How did USA become such a messed up country?

Stupid things have been said.

#1 Republics are not mob rule.
The only time the public gets to vote on laws is to approve a change to the constitution. Aside from that they never vote or have their opinions voice aside through their elected officials who rarely vote on anything the public is concerned about besides a few trivial hot-button issues like abortion and gay marriage. Everything else they vote on is beyond the public care or understanding due to their lack of care and poor education.

#2 The US is no longer a Republic; of the people, by the people and for the people.
"A republic is a form of government in which the country is considered a "public matter" (Latin: res publica), not the private concern or property of the rulers, and where offices of states are subsequently directly or indirectly elected." Since 1819 Corporations have been given the right to petition the government like a normal citizen through donation, legal suit and protest. Slowly since this inception presidential elections have become more similar to appointments meaning, the outcome of the election is predetermined. Today elections are predetermined. Not only was there a smear campaign to prevent Paul from being taken seriously but when he was poised to win IOWA ~30,000 votes across 3 counties went uncounted. The republican election commissioner later resigned in disgrace. There have also been studies on the irregularity between paper and electronic voting. See Links below.

3. as off 2010 there are 18% are non-theist.
A survey of 100,000 random Americans concluded this. The previous survey in 2000 showed 8%. That's more than a 100% rise. Religious trolls take note your days are numbered and I personally couldn't be happier about that. Thanks to the rise in literacy and rational questioning more and more people read the bible and i can think of no better tool of atheist conversion.

4. poor people don't work hard; that's why they are poor.
Most poor people I know work 60 or more hours a week at two or more jobs that pay less than 10$ per hour. The reason the middle class and the poor are merging is simple and has absolutely nothing to do with work ethic. Due to inflation and increased taxation the cost of living is steadily rising. If you look at the average wage over the last 100 years you will find that there has not been a proportional raise in wages since 1971. Quite simply, it costs more to live and instead of corporations sharing their profits through wages and benefits we find that they have simply increased their profit margins and left workers behind.

Ill edit this later and add more citations + criticisms later.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executi...egal_conflicts
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv
Princeston Study On diebold voting machine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZWjobaYAuM
http://www.rnla.org/votefraud.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood
http://euro.ecom.cmu.edu/people/facu...amos/paper.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

Stopped reading at ... "butt hurt retards"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rockie Cantais

LOL, silly Europeans. Can we send the Liberals back to you? America is a Republic not a Democracy, Majority rule doesn't apply. The Constitution is the Law of the land not the majority of the people. Still sometimes I think the Article of Confederation would be better, not to be confused with the Confederate States of America Constitution.

Here is a Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVuUr...eature=related

---

more like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRtlUi3OJ_c

5. Why is it wrong for republicans to commit war crimes, but its OK for democrats?
Where are the "liberals" now? Why is it wrong for bush to invade Iraq b.c the leader is "bad" and ok for Obama to blow up Libya for the same purpose. Why is it wrong for Bush to condone torture camps buts its OK for Obama? Why was it wrong for Bush to imprison/torture US citizens w.o trial but its OK for Obama to literally murder US citizens w.o trial; including children who have not even been accused of a crime.

Does your morality really depend on whether or not you belong to the party in charge? They are both war criminals. In 50 years you will have to live with the shame of supporting them. When the Empire falls these leaders will be seen in the same light as Hitler; and your grandchildren will ask you how you could have been so wrong.

Up Vote

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sticky

more like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRtlUi3OJ_c

---

http://topics.nytimes.com/topics/ref...aki/index.html

America is awesome. America hasn't gotten worse, its gotten better. There is a lot of complaining about what we don't have here, but our 40 million poor have it better off the most of the world.

Most people who complain aren't even that bad off, just unhappy that their candidate didn't win. They then complain about how bad it has gotten as a way of expressing that unhappiness. When you choose to put down the US form the outside you're just yapping. Funny how the originator of this thread got all uppity when their own country was put down in response to the fact that they slammed ours! LOL Stoffi, don't dish it if you can't take it.

US has objectively gotten worse since Ronnie Raygun got a bunch of suckers to buy into his BS in the 80s. It sucks ass for someone who's stuck here more than anyone else.

There is no meaningful difference between the democratic and republican parties. I can support neither. The only differences at all are the trivial social issues they attempt to but rarely ever legislate. These are red herrings used to distract the public from the egregious war crimes committed by both sides. I use the terms war and war crimes as they are defined by international law to which the US has signed in agreement; all citations below. Though the US media does not use terms accurately; in the last 10 years we have started illegal wars in Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Pakistan, Iran and Syria. In the past we have murdered and rigged elections to secure corporate contracts. Obama can now “legally” murder or imprison indefinitely anyone, US citizen or not with out trial or public notice. You can literally be black bagged, dragged from your home and murdered. There is no need to notify your family; you are just gone. We have fallen from a nation opposed to tyranny to the most expansive and tyrannical empire to ever exist.

Since 2007, we have been funding illegal operations in Iran. We have destroyed property using sophisticated computer viruses and assassinated scientists and political leaders. Since the 1970s to present We have armed al qaeda as its influence spread from Bosnia to Afghanistan, to Libya and to Syria; with the latest and greatest NATO personnel weaponry. In the recent past we murdered the democratically elected leaders of Libya, DR Congo, Vietnam, El Salvador and Chile and replaced them with brutal military dictators who went on to murder thousands and in sum, millions of their own citizens. That is just a to name a few of the most documented cases. The CIA is on the record rigging elections in over 20 countries. Here in the USA there has been congressional testimonies and academically controlled studies which prove massive electronic election fraud took place in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012.

Candidates have no legitimacy. Obama and Bush both ran their 1st campaigns on anti-war platforms. Obama even claimed he would declassify all bush era documents and end CIA prisons like GITMO. Instead he has increased funding, codified the civil rights abuses of the Bush era and added people like wiki leaks Julian Assange to his new International Kill Lists whereby he claims the right to murder or imprison indefinitely, anyone with out trial; US citizen or not.

Meanwhile the population at home is being driven slowly into poverty; of property, education and morality. The proportional wage (wage adjusted for inflation) has not risen since 1971, meanwhile corporate profits have soared along with the cost of living. The U.S. is in the middle of a great depression, annually 14.5% of the population goes hungry and countless are homeless. Unlike US gov't figures; who exclude those out of work for more than 6 months from their unemployment figures the real unemployment is 34%. If it were not for the benefits of better farming, transport, refining, and communications technology the suffering would surpass the depression of 1929 by a wide margin. The cost of education has increased by more than 500% in 25 years. Meanwhile the quality has plummeted. I can tell you what passes for history in this day and age is laughable from an academic perspective. Narrative survey history has replaced legitimate primary source based historical analysis in most schools k-undergrad college. You pretty much have to go for Masters or better before you get anything besides watered down propaganda. There is not enough time or room in this thread to address the collapse of American morality but I ask you to simply turn on your television or radio and observe with an open mind and you will see my point clearly.

America as it was taught to you in history books is dead. It has been dead for a long time. There are a number of dates I could site as to when the change began but it is more accurately understood as a gradual process that has taken the better part of 200 years to complete. I think Thomas Jefferson said it best “Periodic revolution, at least once every 20 years is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.” To those of you who still disagree and think we live in a great and moral nation I say to you “so did the Germans, so did the Russians.” Belief does not make reality, I urge you to read the documents and turn off the hypnotic propaganda you receive via television. Come to your own opinion after assessing the facts for yourself. Don't let some suit with a 7 figure salary discover the world for you. You are free to make up your own mind if you choose.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1320515.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...4_gallery.html
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/
DieBold testimony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs&1
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electio...rable-to-fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
http://books.google.com/books?id=naO...20iran&f=false
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11...est-attack-on/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeles..._United_States
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/...nger_facts.htm
http://www.inflation.us/
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html
http://killinghope.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ary_operations
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...trike_near.php
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012.../pers-d05.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_...change_actions
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

Unemployment has fallen for the first time in 4 years apparently... so hopefully things kick start and start getting better

the US gov't only tracks a very narrowly defined portion of the workers when generating those figures. I'm quite certain those numbers had more to do with the election than anything else.

Ridiculousness incarnate

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Crazyguy

Most people who complain aren't even that bad off, just unhappy that their candidate didn't win. They then complain about how bad it has gotten as a way of expressing that unhappiness. When you choose to put down the US form the outside you're just yapping. Funny how the originator of this thread got all uppity when their own country was put down in response to the fact that they slammed ours! LOL Stoffi, don't dish it if you can't take it.

---

I wish that i lived in the U.S, i hope to do so. I do not know much at all about the politics but apart from anything else America has spacecraft. Nuff said.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thephatman

There is no meaningful difference between the democratic and republican parties. I can support neither. The only differences at all are the trivial social issues they attempt to but rarely ever legislate. These are red herrings used to distract the public from the egregious war crimes committed by both sides. I use the terms war and war crimes as they are defined by international law to which the US has signed in agreement; all citations below. Though the US media does not use terms accurately; in the last 10 years we have started illegal wars in Afghanistan, Yemen, Libya, Pakistan, Iran and Syria. In the past we have murdered and rigged elections to secure corporate contracts. Obama can now ?legally? murder or imprison indefinitely anyone, US citizen or not with out trial or public notice. You can literally be black bagged, dragged from your home and murdered. There is no need to notify your family; you are just gone. We have fallen from a nation opposed to tyranny to the most expansive and tyrannical empire to ever exist.

Since 2007, we have been funding illegal operations in Iran. We have destroyed property using sophisticated computer viruses and assassinated scientists and political leaders. Since the 1970s to present We have armed al qaeda as its influence spread from Bosnia to Afghanistan, to Libya and to Syria; with the latest and greatest NATO personnel weaponry. In the recent past we murdered the democratically elected leaders of Libya, DR Congo, Vietnam, El Salvador and Chile and replaced them with brutal military dictators who went on to murder thousands and in sum, millions of their own citizens. That is just a to name a few of the most documented cases. The CIA is on the record rigging elections in over 20 countries. Here in the USA there has been congressional testimonies and academically controlled studies which prove massive electronic election fraud took place in 2000, 2004, 2008 and 2012.

Candidates have no legitimacy. Obama and Bush both ran their 1st campaigns on anti-war platforms. Obama even claimed he would declassify all bush era documents and end CIA prisons like GITMO. Instead he has increased funding, codified the civil rights abuses of the Bush era and added people like wiki leaks Julian Assange to his new International Kill Lists whereby he claims the right to murder or imprison indefinitely, anyone with out trial; US citizen or not.

Meanwhile the population at home is being driven slowly into poverty; of property, education and morality. The proportional wage (wage adjusted for inflation) has not risen since 1971, meanwhile corporate profits have soared along with the cost of living. The U.S. is in the middle of a great depression, annually 14.5% of the population goes hungry and countless are homeless. Unlike US gov't figures; who exclude those out of work for more than 6 months from their unemployment figures the real unemployment is 34%. If it were not for the benefits of better farming, transport, refining, and communications technology the suffering would surpass the depression of 1929 by a wide margin. The cost of education has increased by more than 500% in 25 years. Meanwhile the quality has plummeted. I can tell you what passes for history in this day and age is laughable from an academic perspective. Narrative survey history has replaced legitimate primary source based historical analysis in most schools k-undergrad college. You pretty much have to go for Masters or better before you get anything besides watered down propaganda. There is not enough time or room in this thread to address the collapse of American morality but I ask you to simply turn on your television or radio and observe with an open mind and you will see my point clearly.

America as it was taught to you in history books is dead. It has been dead for a long time. There are a number of dates I could site as to when the change began but it is more accurately understood as a gradual process that has taken the better part of 200 years to complete. I think Thomas Jefferson said it best ?Periodic revolution, at least once every 20 years is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government.? To those of you who still disagree and think we live in a great and moral nation I say to you ?so did the Germans, so did the Russians.? Belief does not make reality, I urge you to read the documents and turn off the hypnotic propaganda you receive via television. Come to your own opinion after assessing the facts for yourself. Don't let some suit with a 7 figure salary discover the world for you. You are free to make up your own mind if you choose.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1320515.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...4_gallery.html
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/
DieBold testimony http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs&1
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Electio...rable-to-fraud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet
http://books.google.com/books?id=naO...20iran&f=false
http://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/11...est-attack-on/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeles..._United_States
http://www.worldhunger.org/articles/...nger_facts.htm
http://www.inflation.us/
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html
http://killinghope.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...ary_operations
http://www.longwarjournal.org/archiv...trike_near.php
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2012.../pers-d05.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_...change_actions
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html

---

There's a lot of sense here and in your former post. The US is not a real republic anymore; some very rich and powerful men pretty much control everything and what would be considered serious corruption in other countries is fully allowed in the US. Lobbies, companies bribing presidents to vote in their favour, etc.
In addition, the two party system effectively limits a real democratic process.


The political system in the US needs reform and quick. The Congress is no longer working at all, the President is paid off by big corps, you HAVE TO be rich to become president, etc. Meanwhile, USA's middle class is sinking down into poverty and the working class is becoming even poorer. Americans don't understand that their people need higher wages to buy goods and in that way stimulate the economy. If everyone's too poor to buy anything, then nothing will be bought and companies will go bankrupt.


However, you are wrong at one point. Taxation is not a big reason why people are poor in the US. Taxes are very low and always have been. In Norway, you pay around 36% tax on an average salary of 80000 dollars, and 47% on everything above. In addition, everything you buy is heavily taxed.



In the US, you can still potentially become nearly everything you want, but it is a lot harder than doing the same in most other Western countries. Social mobility in the US is low.

I am glad you agree. The political scene in USA has become rather cartoonish over the last 12 years and it saddens me to see people divided over imaginary party lines. However I'm not sure I made the point that income tax is responsible for poverty in USA. I did make a point about the inflation tax combined with a lack of proportional wages maybe you confused that with income tax. What i said was that Americans have not had a proportional raise in wages to compete with the raise in living costs since 1971. "You might be thinking hey, i got a raise in wages last quarter. This guy is full of ****" Essentially 2 forces combined, 1 Inflation (the devaluation of the currency aka Reduction in buying power per dollar) 2 Corporate Greed, you see in the past as inflation increases wages went up b.c the dollars have been devalued so more of them must be paid in order to = the same value. For the mean (average) this balance has not been maintained since 1971. Meaning the average joe worker has taken home less real value every year since 1971. When you consider that this average includes stock brokers and CEO's you can realize how much less the normal man has really taken home each year.

In the USA you can become anything you want if you have enough money. If you are entering the work force now I suggest you become a criminal b.c your 100% ****ed getting a proper job in today's market with out a science degree or 20 years experience doing the job already.

Also Astronomer, America "had" spacecraft. I was all for American Empire so long as it meant we got sweet space toys. Nasa has been slowly destroyed by the last 3 presidents. Soon all they will do is operate telescopes and robots. I have hopes that the private US space industry will have success. But i fear that people are too narrow minded to see the strategic benefits of space travel. Im sure when boats were a new invention there were plenty of nay Sayers talking about how we should stop wasting energy making these pointless boats when there are hungry people in the tribe. Not realizing ofc that boats can be used to fish..

These same ppl don't understand that Moons can be farmed. Asteroids mined...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by thephatman

I am glad you agree. The political scene in USA has become rather cartoonish over the last 12 years and it saddens me to see people divided over imaginary party lines. However I'm not sure I made the point that income tax is responsible for poverty in USA. I did make a point about the inflation tax combined with a lack of proportional wages maybe you confused that with income tax. What i said was that Americans have not had a proportional raise in wages to compete with the raise in living costs since 1971. "You might be thinking hey, i got a raise in wages last quarter. This guy is full of ****" Essentially 2 forces combined, 1 Inflation (the devaluation of the currency aka Reduction in buying power per dollar) 2 Corporate Greed, you see in the past as inflation increases wages went up b.c the dollars have been devalued so more of them must be paid in order to = the same value. For the mean (average) this balance has not been maintained since 1971. Meaning the average joe worker has taken home less real value every year since 1971. When you consider that this average includes stock brokers and CEO's you can realize how much less the normal man has really taken home each year.

In the USA you can become anything you want if you have enough money. If you are entering the work force now I suggest you become a criminal b.c your 100% ****ed getting a proper job in today's market with out a science degree or 20 years experience doing the job already.

Also Astronomer, America "had" spacecraft. I was all for American Empire so long as it meant we got sweet space toys. Nasa has been slowly destroyed by the last 3 presidents. Soon all they will do is operate telescopes and robots. I have hopes that the private US space industry will have success. But i fear that people are too narrow minded to see the strategic benefits of space travel. Im sure when boats were a new invention there were plenty of nay Sayers talking about how we should stop wasting energy making these pointless boats when there are hungry people in the tribe. Not realizing ofc that boats can be used to fish..

These same ppl don't understand that Moons can be farmed. Asteroids mined...

---

I probably misread on the taxation part. ^^ Wages haven't kept up indeed, whilst the rich have gotten a lot richer.


As for NASA and space, unless we get out into space and colonise planets within x(could be 50, could be 500000 years) amount of years, we are dead. An asteroide WILL collide with us, huuuuuge vulcanos will erupt and give us 1000 years of winter. But also, we will in the end be like the natives of Easter Island. They chopped down all the trees and found out they had no way to get out, and their population dwindled because without natural resources(wood), they could only support a certain life style. We will too run out of coal, oil, Thorium, iron, metals, Uranium, etc etc. These things don't last forever.

We need to get out there, get a colony on the Moon or Mars, travel to other solar systems. It may seem impossible right now, but we need small steps. Our world today is just as unimaginable for people 200 years ago as colonising other solar systems is to us today. But it WILL happen. And sooner rather than later. :)