...
Printable View
...
My view without knowing what the CF are and notice durations:
1) If CR notices AMA legit and when they are meant too, I see no problems as it is AMA's fault for making 2 CF expire the same time. Therefore if AMA waves pyro and Havoc waves AMA, AMA has created its own 2v1. If CR cancels and does not abide to original terms then that is a problem.
2) If AMA was smart enough to make a deal that expires with Pyro before Havoc's notice ends and they are in a legit hostile and CR hits into that, that is a problem. If however CR allows AMA to war Pyro/get their hostilities out of the way before they hit and hits them straight when EOWCF drops, that is fair. I don't think it is fair if Havoc cf notice is say 96 hours, pyro's is 48 hours so AMA/Pyro have been in a clear hostile for 2 days etc and THEN Havoc hits.
3) If Pyro and AMA have the exact same CF as Havoc and AMA arranges to war a tick before to get into a hostile to dodge Havoc, I see Havoc as being in the right to double hostile them / hit into their war.
- If 1 was to take place I see no problems.
- If 2 was to happen but Havoc was to hit into a clear hostile/war then I'd like to think Alliance action with AMA/BBs help would be taken (I have no control over it) against Havoc as our alliance is meant to be in place for fair play in the top. This is what Drixx has always wanted and us joining forces with one of our main competitors for fair play would show our great stance upon this.
- If 3 was to happen I'd question our alliance position if we allowed it... and my own.
In conclusion:
Bad CF are the leader's faults and no one elses. As long as these are respected and events come about respecting them, I see no problems. If a kd is bending these CF to gain an advantage or hitting clearly into Hostile/Wars then actions need to be taken as it means the top has not progressed at all and learnt nothing over the last few ages.
I don't have any problems with either Havoc/AMA's style of play this age. Yes AMA has done really well in whoring by warring but like wise Havoc has done good to get where they are whoring by being boring. Both are legit ways to get where they are. At the end of the day... we all start at 400 acres :O
The issue is simple:
There are three kingdoms (the top 3) who think they have a good shot at crowning, and they all want to crown. For two of them (AMA/pyro), their best chance to crown is to war eachother. For the third, it's to prevent that war from happening (by warring one themselves).
The issue that CR has with what AMA offered is that it would prevent CR from vulturing them (additional time, additional notice), while allowing them to vulture CR if they decided to fight anyone else, so it essentially lets them fight pyro for free while freezing CR from engaging anyone. They say that's CR's fault for making bad deals, but that denies that it was a bad decision for them to have pyro and CR end at the same time.
That said, it is not CR's (and nor should it be anyone else's) right to tell someone else who they are allowed to war. This is the fundamental issue in the top right now, people 'dibs' eachother and feel entitled to fights or wars because they noticed another kingdom, or started a forum thread, regardless of whether that kingdom is ultimately in war, or fighting someone else when they engage or not. When mansoor first did that a few ages ago, I went and talked to elit and flogger about it and what i got back was 'well, mansoor is crazy, we don't want to stop it', and it's been moving downhill since. So the precedent is there: if you notice someone and they don't make a deal, you get to wave them in their war. Mansoor did it to strippers. AMA did it to strippers, Fratzia did it to ED. There have never been consequences for doing it. That doesn't make it right.
I'm off to 'nam. You have abandoned your province. Now your people await the arrival of a new leader who can bring them to glory.
gl.
Agree with Zauper on most but some of the precedents he stated. We didnt whore when Mansoor vs strippers or AMA vs strippers happened, so we didnt care and didn't know what happened there. But using Fratzia vs ED as an example was not the most accurate one to do so with because ED "dodged" by entering war earlier than notice expiry with Fratzia, but did not let Fratzia know, hence they trained up and spent ****loads unnecessarily.
This is slightly different.
But yes, we did have all this stupid forum drama regarding Fratzia hitting into ED war. Does notice = auto claim to hostile/war, or does notice means, we're no longer CF'ed, we can hit you anytime we wish, you gotta watch out for us catching you unguarded. My personal opinions lies with the latter. And that being the latter, it still doesnt make it right to double hostile anyone even if you aren't CF'ed to each other.
Regardless, I hope we can resolve this peacefully.
I already stated my RSVP. I'm bringing my +24, and I bring my own booze!
Is it official "we will double hostile u no matter what" thread by Havoc players?
People keep talking about how Havoc isn't entitled to call dibs on AMA.
How is AMA entitled to decide they're going to ignore their expired CF, expect a free extension without giving anything, and war Pyro.
Also, how is this literally any different at all than AMA noticing ED and ED going to war with PewPew and AMA responding by waving into war?
AMA has absolutely zero ground to stand on here, because they literally did this EXACT SAME THING last age.
Are you dumb? Seriously... are you dumb? (mod note, banned for this)Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Nope. We'll have to take a look at what the scenario looks like. The only thing that I have mentioned in this thread is that the notice is for sure dropping Jan 1, irregardless of whether or not you move your CF/Notice date with Pyro. I'm not interested in playing bush league games here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drug
Last age AMA had no notice with ED, which allowed them to vulture us after our 9 days war with PewPew.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
After AMA won ED, they started to run from us while warring PewPew, we did not hit neither PewPew, nor ED into war at all.
I dunno who r u and where do u play, but u keep spreading complete lie abt AMA. At least tell community where do u play, so I will understand what's wrong with ya. Till then I will consider u r clueless random hater.
About the situation last age where Fratzia hit into our war vs pyro:
[18:06] <Elit> i think you realy deserve this hits, and im happy other kd made it
[18:06] <Elit> so you can learn from this
[18:06] <Elit> and this time ppl wont say im greedy for land
[18:07] <Elit> if you cant warthem offer free acres for CF
[18:07] <Elit> dont run in another war
So according to Elits own logic, CR can hit AMA into war and actually do them a favour - giving them a learning experience.
One thing I know is that life is short
So listen up homeboy, give this a thought
The next time someone's teaching why don't you get taught?
It's like that and that's the way it is.
EXACT SAME THING last age? <=== Are you comparing when ED noticed AMA after war and tried to vulture <== apparently some say "vulturing" doesn't exist with today's EOWCF, then AMA beat them in war and then they ran from AMA who after EOWCF from round 2?Quote:
Meep
Also, how is this literally any different at all than AMA noticing ED and ED going to war with PewPew and AMA responding by waving into war?
AMA has absolutely zero ground to stand on here, because they literally did this EXACT SAME THING last age.
Godly was preaching about fair play last few ages? How clean he would be if it were his decisions? Not sure who is in charge, and nothing dirty or unethical has been done in action yet but the seed has been planted for a double hostile obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drug View Post
Is it official "we will double hostile u no matter what" thread by Havoc players?
Then I read Godly saying about how AMA was trying to get advantages over Pyro to go into war with, which OBVIOUSLY Godly and CR NEVER do like farming Simians for 15k acres through a farming deal yet again dictating who wars on the server (if Simians wars Pyro they owed CR 15k acres or war) ....AND I hear they actually took closer to 20k acres from Simians, this portion I am not certain but I don't see why my source would lie.
Regardless, this is the second time that I know of this age of how CR dictates who wars who on the server which I have heard many Pew and CR/Havoc players/ and a few other haters complain about.
I just have one last question, by the sounds of it Zauper leaving and Godly loosing his high standard of morales :p ===> Is CR disbanding after age? This is what it looks like to me anyways, a last grab to do whatever they can to go out with a crown regardless if it's as tarnished as SWEA's.
so SaD
Are you banned?Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
Let me know if phrasing that as a question meant i didn't really ban you.
I dunno what's AMA deal with Havoc, but r u sure u can notice when AMA in hostile/war?Quote:
Originally Posted by Godly
You're not hostile with anyone. You have no more chance of being hostile when your notice is up with CR than CR has to hostile you when their notice is up. You do have the chance to negotiate to extend your CF. Your post here is the real propaganda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drug
Zauper leaving shows a respect to a code of Ethics many in this game don't grasp. CR is not wrong in this situation. That is not why Zauper left. It would appear to me that Zauper left because he believes in a standard that no one else in CR seems to agree with and definitely no one in AMA/BB agree with until it favors them, because they most certainly had no problem telling people who they can and cannot war, and when.Quote:
Originally Posted by Koodo
Godly has no standards as of ~4 ages ago. You're behind on times.
Their Attitude To Us Hostile (28 points) Our Attitude To Them Hostile (104 points)
Your post above is the real propaganda, Ezzerland.
LOL @ this whoever this noob is...Quote:
Originally Posted by protector
Ah, but of course. Anyone can hit any small tiny ghetto and take it to hostile! Gee, why didn't anyone else ever think of that protecting them before?Quote:
Originally Posted by Drug
To be fair, tiny ghetto ****ed ama pretty badly ;)
U just keep embarassing urself with ur propaganda lmao. Ok, I will take it to pm ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
"Hi I am Ezzerland I make stupid posts and when proven wrong I just make sarcastic remarks instead."Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezzerland
The PM was a good discussion, imo, and a good decision. I respect you for taking this approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Drug
Quit it with the snide personal remarks or bans will ensure and threads will be locked.
You seem a little grouchy today. Is the cause the lack of success for the proud Irish in the olympics mayhaps? Next chance for you is probably the winter olympics in Graz, Austria in 2017. Have patience.
Zauper left to nam and abandoned because he was out of sit time. He will be back after he returns. Zauper going on vacation has historically meant it is time for us to war AMA.
Someone from ama has only come to me once and at that time they said that not only should we not be allowed to hit them after waiting till notice is up but that they deserved a longer extension with an increase to the notice period. I have heard nothing from their leadership since this time. It's unclear why, based on this situation, we wouldn't notice our #1 competitor when cf runs out or why we wouldn't engage them at the end of that notice period.
Also, it's highly unreasonable to claim that a kd is unethical for not letting someone else have a particular war when you are stating such in an attempt to make that kd not have a particular war.
I am still patiently waiting for Elit to respond to my post. #74 in this topic
"Zauper leaving shows a respect to a code of Ethics many in this game don't grasp. CR is not wrong in this situation. That is not why Zauper left. It would appear to me that Zauper left because he believes in a standard that no one else in CR seems to agree with and definitely no one in AMA/BB agree with until it favors them, because they most certainly had no problem telling people who they can and cannot war, and when."
Ezzerland, this is thread is about AMA and CR. Please leave BB out of it. Beastblood is acting honorable and doesn't do any **** play. U don't believe me? Ask Topsy,Maximouse or others i did diplo with this age. :)
So stop living in the past and stop talking about stuff u are clueless about:)
darkie, in ezzer's defense, he's reacting to things that prot and flogger are saying.
I know, but they are giving personal opinion, not bb's opinion. So keep BB out of it:)
Prot is insinuating that if he were active he would take over BB's kd actions and dealbreak us in order to not allow us to give notice to a kd that cf'd us with a notice period. That sounds like it's pertinent to BB action.
Aside from all of the arguing over whether CR should be able to follow through on AMA.
Even if CR allows AMA and Pyro to war, and AMA wins.
I'm not seeing how:
16k/14k/13.8k All Human war hero
is going to gain acres over
16.2k/15.4k /15k/13.6k/13.6k 4 Human Sages 1 Halfling Rogue
And leave AMA in any position to fight CR.
Maybe time for ama to go call pyro lame and war cr instead then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
even though you made a snide remark after banning godly?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bishop
@ Parth-
Amnesia? Plague? War Spoils with BB + accelerated build and soldier aid accelerated training? Dragon plus dragon immunity? - I'm just throwing out attributes, though they're jumbled in my limited understanding.
I'm going to 'Nam this year too.
I would think the biggest factors that Amnesia would effect are: WPA via channeling, and pop via housing. Might be better of if you want to control those 2 things by massing and fireballing.Quote:
Originally Posted by StratOcastle
Plague - If the undeads conquest the big, might be some plague to deal with in the cow war. But I don't think it's a major factor.
War spoils I don't think will be used much. Any time you see a province with 0 incoming, you smack the **** out of it knowing they have almost a full 24 hours of 0 incoming. Unless they War Spoils their next hit, but that method will only lead to a deep chain with 0 incoming sometime in the war, which is a no no.
Not sure of the makeup of the rest of the kingdom. Are most of them war heros? If it's just the biggies, I can see them getting protection from Sapphire dragons to help against nm/ns runs, which is pretty huge. But Im sure there are still plenty of targets for pyro to do a nm/ns run on that is not protected by war hero. And you need your biggies dealing with the funding/killing of a dragon regardless of their personality.
Fast training time means for some fast pumping via the enemy. Which can be countered somewhat by pyro doing regular intel updates. If they don't update for 7 hours and something gets out of hand due to a cow pumping, well then that's their fault and should be punished/lose. But regular intel checkups can easily counter any "fast" plans that AMA might try to pull.
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7153369856/hAC6D254F/
Thank god I don't play anymore with this type of scrub play.
I should not have said "no one" in AMA/BB, and for that I apologize.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkie89
According to discussion Zauper had with Elit he left because of:Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
So which is it? Did he lie to Elit to try to avoid blow-back on his return? Or was he just simply out of sitting, seems a bit coincidental he abandons at the particular time when he told Elit he would leave. Also many of your members claimed in #tactics he was retiring, seems can never get them stories straight. LMAOQuote:
He don't agree with it and told his kd he will leave if they insist this and his "friends" told him he can leave but they will double hostile us.
[22:07] <zapalt> i tell them i will quit if that's what they want to do
[22:07] <zapalt> and they still think it's ok
[22:07] <Elit> lol
[22:07] <Elit> they choice notice us over you?
[22:07] <Elit> i cant believe it
[22:07] <Elit> you are supposed to be in kd with frends
[22:07] <zapalt> i'm working on it :P
[22:08] <zapalt> their ethics are just completely different
[05:36] <zapalt> k, sorry bud. I'm abandoning when I get home from work tomorrow, they won't extend unless you're willing to give them something.
[05:42] <Elit> stupid ppl
p.s Zauper was smart enough to value my stay away from CR last 3 ages and leave you and BB have fair 1vs1 run. Its why we both had keep fair deals and play . With n00bs take over decision and build grudge with me and bb same time its will result you disband.
Zauper told us he would retire after this age and that he's abandoning BECAUSE of this situation. He was sat earlier this age, but not for three weeks, so his sit time was not up. His retirement just came sooner than expected because he doesn't appreciate the shady tactics employed by Havoc throughout the age, not just in this conflict.Quote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
Also, there have been talks with your leadership, just not with you. And these talks all ended in the same result: an unreasonable demand by Havoc, thinking that they have the right to tell us who to war and when. We still have a say in what we do, to who and when to do it, and until that time Havoc's going to have to fight if they want to take these acres from us. Preferably a fair fight, but that seems to be too much to ask.
Ezzerland (and others that criticized earlier this thread), I can name you at least two examples where AMA was in a similar, powerful situation against other kingdoms and did not dictate who they would war or when. For starters, two ages ago I believe it was, our CF with Rage ran out. At the time Drixx approached us with the question if we would extend so that they could war someone else. We didn't have to, we were in a powerful position and we could've easily forced a deal on them like Havoc did to Simians this age, a tax on their acres or a guaranteed war with us. Instead we extended our CF with them and left them alone for the rest of the age, to keep things civil and to not unnecessarily create any grudges when obviously Rage had no intention of warring us.
Secondly, when we warred HoH last age we could have noticed, and we told HoH that we would notice them. But because they had recently warred, and because we had so many advantages over them, when tak3shi came to us to ask for a few days extra preparation before our war, we gave them the extra days (which they then used to draw it out longer with a fortified period, into which we did not hit).
Similarly, had we been in the position Havoc was in now, and we were asked to keep the notice period intact while they go war another kingdom (not an increase in notice, like topsy makes everyone believe up there), after which we would still easily be in a position to farm them out, we would have given them that courtesy. A courtesy that Zauper was willing to extend to us, but that the rest of his shady council can't seem to bring up.
Being one of the dominating kingdoms in the game comes with a responsibility. A responsibility to keep things fair and even in the top, and sometimes this requires you to turn a kingdoms 0% chances into 10% by letting them war another kingdom and reaping the benefits afterwards. Havoc have clearly shown that they value quick success over morality. We'll see where it brings them.
If you have a problem with a mod you can PM a different mod. No discussion in threads will be entered into.Quote:
Originally Posted by whur