rules on fake wars

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Originally Posted by John Snowstorm

they should just be pushed out of fw imo, and all provs set to peasants for being such dishonorable people! :O

48 hour suspension is a frickin *huge* punishment, that kind of thing will kill kds super quick.

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If they ARE breaking the rules, we don't really care about that. They need a punishment that will deter those actions. If all that happens is they get pushed out of a FW (After taking advantage of the FW for however long they were in it before the action was taken) there is no discouragement. Run into FW for 12-24 hours and get pushed out again after you've had a chance to get troops home and everything.

If kingdoms are concerned with dying off due to this change, don't break the rules.

this post is spam (but it has been fried and is quite tasty)


... (stupid post limit to do a pm)

Che do you even understand why it hasn't been acted on? First and foremost, the NEED for FWing has to be fixed. Extending EOWCF was step 1.

What is step 2 in your mind?

Fake Wars are Laaaaaaaaaammmmmeeee

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Originally Posted by Che Guevara

If they ARE breaking the rules, we don't really care about that. They need a punishment that will deter those actions. If all that happens is they get pushed out of a FW (After taking advantage of the FW for however long they were in it before the action was taken) there is no discouragement. Run into FW for 12-24 hours and get pushed out again after you've had a chance to get troops home and everything.

If kingdoms are concerned with dying off due to this change, don't break the rules.

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Everyone who jaywalks should get 15 years in prison. herp derp.

why you want to kill kds off?

after you push two or 3 kds out of fw, the practice will utterly stop anyways, why you want to kill 2-3 kds and lose players from the game?

Think JSS's proposal to just boot KDs out of FW should be be good. I'm quite sure people will think twice before triggering FW knowing a few kingdoms have been kicked out already.

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Originally Posted by John Snowstorm

Everyone who jaywalks should get 15 years in prison. herp derp.

why you want to kill kds off?

after you push two or 3 kds out of fw, the practice will utterly stop anyways, why you want to kill 2-3 kds and lose players from the game?

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Wow, you have no concept of anything, do you, John? People who jaywalk and get a ticket for it pay a fine. A two-day suspension is not 15 years in prison. If I had said to delete everyone in the kingdom who FW'd, that would be different. Pushing people out of a FW does nothing, unless it happens within the first hour. Obviously you don't know anything, or you wouldn't keep posting on here.

I never said to kill kingdoms off, if you recall, the suspending accounts was not my suggestion, and I don't agree with it. However, I do think the leadership needs to be held accountable for breaking rules as a kingdom. Delete the leaders and the practice will utterly stop. They can come right back in, no worries, they just have to start over again. It means they fear for their province when they break the rules, the same as everyone else who breaks the rules. It is not a kingdom-crippling thing, but it very much hurts a kingdom's goals if they lose a province late in the age.

Anyway, jaywalking is a bad analogy, because it doesn't really hurt anyone, and is only illegal in big cities for the most part. Going into a FW and using it as protection does hurt people, so it's more of a case of assault or armed robbery.

Tell me what the point of getting kicked out of FW is? They still get SOME benefit from the FW for however long it takes someone to look into the FW and then they kicked kicked out of FW with no penalties. Yes, it's not as beneficial as a full length FW, but there are no penalties to it. If anything, you would see MORE FWs among the lower level kingdoms that don't want to spend 48+ hours to get out of a situation so they manage to get a FW (Believe me, anyone can get a FW easy enough it isn't like it's only the top-kd's domain.) After 12 hours they get kicked out of FW, with their meter reset and in better shape than when they entered.

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Originally Posted by Lead Pipe

Fake Wars are Laaaaaaaaaammmmmeeee

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hell yeah

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Originally Posted by Che Guevara

1.) Again, until Brian or Sean posts and says it is against the rules, I do not see it as being against the rules.
2.) To followup with point 1, if it IS against the rules, it needs to be actioned, instead of the dev staff acting like cuckolds (Knowing everyone is cheating on you and not doing anything about it.) I would say any case that can be proven to be a FW would result in the monarchs being deleted. That should put the fear of devs into people when a few high-profile names get deleted. And if nothing else make people actually work for their FWs.

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1: You're in a for a nasty surprise if you think my statments are just idle chat. FW is against the games rules.
2: Time to learn your uto history. There is a moratorium on actioning fw, just like there was with accounts traded several years back.

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Originally Posted by DHaran

Che do you even understand why it hasn't been acted on? First and foremost, the NEED for FWing has to be fixed. Extending EOWCF was step 1.

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Roisin also said it wouldn't be actioned and this statement will be honored until the current devs decide to action fw - ideally the reason for fw should be eliminated first, but it wouldn't take much to stop it. None of this (support stuff) is currently scalable though.

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Originally Posted by Che Guevara

Wow, you have no concept of anything, do you, John? People who jaywalk and get a ticket for it pay a fine. A two-day suspension is not 15 years in prison. If I had said to delete everyone in the kingdom who FW'd, that would be different. Pushing people out of a FW does nothing, unless it happens within the first hour. Obviously you don't know anything, or you wouldn't keep posting on here.

I never said to kill kingdoms off, if you recall, the suspending accounts was not my suggestion, and I don't agree with it. However, I do think the leadership needs to be held accountable for breaking rules as a kingdom. Delete the leaders and the practice will utterly stop. They can come right back in, no worries, they just have to start over again. It means they fear for their province when they break the rules, the same as everyone else who breaks the rules. It is not a kingdom-crippling thing, but it very much hurts a kingdom's goals if they lose a province late in the age.

Anyway, jaywalking is a bad analogy, because it doesn't really hurt anyone, and is only illegal in big cities for the most part. Going into a FW and using it as protection does hurt people, so it's more of a case of assault or armed robbery.

Tell me what the point of getting kicked out of FW is? They still get SOME benefit from the FW for however long it takes someone to look into the FW and then they kicked kicked out of FW with no penalties. Yes, it's not as beneficial as a full length FW, but there are no penalties to it. If anything, you would see MORE FWs among the lower level kingdoms that don't want to spend 48+ hours to get out of a situation so they manage to get a FW (Believe me, anyone can get a FW easy enough it isn't like it's only the top-kd's domain.) After 12 hours they get kicked out of FW, with their meter reset and in better shape than when they entered.

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the practice will utterly stop anyways without having to delete anyone, or kill any kds by enforcibly farming them out by putting them in 48 hour suspension. As soon as people know its against the rules and theyre going to get pushed out, its over. Put a monarch in VM or something maybe, tops.

also you're claiming that I "have no concept of anything" but you think fake war resets meter?

wow. It's amusing to argue with people about fw when they don't know how it works :)

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Originally Posted by Che Guevara

If I went out and shot someone, it is against the law. If the justice system did nothing to me, why would I stop shooting people? It doesn't make any sense to make rules you are unwilling to enforce. "Fear our non-binding resolutions!"

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LOL speaking about dumb comparisons :p

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Originally Posted by Che Guevara

Wow, you have no concept of anything, do you, John? People who jaywalk and get a ticket for it pay a fine. A two-day suspension is not 15 years in prison. If I had said to delete everyone in the kingdom who FW'd, that would be different. Pushing people out of a FW does nothing, unless it happens within the first hour. Obviously you don't know anything, or you wouldn't keep posting on here.

I never said to kill kingdoms off, if you recall, the suspending accounts was not my suggestion, and I don't agree with it. However, I do think the leadership needs to be held accountable for breaking rules as a kingdom. Delete the leaders and the practice will utterly stop. They can come right back in, no worries, they just have to start over again. It means they fear for their province when they break the rules, the same as everyone else who breaks the rules. It is not a kingdom-crippling thing, but it very much hurts a kingdom's goals if they lose a province late in the age.

Anyway, jaywalking is a bad analogy, because it doesn't really hurt anyone, and is only illegal in big cities for the most part. Going into a FW and using it as protection does hurt people, so it's more of a case of assault or armed robbery.

Tell me what the point of getting kicked out of FW is? They still get SOME benefit from the FW for however long it takes someone to look into the FW and then they kicked kicked out of FW with no penalties. Yes, it's not as beneficial as a full length FW, but there are no penalties to it. If anything, you would see MORE FWs among the lower level kingdoms that don't want to spend 48+ hours to get out of a situation so they manage to get a FW (Believe me, anyone can get a FW easy enough it isn't like it's only the top-kd's domain.) After 12 hours they get kicked out of FW, with their meter reset and in better shape than when they entered.

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The point of getting kicked out of FW is that you are out of war unprepared. Are you really that stupid that even this is too hard to understand??
No matter how long or short you're in fakewar, if you get kicked out without a notice you're simply not prepared to be out. Most kingdoms in fakewar have low draft and sit on high GC builds and are usually alot less active during a FW as there is no need to do anything.

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Originally Posted by Bishop

1: You're in a for a nasty surprise if you think my statments are just idle chat. FW is against the games rules.
2: Time to learn your uto history. There is a moratorium on actioning fw, just like there was with accounts traded several years back.



Roisin also said it wouldn't be actioned and this statement will be honored until the current devs decide to action fw - ideally the reason for fw should be eliminated first, but it wouldn't take much to stop it. None of this (support stuff) is currently scalable though.

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Thank you for the insight Bishop. Two follow up questions out of interest.

1) Was the current Ud leet mechanism in place when Roisin indicated FW wouldn't be actioned?
2) If a KD is sitting in a FW and their Ud are sytemically hitting out of it into one KD, to take advantage of the fact they won't suffer losses but any retals will suffer high losses, or hitting out in general to pump their elite numbers. Is that enforceable as an abuse of the Ud elite mechanic? Or not enforceable as it's considered part of an FW, which is not enforced?

yes and no - undeads arent an issue.

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Originally Posted by prot

LOL speaking about dumb comparisons :p



The point of getting kicked out of FW is that you are out of war unprepared. Are you really that stupid that even this is too hard to understand??
No matter how long or short you're in fakewar, if you get kicked out without a notice you're simply not prepared to be out. Most kingdoms in fakewar have low draft and sit on high GC builds and are usually alot less active during a FW as there is no need to do anything.

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You don't think people would adapt to KNOWING they could get pushed out? You really don't have a clue. You go into a FW knowing that you have the chance of getting kicked out (All changes like this would have to have an announcement saying what could happen, anyway). So you don't run a "normal" FW strategy. You use FW to escape bad situations, and you can even pump, to a degree. But you don't sit there with 30dpa and 90% banks or whatever. I guarantee that FWs would be just as common if you got kicked out early, although their use would evolve a little. They would be useful for protecting a wave to a degree (Have the FW ready to go before hand, do a wave, run into FW, and you have a few hours of safety). There are plenty of uses for FW that would still be there and be used even more (BECAUSE you aren't locked in for 48 hours + the EoW CF period). It would be a quick escape system that gives people a few hours of relative security. Certainly, they wouldn't get the full benefit of -75% gains on them as it wouldn't scale to that point in the 12 hours before they were kicked out, but it would be SOME protection.