Congratulations to the age 72 winners!

<Deleted - Do not defame me or anyone in the game Administration>

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

I think 2:2 should be given the heads up that they'll be removed from the charts immediately upon the first actioning.

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Most likely they just decided on it when they saw their old kd in 2nd place.

96 now :)

Delete before EOA not at EOA. Even though this ranked us at 2-3 for Land NW, I still don't think it is correct to bring out "new" game rules just before EOA that justify said deletions. That's dystopian not utopian.

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Don't even know who to congratulate other than the admins for doing their jobs.

It's unfortunate that the last two "crowns" were decided by **** play and lameness

I do think it's better to action the offending party right away as opposed to doing it later on as that would greatly change game dynamics

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Totally agree on your point

Conspiracy theories, so funny :p

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Originally Posted by JeffT

It's not really appropriate to delete 25 individual players for the actions of a kingdom. Those 24 players who weren't deleted had the opportunity to defect to other kingdoms, if they wished to preserve their province rankings / did not endorse the cheating. The kingdom, however, is being actioned for cheating which means all of those rankings at removed at EOA.

Yes, this does mean that getting actioned for cheating in yr0, even if all 25 provinces were deleted, would still result in rankings removal at EOA.

The action taken at the time of cheating (deletion of provinces/suspension/WW removal) was appropriate to remove the in-game benefits they had received from cheating. The removal of rankings is appropriate, as we do not tolerate cheating and there should reasonably be lasting consequences to it. It doesn't matter whether those kingdoms would have finished #1 #7 or #140.

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What you did is right and perhaps the first step to stop cheating in long term but the way it was done was bad. If you give punishments in steps then it is not actually fair. Not to the kd but to others around them. Had you deleted them right away or maybe freezed them or anything as such then CR/Mango wouldnt have done farming or anything as such and things could/perhaps/would/maybe sorted out diplomatically.

Like Shiester said nobody is the winner this age.

But I am actually happy that a step has been taken to stop cheating and you guys stick to it in future ages to come as well.

Good job Zauper & Hawk & Munk (You still SUCK U NUB)!

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Originally Posted by cRs

I agree 100% with actioning kds for cheating what I dont get it is why allowing them to use the resources made by cheating till eoa. Not speaking only about sparta this age.. in general. We had one more example few ages ago with fluffy(i think) who won 3-4 fake wars and the only action was deleting theyr war history... leaving them untouched on all theyr resources gained trough those wars (land/honor/sci...) mid age. Thats why I dont understand ur way of dealing with this and find it pretty unfair to the others.. u get caught cheating, u get deleted.. u cheat as a player in ur kd, u get deleted/reseted allone, u cheat as a kd, u get reseted/deleted as a kd.

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The other example you're using is before our time, so I can't really comment on it. This is the first time we've actioned a FW since we took over.

Here's the thing -- in a closed system, deleting provinces remove resources that other kingdoms could acquire, and shapes the chart. You're in a system where Sparta was, let's say, #4 land after the FW (~equivalent of #5 currently). The action we did take (deleting provinces, removing WW bonus, suspending them) removed any immediate gains they received -- they exited the FW smaller than they entered it. In an ideal world (and we plan to in the future; we couldn't here due to time constraints) we would also remove gains from any province that gained acres in the war itself. At that point, where they haven't profited from it, easier to let the age play out and remove them from rankings at the end rather than directly shape kingdoms capacity to interact with each other up front. Maybe it's better to delete them at the time as well, but either way you do it, it's going to effect how the rest of the age plays out.

My personal preference, would not be to delete the 3-5 players in both kingdoms who reported it as a fake war as punishing them doesn't seem appropriate -- instead they had the opportunity to leave the kingdom/defect their provinces if they wanted to keep their achievements to date -- and then punish the kingdom at the end of the age, and that's part of why we made a conscious decision to go down this path instead of deleting the 50 provinces.

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Why was this change in policy not stated earlier in the age? Or was it? Or was this purely reactionary because Sparta won? Legitimately asking these questions, cause I do not know.

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We had never formally announced any policy relating to cheating, as we had never had to deal with more than the constant creation spam of folks getting deleted for multiing.

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Like I said they have no clue what they are doing. They are just winging it as they go. rules don't matter and neither do punishments as they can just change it up at any moment. I'm more offended at the lack of professionalism when running a "business". They were sure willing to accept money from said players, but couldn't even give them enough respect to say hey, this is what's happening... so if you don't want to waste your time and money for the next month or two, this is the situation.

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Don't cheat, and you don't have to worry about wasting your time.

odd...

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Don't even know who to congratulate other than the admins for doing their jobs.

It's unfortunate that the last two "crowns" were decided by **** play and lameness

I do think it's better to action the offending party right away as opposed to doing it later on as that would greatly change game dynamics

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OMG this is like maybe the second or third time that we both agreed onto something!

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

I think 2:2 should be given the heads up that they'll be removed from the charts immediately upon the first actioning.

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I agree with this. Good action by devs but maybe a disclaimer included in future actionings

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Originally Posted by JeffT

The other example you're using is before our time, so I can't really comment on it. This is the first time we've actioned a FW since we took over.

Here's the thing -- in a closed system, deleting provinces remove resources that other kingdoms could acquire, and shapes the chart. You're in a system where Sparta was, let's say, #4 land after the FW (~equivalent of #5 currently). The action we did take (deleting provinces, removing WW bonus, suspending them) removed any immediate gains they received -- they exited the FW smaller than they entered it. In an ideal world (and we plan to in the future; we couldn't here due to time constraints) we would also remove gains from any province that gained acres in the war itself. At that point, where they haven't profited from it, easier to let the age play out and remove them from rankings at the end rather than directly shape kingdoms capacity to interact with each other up front. Maybe it's better to delete them at the time as well, but either way you do it, it's going to effect how the rest of the age plays out.

My personal preference, would not be to delete the 3-5 players in both kingdoms who reported it as a fake war as punishing them doesn't seem appropriate -- instead they had the opportunity to leave the kingdom/defect their provinces if they wanted to keep their achievements to date -- and then punish the kingdom at the end of the age.


We had never formally announced any policy relating to cheating, as we had never had to deal with more than the constant creation spam of folks getting deleted for multiing.


Don't cheat, and you don't have to worry about wasting your time.

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Being a mod, u handled the situation badly and with ur explanation it look even worse. U cant be telling players this is ur first time actioning due to violating of rule. If there is a rule, there should have a set of punishing and like CRs previously mentioned that punishing should be serve immediately rather than periodically. Worse still is after age ended.

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Originally Posted by Thelord

Being a mod, u handled the situation badly and with ur explanation it look even worse. U cant be telling players this is ur first time actioning due to violating of rule. If there is a rule, there should have a set of punishing and like CRs previously mentioned that punishing should be serve immediately rather than periodically. Worse still is after age ended.

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There is a simple rule of not cheating. Still you violated that rule. Stop crying Wolf!

@JeffT the issue with your approach is it prevented true competition for what could have been a legitimate crown. At this point in the age, the kd you actioned had an insurmountable advantage (short of GB by everyone but not enough time to make things fair after and enable competition) so everyone else gave up. Had these intentions been known, there would have been actual competition for the #2 spot knowing it would turn into the #1 spot. Hence there was no real winner. I think better communication is needed.

Additionally, you guys shouldn't really count on the server to action cheaters that's hardly ever works. Best if the admins do it and let everyone else enjoy the game than being removed from their goals to police people. It's up the admins to ensure integrity is upheld rather than self policing as such policing has always been hypocritical and for selfish gain.

When proper punishment happens too late, players are tuned out and already give up on the age. The harm has already been done in spite of the outcome and this age has been wasted for those who actually competed for land / NW rankings.

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Originally Posted by MyNameIsMatija

I think we should sue them for the money spent :)

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You'll just waste more money. Absolutely no case here.

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Originally Posted by Korp

Bashing the top and how everyone is a ****playing cheater all age. Eoa defends the cheaters lul.

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To clarify, I am not defending cheaters at all.
I am just saying that this decision is problematic.

Let's say you , or anyone really, is in the top networth spot because they have all leet armies at the end of the age...
then after age has ended the devs make the announcement that the leet nw value was dropped down and now someone else takes the 1st nw spot.
would that be cool with everyone?

as they say, timing is everything.

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Originally Posted by Goodwitch

To clarify, I am not defending cheaters at all.
I am just saying that this decision is problematic.

Let's say you , or anyone really, is in the top networth spot because they have all leet armies at the end of the age...
then after age has ended the devs make the announcement that the leet nw value was dropped down and now someone else takes the 1st nw spot.
would that be cool with everyone?

as they say, timing is everything.

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How is that even remotely like the current situation? lmao

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Originally Posted by markers

I agree with this. Good action by devs but maybe a disclaimer included in future actionings

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I think this would be considered the disclaimer

I have no doubt this was a reaction to Spartans topping the charts. It could have been handled better but it sets a good precedent for future cases of cheating.

Personally, I could not possibly be happier with how this age ended. This is my favourite thread in all of Utopia. My only regret is that Bart is currently banned.

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Originally Posted by Judge

There is a simple rule of not cheating. Still you violated that rule. Stop crying Wolf!

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Fyi i am not in spartan lol. U can choose not to believe :D and agree on mod action but this is the worse action taken by mod that i had even seen in my past 15 yrs playing uto

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Originally Posted by Cpt Carrot

Joke story = 4:6 sent notice to Ze Trolls...ended up getting land lusted thousands and thousands of acres. For a KD that has 22 players, its unbelievable they got placed 7th. Congrats Trolls, we will be watching you next age!

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Haha you did well. We had very limited targets. Luckily I got veto on rk two of your tms. Lol would have been better than armies sitting

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Originally Posted by Avenger

How is that even remotely like the current situation? lmao

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I had to re-read that one also, haha.

But seriously, is this just a reactionary decision based on who won? Can we continue to expect the same in the future?

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Originally Posted by MasterShake2129

I think this would be considered the disclaimer

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I mean when you get the ban/deletion/freeze a simple reminder your kd cheated and will be out of eoa rankings. Leave if you want to preserve your ****

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Originally Posted by Maximo

I had to re-read that one also, haha.

But seriously, is this just a reactionary decision based on who won? Can we continue to expect the same in the future?

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Lol

Congrats to the honor and ww winner. Well played. I actually would like to urge the real spartans to make a case next season. Get a neymar!

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Originally Posted by Maximo

I had to re-read that one also, haha.

But seriously, is this just a reactionary decision based on who won? Can we continue to expect the same in the future?

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Expect the same moving forward

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Originally Posted by markers

Haha this is funny, can't wait for the forum posts to come in. Darn bb waved me after telling me to back off due to div conflict :P

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So first 2.5 days before eoa we receive several thief attempts from you and our steward messaged to diplo. Message went ignored.

Then I also received a whatsapp message which I have people telling me its you but shall not post the phone number here due to privacy reasons.

[07/08, 7:49 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Hello are you leading bb this age?
[07/08, 8:04 am] 13NesTa13: Who's this
[07/08, 8:39 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Just another kd. What's up with the div thing? Is it a war or not?
[07/08, 8:44 am] 13NesTa13: What do u need from me? Looks like you're 4 6
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: I'm not 46 no
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx‬: Just curious on why you guys not warring or taking down bart
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Seems like wasted eoa

So we have diplo attempts in-game being ignored and on whatsapp being lied upon. How are we supposed to assume you act in good faith and respect hostile?

We've had to fort and turtle for last 36h of age because you refused to diplo and were lying on whatsapp, and breaking divinity's turtled dwarves meant we left 50 dpa behind, which we couldn't afford without you being honest.

End of age we were equally prone to being suicided on.

So shouldnt the number 5 kingdom actually be the winner? everyone of there is a cheating PoS

I haven't been following the age in great detail but looked CR was the strongest kd prior to being GB and would have beaten everyone 1:1, after that Divinity was the next best positioned to win. This is just based on strength, setup, positioning, not fairness.

Overall it was a dirty age so hard to imagine any crowns won in last 2 ages being fair

Just a question poping into my mind and hope someone or mod can clear my doubts.
Kd A demanding land from a weaker kd just bcos they can bully and wanted to get land crown. Is this consider cheating for kd A and the weaker kd? Both should get removed from chart? Why i ask that is because, the weaker is chart shaping and the strong is destroying the game integrity.

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Originally Posted by Avenger

How is that even remotely like the current situation? lmao

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making a rule (IF actioned at any time during the age you will be removed for the rankings of the entire age) after the age has ended.

I happen to agree with the rule. I do not agree with enforcement of any rules retroactively.
So in the sense of retroactive enforcement my example was exactly the same. You just don't think they would do that, and they probably won't. But technically they could. All a matter of trusting your game devs...or not.

maybe the best course of action for this particular age would be to not even award a land/nw crown and leave the rankings blank

how to define cheat

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Originally Posted by 13nesta13

So first 2.5 days before eoa we receive several thief attempts from you and our steward messaged to diplo. Message went ignored.

Then I also received a whatsapp message which I have people telling me its you but shall not post the phone number here due to privacy reasons.

[07/08, 7:49 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Hello are you leading bb this age?
[07/08, 8:04 am] 13NesTa13: Who's this
[07/08, 8:39 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Just another kd. What's up with the div thing? Is it a war or not?
[07/08, 8:44 am] 13NesTa13: What do u need from me? Looks like you're 4 6
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: I'm not 46 no
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx‬: Just curious on why you guys not warring or taking down bart
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Seems like wasted eoa

So we have diplo attempts in-game being ignored and on whatsapp being lied upon. How are we supposed to assume you act in good faith and respect hostile?

We've had to fort and turtle for last 36h of age because you refused to diplo and were lying on whatsapp, and breaking divinity's turtled dwarves meant we left 50 dpa behind, which we couldn't afford without you being honest.

End of age we were equally prone to being suicided on.

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Eh lets just move on..small issue.i would have done the same too if in your position.

Comparing cheating to elite values for logic. Hmmn..

Congrats to the top prov crown for pulling through to #1, despite the cheaters' attempts to remove him.

<3 the new owners. :)

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Originally Posted by ckonn

how to define cheat

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JeffTiTs!

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Originally Posted by Panthira

Comparing cheating to elite values for logic. Hmmn..

Congrats to the top prov crown for pulling through to #1, despite the cheaters' attempts to remove him.

<3 the new owners. :)

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Lol.. cheater came out from you surprises me :D

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Originally Posted by 13nesta13

So first 2.5 days before eoa we receive several thief attempts from you and our steward messaged to diplo. Message went ignored.

Then I also received a whatsapp message which I have people telling me its you but shall not post the phone number here due to privacy reasons.

[07/08, 7:49 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Hello are you leading bb this age?
[07/08, 8:04 am] 13NesTa13: Who's this
[07/08, 8:39 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Just another kd. What's up with the div thing? Is it a war or not?
[07/08, 8:44 am] 13NesTa13: What do u need from me? Looks like you're 4 6
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: I'm not 46 no
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx‬: Just curious on why you guys not warring or taking down bart
[07/08, 8:58 am] ‪+1 (614) xxx: Seems like wasted eoa

So we have diplo attempts in-game being ignored and on whatsapp being lied upon. How are we supposed to assume you act in good faith and respect hostile?

We've had to fort and turtle for last 36h of age because you refused to diplo and were lying on whatsapp, and breaking divinity's turtled dwarves meant we left 50 dpa behind, which we couldn't afford without you being honest.

End of age we were equally prone to being suicided on.

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Whoa incoming turd alert. The in-game message specifically told us to stay away due to div opping you. We complied. The Intel was see your wpa calc vs div. You could have easily contacted the monarch or stew (literally wasn't playing at the time of contact on whatsapp, they asked to see what was going on with div)

So to reiterate

1. There was no diplo
2. No refusal of missing diplo
3. We complied and stayed out of your div conflict (notice it wasn't even a hostile)
4. I was just joking with sheister
5. You suck

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Originally Posted by Proteus

Don't even know who to congratulate other than the admins for doing their jobs.

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Check page one my post :)

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Originally Posted by Panthira

Comparing cheating to elite values for logic. Hmmn..

Congrats to the top prov crown for pulling through to #1, despite the cheaters' attempts to remove him.

<3 the new owners. :)

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Thought you had school work to be doing..

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Originally Posted by markers

Whoa incoming turd alert. The in-game message specifically told us to stay away due to div opping you. We complied. The Intel was see your wpa calc vs div. You could have easily contacted the monarch or stew (literally wasn't playing at the time of contact on whatsapp, they asked to see what was going on with div)

So to reiterate

1. There was no diplo
2. No refusal of missing diplo
3. We complied and stayed out of your div conflict (notice it wasn't even a hostile)
4. I was just joking with sheister
5. You suck

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Just be more transparent and cut the lies? And, reply messages? If you want intel you could say so. Getting intel and refusing to reply in game messages and lying on whatsapp about identities isn't exactly cool. As I pointed out it changed the course of the hostile the last 36h. And yes,it's a hostile.