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Also I hate emeriti. It's a known fact. And I was right there defending them because they even contacted me and asked if we would mind helping them to raze them out. I came in a different thread standing up for emeriti because I thought for once they were being honorable. But I guess it was wishful thinking.
Am I late to the party? We get to raze Emeriti, yet?
Am I late also?Quote:
Originally Posted by bombdigie
Popcorn is here!
Why didn't you raze BB (or any of the other kds) last age when they kept their acres?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrystal Palace
Because it's a popularity contest. Rhetorical yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
I like all these people to, I just don't let it sway my moods. I don't take action so I had to say moods.
Context... there's different factors like BB agreeing not to grow etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Why didn't you leave when you said you would? Hypocrite much?
Emeriti agreed they wouldn't grow lol
Is that what exploring a bank means?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
That is not a thing to which they agreed. they feel / felt like we should trust them and they could grow to be two acres behind us. We clearly can't trust them, if they can't keep their word here and can't talk without accusing us of deal breaking over their failure to close a deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
If it was, they wouldn't have grown. The difference to me is that BB etc offered different solutions (won't crown) whereas emeriti offered " we will raze the land", and then haven't.
It's called still playing the game. You are allowed to do stuff even if you've (allegedly) agreed to not crown.Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija
This post is so utterly confusing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
You had their word, but no agreed deal and the reason you had no agreed deal was because you felt you couldn't trust them and now you're mad that they broke their word about a deal whose validity depends entirely on someone whose word you've said you can't trust.......what? lol
I think you're confused. Here, let me lay it out for you:Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
1) We have a yrwhatever + 48h notice deal with Emeriti.
2) Emeriti is fighting BB, gives up.
3) Emeriti makes a deal with flogger to have an EOA with everyone and give up on the age.
4) Flogger shows the deal to topsy, who says "That seems ok in principle, it depends on the actual terms and Zauper and I will need to review them".
5) Days pass, no terms are presented. We go to Emeriti and say, "What do you understand this deal to be? We need actual terms as we expressed previously in order to actaully agree to it" (and we are informed that 'flogger said topsy agreed to it' -- and of course, flogger says there are no terms)
6) Emeriti says, "Oh, the terms are just that we won't get too close and won't crown"
7) We say "What does that mean?"
8) Emeriti says, "Oh, it just means we won't crown."
9) We express not being happy with that, they go AFK for a while.
10) We talk to them on IRC a week or two later, and hash out what seems to be a deal at 85%, and CK sends the terms ingame
11) Topsy replies, clarifying again that too close is 85%
12) CK replies saying that they don't agree to 85% and informs me on IRC that we should just trust them to not come too close.
13) I tell CK we'll try to trust them. We do, they show they aren't trustworthy.
So, the question becomes:
1) What does "too close" mean? It seems like it means whatever we want it to mean, which in turn means that there is no real deal.
2) Did CK declining the term mean that the deal was ever agreed to? It seems like if not, the pre-existing 48h notice deal would be in effect which could be given at any time.
3) We could always opt to trust them to not get too close, but why would we do that when they illustrated in this case that they are willing to try to get out of things they say, and talk about the loopholes they could exploit?
4) We could always ignore it because we're big enough that it's unlikely to be an issue, but it seems silly to not resolve these things before they become issues.
p.s.
This seems like a really bad reason to not keep your word:
Quote:
<Chris_Keeling> the acres don't matter
<Chris_Keeling> we don't want/need'm
<Chris_Keeling> too lazy to raze'm off
This brings up somewhat the same question as the Divinity/Spartans issues, what obligation if any does the offended KD have to notify the offending KD that everything is not good to go?
Emeriti could make a somewhat believable argument that it was their impression that the deal was good to go, just like Divinity could make the argument that they thought their deal with spartans was good to go.
Where this situation differs I guess is that Emeriti and CR had an old CF/deal in place, so it's not like the in-game NAP being in place or not would have conclusively indicated whether or not there was an acceptance of the new deal.
I suppose that from the advantaged position, CR has not much motivation or incentive to remind Emeriti that a deal hasn't been concluded because at all points future CR was very likely to hold massive advantages over Emeriti. But, from a 'what's the right course of action' perspective, if I had negotiations wrap up on uncertain terms I would probably prod the other KD with a reminder within a couple of days.
You should refer to us as YOLO btw! We've abandoned Nicolas Cage and went LOTR style!
http://i.imgur.com/HUYYv.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by protector
Well, they can't really complain -- per what CK offered ingame, we've informed them that we consider them to be too close to us in size as of ~24 hours ago now? So even if they felt that deal was both agreed to and binding, they'd have no recourse because they wrote it poorly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
A good point, pretty solid negotiating tactic though you gotta admit, 'lets make a CF where you can arbitrarily at any time decide we're too close in size to you and notice us!'Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Send notice already :p
To me this seems like you've agreed to their deal. They offered terms, you accepted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
What are the current sizes? Have they even reached the 85% you had stated you'd like them not to cross? In what way have they betrayed your trust?
savage. you used to be nice Topsy, wut da hellQuote:
Originally Posted by topsy's revenge
Their terms aren't defined. It's real dumb to not define terms, because then someone can just interpret them however they want. Which was our point in the first place. They have not crossed 85% of our land, which means if only they had agreed to our terms, this wouldn't be a problem. You're arguing that we agreed we'd tell them if they're too close. We've done that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
They betrayed my trust by calling me a liar when I told said they weren't going to drop acres post-Spartans, and informing me that if it ends, they will raze the acres... and then not doing so, calling me a liar again and accusing me of dealbreaking when confronted about it.
Maybe palem joined abs kd
Oh noez, he might quit again after this drama ends poorly for Emeriti :PQuote:
Originally Posted by SnirpsneR
EDIT: Actually he'd want to bully Zauper for Zauper saying "Nicki Minaj is hotter piece than Taylor Swift" but he'd fail and then quit and QQ...
I dont think starting a thread in the forum titled dealbreak when there has been no such thing was the correct way to close out diplo...
All I'm going to say, is I called this during the other long bottom is hot post. I called this exact thing happening and I was told specifically that policing should never be for the land. Doesn't matter if there was a deal. From what I know the "correct" and honorable way to deal with this would be to raze away the land taken from policing. Otherwise it was just a farm of the small kd you took 12k acers from. Just how I see it. Hope it gets resolved.
Please Gordon, Topsy is still too nice if anything (and handsome). Do it Topsy, drop the people's elbow on Mithras.Quote:
Originally Posted by Realest
I am so lost here.... is anyone publishing an edition of DramaNotes for this thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
Well that depends. If proceeding under the UCC, the gap fillers allow the interpretation of such terms to be consistent with trade usage and the normal course of dealing. But it can become a question as to what trade usage and normal course of dealing are.... However, since we clearly are already litigating the issue in the uto forums, I don't know that it matters anymore.
We were in no position last age to raze BB. This is our first age actually trying. Also BB didn't come to me and say they would raze the acres to make themselves look like the peoples champ.
1. If I agreed to a deal with fuzzy, undefined terms and complained about it here, I'd be getting 30 pages of "You're a moron" "That's what you get" "Learn how to diplo" "You should quit again", ect. A deal having less-than-concrete terms doesn't mean you're allowed to break the deal. The reason I asked about the original 85% is simply that, in Emeriti's shoes, if we were approaching say 75% of your size, I wouldn't feel like we're starting to get into an uncomfortable range for you because of the aforementioned 85% before, so I would feel comfortable exploring more, without thinking that CR is going to think we're dirty, cheating, backstabbing scum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
2. You've said in this very thread that you have every intention of noticing Emeriti and farming them, breaking a CF that they believe you have. Justified or not, you've said you have every intention of doing what they say you're going to do, so you can't really fault them on that front.
3. As I understand the deal, there is nothing defining how Emeriti has to lose their acres after you've notified them, but one of the things that most assuredly can't happen is for you to break the CF and drop them. You have an EoACF and there's been nothing in the terms that has been broken. The deal states that you can notify them when they've grown too large and they'll drop, not that if they grow too large, you're free to notify them, at which point the deal is void and you're free to break CF and farm them.
For the record emeriti took 15k acres instead of 12k.
Here's the thing, Palem. If you agreed to an undefined deal and then the other kd exploited it for being undefined -- like say, they decided you were too close and had to lose acres. People would call you an idiot for making an undefined deal instead of defining it. In this case, who's the idiot? Emeriti. Insisting on undefined terms and then complaining when people exploit them being undefined is dumb. If I want to, I can inform them that their kingdom having 1 acre puts them too close to us. And what options do they have then? All they can do is try to convince us that that's unreasonable. Their fault for making bad terms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
They have been informed that they are too close for us to be happy. They are insisting that we should be happy, and refusing to drop the land. Refusing to drop the land puts them in violation of those terms, which means they get hit for breaking the deal, because that's not an option allowed to them.
Simple.
Fair enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by Zauper
This is all null. The U has served emeriti notice not CR.
No acres for the big bad wolf. I rather see emeriti farm the bigger U.
Less drama, more eoa war!! No one is crowning anyways
Topsy's Tweens are certainly crowning don't try and take that away from them!Quote:
Originally Posted by zee
If emeriti farms the U then they just have to raze down to 40% of CR's size after that, nbd.
Chrystal Palace notice Emeriti from an eoa cf. No reason. No flair. No excuses. CP has alot to learn from Zauper.
Is 72h notice standard for breaking an eoa cf? Did you roll a dice to decide how long notice was required?
This thread has been going on for a bit, Emereti had some time prior to making the thread to raze the the acres they gained deuchefully.
Emereti has been given ample time to do the right thing so now CP is going to make Emereti loose acres I suppose? 72 hour notice is pretty nice of them to inform you of their intentions. I think the boat has left the dock for the option of razing acres but will that be Emereti's next move? Make CP train up, intra raze then more crying by Emereti? Only time will tell......
I still want to see where I ever decided on an eoa cf with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mithras
I'm pretty sure erv actually did through correspondence with flogger and can happily show it to you if you like. Just ask him.