if the number of hits we made against said kd is also a confidential info, then i will gladly accept them not answering that question.. is it so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
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if the number of hits we made against said kd is also a confidential info, then i will gladly accept them not answering that question.. is it so?Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
You suck, not an argument, just a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
say goodbye to forums my friend, another one bites the dust!Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
Don't insult modsQuote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
Im sorry Bishop. I apologise most humbly. Not everyone can be a Viking. You are so right. End of discussion.
you have the number of hits made, just like you had the logs. You are just trying to be difficult because you know it's much harder to get information from a kingdom that no longer exists. You are speculating on that exact numbers and news cannot be found. Just like you did with the logs.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
But we all know, so you can't play that "oh I don't know" game that got you in this position in the first place.
when it first came up, if you had said, hey yea we had some disputed back then, but we came to an agreement to end it, iampost wouldnt have went digging up the logs. Instead you insisted on demanding to see proof while some of your kingdom mates called iampost a liar.
You will have to learn that this kind of behavior is getting you in trouble. Try honesty and frankness for a change. It's so much easier
once again mirana, you dont have a slightest clue what you are talking about.. we were called breaking deals while we had none, and only deal broken was their war agreement against us.. they claimed they are disbanding and everyone is inactive, but they kept army in/out on randoms for 48h or so, and suddenly they got waved & decided they are not disbanding anymore and willing to war again.. we have made a grand total of 7 hits against them, and i wouldnt stop at all if i hadnt found out later that our monarch had told them we wont hit them.. to sum it up, they ****played us & we ****played them back (yeah, 7 hits), we came to terms in the end and went to own ways..Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
lampost is still a liar for calling this a dealbreak (perhaps he means their own dealbreak), for calling this a gb (no comment) and claiming we have made them disband with our HUGE interference..
you are still a clueless whiner, jumping on every chance to paint fs in bad light, while you are the bad guyz here for hitting into war & killing provs, because we had 'differences' and had argued over forums.. if i had been hitting into wars with everyone i dont like or have differences with, i would have to spend my entire uto life hitting into ppl's wars, but you are a hypocrite & i dont expect you to understand the depth of the failure of your actions..
So FS being waved by a KD is now a "punishment"? Are you actually serious when you say that? If ED had of wanted to raze kill every prov in FS last age, then by the logic displayed here it would have been their right to do so, instead FS ate a few waves, ED got double hostiled and Pyro gained a bunch of land, while FS gained a CF saving their age, so once again I'll ask you what FS lost in this whole deal besides the land/honour ED had taken? They didn't even need to honour EDs tabled CF offer and give up any extra land/honour.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale
You come across as either naive of totally dumb, oh no FS got called out on the forums, do you actually think they give a **** about other peoples opinions on these forums vs. the prospect of having ED hit them for 2-3+ weeks like they did to ED the age before? Oh god Pyro took "public lashes", I have no idea what planet you're on, but none of them care less about the publicity. Let me ask you, if I or someone else says "Pale you're a noob", do you care? Does it wound and humiliate you, or do you think it's just some random person you don't know on the internet? So if you (likely) don't care what makes you think these KDs do?
You're delusional if you think any of the 3 KDs lost anything of worth over the ED incident last age. Pyro having to payback the acres/honour + compensation and FS being left to fight ED 1v1 would have been a somewhat "fair" outcome, rather than FS learning that if they run for help then they can just force CFs with other people.
=======
I'm aware of the logs, the short version is someone in ABS council said that if a prov wanted a CF they should OOW raze, that suggestion lead to a whole KD being Gbed and having to step out of #1 race, despite ASF making multiple offers on the forums of how they were willing to compensate the KDs involved. So when "Fair Play" are offered compensation for something a random person did on suggestion of a player, they're allowed to turn down offers and GB a KD out of the age, but when ED wants their honour back from the KD who instigated a double hostile on them then it's not allowed, a CF is enforced and ED have to try and get a few thousand honour back off provs giving like 20 honour a hit, seems legit.
As for Zauper I have no idea why CR would be involved, but in the ED case and the ABS case, clear evidence was presented, yet no-one can actually show SS leadership or even any players in there went and asked people to help. He can answer his own KDs actions if he feels like it.
Also FS did organise the double hostile on ED, they went to BB to ask for help and BB then asked Pyro to wave ED with some bull**** made up either by them or by FS. A random player in BB didn't just go to Pyro and say "hey double ED please", FS approached them for aid because they'd helped GB ABS. Answer me this, did ED get back all of the honour they lost to Pyro from BB? Also what the hell are you talking about that "it definitely was inappropriate for ED to do what they did", so you're saying ED wasn't allowed to wave another KD in the honour race (as FS have done this age)? FS had a CF offered to them in exchange for land/honour, they chose to decline it, so ED chose to take it by force. Something FS did to ED 2 ages ago and have done to SS this age (taking honour from weaker KD), yet you're telling us that EDs actions were inappropriate?
Here's the problem, there's a clear and patterned set of actions by Fair Play KDs, which are hypocritical in the extreme. Their KDs are allowed to "bully" others 1v1 but others aren't allowed to use size against them, if they want to GB a KD then they can do it on circumstantial evidence which wouldn't stand up to reasonable doubt checks, yet when they ****play other KDs we saw page after page of lies and denials over any wrong doing, until one of them screwed up and released logs.
Clearly you spent a long time investigating considering BB started razes into SS a few hours into war.
I'll repeat the above question, did ED get all the honour back from BB? Why was the honour not given from FS who asked BB for help as "punishment"? Why did Pyro get to keep everything they took rather than razing it off? Pretty sure Parth said ED had no choice, of course if Zauper wants to come and post that ED got all of their demands met, that they were reasonable and everyone was 100% happy then I guess we can drop it. I mean I assume ED would have got whatever they wanted after your 3 KDs built on the pillars of "fair play" decided to ****play them to save one of your KDs ages, there'd be no question about how humble you'd be knowing the hypocrisy in your actions and do everything in your power to put it right... Or not eh.Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
I said my opinion on a certain incident didn't matter, I know what I was told by leadership regarding the incident as well.
SF: Honestly, there wasn't a ton of discussion. I asked the three folks online what they wanted -- Helluva, Tadpole, and Parth. I'd say Tad was probably the main leader last age, but Parth is usually the main guy. Parth wanted revenge on FS (and Iampost -- the hope of everyone on the ED side involved was to fight FS again later in the age, the issue is that both sides wanted guarantees it would be fair, which would be hard considering feelings) for it.
No one (in ED that spoke with me) particularly cared about Pyro having had gained.
I'll be honest and tell you that there wasn't much discussion about the question of FS vs BB giving the honor. I went to them and said 'ED wants FS to give the honor that ED lost to pyro', and flogger said 'Can we give it instead, it would be easier for everyone?' I asked tadpole/helluva (parth was offline at this point), and they said sure that works.
So I would say that ED didn't have their demands met, but also didn't really ask for me (or they themselves) to advocate hard for FS to give the honor.
===============
As for why we're involved, it's simple:
GBing a kingdom for waving another kingdom outside of their declare range is a terrible precedent for the game. While I'd say Mirana has some valid gripes, there is sufficient evidence that SS and Ruthless coordinated their activities. That evidence has even been posted fairly publicly -- ingame messages from Ruthless' monarch claiming that they're coordinating a GB on FS with SS; Whatsapp channel logs with some of said coordination, etc. Circumstantially, the timing of razes beginning.
That there is additional evidence to the coordinated nature that is not being made publicly available is, frankly, irrelevant. The evidence absent it is quite compelling.
We're not exactly super involved. I think we've made a total of about 16 hits, with the last one being 49 hours ago.
Francis...an agreement to war is no more or less binding than an agreement not to hit.
So if you claim they broke their deal to war you then you most certainly had a deal that you wouldn't hit them.
The difference is that they a) asked before they "broke the deal" which you agreed, which makes the deal void and not broken. b)had good reason to back out of war because you yourself pointed out that at that time their nw was much smaller than yours.
Your kingdom a)did not inform them of hitting them into their hostile, in contrary you told them you would not, which represents a deal break. b) had no reason other than spitefulness for the db
did I mention you trying to twist the truth gets you in trouble?
Would you like to take JUST 7 hits into your hostiles? Is that the precedence you want to set?
id be happily leaving that deal behind if they were truly disbanding.. but their sn was showing otherwise, and they paid for it - just like we paid for hitting them while telling we wouldnt.. a truce was set in the end and both kds moved on.. i dont think you grasp the resolved conflict concept..Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
would you like someone to break their war deal with you with bs reasons, only to show max activity randoms and end up warring another kd? is that the precedence you want to set? if you find us doing that, you are welcome to make 14 hits instead..
Look Zauper, next time CR goes into a war, I'm going to be razing that other KD then posting on the forums saying Zauper made me do it! We had no grudges against that kd at all, we just want to help our allies CR! So everyone can come and gangbang you for this "concrete evidence" that you organized a gangbang. You just quoted saying what Night, monarch of Ruthless posted was the concrete evidence. Ok, let's judge for ourselves:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
If you even bothered to read, they give concrete evidence AGAINST a planned coordination, rather that they were doing it because they got ****played by FS and wanted revenge, much like Lost souls and Goodwitch who you just said had valid gripes into razing. You also said that the timing of razes at the beginning of war was crucial, I want you to refer to his post and see for yourself how organized the hits immediately after war were:Quote:
Originally Posted by NighT
And then you say all our evidence against FS is irrelevant and that you had enough evidence for you and the alliance to act. Well if you're so sure you made the right decision, why stop at your 16 hits, shouldn't you raze SS to the ground for their supposed gb? That you take FS's and BB's word when in fact they organized the gangbang on SS only 7 ticks after war declare when only 4 unique players except Birdies hit into FS in the first 13 hours of war is beyond a joke. Your actions sadden me, Zauper. You try to police things so hard for "fairness" when in fact you are just another puppet of BB, just like FS and the other Fair play alliance crap. Yet another kd who bends over to BB and FS, I hope you are proud of what you guys achieved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke_
@silverfox
You are not the least of hypocrits on these boards, when FS farmed you 2 ages ago it was dead even fight that erupted after you onesidedly decided agreed upon war deal was void. We smashed you to bits starting from even grounds over it. To present it as blantant farming is BS. It could have and should ended much sooned that it did, but that is as much yours fault as it was ours. Our leaderships were just spitting poison on eachother.
Last age you vultured us when we came out of aliance war and waved us crazy pumped with half your KD ub and half our KD pk'ed in aliance war and restarted. It was a slaughter and we had no chance. We ofered 2 free waves in exchange for CF which is more than enough by anyones standards, you refused and asked for 4, which is unheared of. Its lame as **** to make such insane requests just cause someone stomped you 1v1.
What did you get from it ? You farmed ****ton of honor and land of us which propelled you in standings, and than proceeded to oow farm honor from kd's below you unhindered claiming crown in the process. The disparsity from honor gained from BB and lost to Pyro is nothing, drop in the sea you took from FS. You profited a LOT from entire affair.
You were fine with reparations made, dont backpadle now.
Not to mention whatever was dont to you is NOTHING compared to what was attempted by SS and its allies (including you) this age against FS.
@everyone who feels bullied by FS
Each and every KD we wave has a very reasonable and clean ticket out. Tank 1 wave, get CF in return. It is reasonable, its far, its not bullying.
We pay the price for our CF's, we pay the price when we dont want to fight. Do the same, if you have resources we want, we reserve the right to wave you. We will fight for this right every day of the week, if you retal war us you dont have moral grounds to complain.
If you cant deal with that I suggest you quit the game. Cause that is what Utopia is all about. If size and strength of a KD werent meant to be used as a leverage than extra acres wouldnt provide extra troops and income.
@Goodwitch
You are worst. Not because your ingame actions but because of your twisted morals.
Its incredible how your side does everything you accuse FS off, its incredible how you deny us every right and privilege you ask for yourself and your allies in this affair.
You whine how SS got gb'ed without "process" w/e that implies and you have no issue with the fact it was dont to us first.
We need to excersize some sort of trial or whatnot ... yet its ok for 3 kd's to pull the trigger and GB us.
Even your attempts to form a "taskforce" are nothing but attempt to sieze the power to enforce your own set of morals, something you accuse FS and anyone who stands up to your GB off.
I respect ppl like Feint who do what they do with clear and concise goal, to **** people over and dont hide it. I may not like him, but i respect him.
You on the other hand lack moral fiber for it. You whine, cry and play victim and completely ignore you all pulled the trigger first.
You need to get off that pedestal and look arround just what you got yourself into. If "fairness" you preach means its ok to 3v1 into war someone who "wasnt nice" to you I dont want any of it.
Look yourself in the mirror you hypocrit. You say people FS wave can tank 1 wave and get a CF in return. In SS's case they tanked 2 waves without any retal and you still wouldn't CF because SS were still over 85% of FS honor range, so you needed to wave again and again until we dropped out of that range and of course all on our tms, so we couldn't have another legitimate war this age. Also Goodwitch isn't in SS, she is just standing up to the bullies her own way. Noone of SS is whining about the gangbang even if they are wronged. Like Sheister said, we accept that FS has more fame and therefore more powerful allies than SS who only formed this age, and we accept that your leverage with top KDs got you out of this situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Finally a semi-coherent response. However it lacks accuracy and is a distortion of facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
There are really 2 parts. The agreed war we had with FS and the subsequent war we were going to have with kingdom x:x.
Background:
Part 1:
We agreed to war no question. However, we were 0/3 having a tough age, had players leaving and big internal issues. We went to FS and asked permission to withdraw from the war based on these issues, they GAVE us permission. (there are logs that several other kds asked us for war and we refused for the same reason[see footnote 1], there were also inquiries going on some sort of merger with another kd.) The biggest proof of the fact that we were going to disband was that we DID actually disband.
In the first part there is more than enough evidence to show that the 'disbanding' was not an avoidance. In fact we agreed to war later in the age if we got things together even if we would be at a disadvantage.
Part 2:
A few days later, x:x did a learn wave on us (I believe we were taking many hits at the time.) They were a much easier kd and the learn wave left many big attackers with no incoming. Being that they gave us the button in such a favorable position to us we decided that we would try one last time to see if we could work something out with the kd and go to war. We realized that earlier on we had a deal to war you (by now we were 1 mill NW smaller not even sure if that is declare range in year 6.) So we messaged you and your king and explained the situation. An easy war might help to solve some kd issues and stop us from disbanding. As I posted a few posts ago. YOU BOTH GAVE US PERMISSION TO WAR THEM. You then proceed with hitting into our hostile AND dealbroke your permission not to touch us.
Even if for arguments sake we were avoiding you (which we were not.) We went directly to ask you and your king about opening hostiles with x:x and got permission from both, yet you went and DB ad DH us behind our back. (And btw another important point..... we asked you about warring x:x after you found as so 'active' in your sn of us which further shows you said yes irrespective of previous circumstances.)
All this casts to one side the unsavory way you talked to us.
I think he does grasp it. Clearly it means FS can call in fairplay allies on ED and let someone else take the punishment. It also means that you took no punishment for your db and hitting into a hostile. (I can add threatening to hit into a war also.)Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
Oh and I believe you even said as much yourself that you gave us the button, so your maths might be wrong somewhere. But I cant be 100% sure, 7/8 hits makes sense. But the key is that the logs show you wanted to continue and even hit into our war. You only backed of after ED sent a couple hits your way.
p.s I'm not sure how good we were at armies in/out. Some of them were sitters (I think we were 17 in a 25 man kd actually playing.) And if we are about to disband you can be damn sure keeping armies home 24/7 is a final nail in the coffin!
1. I am prepared to provide proof on a case by case basis in a pm. But this is a side point.
If someone has agreed to war us (we try to avoid the whole arranged war thing in the first place) and then was waved by a kingdom in better range I would wish them good luck with their war. The beauty of being war ready vs pumping for a specific war is that we are flexible. Yes, that means that sometimes we lose. But at least it doesn't force us to insist on a war where we have an unfair advantage...just think, people were already poking fun at your avg opponent size, had they warred you it would look much worse. So they kind of did you a favor.Quote:
Originally Posted by LoRD_SaMPuaN
I was by no means trying to get you punished for this incident. I understand it was somewhat resolved. It was just showing the way you operate. And that your word can't be trusted, (the reason I say somewhat is because I saw what and how the "agreement" was reached. And at which size difference and under which threats)
There is a reason they are called Feyrplay and not Fairplay...it's not a typo
ED had already taken honor from FS. It was the honor Pyro took which this is all about.Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
You want me to go investigate something thats like what, 2months old? Can papers even be provided? The game only stores 2 weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
It's a double hostile at best. This isn't made up, this has been the norm for many ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
60 pages, lots of dead provinces, oceans of tears.
All could have been avoided with a nice open conversation. Admittedly not as fun, but still sAD :(
You are accountable for the majority of those rivers flowing to that ocean, admittedly with your pro-FS and pro-Bullying attitudes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Oh look what I found, another FS hypocrit. You think SS withdrawing will give a fair chance for other kds competing for the honor charts? That this conflict originated from FS waving SS while way out of declare range and you expect people to believe that FS will not continue waving everyone who was in direct competition for honor chart regardless of how small they are? Well congrats on your shiny crown, you must be so proud son.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
Also, yes you deserve your warwin! Such a fair fight getting all your friends to come help you at the first sign of trouble, and those said allies proceed to do more than double the tally of hits on SS than FS received, not to say versus a much smaller opponent. Congrats on your hard earned double crown, wow FS is so pro! Another ghetto farms out to FS's proness! #FSBestKDintheWorld
Right, they lost honour before. What did they lose after they instigated the GB?Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
You dont have to.Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Its a little more than that, its also a db. They also threatened to hit into our warQuote:
Originally Posted by protector
Yeah well, I think you predicted this would happen in the last awar. I kept my nose out of the forum in the beginning. But as things went on I felt I had an obligation to publicize FS play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
The dam had already breached, I simply grabbed a boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
Well I do take it upon myself to try and keep the forums active, but I most certainly don't have a pro-FS/pro-bullying attitude. I've said it plenty of times that FS was far from clean in this whole thing. What I have said is I don't see a problem with the #1 honor kingdom waving the #2 honor kingdom. That's far from bullying. I made a post on page 1 saying people should talk things out.
*shrug*
Have a swirvey day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
The point remains though that ED was wronged and got a ****ty deal out of it without many other options. When you've been double hostiled by an alliance them then not wanting to give honour from certain parties and not wanting them to be engaged in 1v1 conflicts shouldn't be a primary focus, quite how FS got a CF out of the deal when Parth wanted to crush them and the talks should have been focused on repaying ED for damages I don't know, but it was more a point towards Palms posts where the real outcome was FS got a CF while being pounded, ED didn't claim all the honour from BB and Pyro gained acres/honour, now if you blank out the KD names there who would you think got the best deals. Lets not forget that ED was in an active x2 hostile as well, while trying to sort a lot of this stuff out.
I've only seen Ruthless' monarch post here, I'd hardly call asking if you wanted to get revenge on someone an act of organising a GB otherwise you could find a bunch of reasons to have KDs razed just from these forums alone. Also when a "guilty" party comes out and says they were asked something, then explain their reasoning behind actions, it's likely that they're being truthful. Why would Ruthless be asked to GB FS, then be able to magically invent a great backstory and have already stated before the fact that they would get revenge if possible.
FS didn't offer ED a CF option, ED offered FS a CF option. FS could have walked away and found another war but spent 2 weeks razing a KD, ED offered and gave FS a CF.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Who sets the number of hits a KD gets to make? You think it's fine for FS to wave SS multiple times with no CF option, but it's BS for you to be waved then asked for extra? Is it also BS that CR asks for a percentage of land for CFs? What if they can't get the land in x number of waves are they out of line? Pretty sure Parth even offered you time to get into range of ED to war and you declined that, prefering to ask BB for help.
A **** tonne of land and honour? While bottom feeding? Tell me more about how you've invented this scenario of us gaining so much of FS that it' "propelled us up the charts", that's hilarious. I guess it's cool to reinvent the past.
You don't seem to grasp the point of my posting. It's got nothing to do with trying to gain something from last age, it's to highlight the hypocritical nature of FS and allies. You can dish things out but can't handle them happening to you.
Ermmm ... no ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
After we waved you we offered you CF as long as you dont surpass 85% our honor and dont engage KD's we have eoacf with.
You were also told you can keep your honor until you find and finish your war so you can keep your bonuses since you claimed you dont intend to compete for honor crown and just needed those bonuses to war.
Logic behind terms was that you ARE the KD that tried to farm the honor crown away in FW 2 ages ago, so we wanted to prevent any shenanigans with you farming it to a KD we cant engage due to eoacf.
We even told you we were ok with you warring Divinity in particular (who you claimed you wanted to war) after Francis talked to Persian about it.
Markers actually AGREED to those terms but requested time for monarch to confirm it.
All this was happening BEFORE our 2nd wave on you.
After your side stalled and didnt confirm the deal Francis threahtned to wave you and you told us to proceed with 2nd wave but asked to hit your attackers for alleged landdrop you needed.
Clear case of stalling while you organized GB if you ask me even if I cant prove it.
After our 2nd wave you started retaling and we were both stuck in a retal war.
So yes, we DID offer you cf after one wave, one that adhered to all your requests, to allow you to war one last time before EOA with your honor bonuses w/o actually allowing you to compete with us for honor crown (something you were adamant you were not interested at all)
This is a not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
FS offered ED cf and to walk away from war deal in exchange for a one wave. Parth told u to go **** ourself and to give you button if we have balls.
There was lot of balls talk in his msgs.
Oh right, you mean the part where after FS sat and did nothing & Parth messaged you saying to either engage or we'd consider war agreement invalid, while FS kept exploring provs?Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Yeah that must be it, right before the part where Francis threatened to double hostile and/or make OOW hits into ED.
I'd forgotten about that to be fair, cheers for reminding me that it's ok for FS to make OOW hits on KDs as well, better add it to the list of bull**** (I guess Ruthless should have just said they were actually razing FS OOW because it was a "continuation of actions, which they're allowed to dictate how long they last for").
No, I mean the part where you were offered cf and backing away from deal in exchange for 1 wave, than and there, on the spot.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
Rest was bollocks than, and its bollocks now.
Oh really, how considerate of FS to let us to keep our honor so we can war... when you just fully honor-raped our tms in your first wave, which rendered our proposed war impossible. We proposed not to compete for honor crown, yet FS would have none of it and wouldn't read out mails regarding CF. If you had propsed to take ~5k honor off our attackers when they had armies out, we would've come to a mutual agreement, but no... disregard all our mails on purpose and deliberately hitting our tms down. Next, you threaten to wave us, and give us the ultimatum of hits on our tms again or our army home attackers, and markers chose attackers to save our tms another wave (wow how considerate of FS!). So no, you did not offer us 1 wave then CF, you wanted more than the 2 waves you got and still wouldn't CF, as well as destroy any chance we had of being able to compete or war again for the rest of the age.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
Your logic for the supposed FW is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, the majority of SS is newly formed and this is our first age together, including many of the council and have no idea what you are talking about. Secondly, we were dragged into it, like Feint and markers have posted many times already. So yes, even though you already had honor crown secured and we had a fight with Divinity planned (do you honestly think SS will gain much honor prepping for fight with Divinity while FS continues waving for honor daily), but FS decides to prevent any of this from happening.
Nice rant to slide into after you called me liar and was rebuked ?Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
I notice you didnt disprove any of my claims.
We told you before and I will repeat it again so it sinks in. You were competing with us for honor crown so we waved you, its pretty simple.
You can say what you want about you not beeing old pharma but your actions disprove you.
You again resorted to foul play, and your partner in crimw was again Feint.
You can call us bullies all you want, but we didnt dealbroke you or engaged you in anything other than 1v1, your biggest complaint against us can be summed up we didnt treated you nice.
You on the other hand organized and participated in dealbreak and GB into war against us. You can play dumb about it all you want, evidence was overwhelming as was confirmed by neutral and respected 3rd party aka Zauper.
Nice story.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
ED offered you a CF and it was refused, Francis never made a counter offer. Even after FS had hit ED for +20k acres and ~10k honour they refused the CF ED had offered.
Francis' threat to OOW hit ED and other hypocritical ****e from FS about whats they're allowed to consider a war or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Here's a question, I have logs/quotes, how much crap do you want to talk before just start posting them as counter points?
citadela I love you too. Thank you for making clear that I am nothing like Feint :) I am sure both him and me appreciate that you can keep us apart.
let me explain the taskforce to you one more time real slow so you can understand it too. The taskforce did NOT hit FS nor are they planning to. The taskforce isn't planning to hit anyone if they can help it. It's a place where kingdoms not in the top 10 or 20 can go to get some advice and in bad cases help, such when a rogue recruit threatens to take over the kingdom, or some kingdom razekills a bunch of provinces to make a specific person monarch against the will of the kingdom. Stuff that the top can't take care of cause one they are busy and two they are too far out of range should something actually need doing.
Palem I agree. All I wanted initially was just to not be used as an excuse for FS average opponent size, and to correct a false statement. A simple "I'm sorry, won't happen again" would have done. But FS was too proud to admit they did something wrong.
But in retrospect I am kind of glad. I really thought our situation was a single incident, more of a random hit that was retalled because I was out of town and then followed by a misunderstanding , resulting in a war, that started at unfair advantage but ended up being fun and we still walked away with gains.
Now we all know better. This happens all the time. And every time they paint it like it was either someone else's fault or it was miscommunication amongst them or whatever excuse they can come up with at the time.
Even our war last age(no complaints we beat ourselves that war) the first message I got from Francis was, hey, sorry was out of town for a few days and just got back. He didn't need an excuse for that war, but looking back now I wonder if that was true or just a safety net just in case. Which is sad cause, you can ask anyone in my kingdom, I respected Francis a lot. Or you can look at the Respect thread in the beginning.
Threatening with something is not the same as doing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfox
You offered blank cf and refused us wave we asked in return.
Sadly i dont have logs any more, I would need to dig through endless forum pages to find old posts provided they even survived forum wipe.
No, actually I just rebuked all your claims. Also wrong, we specifically said we were not competing for honor crown, but you still waved us after ignoring our pms. Another lie, the only one foul playing was FS who called in their allies after only 4 players from ruthless hit FS in the first 13h of war, and your so called allies claim they had time to "analyze concrete evidence" when there really is none to be had. Simple fact of the matter is, everyone razing FS hates FS and wants a piece of you when you were most vulnerable, but FS can't have any of that and call in 4 of their allies to start their organized raze vs SS only 7 hours after war declare, rather than you know against those KDs doing the razing, and at the same time fabricating a plan that said SS was the mastermind behind all this and these kds were taking part in this organized gb on direct order from SS! Such quick thinking I have to admit, I applaud you on that. Also feint hates us, he just hates FS more. He just does what he does best and you of all people should know by now.Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
No our biggest complaint was FS ****played us, got hit by other KDs who also got ****played by FS, decided to accuse SS and start their witchhunt alliance in an organized razing of SS. Also, I already debunked all your evidence your "respected" Zauper provided, so if that's the best you've got, then it just paints you in a worse light. But really, so be it. We understand SS can't do anything about it even though they are innocent, since they got no allies unlike FS who can call in an alliance and raze anyone who they don't like without facing any consequence.
You failed to adress my claims, let alone rebuke them.Quote:
Originally Posted by FS Best KD in the World
You claimed you were not offered offered CF after 1 wave, I presented you with offered CF and terms you seemingly agreed to before resorting to GB.
You going on about how we waved you in the first place has no relevance in that argument.
You falling back to same old "we had nothing to do with it" has no relevance to the argument.
You claim innocence, just like you did 2 ages ago.
Personally I gave you benefit of the doubt back than, FS had nothing with you geting deleted, it was Bishop who passed the judgement.
Now we are in similar situation again, this time I dont give you benefit of the doubt.
There has been plenty evidence about your wrongdoings, and part that wasnt made public (and is unknown to me as well) is vouched for by respected neutral parties.
You can put quotation mark on respected part all you like, you will be hard pressed to find more impartial and respected 3rd party. In this community its as good as it gets.
But feel free keep playing dumb. You only strengthen our case.
Now if youll excuse me its nn time for me
If you read carefully I already addressed all your claims but you chose to ignore. We were offered a CF with unrational terms like staying under 85% of FS honor and not able to war anyone you had cfed with which was everyone within our range. Thus we obviously wanted to negotiate between our council and between the leaders of both SS and FS. But FS decides to not wait and wave SS again while CF negotiations are taking place. So is that how you do all your CF deals with weaker kds? Keep pounding them until they beg for you to stop and giving no chance or time to discuss or negotiate?Quote:
Originally Posted by citadela01
You are also wrong about the FW thing cause I like most of our members only joined SS or old pharma as you call this age. We had no relations to old pharma or whatever, why should we be help accountable? Now how about you provide some of your concrete evidence as you call instead of saying we organized gb for the 100th time every time you cant seem to win an argument any other way. Like I also said earlier, maybe if you bothered to read up to my reply on your "respected" source, you wouldn't be here repeating yourself.
Main leaders was Parth and dubai as it has been for for a long time. Tadpole was with us for half the age at best. Helluva only did some diplo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
FS never wanted war ED on similar acres/NW (we all know they need that advantage to go for a decent KD) First time they stalled. When ED told them that we would walk away and we ceased hits they started to explore and when they where finally 15% bigger in NW they started hitting. That took about 2 weeks for them to get what they wanted. Second time when FS close to autodeclare they claimed No hostile and called pyro for help who waved ED. Poor excuse for a warring KD!
To bad we disbanded now
It's ok. FS need to demonize SS to sell the illusion. That doesn't mean I hate you, FS.
I suspected a single operator in that FW by evidence of behavior. Luckily I was born right, but most people call it paranoia. So all you new SS players should know, the perpetrator already admitted this, publicly. Your leadership is innocent.
If you know the history of the parties involved then you would've figured this out as well.
This is what right brain dominant thinkers are for in Utopia: we ask why(?).
FS aka Francis actually came and ask fluffylicious to step in first on the whole ED matter when FS needed help, I told Francis then that fluffy would not engage in doubling someone in a clear hostile on both sides, Francis acknowledged this and told me he was disappointed we wouldn't aid FS to get ED to stop, about 12hrs later I was told Pyro would be waving in (not by Francis), a tick or 2 later Parth pm'd and said Pyro had just waved in.
Just for the record as I can read people are saying FS ran straight to BB.
For the record...we know you can't read ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aranfein