +4 before WD as to make up for their loss or if there is a grudge of some kind.
You might feel hard done by but it is not an uncommon practise to having to give more for a CF deal, or you can b2b, if TBB was still in war range after war and refused to negotiate CF deal, then its down to TBB leaders playing a risky game, as chance is enemy will come knocking again to make sure TBB isn't a risk in the near future.
^LollllQuote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
This is just lame, tbb knows they ****ed up and got punished. No need to continue the punishment now. They have a lot of disadvantages. Now let cr and tbb fight t out. The punishment is beyond the crime now
@Bart
"There is 0 proof that TBB cheated."
Seriously, are you gonna join the likes of herp, sarcasm, ed, n00bs in denial ? Are you trying to tell me that Bishop erasing 4 ww is equal with "0 proof that TBB cheated" ?
A) TBB cheated and Bishop punished them; conclusion : TBB are cheats.
B) TBB didn't cheated and Bishop punished them; conclusion : Bishop is a cheat.
Tell me, Bart, which one of those above is true, A or B ?
The others failed hard to answer such basic question. I think you have what it takes, don't let me down.
uh uh! i know this one! It's A! i won't even use Joker for this question. My final answer is, A. TBB are cheatersQuote:
Originally Posted by jacko
Thank you Aranfein. Yes I was monarch and steward for many ages, and you are right I would not involve my kingdom in any shadiness. I learned a lot from people like yourself who were cool enough to offer advice after smashing us, and even though I learned some shady tactics that were used against my kingdom, I chose to never use them. Did I trade land to growth kingdoms for gold? Yes, but I learned it was an acceptable practice used by most growth and warring kingdoms. If I am wrong, let me know because from what I have heard it is done quite often, and probably done by the kingdoms that are destroying TBB right now.
TBB did not time their WD and did not have their attackers +4 hours. They wd in minimum time. They were not in the best of shape going into the war with CR, and were in even worse shape coming out of the war. CR grabbed intel and waved TBB, stole gold, food and runes, and then waved TBB AFTER they just beat them in war. You can say they were justified because they did not get enough out of the war and they wanted more, I still call that ****play. I have had plenty of kingdoms actually time their wd's against me and +4 hour their attacks before they wd and I never went after any of them (unless they stole science points). We all have our opinions of what is acceptable and unacceptable behavior, and I will respect your opinion even while arguing mine.
What everyone seems to forget it CR knew was getting aid. They were gathering intel, and knew the chained provinces were exploring and training. Any fool would know they were getting their GC from somewhere. They still thought they could beat TBB which is why they waved. For two days it was an even match, but then CR made a HUGE mistake of razing people in TBB while the monarch of TBB ordered massacres. They also made the mistake of tanking the Gold dragon, while TBB killed their sapphire in less than an hour. Their final mistake was dragging on the war, losing even more honor and acres instead of WD as soon as the winner was obvious like the Monarch of TBB did. The Monarch of TBB totally outplayed CR in that second war and it bothered CR so badly that they THEN started screaming cheat and called in their buddies from FS to team up on TBB for the "good of Utopia" lol
I agree with you when you say Bishop's punishment for TBB having one province in their kingdom that used a proxy was a little harsh. I can understand how people can think there was more to it than that, but until Bishop comes out and says it I will just assume that was all there was to it. Losing the war wins was no big deal to me, cause it does not change the fact that we have won 6/7 wars this age. Being labeled a cheater is unacceptable to me, so I asked the monarch of TBB if he used a multi to start a war. He said no. Since the monarch of TBB has showed nothing but honesty, class and respect since I have known him, I chose to believe him. If I hadn't I would have left, and I am sure some of my friends from Warrior's Oath would have left with me. All I know is what I have seen, and in the short time I have been with TBB I have seen nothing but fair play, and great wars. Every war but 2 has been arranged, and terms have always been honored. That was what I was looking for in an elite kingdom, and I could not ask for more than that.
CR tried to bully TBB and they got punched in the mouth. You all should be applauding TBB for this instead of condemning them.
Dean21, I would suggest calling a friend, or use 50/50, the audience seems divided so don't waste that life line.
Its a nice war record indeed, but if half is based on shady play it puts a sour taste in most peoples mouths, I won't judge TBB as i got no evidence or have seen none, other then whats been posted in this thread from both sides, but out from that i formed an opinion.
A proxy doesn't have to be down to LS either, any given province of the 25 could have wanted a good start or whatever, TBB loves wars and likely would have accepted their good fortune to get a war, can you blame TBB as a KD for that? not really but punishment is fair enough for 1 player doing something wrong, as it benefitted everyone in the KD. (mind you not saying that is how it happened, just giving an example).
Q: Was TBB still in war range when war finished?
Q: Did TBB have chance to negotiate new terms to secure a CF that didn't involve a B2B?
It sounds like the diplo was badly handled, whether its all down to TBB i don't know, as i know CR can be extremely hard to negotiate with once they dig heels in, but sometimes you just got accept you were in a bad position and handled a few things badly that lead to it.
Last I checked TBB never apologized for cheating. Just a bunch of stupid excuses and wild accusation thrown around at people including Bishop. Also let's not forget all the insults thrown at FS for no reason. TBB made this a 2 vs 1 conflict. Instead of working on a cf with FS they just throw insults at them. I say turn them all green and hopefully they learn their lesson or disband.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spice
Three n00bs from TBB are the only ones in here to doubt Bishop's decision; Bart is yet to answer A or B, so we'll know soon if they're gonna remain 3 or become 4. Either way, no one else questions Bishop's decision; in that regard, your statement "the audience seems divided" is very far from reality, in my opinion. The audience seems very much decided, read carefully all 53 pages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Also, "I won't judge TBB as i got no evidence or have seen none" goes in the same category with Bart's ""There is 0 proof that TBB cheated."
LOL, I guess Bishop erasing 4 ww is = 0 (zero) evidence, right ?
I dont know wghat the f*** are you on ... but if you can hook me up with your guy i'd appreciate it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Ed
You got fed 300 frikin milion gold ... thats like 3kgpa, at average 400 g per elite thats 7.5 epa for your entire kingdom, or 17 specs.
Outplayed ? gtfo
The answer to your questions is: Neither. You posed a loaded question based on suspect word-of-mouth information. Good lord, logic and reasoning really isn't that difficult. I find it hilarious you are still blaming TBB and Bart for all of this, when there is literally nothing you can do to justify a 3v1 gangbang razekill operation that's happening right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by jacko
Edit: And there's Citadela with the blatant refusal to use accurant values yet again. You guys really do not give any ****s whatsoever about factual analysis of situations based on empirical evidence. Thank god none of you are running for Congress or decide what my life insurance policy rate is. Scary to think of how ridiculous it could get when people with zero critical reasoning functionality get in charge.
Have they admitted that it was wrong and offered to rectify the situation and compensate CR appropriately? If the answer is no then that compensation needs to be torn from them by force with sufficient overkill to discourage a repetition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta
So as long as TBB are still fighting back and aren't backing down and admitting their wrong then punishment needs continue until they are unable to fight back to protect the parties participating in the punishment.
Yes proportionality is a thing, but going by forum they still seem to be defiant, and then in order to protect those helping from TBB pouncing on them TBB needs to be disabled. As long as they aren't backing down there's no other way to go forward.
No it's very easy to justify, TBB ****played CR and gained unfairly from that ****play, so it needs to be negated in sufficient force to discourage repetitions, and as long as TBB is defiant then there's no other way to end this other than disabling TBB completely, which means 25 green provinces. Ideally the punishment should be far less but that hinges on TBB backing downQuote:
Originally Posted by HerpNDerp