Printable View
Or ppl that hate everything with a CR logo on it :)
Zauper 2-3 posts above says that undead orcs halfers and elves are better in normal conditions on their specializations.
Humans can be best all around but need specific conditions which i doubt most ppl can fulfill. That's why i'm against humans in general.
Why are you so silly? Let's follow your logic:Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
1) Humans have inferior military to other races
2) Humans are the weakest of the 'turtle' races until ~2-2.5k bpa
3) ?????
4) HUMANS RUN ALL MILITARY AND WEAK TWPA BECAUSE WE LIKE BAD ORCS
This seems flawed somewhere.
We are far from the only (or the first) kd to run humans as hybrids; AMA (and CR, and BB) ran our humans as hybrids last age. AMA/CR as a/t, and BB as a/t/m.
But if the best kds are doing it, that's probably a sign that they're doing it wrong and you're right.
In your classic war kd setup, you have t/ms, turtles (who are essentially hybrids that can stack acres in war), and high off hitters. If your turtles bring no t/m power to the table, why are you running them as human instead of anything with better military efficiency?
Conversely, if you run say 4-5 tpa on them with dens, you can have your say 6 turtles NS off enough defense from the target to make up the difference between having the extra population in military instead -- while being hardier vs t/ms, and having better ability to control opponent economy.
Actually my experience with Zauper goes back to playing with him in Genesis and watching him run Serenity not his time in CR but I am glad you seem to think that this time and point in Utopia is the only relevant time. No offense noobium but post your math and counter his. If you can but I don't see you running numbers and backing up your opinion. The fact is that numbers speak for themselves and it is something that can be ran with success.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
I'm not going to waste time and energy arguing with people whose only contribution is "durrrr we are top kingdoms, u are noob".
Human so good
lmao... noobium we know you like to be the man in these threads and it seems zauper stole your thunder here, but seriously be objective enough to realize Z is providing numbers and explanations while your replies amount to "durrr I hate top KD advice especially CR".
Why should I waste time and energy telling people why "hybrid" is generally a bad idea, when it is something that most of the game should know by now?
What happens when your 6 rTPA still fails? Troops don't have a fail rate, and to invest so much population on a thing that might not work is highly situational at best; and against attackers with low defensive TPA, it's overkill. It is easy to get away with this in kingdoms that always have plan wars with each other and can induce almost all the server to run from them.
The people who win ages don't agree, but you obviously must be right, because you're so much smarter than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
See folks, this is actually the opposite of 'I'm a top kd so I must be right' -- this is 'I'm not a top kd, so I must be right in spite of the top kds and the numbers to the contrary'.
But sure, run your humans as bad orcs.
At 6rTPA, the opposing kd t/ms aren't getting in vs your humans (a strong advantage). You can always run less and still run as a/t. Your exact numbers do need to be flexible -- but saying 'well 6 is too much, you can be a/t with less' is not an argument against running a/t.
Lol so much truth in this it hurts... we have 15 tacticians and I still find SoT that are 6+ hours old and no SoM on people who hit 4-5 hours ago. A handful of tacticians do 95% of the intel gathering and the others are more than willing to do it - but you have to specifically ask them to =)Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Zauper's right though. 6 rtpa with dens will have fairly high success rate if augmented by sapphire dragon and human crime sci + libs. It's really not all that situational. If you're an organized KD that knows how to pump sci properly and can run tight chains, hybrid isn't a bad idea at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by noobium
****, 5 tpa with ~100% science works just fine unless you are trying to op rogues. My ignorant view on the topic is that a benefit of a human A/T is you can take in acres and then kidnap population to fill the acres and then use your +income & tog to functionally use your mana regardless of your WPA. You can also pile on NS, especially when coupled with a NM wave into a target. They are hybrids, they take acres and turtle them.. you can run lower usable offense because your goal doesnt need to be to hit 4x into large provs, if you can grab and hold 200 acres that is valuable. Also the more econ provinces you have the harder it is to econ control you. Fireball the A/T they can kidnap peasants and go back to ToG'ing and training spec credits for dragon kills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightmare_
If you use munkbot, it will calculate defense still at home from an old som (as long as one was taken post-hit) and a recent sot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry0
Note: if you nightstrike the province, it will throw off defense at home.
And yeah, with sci and high rtpa, you're not going to 'fail' to run ops. Other kds could be running high WTs + CS, for example, but there are ways of handling that. (and if they're running 25%+ wt across the kd, you're gained a substantial space efficiency advantage and rebuild out of dens before declaring to take advantage of 25% free land...and then you tornado them, MV their CS and NS anyway in war).
We use stinger and it does the same thing... you still need the original SoM to be taken after they attack though =).
Yup these forums have turned into a toxic wasteland. Goodbye. You got what you wanted assholes.
Lol.