I always notice that when I find Korp, Squee, Aranfein, and other people usually at odds agreeing, generally the truth is not far off from that point of agreement.
Just an observation....
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I always notice that when I find Korp, Squee, Aranfein, and other people usually at odds agreeing, generally the truth is not far off from that point of agreement.
Just an observation....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
Thats right you never had a yr 2 or the yr 10. The only reason you got a CF at all was BOUR. BB was more than ready to train and wave you. Im done spelling it out for you all the denial is just ridiculous. Let someone who actually knows the timeline and what happen speak. You apparently know absolutely less then those looking in whcih is really really sad.
I never said they had Mithras.. and no matter how much i disagree with Squee he is right in what hes pointing out to you.
- They wanted YR2, which you counter offered as YR10 yes? okay now thats established..
- After razes they had to give you a far better deal then they otherwise would have yes?
- You refused to acknowledge of knowing Bour yes?
- They wanted you to help take care of Bour, which you refused yes?
- They found out Bour was friends of Emeriti, you then offered to change cf deal to whatever they requested yes?
- By this time they were planning revenge so the deal offered or the compensation made was not going to stop them, but why would they decline to either, so they took the compensation and took a deal they knew meant very little as they were going to break it anyway, had they not taken the deal Emeriti would have known something was up, which by all accounts from these forums they did not want you to know...
- BB dealbreak and wave as you are warring Pyro, yes?
- Emeriti call in friends to fight yes?
- BB calls in Freeakstyle and a few others, and the recruiting begins for more allies on both sides yes?
- Emeriti appears to have lost the "awar" but refuse to agree to BBs demands without BB accepting terms from Emeriti yes?
- BB refuse terms from Emeriti, because they are winning/have won "awar" so why would they agree to any terms Emeriti tries to put up, which they are in no position to inforce/demand.
So now all this forum action because Emeriti wants to go over the same things to try and get people to see what BB is doing is wrong, while BB dont really need to convince anyone as its clear to see that Emeriti made an earlier bad judgement call, which they should apologise for *see section BoH, for how to give an apology(Corrected to BoH as Nesta says it was BoH).
Facts are, no matter how many times anyone in Emeriti posts the same lines over and over again, it will NOT be considered "true" because people have made up their minds, yes it sucks and BB might have overreacted in form of scale this has been played out in, but even if you didnt do all the "coincidences" it will not change peoples minds, i know it sucks but thats the way it goes, 1 party is right and 1 is wrong, usually its the stronger thats right, in this case its BB.
YES YES YES YES YES!Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Omg I love you Aranfein :)
Except sample apology was BoH, not Section Kuhan :(
Lol, nah, not so mush....but hai to you too :PQuote:
Originally Posted by 13nesta13
R.I.P. Utopian ethics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
After Bours razes BB got the blank question as to what they needed to fight without disadvantage. This means that they could choose the time. They could also get acres from both bour and Emeriti.
BB was in no way at a disadvantage after the razes since all of that would be compensated. As we all know, BB choose to not go that route but instead dealbreak, fight 2 on 1 and hit into war. That put EMERITI at a severe disadvantage for our fight through foul play.
No, BB could have taken any of the deals I proposed that would have lefted them stronger than before and not give any deal to Emeriti at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Wrong again, Flogger knew who I was when he made the deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
So basicly, when one of the ex-player of your competitor want to secure a CF with you, its okay to dealbreak and gangbang your competitor?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
The demands that are made by Flogger have been stupidly unreasonnable since the beginning of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Emeriti already apologized and I also already apologized for what REALLY happened. What they want now is apologies for the delusionnal lies they believe. I can't speak for Emeriti, but I know I will never apologize for something I didn't do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
The notion that BB is under pressure somehow is not true in any way. Bour offered the acres back and more right after he made the razes.
Palem im pretty sure the KDs on BB's side says they uphold the ethics.
One thing i dont understand and im hoping anyone in Emeriti can help me with is this.. The logs from your LS Channel shows atleast some of you are against hitting into BB, but when its suggested Bour does it, noone speaks out against it? If its so against your ethics why was noone saying "Damn Bour see if you can get the CF before they farm you, but dont hit into a EoWCF, it goes against all we believe in and we just voted against it as a kingdom"..
Instead all i can see is that Emeriti players are against it being themselves as they knew the implications of doing so, but why on earth did you not advice your friend/ally against doing it? - This would have been the perfect time to show game ethics, but instead you let an ally do it and even advice him to do so, while refusing to acknowledge you knew who it was? That seems extremely unethical and pretty lame to me.
Bour i doubt its you they want an apology from, and yes flogger knew who you were when accepting the deal, i said as much, but by this time it didnt matter to him, did you even read my post? you take snips out but comments underneath has hardly any relevance to what i point out, you just post jibberish under which hardly makes sense to my post or the quotes you take out. (Read my whole post and stop taking snips out)
Again Mithras & Bour, you dont get it, the compensation is irrelevant as they were pissed off and wanted revenge.
'sigh'. Seems so obvious as an 'outsider' to this whole situation that there was some serious over reaction and unethical play to an event that even if it did happen, should not have ended up with dealbreaks and gangbanging. (never really heard of abs or whatever the other alliance was before this)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
I do hope next age things return to normal though. Maybe even this age.
If you read the logs posted earlier you will see that there are three persons in Emeriti LS chan that argues against bour razing. 1 Person tells Bour to raze. This same person also argues against the razes. So this idea that "emeriti sent bour after BB" is faulty at best, malevelant at worst.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
And to say that compensation doesn't matter is like saying the punishment should not fit the crime. Emeriti offered to make things right. BB was not interested in right. They prefered the dealbreak, 2 on 1 and hitting into war.
once the razes were done... the damage was done. The position was lost because they have to change. Again giving the land back isn't going to help them when they lost the ability to pump on it and are now put into a position to give a yr 4 CF when yr 2 or no offer was on the table. Stop the circles its embarrassing
Man Mithras you keep repeating the same over and over again, we read the damn logs, and at no point did someone tell bour NOT to raze into EoWCF, and as far as i can see Bour IS being told to raze if no answer, so you saying he was adviced against it makes absolutely no sense, and makes you appear like your lying.
And no the compensation didnt matter as they wanted revenge, why is that so hard to understand? seriously is it that hard to fathom that they did not want you getting away with advicing Bour to raze and then denying you even knew who he was.
Simple, they wanted revenge and they were going to get it for your unethical/questionable advice/play. (dont tell me you cant understand that?)
The offer was not just land. It was the time of their choosing and the terms of their choosing. If you claim they can't work with that to their advantage then you demote flogger from an utopian savant to a village idiot. I for one does not agree with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Squee311
So why is that Emiriti scared of losing Bour(before the razes to BB? Was there an agreement between Bour and Emiriti that Bour's province and KD will grow then they will have a FW so that Emiriti will gain much land?
If you read the logs and can't find anyone aginst the razes then you need to read them again. Also you will find that no one tells Bour what to do. He is not on remote control, he makes his own choises. Emeriti offered advise, some admittedly bad while some were alot better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slickdevil
There were no deal in place between Emeriti and Bour other than that we had a cf. Emeriti was critical towards bour growing so big, putting him in a position were he could be attacked by BB for very important acres. Acres that Emeriti could not take themselves due to our cf with bour
I see Zauper objecting and someone thinking "yea thats probs bad, lets not"
Again yes Bour was TOLD to raze, "If they dont reply within 3 hours, start razing" I dont get how you can leave that out and completely ignore the fact... As for compensation, STOP mentioning it...The damage was done and they had NO intentions of letting you get away with it. The compensation might have been fair had BB not wanted revenge, but they wanted revenge so the compensation is of little value no matter what was offered.
Mithras, you might think you offered BB enough to put them in a better position, but don't state it like it's a fact. For the sake of this damn argument again, let's just temporarily assume that there needs to be no punitive measure taken against Emeriti for suggesting Bour raze, and say that the goal is to put BB right in a tangible sense:
It's pretty hard to quantify the impact of having to train and convert early in eowcf. The impact is even bigger considering it was on the biggest provs! Science, gold, wizards, and so on... you all (in Emeriti) have consistently seemed so confident and sure that whatever you offered would put BB in a better position than they were before. How can you know this so certainly? And how is it your call to make? I know you're aware that when you're going to war, prep time is the most important factor. What good is that land if their WPA is inadequate because they lost 36 hours at 60% guilds? Furthermore, you pretend like giving them more time is a good thing, but what you're also doing by giving them more time is giving YOURSELF time to pump science as sages. Be real and tell me Mithras who gets the better of a longer CF, the cleric kingdom with like 2k extra acres or the sage kd?
You guys really do need to go read Kuhan's thread again. The time to spin this a clever way has passed - ASF did all he could in that regard. Now, every time you come back here arguing the same stuff over and over again, it just sounds like you think that what you did was acceptable. Any empathy for you guys just goes out the window when I read "BUT WE OFFERED THEM 3X LAND!" for the 99th time. To say that BB wasn't at a disadvantage after the razes just makes you sound either braindead or disingenuous.
Stop that bull**** ... seriously stop it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
They were against EMERITI hitting into eowcf, they were NOT against Bours hits.
NOBODY said a SINGLE WORD against Bours hits. Cerberus stated he is unsure about it and jdorje reassured him and Cerberus agreed with him 1 minute later and gears were put in motion.
Just face the fact we are able to read, stop acting like we are all brainded slugs and you can state anything enough time and it will become true eventually.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetley
I can be so certain because I'm aware of BBs skill level wich is very high. The acres they were offered put to use by skillful players would be more than enough to win the war, not to mention the other things that BB could have asked for.
You say that the time to spin this clevery is over and I could not agree more. This thing has spun so far out of proportion that no one even notice that the pure and simple base reason for this GB never existed. So it's time to stop spinning stories, read the logs and wake the f*ck up.
Nothing of that is bull****. You are just either to lazy to read the logs or you are so stuck in your mindset that Emeriti is so evil that you can't imagine something else. Look at the facts. Take them in. Make yourself an informed opinion and you will literaly feel how good it feels to not be fooled by this spun out conspiracy theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Enlighten me than, show me where do 3 persons "argue against Bours razing".Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
I challange you to show me that.
If you don't want to see it I can't help you. But I'll copy the passagesQuote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
zauper 6:15 PM
I don't love waving into eow?
Is it the example you want to set for acceptable play?I don't...
jdorje 6:17 PM
not really the example we want to set for acceptable play, no
cerberusv6.66 6:18 PM
eh
not sure how I feel about that
Is there nothing to be said for the only guy to object had only played in your kingdom for a week?
Dorje and Cerb has been around for alot longer.
Liar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
6:15 and 6:17 lines were referencing to Emeriti waving into a BB eowcf which was talked about at that point.
Bour hitting was first time mentioned AFTER those comments.
You don't say...Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein
Hard to believe the kds on BB's side aren't sending PMs along with the razes that say "I'm so sorry about this. I know we're wrong, but we do need to raze you."
They clearly state that they are against waving into eowcf? What did bour do? Buy a charter trip to Mallorca? If he didn't hit into eowcf then wth is this travesty?Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
You are right Palem. Individual provs have appologized for following kd orders. It's a bit sad :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
OMG THAT IS SUCH A LOAD OF BS!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
The skill level is irrelevant because if it had never happened, they would be even better off because of their skill level. The skill level absent injury and with injury and with injury plus some remedial measures is the same. They still would ahve been better without the raze! GOOD LORD! I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU ARETRYING TO MAKE THAT ARGUMENT as if BB suddenly GAINED skills as a result of the razes. WHAT A LOAD OF UTTER BS!
Your not worth my time any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
Ok, skill level is irrelevant for how you uses your resources in preperation for a fight, I'm with you there. Wait... What? Ok... So if you take in 2500 acres and put them to use that is useless to a skilled kd? Yeah... Lets go with that... No...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
As I said. Can't help you since your mind is closed to facts. Only thing that matters is the great satan and your crusade. gg QQQuote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
When does your shift end? I want ASF back with his mantras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
My shift ends when the forum is purged of BS. Live with it.
When the #4 kingdom offers the #2 kingdom to repair any damage done to them when they razed ~1.5% of their land and that they say they are willing to give acres, extra acres, gcs, releasing wizards for LL so the other kingdom can put the acres where they want, offer a "fake hostile" and end it with a "propose whatever you judge would be adequate reparation except a farmwar", only a fool believes that the damage can't be repaired and a relative position can't be strengtened.
On the throne one has many worries and remorse is the one that weigh the least am i right...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
You show none of it and as far as i am concerned i hope you get killed this age, next age and every age to come until you own up for the **** you and your KD done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
Mithras, I don't remember you being this slow back when we used to play together. Keep up bro.
If I have 2500 acres, I can pump it a certain amount based on how good I am.
If I have 2000 acres, I can pump it a certain amount based on how good I am.
If I have 2700 acres, start a pump build, I get hit to 2000 acres and convert to war build, then I get 500 acres back and then I start to pump again..... I am WORSE OFF despite the same skill level than if I had never lost the 2500 acres. I lost minimum 40 hrs of pump time!
STOP PRETENDING TO BE DENSE!