How did USA become such a messed up country?

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12-03-2012, 15:31
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

I'm of the generation that doesn't give a damn. The government won't fix anything until it is wiped clean and their roles rewritten. There is no will to do so at this point.
So I sit here and watch and form opinions. We can talk about things until our faces turn blue but until there is a drastic change, it's not going to be any better. We've
been slipping down the slope for decades because (in my opinion) of partisan politics, they're too worried about their party and not worried enough about what is happening
to the country and the people.

There is a tax on gas here. I'm not sure what the percentage is, if it is state mandated or federalized.

yet again the people can change the government and the world.
12-03-2012, 15:34
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemia

yet again the people can change the government and the world.

As individuals, no they can't. Even the occupy movement failed because there was no plan behind it.
They were just trying to get the issue in the spotlight, which they did but it stalled there because
there was no plan.
12-03-2012, 15:34
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magn

I think industrialized nations need to get off the oil wagon, period.

Nevermind climate change, oil is a limited ressource which is in great part concentrated in a politically unstable areas of the world.

Given our current infrastructure, if the price of oil soared too high, our economy would collapse and a lot of people would starve to death (or freeze to death in the winter for northern nations) and generally have no means of transportation.

Peak oil is a real issue and looking at Republican/Conservative policies, it seems like they will do something about it... when the problem hits us right in the face.

That's not proactive politics, these are politics of reaction and with the knowledge base that we have, we can do a lot better than that.

Sure, renewable alternative energy sources would cost more in the short term, but then how much is the stability and long term well being of the current prosperity we are experiencing worth to you?

For my part, I'd rather have a few less gysmos, but be guaranteed that there will be food on the table 15 years from now.

The problem with modern economy is that it gets hooked on useless crap rather than what we urgently need.

i would disagree, we have survived for thousands of years without such uses of tools, many of them would die simply because they give up. If it came down to it and we went into post apocalyptic would you be the one holding the sword, hunting,, killing, defending yourself and making sure you survive?
12-03-2012, 15:36
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

As individuals, no they can't. Even the occupy movement failed because there was no plan behind it.
They were just trying to get the issue in the spotlight, which they did but it stalled there because
there was no plan.

Yeah true, good point. Yet again even thought, look at the impact the individual made (a lot of antics and funniness on the news and worldwide ;) ) the fact is, if you take from his mistake and learn one person really can change the world. And I do not care what skeptics say im not letting go of my dream.
12-03-2012, 16:07
flutterby

The individuals made us look more ignorant to the world.
12-03-2012, 17:06
Magn

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

Because if you put your mind to it, you can still achieve anything in the US. If you disagree then i feel sad for you. Money isnt the problem, greed isnt the problem, people with power is not the problem, the government is not the problem, the problem lies in people inable to work at what they love and to be happy themselves. So instead of working, they complain about sh*t. Stop giving up + feeling so hopeless, and thinking theres a problem with everything; lifes not supposed to be so easy, imperfection is what makes the world beautiful...

Actually, upward mobility has been better in Canada than in the US for some time.

Sure, some people are rock solid and will manage to get to the top no matter in which crappy situation they are put in, but you are looking at less than 1% of the population here.

The self-made man is a myth.

In reality, you need a support infrastructure in place for people to live up to their full potential.

It is a "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemia

i would disagree, we have survived for thousands of years without such uses of tools, many of them would die simply because they give up. If it came down to it and we went into post apocalyptic would you be the one holding the sword, hunting,, killing, defending yourself and making sure you survive?

In the short term, a post-apocaliptic scenario would involve a bunch of ex-cops/military holding the local mall at gun point.

A modern city is a like a concrete desert and is highly dependent on food imports.

But sure, I would fight for my survival like anybody else would. You are naive if you believe that most people would give up on their immediate survival, lay down and die.

However, why do you fantasize about living in the gutter so much?

You fancy dying of old age at 35 or worrying solely about what you'll put in your mouth tomorrow rather than engage in higher level philosophical considerations?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tris06

I would agree with the americans comments on one thing.

Power Alternatives are too exspensive and therefore not cost effective compared to other forms.

I think the move to electric cars is a good move for short distance driving.. aka under 200km round trips. Then this brings up the issue of how to generate the electricity. Yes over time we should move away from fossil fuels which like oil it has a finite resource.

I am very supportive of more nuclear and hopefully in the not long term future fusion energy.
Just for those who want to know while fission engergy..aka Nuclear power. Fussion is the same as what happens in our sun. While sounds little futuristic they are building a world first trail power station in France.

Now assuming proper funding nuclear presently can be very safe form of energy and few have ever died from nuclear disasters. I am sad to see my Australian government which is far more socialist than say USA democrats dont even consider this.

I think a feasible scenario involving renewable energy would involve a combination of using energy more efficiently along with relying on several different sources of energy rather than 1 (wind, solar, hydro, etc, etc).

You know where the state of the art solar technology lies atm? In China.

They have a village over there that is 88% solar powered.

We need to move away from petroleum BEFORE alternative energy sources become more cost effective, because by then, the cost effectiveness of petroleum might take a free fall and we'll want to jump ship ASAP, not in 10-20 years while the infrastructure is being setup.
12-03-2012, 18:14
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magn

Actually, upward mobility has been better in Canada than in the US for some time.

Sure, some people are rock solid and will manage to get to the top no matter in which crappy situation they are put in, but you are looking at less than 1% of the population here.

The self-made man is a myth.

In reality, you need a support infrastructure in place for people to live up to their full potential.

It is a "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" situation.

In the short term, a post-apocaliptic scenario would involve a bunch of ex-cops/military holding the local mall at gun point.

A modern city is a like a concrete desert and is highly dependent on food imports.

But sure, I would fight for my survival like anybody else would. You are naive if you believe that most people would give up on their immediate survival, lay down and die.

However, why do you fantasize about living in the gutter so much?

You fancy dying of old age at 35 or worrying solely about what you'll put in your mouth tomorrow rather than engage in higher level philosophical considerations?

I think a feasible scenario involving renewable energy would involve a combination of using energy more efficiently along with relying on several different sources of energy rather than 1 (wind, solar, hydro, etc, etc).

You know where the state of the art solar technology lies atm? In China.

They have a village over there that is 88% solar powered.

We need to move away from petroleum BEFORE alternative energy sources become more cost effective, because by then, the cost effectiveness of petroleum might take a free fall and we'll want to jump ship ASAP, not in 10-20 years while the infrastructure is being setup.

I never suggested anything about dying. I said giving up (not the same thing)
Alright, maybe that is contradictory; yet, living to fight another day was the point I wanted to get across. Cops and military personnel holding malls at gun point and grocery stores, blocking off roadways, highways, and yeah im sure there will be lots of bloodshed and war amongst even the neighbors. the fact is, when youdo this and intact the violence of post apocalyptic world it is what they want you to do.
giving up is fighting against one another and killing each other instead of attempting to come together and find a solution, they want you to fight they are causing it now. don't you see it?
12-03-2012, 22:45
KuhaN

Quote:

That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.

America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.

Yes, it will be harder to succeed, but not impossible, so it's not a myth.

Imo, America is the greatest country ever.

Yes, all great countries fall down eventually. That's something we'll have to deal with in the future if it's inevitable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magn

Actually, upward mobility has been better in Canada than in the US for some time.

Sure, some people are rock solid and will manage to get to the top no matter in which crappy situation they are put in, but you are looking at less than 1% of the population here.

The self-made man is a myth.

In reality, you need a support infrastructure in place for people to live up to their full potential.

It is a "the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts" situation.

And the "99% of the population" bit is where the problem lies. Survival of the fittest buddy, and the unfit die. There is a population crisis going on in the planet, obviously Earth will not be able to sustain billions of people for too long. Better get off your ass and start acting, instead of wasting your time on here *****ing.

It's a cruel world we live in.
12-03-2012, 23:02
Azartyn

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

You disgrace your American fellows and help build up the stereotype the world has about Americans, the stereotype of the ignorant cowboy. "Who cares about knowledge, eh? We are the best anyways"

As Flutterby says, what about those that work two jobs and still have to go on welfare? There's 12.8 million unemployed people in the States, most of them unwillingly unemployed. 22% of all children in the US are poor children, despite having parents who work their arses off with 2 jobs and a wage no Western European would touch. I'd like to see you tell them that they have a choice.
In addition, The official poverty measure has been criticized for not accounting for several factors that can affect a family's economic well-being and for not having been updated, except for inflation, for four decades. Aka, the real figure is probably a lot higher.

The US can only be compared with former Soviet countries in Eastern Europe in this.

The notion about poor people being lazy was a term that lived through the Dark Ages and only just disappeared in the 19th century. But for people without history, it's hard to learn from past mistakes. Poor people in the US work several jobs but the minimum wage is just too low, they can't afford proper food, they can't afford healthcare, they can't afford to educate their children. What hope do they have? Their children will most likely end up in the same situation as themselves because you have to PAY to go to uni, and they are not likely to finish High School.

In Norway, university is free, you get 1100 dollars per month in scholarship/loan(you get the scholarship only if you pass the exams) by the government, investing in your education so that you may provide for it when you are finished, and help Norway prosper. We have no minimum wage but I don't know about any jobs which pay less than 20 dollars per hour, thus making the "poor" able to stay with us in society, paying taxes, buying goods, fueling the economy, lowering crime, etc.
We don't have crime except for junkies, Eastern Europeans gangs/groups who visit and certain immigrant groups who rape our daughters and rob our sons.

NO ONE CHOOSES to stay in poverty. NO ONE! It's a myth existing in your head and in many Americans' heads. Those of us who know a bit about society and history can see further than our own noses, not repeating the errors of those before us again and again, as you are.

And yes, many people don't pay enough taxes in the US. I'm sure you've heard about the Buffet Tax which Obama is trying to impose. The fact that Buffet's secretary has to pay a lot more than Buffet(in relative terms) is just wow....

Also, you don't know a lot about other countries if you think taxation is bad in the US. E.g. taxation of the dead is quite normal, and your company taxes are NOT high.

Hard work and personal responsibility will NOT get you out of poverty and poverty is now at its highest in a long time. They just need some social mobility.

That's a myth. Land of the free and the brave. It used to be true and is still true if you got money. It is a lot easier to succeed in European countries where you don't start off as low as you do in the US. If the starting point is lower, it will be harder to succeed.

America is definitively not the greatest country ever. You should go study some history. :) Also, when you read history, remember that all great countries fall down eventually, often from within when corruption and greed takes over, as it is in the US today. It happened to Sparta, it happened to Rome.

Stoffi, you do not have your facts straight whatsoever. 22% of children in this country are in poverty? Really? They have flat screeen TVs, cell phones, their parents have TWO CARS. Poverty huh? Really? How about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS and if you cant afford to have a baby KEEP YOUR DAMN LEGS CLOSED.
Again, have FACTS not what you THINK is correct.

Oh and if the European countries are SO much better then why are they all going bankrupt and trying to implement austerity measures? Greece, Portugal, Spain, France, England? Any of them ring a bell. What happens when you take someone's freebies away? They riot and throw Molotov cocktails at police officers. The ONLY strong country in the European union right now is Germany.

Stoffi...FACT - The US DOES have the HIGHEST CORPORATE tax rate in the WORLD. It used to be Japan but they just lowered theirs. Please get the truth before you make yourself look more foolish. I live here, I used to own a business here and I KNOW what I paid in taxes.

Let me ask you a few simple questions Stoffi, since you're such a genius and have the solution to all the worlds problems....
1. Why do 50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax and the top 5% pay 80% of ALL the taxes?
2. Why do single women keep having babies if they cant afford the ones they have now?
3. If so many people are in poverty...whats going to happen when they run out of OTHERS PEOPLES MONEY? Where do they get their money from then? Damn sure isnt the government. The government doesn't PRODUCE ANYTHING!!(except dependents) and FORCIBLY TAKES what people actually do WORK FOR.

I have some more questions for your brain, but lets see how well you answer these first.

OMG! I just reread your post...the BUFFET TAX? REALLY? LMFAO! Shows just how ignorant you really are. You must watch MSNBC. The taxes Buffet's secretary pays are INCOME TAXES. The taxes Warren Buffet pays are CAPITAL GAINS TAX(15%) from money he earned that was ALREADY TAXED at 33%. So Buffet is paying taxes on money he earns TWICE. *shakes head* Also, if Buffet was SO interested in paying taxes why is Berkshire Hathaway (Buffets Company) fighting so they dont have to pay like $1 billion in BACK taxes? Hypocrisy? I think so! Again, you show your ignorance.
12-03-2012, 23:37
Azartyn

Magn, what happened in Europe last winter with "wind" power? I recall the windmill motors freezing up and they had to use electricity to defrost them..yeah if I remember correctly a few people died. Why is solar state of the art in China? Because they pay their people 1.50 a week in wages. Is that why they made Nobel Prize winner disappear? Just so you say Im lying...heres the article.

Monday, February 6, 2012
Europe Freezes, People Die Like Flies
Europe baffled after spending 20 years getting ready for global warming, leaving them virtually unprepared for winters of this severity. Their wind turbines are frozen solid, meaning their energy strategy to heat homes with electricity instead of traditional oil is just another tragic casualty of the absolute junk science of globowarmthinkery. They need to drag Michael Mann behind a snowplow naked through Belgium while starving toddlers spit hard snap loogies at him in passing. When they get to the city limits they should force him to swim the Salton Sea. With it's high saline content I am sure it will be as warm as a sauna bath from the ambient air temperature and he should have no difficulty making it to the other side.

The inhabitants of Europe will no doubt enjoy this lovely temperate spring thaw because the cold that is coming is going to make this look like the Bermuda islands in the middle of June

or how about another?

In one spectacular incident yesterday a 300ft wind turbine exploded in flames as it was buffeted by the high winds.

Another wind turbine was completely blown down on Wednesday, raising questions about the ability of wind farms to cope with the weather.

The flaming ?2million wind turbine was in Ardrossan, North Ayrshire, Scotland. Witnesses said its blades were locked at the time, because the National Grid would be unable to cope with a sudden power surge.

Photographer Stuart McMahon, who took the incredible image, said: ‘The centre of the turbine caught fire first and the flames spread to the covering of the blades.

‘There was burning debris being swept off in the wind and across the fields. These are huge structures and to see one on fire was a spectacular sight.’

The turbine knocked over by high winds near Coldingham in the Borders caused several homes to be evacuated and a road to be closed.

Ok...you must live in Bizarro world or something. HOW can you move away from the main source of power in the world BEFORE something else becomes cheaper? If the free market could do it easier and thought it was a better solution there would be MANY MANY MANY people doing it.
13-03-2012, 03:33
nooblet

blah blah tea party polemics.
blah blah blatant lies.

it goes on and on...
13-03-2012, 04:21
Mordus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuriho

special interest groups dictating government policies.

Yup
13-03-2012, 06:48
stoffi

I'll respond to posts later today, just had to post this really quick:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1338990.html

This is why everyone should not be allowed to vote and why I think the US has got SERIOUS problems.
13-03-2012, 07:31
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

I'll respond to posts later today, just had to post this really quick:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1338990.html

This is why everyone should not be allowed to vote and why I think the US has got SERIOUS problems.

Rofl dude, do you really think americans are like what you hear in the news? The media has got you brainwashed.
13-03-2012, 08:14
kenshin

McDonald's! xD
13-03-2012, 12:33
Azartyn

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

I'll respond to posts later today, just had to post this really quick:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1338990.html

This is why everyone should not be allowed to vote and why I think the US has got SERIOUS problems.

First off...The Huffington Post is NOT a credible news source. Secondly...FYI Stoffi the PPP is a DEMOCRATIC run polling group. Again, facts please. Arrianna Huffington is a hypocrite. She was a republican...then a democrat..then republican. She follows the money like any smart business women however her ethics are less than desirable.

You are correct...some people should not vote. Since you want to post links. Ill give you THIS one and can supply many more like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA
13-03-2012, 12:36
Azartyn

Quote:

Originally Posted by nooblet

blah blah tea party polemics.
blah blah blatant lies.

it goes on and on...

nooblet...what is wrong with wanting smaller government control, less government spending and FREEDOM that is given to us in the Constitution. Something that this president has blatant contempt for. I'm not saying the republicans are perfect either. Bush did the Patriot act that was against it as well. The republicans have lost their way since Reagan.

Oh and nooblet...what part is a lie? Give me facts.
13-03-2012, 12:42
Azartyn

Quote Originally Posted by Nuriho View Post
special interest groups dictating government policies.

This I agree with on BOTH sides of the aisle. The only way to stop it is to outlaw lobbying and that will never happen Im afraid.
13-03-2012, 15:41
Korp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azartyn

First off...The Huffington Post is NOT a credible news source. Secondly...FYI Stoffi the PPP is a DEMOCRATIC run polling group. Again, facts please. Arrianna Huffington is a hypocrite. She was a republican...then a democrat..then republican. She follows the money like any smart business women however her ethics are less than desirable.

You are correct...some people should not vote. Since you want to post links. Ill give you THIS one and can supply many more like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA

Perhaps what you should first of all do is provide sources to your own claims then start to complain about others, then you wont look so foolish :)
13-03-2012, 16:11
Azartyn

Quote:

Originally Posted by Korp

Perhaps what you should first of all do is provide sources to your own claims then start to complain about others, then you wont look so foolish :)

Korp, if you have nothing to add to the conversation other than ignorance...STFU! All you are trying to do is start trouble like normal with no intelligent input and add to your post count. Troll.

how about this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI

or how about this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3e41...eature=related
13-03-2012, 18:18
Korp

Quote:

Korp, if you have nothing to add to the conversation other than ignorance...STFU! All you are trying to do is start trouble like normal with no intelligent input and add to your post count. Troll.

Oh this post is so ironic :) You dont find it at all slightly dumb that you complain about other peoples sources and go writing "facts please" while you didnt yourself provide any source to begin with, had no facts either just opinions, biased opinions as well. I dont thou see how those two youtube videos discredits Huffington post for example as not a "credible source". You on the other hand seem to trying to rack up some posts since you made three while you easily could have just made one :)
13-03-2012, 18:20
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

Rofl dude, do you really think americans are like what you hear in the news? The media has got you brainwashed.

Most American's I know are like they report in the news. :P
13-03-2012, 18:30
octobrev

^is true.
13-03-2012, 20:54
Magn

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

And the "99% of the population" bit is where the problem lies. Survival of the fittest buddy, and the unfit die.

Natural Selection nuts make me laugh.

They watch all those action movies and then figure that the fitness of someone is measured by how well they would survive in the jungle with a spear (or some modern variation).

I wonder how geniuses like Einstein or Newton would have fared under those standards.

If you look at some of the greatest systems on the planet (the human body included), they include parts that could not survive on their own, but that thrive as a group.

Isolationism was never our strong suit. Hundreds of species fare way better as lone wolves than we do.

Our most significant technical or social advances are the fruit of contributions from hundreds of individuals.

Yes, there is a natural selection, but where you err is in it's scope. Survival for a specie as social as human beings is not measured at the individual level, but at a group level.

Can we get our act together, capitalize everyone's strengths and help them overcome their weaknesses?

When someone that is a valuable member of your society needs a hand, will you prop him up or laugh in his face and call him weak?

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

There is a population crisis going on in the planet, obviously Earth will not be able to sustain billions of people for too long. Better get off your ass and start acting, instead of wasting your time on here *****ing.

It's a cruel world we live in.

First of all, you have no idea what I'm doing so you can't rightly assume that I'm sitting on my ass doing nothing (my profession does require a lot of sitting however so I'll make you right on the first half of your statement).

Second, debating about my viewpoints is a lot different from *****ing.
13-03-2012, 21:01
KuhaN

So you guys think Americans really care about Obamas religion? Might be true for ppl over the age of 40, but not the case, at least, for the younger generation.

I dont think this has anything to do with America tbh, it's more of an age problem. The traditional and older generation will care about Obamas religion, while the younger generation will probably care less. This is probably the case all around the world, not just in America.

Agree or disagree?
13-03-2012, 21:07
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magn

Natural Selection nuts make me laugh.

They watch all those action movies and then figure that the fitness of someone is measured by how well they would survive in the jungle with a spear (or some modern variation).

I wonder how geniuses like Einstein or Newton would have fared under those standards.

If you look at some of the greatest systems on the planet (the human body included), they include parts that could not survive on their own, but that thrive as a group.

Isolationism was never our strong suit. Hundreds of species fare way better as lone wolves than we do.

Our most significant technical or social advances are the fruit of contributions from hundreds of individuals.

Yes, there is a natural selection, but where you err is in it's scope. Survival for a specie as social as human beings is not measured at the individual level, but at a group level.

Can we get our act together, capitalize everyone's strengths and help them overcome their weaknesses?

When someone that is a valuable member of your society needs a hand, will you prop him up or laugh in his face and call him weak?

First of all, you have no idea what I'm doing so you can't rightly assume that I'm sitting on my ass doing nothing (my profession does require a lot of sitting however so I'll make you right on the first half of your statement).

Second, debating about my viewpoints is a lot different from *****ing.

So im supposed to help people that cannot help themselves? No thanks. And those technological innovations came from less than 1% of the population.

I recommend reading this book by Ayn Rand: "Atlas Shrugged".

After you finish reading it come back to me, it might take you awhile though. Remember to read the entire book, not just a page and then be judgemental about it because you didnt agree with the first page.

Also, one last thing, if i deem a person is valuable to me and to society then obviously i would help this person. However, the problem is that i dont see too many people as valuable to society or to myself.

Would i ever give money to a homeless beggar on the streets? Never in my life.
14-03-2012, 02:42
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

So you guys think Americans really care about Obamas religion? Might be true for ppl over the age of 40, but not the case, at least, for the younger generation.

I dont think this has anything to do with America tbh, it's more of an age problem. The traditional and older generation will care about Obamas religion, while the younger generation will probably care less. This is probably the case all around the world, not just in America.

Agree or disagree?

I care as much about Obama's religion as I did with Clinton's tryst in the oval office. Not much at all. What people do behind closed doors matters little to me. I'm one of the few. I don't like the conservatives and I can't stand the liberals either. I think that there is so much talk about how things should be changed and not enough actual change. I think.. I've been repeating myself :P
14-03-2012, 09:28
KuhaN

Theres one specific reason why I might shift sides and tend to agree with you guys about USA being a messed up Country and that is:

Online poker being illegal in the country :/

If they never regulate it ill likely be moving in the future lol, when i have money and stuff saved up. I would really miss a lot of things in the States though as well. saD :/ I hate the US government, but i love our culture and people.
14-03-2012, 15:52
stoffi

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

Yes, it will be harder to succeed, but not impossible, so it's not a myth.

Imo, America is the greatest country ever.

Yes, all great countries fall down eventually. That's something we'll have to deal with in the future if it's inevitable.

I'm glad to see you are not that naive.

It IS harder to succeed in the US than in most other Western countries, thus robbing the country of its former slogans saying how easy it is to be selfmade. Upwards mobility can be extremely difficult in the US, unlike e.g. Norway where everyone got the same chances of education and NON-poverty(except if your parents are heroin addicts/plain bad).

So yeah, it is a MYTH that the US is so much easier to make it in than in other countries. I'd never work in the US ever because of the poor employment conditions(and that's often the general opinion), and I will soon be having a MA in English and a teacher's license.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azartyn

Stoffi, you do not have your facts straight whatsoever. 22% of children in this country are in poverty? Really? They have flat screeen TVs, cell phones, their parents have TWO CARS. Poverty huh? Really? How about PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY and LIVING WITHIN YOUR MEANS and if you cant afford to have a baby KEEP YOUR DAMN LEGS CLOSED.
Again, have FACTS not what you THINK is correct.

Oh and if the European countries are SO much better then why are they all going bankrupt and trying to implement austerity measures? Greece, Portugal, Spain, France, England? Any of them ring a bell. What happens when you take someone's freebies away? They riot and throw Molotov cocktails at police officers. The ONLY strong country in the European union right now is Germany.

Stoffi...FACT - The US DOES have the HIGHEST CORPORATE tax rate in the WORLD. It used to be Japan but they just lowered theirs. Please get the truth before you make yourself look more foolish. I live here, I used to own a business here and I KNOW what I paid in taxes.

Let me ask you a few simple questions Stoffi, since you're such a genius and have the solution to all the worlds problems....
1. Why do 50% of Americans pay ZERO income tax and the top 5% pay 80% of ALL the taxes?
2. Why do single women keep having babies if they cant afford the ones they have now?
3. If so many people are in poverty...whats going to happen when they run out of OTHERS PEOPLES MONEY? Where do they get their money from then? Damn sure isnt the government. The government doesn't PRODUCE ANYTHING!!(except dependents) and FORCIBLY TAKES what people actually do WORK FOR.

I have some more questions for your brain, but lets see how well you answer these first.

OMG! I just reread your post...the BUFFET TAX? REALLY? LMFAO! Shows just how ignorant you really are. You must watch MSNBC. The taxes Buffet's secretary pays are INCOME TAXES. The taxes Warren Buffet pays are CAPITAL GAINS TAX(15%) from money he earned that was ALREADY TAXED at 33%. So Buffet is paying taxes on money he earns TWICE. *shakes head* Also, if Buffet was SO interested in paying taxes why is Berkshire Hathaway (Buffets Company) fighting so they dont have to pay like $1 billion in BACK taxes? Hypocrisy? I think so! Again, you show your ignorance.

Caaaaalm down....

22% of all children in the US grow up in poverty, yes, and it would seem as if your ignorance is coming out here. Poor by US standards, not African standards. And in Africa, even the poor got cell phones... Also, as I said, millions of millions of Americans work several jobs, they work around the clock and they spend their money on FOOD for their family. Your picture of the poor man in the US has no roots in reality, you live in the 19th century claiming the poor waste aaaaall their money on luxury goods and are poor because they "choose to be".

I reckon you are around 16-20 years old or something, but my advice to you is to go to University when you are old enough and volunteer for a poor-aid program or something, so that you may see how it really is.

Keep your legs closed you say, but the Republicans are against prevention and abortions. Prevention and abortion is quite possibly the best crime/poverty fighter out there because most of the babies aborted are "unwanted" and for a reason. Around 15-20 years after the US made abortion legal, huge results on the crime statistics were seen, as in Australia and Romania as well.

The US economy is in as much negative balance as certain European countries, but can survive it much better.

1) Get your facts straight. The top 5% pay 58.7%(2009) of all income taxes. That just goes to show the huge social differences that exist in the US, a class divided society reminding us about the UK early 20th century. (If you know anything about that)
50% pay very little because they don't earn much money. I was hoping that would ring some bells with you, but apparently not....

2) That's just how it is, and why prevention and abortion must be made available. It will cost less to give it freely than to let the children be born into poverty and crime. It's that like here as well, people coming from poor conditions are often the ones getting babies early.
3) Well, those poor people aren't just going to sit on their arses all day long. They will get jobs(jobs paying more than 6 dollars, which is useless), commit less crime due to less need and their children will get a much, much better start to society and have a much better chance of growing up to be something else than a trailer trash criminal.

Yes, the Buffet tax. He never paid 33% tax, his company did and the money stays with company. If he wants money from the company, he should pay normal taxes like everyone else.

I'm just glad I wasn't born into a lower half American family. I would never be able to go to University and make something out of myself and I would probably end up in some poor arse 6 dollars per hour job, if even that, whilst living in a trailer or a dump.

Also, fix your attitude. You strike me as a young, angry boy who lacks the ability to debate. Stop calling people names, stop using caps, stop debating like a 12 year old.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

Rofl dude, do you really think americans are like what you hear in the news? The media has got you brainwashed.

Not all ofc, but numbers don't lie. Just a few years ago, there was a survey amongst FOX NEWS viewers whether or not they believed Iraq had WMD's. This was many years after the invasion ofc, only a few years ago. Somewhere around 2/3 thought Iraq had WMD's....

Hail ignorance and they seem to vote Republican.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azartyn

First off...The Huffington Post is NOT a credible news source. Secondly...FYI Stoffi the PPP is a DEMOCRATIC run polling group. Again, facts please. Arrianna Huffington is a hypocrite. She was a republican...then a democrat..then republican. She follows the money like any smart business women however her ethics are less than desirable.

You are correct...some people should not vote. Since you want to post links. Ill give you THIS one and can supply many more like it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA

It's true enough for Norwegian media to print it in newspapers. Also, as I said before this, other surveys suggest the very same thing, 50% of Americans aren't very bright.

Also, please prove YOUR claims. In addition, youtube is no source unless the video is made by a credible source.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuhaN

So you guys think Americans really care about Obamas religion? Might be true for ppl over the age of 40, but not the case, at least, for the younger generation.

I dont think this has anything to do with America tbh, it's more of an age problem. The traditional and older generation will care about Obamas religion, while the younger generation will probably care less. This is probably the case all around the world, not just in America.

Agree or disagree?

Ofc Americans care about religion. A poll about presidential candidates showed that the WORST possible thing a presidential candidate could be was ATHEIST, which was worse than being gay. (And let's face it, many, many republicans hate gays really bad) Also, the republican presidential campaign can be summarised in 3 words, God, Gays and Guns. It seems to be a competition in who is the most Christian.

So yeah, religion is essential.

Keeping people in poverty will only limit yourselves. Let their children have a real chance to grow up and be something and you will see a huge difference benefitting everyone, even the rich.
14-03-2012, 16:16
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

Ofc Americans care about religion. A poll about presidential candidates showed that the WORST possibly thing a presidential candidate could be was ATHEIST, which was worse than being gay. (And let's face it, many, many republicans hate gays really bad) Also, the republican presidential campaign can be summarised in 3 words, God, Gays and Guns. It seems to be a competition in who is the most Christian.

We need to discuss on IRC or MSN or something. Would be interesting.
14-03-2012, 20:34
KuhaN

Still think it's an age issue (regarding the religion bit).
15-03-2012, 00:14
flutterby

It's not an age issue, it's regional.
15-03-2012, 02:52
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

It's not an age issue, it's regional.

In America it's an age issue.
15-03-2012, 03:35
flutterby

They call it the Bible belt for a reason, it regional. I live in an area where there is a young community that are very religious and older people who are atheists.
I'm on the East Coast, in between two major cities. Age is not strictly a factor here and the mid-west and southern states religion is prevalent because of the
location. Sorry hon, I'm not religious, I haven't raised my kids to be religious and they are. I also study religious history for 'fun'.
15-03-2012, 04:19
KuhaN

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

They call it the Bible belt for a reason, it regional. I live in an area where there is a young community that are very religious and older people who are atheists.
I'm on the East Coast, in between two major cities. Age is not strictly a factor here and the mid-west and southern states religion is prevalent because of the
location. Sorry hon, I'm not religious, I haven't raised my kids to be religious and they are. I also study religious history for 'fun'.

In california it's an age issue.

If its regional then why are all the kids so laid back about it, while their parents are religious? I see it everywhere, stats has nothing on first hand experiences.
15-03-2012, 04:20
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

They call it the Bible belt for a reason, it regional. I live in an area where there is a young community that are very religious and older people who are atheists.
I'm on the East Coast, in between two major cities. Age is not strictly a factor here and the mid-west and southern states religion is prevalent because of the
location. Sorry hon, I'm not religious, I haven't raised my kids to be religious and they are. I also study religious history for 'fun'.

our greatest history book is the "bible" or "holy scriptures" lol

maybe the quaran(forgive me for spelling) would be an even better choice for a history book?

I am from the mid-west and while i believe in a greater power, or something above us that is not human or of this world. I am not religious. How many aspiring scientists do you know that are religious? The Mid-West is also highly dependent on its technology, there is also an issue of lack of population to help us sustain the work and care for others.
15-03-2012, 04:36
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

I'm glad to see you are not that naive.

It IS harder to succeed in the US than in most other Western countries, thus robbing the country of its former slogans saying how easy it is to be selfmade. Upwards mobility can be extremely difficult in the US, unlike e.g. Norway where everyone got the same chances of education and NON-poverty(except if your parents are heroin addicts/plain bad).

So yeah, it is a MYTH that the US is so much easier to make it in than in other countries. I'd never work in the US ever because of the poor employment conditions(and that's often the general opinion), and I will soon be having a MA in English and a teacher's license.

Caaaaalm down....

22% of all children in the US grow up in poverty, yes, and it would seem as if your ignorance is coming out here. Poor by US standards, not African standards. And in Africa, even the poor got cell phones... Also, as I said, millions of millions of Americans work several jobs, they work around the clock and they spend their money on FOOD for their family. Your picture of the poor man in the US has no roots in reality, you live in the 19th century claiming the poor waste aaaaall their money on luxury goods and are poor because they "choose to be".

I reckon you are around 16-20 years old or something, but my advice to you is to go to University when you are old enough and volunteer for a poor-aid program or something, so that you may see how it really is.

Keep your legs closed you say, but the Republicans are against prevention and abortions. Prevention and abortion is quite possibly the best crime/poverty fighter out there because most of the babies aborted are "unwanted" and for a reason. Around 15-20 years after the US made abortion legal, huge results on the crime statistics were seen, as in Australia and Romania as well.

The US economy is in as much negative balance as certain European countries, but can survive it much better.

1) Get your facts straight. The top 5% pay 58.7%(2009) of all income taxes. That just goes to show the huge social differences that exist in the US, a class divided society reminding us about the UK early 20th century. (If you know anything about that)
50% pay very little because they don't earn much money. I was hoping that would ring some bells with you, but apparently not....

2) That's just how it is, and why prevention and abortion must be made available. It will cost less to give it freely than to let the children be born into poverty and crime. It's that like here as well, people coming from poor conditions are often the ones getting babies early.
3) Well, those poor people aren't just going to sit on their arses all day long. They will get jobs(jobs paying more than 6 dollars, which is useless), commit less crime due to less need and their children will get a much, much better start to society and have a much better chance of growing up to be something else than a trailer trash criminal.

Yes, the Buffet tax. He never paid 33% tax, his company did and the money stays with company. If he wants money from the company, he should pay normal taxes like everyone else.

I'm just glad I wasn't born into a lower half American family. I would never be able to go to University and make something out of myself and I would probably end up in some poor arse 6 dollars per hour job, if even that, whilst living in a trailer or a dump.

Also, fix your attitude. You strike me as a young, angry boy who lacks the ability to debate. Stop calling people names, stop using caps, stop debating like a 12 year old.

Not all ofc, but numbers don't lie. Just a few years ago, there was a survey amongst FOX NEWS viewers whether or not they believed Iraq had WMD's. This was many years after the invasion ofc, only a few years ago. Somewhere around 2/3 thought Iraq had WMD's....

Hail ignorance and they seem to vote Republican.

It's true enough for Norwegian media to print it in newspapers. Also, as I said before this, other surveys suggest the very same thing, 50% of Americans aren't very bright.

Also, please prove YOUR claims. In addition, youtube is no source unless the video is made by a credible source.

Ofc Americans care about religion. A poll about presidential candidates showed that the WORST possible thing a presidential candidate could be was ATHEIST, which was worse than being gay. (And let's face it, many, many republicans hate gays really bad) Also, the republican presidential campaign can be summarised in 3 words, God, Gays and Guns. It seems to be a competition in who is the most Christian.

So yeah, religion is essential.

Keeping people in poverty will only limit yourselves. Let their children have a real chance to grow up and be something and you will see a huge difference benefitting everyone, even the rich.

you know, you have many claims and many suggestions, you want to know why Americans are the way they are? They look to their government to fix things and rely on them to solve their problems; despite the fact, we are a community resolved around volunteerism and god. We are very giving and happy place, if you only look at the negatives of us as a generality then its all you can comprehend to see, compensating to assume that in that 50% the other 50% is similar and the same to one and alike. While this brings room for rebuttal and opposition I suggest and ask for an opinion. But i would just guess your common knowledge of our country will just put this into the back burner yet again and you be looking like the almighty brain you are. Situational awareness is a difference compared to the studies and smarts of books and universities; moreover, just like you stated before not all Americans have the opportunity of free education so in a way. I feel as though you say we just lay down and accept our fates and die slowly while letting our government run our lives, which is what america has come to. so tell me, is this what you think?
15-03-2012, 05:10
Kemia

I mean yes, many young Americans if not all (like me) are ignorant; moreover, very ignorant to the fact of what happens in the world around us.

1) either because we do not care
2) we do not watch the news and are caught up in our own problems and worrying about feeding ourselves or our assignments (studies, believe it or not there are many more opportunities than you think in the states)
3) it does not pertain to us
4) making ridiculously long lists that no one will bother reading because they do not care
5) read the above and tell me if I am missing something "The wise stoffi"

(and I literally mean wise, you are quite versed in the term of what we Americans would call "BullSh!t" that is what we call debate, yet many of us are so blind to the fact and our morals and ideals that we cannot get past our own self indulgences; however, I think this can be said as a general sense for just about any human ;) )
15-03-2012, 05:57
stoffi

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kemia

our greatest history book is the "bible" or "holy scriptures" lol

maybe the quaran(forgive me for spelling) would be an even better choice for a history book?

I am from the mid-west and while i believe in a greater power, or something above us that is not human or of this world. I am not religious. How many aspiring scientists do you know that are religious? The Mid-West is also highly dependent on its technology, there is also an issue of lack of population to help us sustain the work and care for others.

No time to respond to more atm, will do later, but the Bible and the Quaran are NOT history books. All the stories are written down hundreds of years after it actually happened and most stories are full of human superstition. Noah's arch is one such thing which never happened as it is quite impossible, but with their limited knowledge back then, they thought it possible.
There is history in the Bible though, just get it confirmed from real history books first. The Bible is first and foremost a book of BELIEF.
15-03-2012, 13:50
Kemia

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoffi

No time to respond to more atm, will do later, but the Bible and the Quaran are NOT history books. All the stories are written down hundreds of years after it actually happened and most stories are full of human superstition. Noah's arch is one such thing which never happened as it is quite impossible, but with their limited knowledge back then, they thought it possible.
There is history in the Bible though, just get it confirmed from real history books first. The Bible is first and foremost a book of BELIEF.

there is a saying that we students use my friend "you gotta get through the fluff of a book to get the facts or the knowledge you seek" ;) (have you ever heard of it before?, and while the bible is a book of belief so is the quaran, yet there are historical marks in it. So who's to say a bunch of old men from ancient greece or even sumeria [E.G. they built on it over and over? from past generations to their present]) Then again to state the bible is a lie made of human superstition within a modern era is either a claim or opinion?

However, the point in term that you say they write it after it actually happened hundreds of years before. this would confirm the above, yes?

To hold a claim that can be true like this yes, but yet if it were released we would see a modern version of the "book of eli" I assume you've seen that movie too?

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