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Except neither of these solve the real problem; a lack of competent and willing leaders. Kingdoms don't die because they can't field 25 people, they die because the leadership isn't willing to make the effort anymore. Bringing in new people isn't going to create quality leaders for good while, and this game wont last that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOne
I think lowering roster sizes would help. One of the main reasons people CBA to lead is that it takes time too recruit players. Eoa comes and it is not rare to need to replace 5 players. Not sure who it was that loled I made a thread to recruit but during essay deadlines I don't want to be manually recruiting 100s of people on IRC. Bumping the thread is sufficient enough. 20 player maximum sized rosters would break up the current big kids and there would be more 20 player kingdoms to compete. They need to somehow stop banking. All attempts so far have been fail.
Banking never was problem for game. Its affect few kds. In past when we had more good kds we had more Kds with banks. Age 50 is very good example. We had like 20 kds with Cows.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
But when there is only 5 kingdoms going for the Land/NW crown it isolates all other 25 man kingdoms going for it such as ZZ, Simians, EJ, WSK, Koalas, SPGC and a few other top kingdoms. If there was a way any of them could break into the top it might make the game more interesting. Currently at this stage in the game any of them growing would be a farm out too BB, Pew, AMA if they grew in range due to science/banks etc.
well a reduction of provinces to 20 would actually contribut to controlling cows. They have 20-25% fewer provinces to draw aid from in that event.
Elit it is just silly to say that running cows does not harm the game. The skill (and I use that term loosely to embrace discipline and coordination as well) difference required to manage and create one effectively locks out most kingdoms. In most kingdoms that do cow, I can tell you the amount of grumbling to create cows from EXPERIENCED LONG TERM PLAYERS is astounding. How much more so newer kingdoms.....?
so when does this kick off?
Its funny how you talk this age about being more interest but you did different last age. Last age RBL had cows and you had 3 weeks free pump and jumped on AMA right after our b2b wars. AMA was smaller and no COWs. Did you care for let us prepare for "make it more interest"? This age AMA have Cows and you don't have. But We give you time for prepare war us. How you see game mechanic alone have less impact from "human factor".Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Its don't harm game. Have impact for 4-5 kds and its only if they war. Arranged farm out wars past few ages is what kill game and make people leave it. Have impact for all charts and affect much more kds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
You were bad ages 1-present, not sure why you are asking, doesn't matter what age we talk about since you were bad in all.Quote:
Originally Posted by munk
Cows are good. If there was no cows, elit had to be core province and attack. And he sucks at whoring!
As said, it is apart of the game and it kills the competition. We are not all as skilled as you Elit to overcome a no cow advantage. Just like the call of duty franchise that grew, you need to make it noob friendly so anyone can play it if you want it to stay alive and grow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
I use to play a game called "Socom" on the PlayStation that required great patience and skill and provided hours of fun but as it took a massive learning curve it slowly faded out and died to call of duty as people couldn't commit the time and effort. If this game doesn't adapt to cater for the noobs, it'll die too :(
This game needs a drastic change. Kd size of 8 would make it quite interesting. That's already 15 competitive kds and more with possible returning players and blooding new leaders with a potential less responsibility load. Tweak and adjust game mechanics to adjust to changes.
socom navy seals was a good game. it was for PS2 i think. the first one did very well but then 2 did not do so well. i think thats right around the time splinter cell and **** came out wasnt it? but yeah socom took skill. i remember trying and dying so many times.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Socom was always used in Arena.
I miss TechTV :(
KD size is not the issue, lack of players wanting (and able) to lead is.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Let's go the other way.
2 kingdoms.
2500 players per kd.
who would the leaders be?? one kd all fae with palem as queen!!
one could argue that it is a lot easier to lead a kingdom of 10 players.
It would be fun if you could make formal alliances of say max 5 kingdoms. Then declare an alliance war on another alliance. :p Where all 5 of you have war status with each other :p
that would be fun tiems!Quote:
Originally Posted by goodz
Please everyone you are getting off topic in here. This is not a thread about prov per kd.
It should be....
is useless thread :P
Should wait till war starts. Sounds like pewpew is going to run after someone else and beastblood is going to find loophole for notice clause so they can jump them after that hostile at which point pewpew will probably do something silly like they always do!
...that's why we're discussing kingdom sizes...get with the picture guys lol
cows isnt the problem. it's part of game mechanics. and it factors in the whole macro strategy. it's the lack of competitiveness at the top.
this is due to
1) players leaving the game
2) lack of leaders
how to improve them?
1) phoneapp, marketing. have the devs ever did math to see whether it's worth it to do any of them?
2) idk. again drop kd sizes. so hopefully more people will stand up. please stand up!
cJ
in my opinion the current mechanics don't make top warring as enjoyable as in past, or cowing for that matter. The explore formula basically caps you. The complete lack of flexibility makes how you use pool pretty one dimensional. Basically everyone is going to explore as many cows as they can to x acres, say 11-12k. It used to be that perhaps you would explore 1 cow to 35k or maybe they would do 3 cows to 20k, and core would be like 4k. What was better was less obvious. It is kind of less fun now imo at least the cowing/banking perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheOne
Don't think you can wiggle out of dibsQuote:
Originally Posted by goodz
read my thread in suggestions to improve utopia!
http://forums.utopia-game.com/showth...Bs-War-Declare
Normal logic in real and fair competition is better team to win. If you are less skilled you need to chart down from more skilled. Why you want to get place you dont deserve? Do you think i got skilled for 1 age and before it rest KDs go easy on me because im not skilled?Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
If you lack skills start improve so you can become more competitive.
Having 1 huge cow vs 3-4 was much better (in past) because 1 cow = 4 gens vs 3-4 cows =12-16 gens. Making cap on explore and cow size and up pool same time is not good solution. Still its "hurt" whore kds making them grow with his pool and separate from ww/honor kds. Maybe its not perfect but if we don't have it game going to be more destructive to less good kds.Quote:
Originally Posted by goodz
Actually, dropping kingdom size to 10-15 players will certainly boost the game in a way.
Having more experience players split up and help semi-develop kingdom enjoy the game, might attract more people in playing.
Here is enough experience players playing in ghettoes atm but they dont want to bother lead and teach. Its har job and take alot time. Still reduce players per kingdom can help. Its more easy to fill KD from 15-20 vs 25 and its more easy for organize them. This will increase total number KDs with same player base and build more targets for war for all.Quote:
Originally Posted by scitzo
I know main problem is money. If here is enough money devs can run second server= genesis and test more before put changes in main server. Genesis with random build KDs and change roster every age can build this extra fun where experience players teach newbies and after it recruit them in his main KDs in WoL. Maybe devs can make calculations how much money they need for it and make post about it. Maybe people from community can make donations for help? Maybe here is other ways for find money?
Right now devs cant spend much time and money for game and its why is not real expect major changes.
Remove cow elements from the game and you have a point. Decreasing and going for honor/whoring is totally different and you're not getting experience going for cows etc. Look at pyro for example. Good at waring, bad at prepping. They will only learn by doing though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
How you pointed up you are not skilled. So your opinion is based on our limited understand game and its complete wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
About Pyro. They have bad setup+ being targeted all age. Its why they have hard time. Every KD with bad setup have it.
They have came to understand this now from experience. That is an experience they would not have received as a warring kingdom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elit
Waring kingdoms pick bad setups too. Its can happen to any one, include good kds.Quote:
Originally Posted by American Badass
Still its part from game fun. Its why people argue and discuss every age about his setups. Maybe if your KD reset again and go different setup you can learn more about game too ;)
Elit,
You are ignoring the fundamental problem in your belief that the blatantly obvious is the end of the discussion. THINK ABOUT IT. The problem is NEW PLAYERS CAN'T QUICKLY (within one or two ages) GET TO THE STAGE WHERE THEY CAN COMPETE AT THE TOP. Running and resourcing COWS is a LARGE PART of that problem. Without that ability, you can't do it. The NW penalties hitting/opping up into those cows are TOO STRONG. IF smaller TM's could steal massive amounts of gold from cows, if smaller TM's could effectively nightstrike and weaken military on those cows, then kingdoms would TRY to compete with them. The fact that you can't do anything effectively to them other than fireball their peasants is the biggest problem with those provinces. The more important problem is that they are difficult for less experienced kingdoms to construct and the more roadblocks that are thrown up to making them, the harder it becomes to make them, the less that newer kingdoms are able to even try to compete.
Reducing kingdom sizes, will reduce the aid available, so that cowing is not longer practicable. Reducing NW protections will make it so that creating cows is less advantageous.
Back in ages 29-34 I used to love warring against cow kingdoms because I was able to steal MILLIONS of GC in just a few ops from the cows and fund everything. (I recall wars where I solo funded 4 or five dragons from the enemy cow and paid all my attackers wages.) So I was a little 6K acre thief opping a 25K acre cow and I LOVED IT. Eventually the cow would try to raze me to the ground to stop my threat and then it was me stealing the cows resources and trying to explore/build against his razes as we tried to see who would destroy the other one first. THAT WAS FUN.
Now, you can sick 6 fully pumped end of age faery princes with 175% science in crime and channeling and well over 25 mod wpa /tpa on a 15K acre cow and you only get 25% success rate on ops when it has 2.5 raw and 4 mod wpa/tpa. Thats freaking ridiculous.
In short, the top has whined for ages trying to stop provinces/kingdoms from being able to be effective at fighting cows. They have won at every turn because the developers listen to them more. Then they whine that no one will come and try to compete at the top and then people wonder why new players are not attracted to a game where they have NO CHANCE OF EVER being at the top, let alone within a few ages, in an age when people can pick up simple games and just have fun quickly and efficiently from simple apps.
cows are not the problem? Please they are not the only problem but they are a BIG PART of the problem..... You who argue otherwise have spent so long in the top that you have NO IDEA and have completely forgotten what it was like to try to learn this game.
In most games out there in gaming land, you can choose to put all your resources into one basket verses spreading them out. In some cases the all in one basket wins, in others the many small are able to tear down the one big. In utopia, the one big ALWAYS wins because the NW mechanics make sure that smaller provinces can't do anything against cows,
It's a difficult and complex game that is mature/declining and most people around have been here for a while. It's never been too unusual to take 15-20 ages to become competitive at the top, because the game basically reached maturity around 35 ages in.
People don't become chess grandmasters in 6 months, so I wouldn't expect them to become utopia pros in 6 months either. There's just no buffer between skill levels, so finding an equal match has become increasingly harder when the "top" comprises 2 or 3 kingdoms, next tier is like 3-4, and so on... you inevitably become mixed
Sheister, game is work perfect fine. If you want 300 acres prov to make insane ops on 30k prov go play BF. Its complete broken game.
Making cows is part from KD ability, its wont change don't matter how you change it. Good kingdoms will manage to put his KD in better position from less good KDs.
Im play game for long but when start build this KD we spend 2 full ages playing in ghetto waring before start try grow. Its take time for build good KD ever if you have good leaders. Past few ages more and more new ppl take over lead KDs. Sure they cant learn for one age and sure with run in arranged wars, farming,game abuse and other "creative" ideas like it they wont improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meeni
Elit,
I was not comparing a 300 acre province to a 30k one. I compared a 6K to a 15K one. So roughly 50% of size and yet the 6K provinces can't do diddly to it.
Stop pretending we are talking about orders of magnitude when we are not. Stop arguing to protect your precious advantages. Level the playing field and the game will grow again. Admittedly, the QQing crowd in the larger kingdoms may quit becuase the game becomes "nubified" if other kingdoms can compete with you. Oh well......
Im not argue to protect my advantage. Im just say all your complain is silly. change game mechanic wont make less good kds more competive compare better kds. Best example is new oop. Every one start with same resources and 24h. Dont matter how good you are, you cant make your prov much better from n00bs. Still better Kds dominate from day 1 oop how was with 3 days protection. Only difference is we losing quality from less strategy options in protection.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Except that newer KD's could choose to hit into you and try to do things. Before they really could not. similarly, if cows were not so protected, provinces COULD choose to do something to cows. They still would largely not choose to even try, but it is stupid how much they are protected from ops at present.
But again Elit, this is why my default position is, no one should even try to play for the top anymore. Let BB, AMA, CR, and pew pew die from boredom and go away. Then all the kingdoms that remain and want to war and have casual silly fun can meaningfully compete (at least for a time until they all start creating the silly artifices of CFs and notices and dibs and other bull-crap that the current top has put in place to structure how they want to play.)
Don't want to be mean...but if AMA/BB/CR spend 1 age waring with "top" war KDs (no run allowed) next age all will beg them: pls go play for land we don't need it again. You cant imagine how much more destructive going to be for newbies KDs to war us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
WTF about cows sudden? Why you didn't complain last age when AMA had no cow and we get forced to b2b war with Cow kingdoms. Now accident cows are problem... How its problem when its affect few kds and they are in range for war?
If you want n00bs to improve find way to motivate old players to teach them. Im doing my fair share with help every age people from smaller KDs with give them advice. Maybe you can join one from this kind KDs and start doing same?