Japanese whaling

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

I eat meat, i have worked in abbotoirs mate, i know where meat comes from.

If you actually read my post, instead of just qouting people as everybody here seems to, my point is the cruelty with which it is done and the fact it is done under the guise of scientific research, this bothers me.

When deer or moose are cut up they are dead, when whales are cut up they are alive and gasping for breath.

Whaling is not big game hunting. As far as big game hunting is concerned i think it is done by men trying to make up for 'something' they lack in their own masculinity.

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Well, likewise, please read before you quote. When whales are cut up they are dead, just like deer and moose. Killing a whale is just like killing a deer or moose. In the past, this wasn't so, but today, the harpoons EXPLODE on impact, killing whales instantly just like big game hunting. Sometimes though, the animal is only wounded and you will have to shoot it one more time. This goes both for big game hunting and whaling. You should get your facts straight instead of listening to Greenpeace and other fanatics.

I agree that Japan should do it openly, like Norway does.


Big game hunting is a hobby, just like football, basket, fishing, cricket, etc. I'm guessing you have hobbies yourself, do you call those hobbies penis enlargers as well? :) Personally, I've never hunted anything except as a child, but it looks fun and the populations need to be kept in check.

My hobbies are reading, astronomy, camping and Utopia. Nope, they don't seem to have placebo effects upon my manhood, unlike those that go hunting for 'game'.

Whales are not killed instantly. Fact.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

My hobbies are reading, astronomy, camping and Utopia. Nope, they don't seem to have placebo effects upon my manhood, unlike those that go hunting for 'game'.

Whales are not killed instantly. Fact.

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Maybe a fact amongst the ignorant, but the world might be flat amongst them for all I know. You're acting rather immature. "My hobbies are the best, other hobbies are penis enlargers", "I'll claim whales are being tortured although they are not".

You claiming something doesn't make it right just because you put your head in the sand.


This site is made by: The Norwegian Ministry of Fisheries and Coastal Affairs
http://www.fisheries.no/ecosystems-a...hales/whaling/


"Scientific data show that minke whales are not an endangered species in our areas, and that they do not belong on the most stringent of CITES’ lists."
"In order to secure control of exports of minke whale products, a DNA register was created to determine whether whale products on the market derived from lawful Norwegian whaling, or whether they came from unregulated whaling. The register comprises analyses of all catches of minke whale from 1997 onwards. Test results are added to the DNA register as soon as possible after the whaling season has ended.
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"Norwegian whaling takes place in Norway’s economic zone, in the Fisheries Protection Zone around Svalbard and in the Fisheries Zone around Jan Mayen. The whaling season begins in April and ends in August/September. All vessels have an electronic monitoring system (black box) installed that registers all whaling activity. In addition, a corps of inspectors ensures compliance with the whaling regulations. Whalers are required to take an annual course focusing in particular on personnel safety and on ways to ensure that as little pain and stress as possible is inflicted to the hunted whales."
"Norwegian whaling is based on the principle of protection and sustainable harvesting of marine resources. Management of resources is founded on scientific advice, with the objective based on the concept of an ecosystem approach. Quotas are set on the basis of procedures developed by the Scientific Committee of the International Whaling Commission (IWC). This committee has estimated that the stocks of minke whale that we harvest in the Northeast Atlantic and around Jan Mayen total 108 thousand animals For 2011, a quota was set of 1286 animals, being composed of a basic annual quota of 885 and the addition of unused quotas from previous years. This was the same as the quota for 2010. The stock of minke whales off Iceland and the Faeroe Islands, the central Atlantic stock, is estimated to number 71thousand animals.
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"By the introduction of the penthrite grenade harpoonss, the hunting methods have developed and improved extensively. "



Now you got a choice. You can either deny the obvious or you can gain some knowledge and expand your horizon. Whaling is perfectly fine.

There is alot of inhuman whaling thou going on.

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Originally Posted by Korp

There is alot of inhuman whaling thou going on.

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There's a lot of inhuman slaughtering of cows, chicken, sheep or deer as well. Should we ban the slaughtering of these animals too, or should we rather try to regulate and control that animals are not victims of unnecessary suffering? I don't think anyone supports animal torture.

I can't speak for Japan, but Norwegian whaling is highly regulated and they have black boxes reporting how whales are being caught.

Edit:
http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/slaughter/

This site is probably filled with propaganda and filled with lies to aid its cause, but there's a shred of evidence in it. So let's ban the slaughter of turkeys and chicken in the US because it's inhumane.... No? It says millions of birds are tortured every year in the US. So why not ban that instead?

Well i disagree with modern whaling practises and that is that.

Check the title of this thread, it is to do with Japanese Whaling, i have no knowledge whatsoever os Norway's policy on whaling.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

My hobbies are reading, astronomy, camping and Utopia. Nope, they don't seem to have placebo effects upon my manhood, unlike those that go hunting for 'game'.

Whales are not killed instantly. Fact.

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Dude, get your facts straight first.
You just repeat the Sea Shepherd lies.

In the japanese whaling fleet the whales are caught a long way from the processing vessel.
They aren't anywhere near alive when they are processed.


And i also worked in abbatoirs.
I've been a food inspector in the past and i've seen many pigs who weren't killled propperly.
So don't act as if those things are 100% fool proof.


You should first make sure you know what you are talking about and you still think the whaling is in Australian waters which makes you only look like a fool.
Whaling is being done in regions like the Ross sea which is claimed by New Zealand, a claim that isn't even recognized by most other countries.
When its claimed by NZl, how in hell is it possible those are Australian Territorial Waters???????????


Hardly anyone supporting the Environmental Weirdo's has a clue what they are talking about and its proven once again.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

Well i disagree with modern whaling practises and that is that.

Check the title of this thread, it is to do with Japanese Whaling, i have no knowledge whatsoever os Norway's policy on whaling.

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You apparently have no knowledge about Japanese Whaling either, didn't stop you from posting here either :D

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Hardly anyone supporting the Environmental Weirdo's has a clue what they are talking about and its proven once again.

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Its not like we know that you know what you are talking about since you dont provide any sources for your claim. Oddly enough only Stoffi seems to do that..

I know my opinion on the matter and i stand by it. Each to their own.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Its not like we know that you know what you are talking about since you dont provide any sources for your claim. Oddly enough only Stoffi seems to do that..

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Well, you can google on the topic "Ross Sea" and notice that area definatly isn't Australian Territorial Waters.
I could post a link to the wiki site, but didn't bother doing that cuz info is so easily found.

People should bother gathering their own info instead of just accepting things 1 person claims to be the truth.

I stand by my opinion. Each to their own.

ps.
I'm not allowed to post links for my post count should be 10 or greater and i'm stuck at 8 now.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

I stand by my opinion. Each to their own.

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Repeating the same post over and over again usually is considered to be SPAM on most forums i know.

And since previous post was my 10th post, now i can post links.
So here we go.

In case you really think a link is important and its to much of an effort to search yourself.

Article
In this article Australia's attorney-general, Nicola Roxon, states it happened in international waters.
Hence, the fleet isn't in Australian Territorial waters.

If you wonder where those Australian Territorial waters are, just google and you get many pictures showing that region.
I however guess scorpio considers all water south of Australia to be Australian Territorial waters and therefor has no clue about the meaning of territorial waters which is only maximum 12 miles from the countries baseline.

If you want a link on that easy to find topic to: Territorial waters

Better?

I stand by my opinion. Each to their own.

If you read back you shall see that, regardless of issues of territory it is the manner in which the whaling is done and the fact it is done under the guise of scientific research that bothers me.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

I stand by my opinion. Each to their own.

If you read back you shall see that, regardless of issues of territory it is the manner in which the whaling is done and the fact it is done under the guise of scientific research that bothers me.

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Doesn't matter, you claimed Australian military should attack them cuz they are doing it in Australian territorial waters and repeated it despite being suggested it wasn't a fact.
That merely shows you have no clue at all what you are talking about and don't even bother finding out either.

Just 1 google search after my first response and you would have found out you were wrong, despite you repeated it several times.
That is just ignorant.
But thats common policy amongst environmental fanatics.


ps.
Stoffi, i loved the SouthPark episode to.
It's so rediculous, yet so accurate.

Well i am not an environmental fanatatic so i wouldn't know, i never claimed to be an expert, i am just voicing my opinion and asking for other's upon the subject. Japanese whaling fleets do operate in Australian waters at times.

Simply because my opinion differs to yours does not mean that it is baseless, i think that shooting whales with explosive tipped harpoons, dragging them onboard to be chopped up whilst still alive is an abhorrent act and doing so under the guise of science is simply WRONG

That is my opinion. Each to their own.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

Simply because my opinion differs to yours does not mean that it is baseless, i think that shooting whales with explosive tipped harpoons, dragging them onboard to be chopped up whilst still alive is an abhorrent act and doing so under the guise of science is simply WRONG

That is my opinion. Each to their own.

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Well, it is baseless when you claim again and again that whales are butchered and cut apart alive. It's simply not true, as I have shown you several times.

You have an opinion, but it's based on false information. You're claiming the Earth is flat. Well, it's not, it's round. Whales are NOT chopped up while alive, they die immediately because the harpoons EXPLODE on impact. But as with sheep, cows, chicken, turkeys and any other animal we eat, some animals are not instantly killed, but the butchers do what they can do make it go quick and right.


Your opinion is based on false information and therefore I cannot respect it. Ignorance is another word for it.

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Originally Posted by Wolfshound

ps.
Stoffi, i loved the SouthPark episode to.
It's so rediculous, yet so accurate.

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One of my favourite episodes. :) I wish more americans and other whale hypocrites would watch it and understand it.

Each to their own.

I never claimed the earth was flat.

Whales are NOT all killed instantly.

My opinion is that whaling is cruel and unecesary, it is done by the Japanese under the guise of scientific research and it is quite often carried out in Australian territorial waters. These are facts.

I tire of repeating myself continually to people who seem only wishing to 'pick arguements'.

Each to their own opinion.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

Each to their own.

I never claimed the earth was flat.

Whales are NOT all killed instantly.

My opinion is that whaling is cruel and unecesary, it is done by the Japanese under the guise of scientific research and it is quite often carried out in Australian territorial waters. These are facts.

I tire of repeating myself continually to people who seem only wishing to 'pick arguements'.

Each to their own opinion.

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No, there is no each to their own opinion when someone claims grass is blue. Yes, the japanese should say it as it is, you are right there, but no more whales than chicken, turkeys, cows or deer suffer. That is FACT, it's not an opinion, it's how it is.

You can of course think it unnecessary to hunt whales, that's an opinion I respect. But don't base your opinion on false information, 9 out of 10 whales are killed right on impact, 1 out of 10 need an extra shot. :)

What is with that. Seriously.

Why do people qoute so very much?

My post was the most previous one, it is directly above yours? It seems all people do is qoute and snipe.

YES there is 'each to their own opinion', i never made claims about the colour of grass. I have worked in abbottoirs, livestock are killed instantly either with an electrical charge or an air gun, in some places they have their throats cut. Whales are impaled with a explosive tipped harpoon and dragged out of the ocean to be chopped apart, quite often whilst still very much alive.

How the 'ahem' do you know 9 out of 10 whales are killed outright?

You are simply arguing for the sake of it. EACH TO THEIR OWN OPINION DUDE.

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Well, it is baseless when you claim again and again that whales are butchered and cut apart alive. It's simply not true, as I have shown you several times.

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I skimmed through the thread so might missed, but i didnt see a single shred of evidence supporting your claims and numbers of whales die in Japan. You provided some links to Norway which is hardly relevant in this discussion as you can read per topic its "Japanse whaling"

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You have an opinion, but it's based on false information. You're claiming the Earth is flat. Well, it's not, it's round. Whales are NOT chopped up while alive, they die immediately because the harpoons EXPLODE on impact. But as with sheep, cows, chicken, turkeys and any other animal we eat, some animals are not instantly killed, but the butchers do what they can do make it go quick and right.

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Yet again, no proof provided from you, show it, then you can go back to accusing other people of having false information.

Just one google away and I can see how whaling in general seems very inhumane to hunt.

http://www.ifaw.org/ca/our-work/whales/cruelty-whaling

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Why do people qoute so very much?

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Its easier to follow the discussion if you know who the person adress or what topics in a post it adresses.

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You are simply arguing for the sake of it. EACH TO THEIR OWN OPINION DUDE.

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No, thats just who cant argue anymore and lack arguments then you go around spouting some nonsese about "each to their own opinion". Fight for your beliefs instead of getting steamrolled each time.

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Originally Posted by Korp

I skimmed through the thread so might missed, but i didnt see a single shred of evidence supporting your claims and numbers of whales die in Japan. You provided some links to Norway which is hardly relevant in this discussion as you can read per topic its "Japanse whaling"



Yet again, no proof provided from you, show it, then you can go back to accusing other people of having false information.

Just one google away and I can see how whaling in general seems very inhumane to hunt.

http://www.ifaw.org/ca/our-work/whales/cruelty-whaling

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A lot of proof has been given, by linking to the Norwegian Government. Your link on the other hand, is not a source, it does not provide any documentation for its claims and it's a propaganda site. Give me statistics.

Also, just one google away and I can see how eating animals in general seems very unhumane. There will always be mistakes and there's million on millions of incidents every year of other animals than whales suffering, such as cows, chicken, turkeys, deer, etc etc.

Also, even that propaganda url you post, which does not provide any documentation for its claims, does NOT agree with Scorpio86. They do NOT claim whales are chopped up alive.


So, yet again, Scorpio86's opinion is founded on false information and really can't be respected. He bases his opinion on whales being chopped up alive and that most whales die a horrific death. This is simply not true. 9 out of 10 Norwegian whales die on impact. I would assume the Japanese are somewhere close, but there is no bulletproof way to hunt an animal and sometimes death will take longer, be it whale, deer, chicken or cow.

Repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true unless you document it with real sources.

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A lot of proof has been given, by linking to the Norwegian Government. Your link on the other hand, is not a source, it does not provide any documentation for its claims and it's a propaganda site. Give me statistics.

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And I think I already mentioned it in the previous post but lets bring it up again, What does Norwegian whaling have to do with Japanese whaling?

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Also, just one google away and I can see how eating animals in general seems very unhumane. There will always be mistakes and there's million on millions of incidents every year of other animals than whales suffering, such as cows, chicken, turkeys, deer, etc etc.

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Yet you cant provide any proof.

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So, yet again, Scorpio86's opinion is founded on false information and really can't be respected.

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What false information, you havent proved him wrong.

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This is simply not true. 9 out of 10 Norwegian whales die on impact.

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I know you norwegians are little behind, but seriously even you cant miss the topic of this thread?

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Repeating something over and over again doesn't make it true unless you document it with real sources.

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What happens in Norway is no way of proving that nothing inhumane is happening in Japan either but yet you seem to think that its okey to give a link to a norwegian goverment site and say its proof that Japanese whaling is okey!

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Originally Posted by Korp

And I think I already mentioned it in the previous post but lets bring it up again, What does Norwegian whaling have to do with Japanese whaling?



Yet you cant provide any proof.



What false information, you havent proved him wrong.



I know you norwegians are little behind, but seriously even you cant miss the topic of this thread?



What happens in Norway is no way of proving that nothing inhumane is happening in Japan either but yet you seem to think that its okey to give a link to a norwegian goverment site and say its proof that Japanese whaling is okey!

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I've already provided proof that millions of animals are brutally killed every year. Yes, non-whale-animals. Read up, or you can access your common knowledge database, or maybe even watch the news. There's several "discoveries" every year.


Also, the Japanese use the same harpoon grenades as Norway, so logic would tell you that Japanese grenades also explode on impact..... Their kill rate might be lower, but it would be difficult NOT to kill whales on impact.


So, again:

1. Whales are NOT chopped up alive. I repeat, NOT chopped up while alive.
2. Whales are killed just as efficiently as any other big game animal who's being hunted and killed, and can be compared with chicken, sheep, turkeys, etc.
3. As above already indicates, the vast majority of whales die on impact.



As a human being, I'm would want to make my decisions based on facts rather than false information. But when someone believes in something too much, that is not always true.

1. Not true.
2. Not true.
3. Not true.

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Originally Posted by stoffi

One of my favourite episodes. :) I wish more americans and other whale hypocrites would watch it and understand it.

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They probably won't watch it cuz they disagree with Southpark and consider them the opposite of their believe.
And should they watch them, they probably wouldn't understand the idea anyway.

Hypocrites can't be tought anything for no matter what good reason there is, it will be ignored, while no matter what flawed reason there is, it will be embrased and admired as being the truth.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

Each to their own.

I never claimed the earth was flat.

Whales are NOT all killed instantly.

My opinion is that whaling is cruel and unecesary, it is done by the Japanese under the guise of scientific research and it is quite often carried out in Australian territorial waters. These are facts.

I tire of repeating myself continually to people who seem only wishing to 'pick arguements'.

Each to their own opinion.

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You keep repeating lies and when they are proved to be lies you move to "each to their own opinion".
And above that you even mention you get tired of repeating yourself.

Dude, did it ever once come to your mind to just STOP repeating yourself instead of posting the same sentence over and over and over and over and over and over and over etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. again?????

You want to discuss things and even start a discussion, but you refuse to open up for others and their opinion.
Worse even, you get angry when someone opposes your vision and shows you its wrong.


The thing you seem to attempt right now is the thing environmental weirdo's do all the time.
Forcing their opinion to others using lies.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

1. Not true.
2. Not true.
3. Not true.

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I wish debate techniques were taught in school....


Saying "not true" isn't an argument nor documentation. I've provided many good sources, and Korp has even provided a site with whale-fanatics who won't claim whales are chopped up alive. In fact, they say it's not happening.


You debate like a child. Give me some arguments, some facts, some documentation, like I have. Until that happens, your opinion is based on false information and you sound like one of those fanatical Christians who vote Santorum. You sound like you are crew on Watson's Sea Sheperd, living in total denial.

I don't have to give you arguments about what i beleive is good and true.

Simply because you disagree with me does not mean you have to be rude mate.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by Korp

What happens in Norway is no way of proving that nothing inhumane is happening in Japan either but yet you seem to think that its okey to give a link to a norwegian goverment site and say its proof that Japanese whaling is okey!

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Maybe this thread isn't about Norwegian whaling, but aside from Norwegians and thanks to Paul Watson and his lies probably nobody knows there is more whaling being done then the whaling shown in whale wars.
But i don't expect the Japanese whaling technic to be to different from the Norwegian.
You'd say the killing is done in the most effective way and from my knowledge from butchering where preventing stress is considered to be very important since stress will result in poor quality meat and whales being mammals to, i expect those things to be somewhat similar in whaling to.
So to me it would make sense the Japanese kill whales using the same technic the Norwegians use.

Of course it might not always go perfect, but environmental groups like IFAW are known to exaggerate whatever they claim.
They make it sound like every single animal is being abused even when it would be less then 1% of the animals.
Exaggeration is the way they get fools to support them.

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Originally Posted by scorpio86

I don't have to give you arguments about what i beleive is good and true.

Simply because you disagree with me does not mean you have to be rude mate.

We shall have to agree to disagree.

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You start a discussion on this forum.
Then the least thing you could do would be participate in a decent discussion.

You however act like a child who wants a cookie, but doesn't get one and just keeps stamping his feet to get his mommy to finally give him one.

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Also, the Japanese use the same harpoon grenades as Norway, so logic would tell you that Japanese grenades also explode on impact..... Their kill rate might be lower, but it would be difficult NOT to kill whales on impact.

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No, it doesnt say anything about their way of whaling, thats rather stupid logical step.

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1. Whales are NOT chopped up alive. I repeat, NOT chopped up while alive.

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3. As above already indicates, the vast majority of whales die on impact.

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No, you provided a link where it states how the statistics looks in Norway, that doesnt account all of the world.

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As a human being, I'm would want to make my decisions based on facts rather than false information. But when someone believes in something too much, that is not always true.

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But you havent provided a single fact about Japanese whaling, all you ahve done is give a link from Norway then trying to claim logical it would work just like that in all parts of the world.

No proof of what has been provided.

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2. Whales are killed just as efficiently as any other big game animal who's being hunted and killed, and can be compared with chicken, sheep, turkeys, etc.

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No proof of that either, and that argument is silly, its okey cause we do it to other animals as well..


I did read your links that you provided, and if you cant point exactly where in the text i cant see any evidence that support your statements like 9/10 whales dies right away. Besides, in Norway they only hunt Minke while in Japan they hunt other whales as well so that kinda botched it all. Besides, the research Japan does about the whaling is being heaviliy criticized by the world community. For example countries like Australia has tries top stop Japanese whaling cause its brings whales to the brink of extinction and inhuman.

And here is a link that provides some information on how "good" those explosive harpoons are..

http://econpapers.repec.org/article/..._3a408-412.htm

etc etc.

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and Korp has even provided a site with whale-fanatics who won't claim whales are chopped up alive. In fact, they say it's not happening.

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You gotta stop smoke that crackpipe, nowhere does it states its not happening in the link i provided. Thou, what it did state was that whales go through a very cruel process before they actually die, let me copy and paste it for you. Like for example, this goes against your so far fictive claim that most whales dies on impact.

Exploding harpoons are often not fatal, and some whales are harpooned multiple times before they die.
Wounded, harpooned whales are dragged to whaling vessels, where they may be speared with more harpoons, shot with high-powered rifles or electrocuted with electrified lances. Some whales are simply strapped against the side of whaling vessels with their blowholes covered until they drown.
Because whales are able to slow their breathing and heart rate, many that appear dead or unconscious are probably still feeling extreme pain.

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Originally Posted by Korp

You gotta stop smoke that crackpipe, nowhere does it states its not happening in the link i provided. Thou, what it did state was that whales go through a very cruel process before they actually die, let me copy and paste it for you. Like for example, this goes against your so far fictive claim that most whales dies on impact.

Exploding harpoons are often not fatal, and some whales are harpooned multiple times before they die.
Wounded, harpooned whales are dragged to whaling vessels, where they may be speared with more harpoons, shot with high-powered rifles or electrocuted with electrified lances. Some whales are simply strapped against the side of whaling vessels with their blowholes covered until they drown.
Because whales are able to slow their breathing and heart rate, many that appear dead or unconscious are probably still feeling extreme pain.

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Well, knowing those "religious" environmental fanatics, i have no doubt they would have added that accusation to the list had it been remotely possible.
Probably that lie was just to much for them to consider using.

ps.
Have you ever been unconsious?
And how much pain did you feel while you were unconsious?
The mere suggestion they would feel pain while being unconsious is just HILARIOUS!!!!
It shows those idiots have no clue at all.

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Well, knowing those "religious" environmental fanatics, i have no doubt they would have added that accusation to the list had it been remotely possible.

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Oh, heavy with the facts here I see, provide hard facts instead of your biased opinions please.

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Have you ever been unconsious?
And how much pain did you feel while you were unconsious?
The mere suggestion they would feel pain while being unconsious is just HILARIOUS!!!!
It shows those idiots have no clue at all.

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Have you studied in whales, for how long what did you study, are you really trying to compare humans with whales? Plus the fact that they write appear unconscious and dont claim that they are it shows more of your idiocy than anything else.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Oh, heavy with the facts here I see, provide hard facts instead of your biased opinions please.

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For a guy who hasn't posted a single fact but only refers to a biased environmental groups site you sure are very keen on blaming others to not show facts and accuse them of being biased.
Again poor debating skills, just like in the other thread.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Have you studied in whales, for how long what did you study, are you really trying to compare humans with whales? Plus the fact that they write appear unconscious and dont claim that they are it shows more of your idiocy than anything else.

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I'm indeed experienced in the matter.
Maybe you need to have a look at a dictionary to find out the meaning of "unconsious" first.

Funny tho, again you claim things which aren't facts while you are the one being most keen on demanding others to provide you with facts and links.
Calling me an idiot (which in fact you do with your referral to idiocy) and hiding it in a sentence which can always be denied should anyone blame you for doing that again shows your hypocrisy.
Start acting the way you demand others to act, instead of using those tricks to make others look bad.

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For a guy who hasn't posted a single fact but only refers to a biased environmental groups site you sure are very keen on blaming others to not show facts and accuse them of being biased.
Again poor debating skills, just like in the other thread.

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And people claiming the other one dont have any debating skills is the one that is lacking arguments, ergo attacking the person instead of the argumetns.

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Maybe you need to have a look at a dictionary to find out the meaning of "unconsious" first.

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I'm indeed experienced in the matter.

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Yet again, nothing of value said, anyone can claim anything on the internet.

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Maybe you need to have a look at a dictionary to find out the meaning of "unconsious" first.

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Maybe you should re-read it again and then try to comprehend that appears unconscious does not equal unconscious.

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Calling me an idiot (which in fact you do with your referral to idiocy) and hiding it in a sentence which can always be denied should anyone blame you for doing that again shows your hypocrisy.

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No, I just was saying your claims was idiocy, smart people can also make idiotic claims.

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Start acting the way you demand others to act, instead of using those tricks to make others look bad.

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Yet again you are trying to discredit the person instead of facing the actual arguments. That said if you had any arguments to being with you probably would have provided them to begin with.