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I know I am now waiting for Sparta to crown.
It does feel like every age emeriti get to advantage position and then don't develop a plan to open. Their argument is it is more advantageous to make people take the crown from them. As a single conflict matter they are correct. However the waiting it involves allow these late age leapfrogs. If emeriti want the crown, the onus is as much on them as on us to take it. Otherwise they risk getting leap frogged at EoA.
Imho
Who are you kidding here man? Have you seen your own kds Intel, military mix, etc. You absolutely have zero intention to war if you get opened on but rather would abuse mechanics to stay out of war and look to outgain, get autocf, use explore pool. I can’t believe you even made that statement. Also last age you won a big war that put you at #1 and didn’t really push war to try and protect it and we ended up hitting anyways after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
@flogger
You don’t just give kingdoms that lame played you out of stuff in the past free passes. BB exerted themselves for over a week to stay in an unwinnable war they were hemorrhaging acres/NW just to block us so Barcolo could farm their friends OOW and shape the charts. This was in spite of your and other LS promises that BB would WD as you conceded that you lost.
Until BB gives us free acres to reset relations and apologizes for what they did we won’t ever be willing to do them a solid. If we lose it’s typically because someone wants to play lame and block, shape charts, etc not because we were beaten. So we could not crown and still do better than BB, I think it’s in their interest more so to reset relations so they can win some crowns too. The minute Bb gives free land as an apology is when relations get reset as they once were.
Which had you not putzed around you all would have had time to work around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
You all are rolling the dice that Sparta won't own you now.
This is not on BB, this is all on emeriti who have been in the dirver's seat all age.
Just deleting posts is a horrible way of moderating. Especially when said moderator isnt consequent and just deletes random post that are off topic and not all off them.
Last 3 ages have been decided by farming out.... may as well see if 4th in a row is too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
The mechanics are what they are and that can't change. They're to heavily favored towards no action and dragging feet. Don't act like BB didn't prepare to do just that. The 30% GS, Resilient, 14+ epa, 4 dspa strategy is the evidence to that.
You had, and still have, no intentions to fight us, and we're prepared to, imo, abuse the current mechanics in order to solidify a almost free (or possibly even up acres) cf, because that's how the game works.
And yes, BB claimed abuse of mechanics when Emeriti did a similar (although we NEVER went into a fight completely unprepared to fight) situation last age where we secured a cf at a very low cost. However, admins saw that as "abuse" (I believe the called it incorrectly implemented mechanics) and supposedly fixed it this age (we all know it isn't actually fixed)
But then again we know what happens when the larger, more prepared KD refuses to take action and what it costs them. The difference is we didn't hide behind crappy mechanics and we were never in a position where we couldn't really fight back.
But warring is not the only way to win right? Both of our intention is to win. We selected a particular way and you did yours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
If a 3rd party comes and explores up and wins then are you showing that this is cos of us?
The mechanics are same for everyone, no1, no10 or no100 kd. You just need to know how to deal with them or how to use them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
I know exactly how to abuse them. Use them. Whatever you want to call it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Judge
Listen, I get it. There is bad blood between the 2 KDs. But you're kidding yourself by saying your intention is to win.
Just come out and say "Our intention is to f*** Emeriti". It's not a secret. If you can't win, stop the other guy from winning.
Memster, you know I love you and all, but get real. Of course people use mechanics to their advantage. That is also what Emeriti has always done. Stop trying to make it into a question of virtue. Emeriti could have hit into us and used mechanics to their advantage to. Stop acting like Emeriti had nothing to gain by opening properly. On top of which, you have had what... 5 weeks uninterrupted pumping? And you can't open? GTFO with this bull**** MemQuote:
Originally Posted by Memster
Don't be a goose! We are pursuing the only winning play we can make. Emeriti did not take up that gambit, so the risk is that we both lose. Only one with something to lose by sitting around (potentially) is Emeriti, and only if Sparta does something about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
"We are 20% larger and have had 5 weeks of uninterrupted pumping but we can't open on a kingdom that only just emerged from war with less than half our gold stocks"
That is your argument.
Pathetic.
There are literally no advantageous mechanics for larger KDs, they're all designed for the smaller KD.
There was no question of can we open on you. The mechanics literally make it non-worthwhile to do so.
Since this only my 2nd age back (and consequently in Emeriti), I can't speak to the mostly historical bad blood and tactics used in the past.
And you're seriously still calling it a winning play? What does it win? I agree we are the ones with something to lose. We made our decisions and we will live with them. But why do you insist on "winning" play here. Just call it what it is. BB wants to f*** Emeriti. (Note: I'm actually not saying this is a bad play on your end, just don't pretend you're doing anything other than it).
Also, there are plenty of cases throughout the history of the game where people "used" mechanics and it was deemed abuse. So don't go acting like everything is 100% ok just because it's coded in the game. Just because it doesn't result in action (aka punishment and/or deletion) still doesn't make it not abuse.
this is how you get to be number one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfYnvDL0Qcw
any takers?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
No I said it was the only winning play we can make, which means the only SHOT at a winning play we have. The only path that COULD lead to a win. Of course, now it can't because there is not enough time anymore. Oh well.
If you had the intestinal fortitude to attack, we might have turned it into something competitive. That is very simple.Quote:
What does it win? I agree we are the ones with something to lose. We made our decisions and we will live with them. But why do you insist on "winning" play here. Just call it what it is. BB wants to f*** Emeriti. (Note: I'm actually not saying this is a bad play on your end, just don't pretend you're doing anything other than it).
No sir. Abuse of mechanics is the kind of **** that Emeriti has done and been actioned for. Do you see the Dev's actioning us? No? The STFU on that. I can't believe this is you I am hearing this whining from. You are not the guy I played with. And this is comming from ME! Perhaps one of the most cited for whining ever to play the game. This is really bad man.Quote:
Also, there are plenty of cases throughout the history of the game where people "used" mechanics and it was deemed abuse. So don't go acting like everything is 100% ok just because it's coded in the game.
Actually, it really does. It is pretty much the definition of it in utopia. Think about Godly and his brilliant resetting in war tactics and so on. Come on. This is not even a little bit like that. Turtleish? yes. Annoying? yes. Abuse of mechanics? You have got to be freaking kidding me.Quote:
Just because it doesn't result in action (aka punishment and/or deletion) still doesn't make it not abuse.
Unless something happened in the 4 ages I was away, this is a blatant, flat-out wrong lie. Emeriti has never been actioned for abusing mechanics. Mechanics have certainly been changed at EOA as a result of how Emeriti used mechanics, but that is completely different from being actioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
At least get your trollgument right before you throw it out there. You're a lawyer, hold yourself to a higher standard of truthfulness.
To be clearer:Quote:
Originally Posted by Leshrak
Probably not emeriti per se, but certainly members of Emeriti while playing in CR.
The two kingdoms have shared so many of the same players (at least from my perspective) that it is difficult to mentally separate the two.
If that is unfair, I apologize.
There is a vast difference between what has been actioned as abuse and the current situation.
You'll have to catch me up for stuff Emeriti has done and been actioned for.
As for taking the fight to you, there is plenty of evidence this age where we know opening is not all the prosperous BS you are spewing. It's the same reason from a similar position BB didn't open up on Emeriti from the power position.
We also have logs of BB Leadership informing us there was no desire to fight, and no desire to cf. In fact, they even told us that they weren't even competing. Then they said the only way any deal was being reached if we gave another week so you could dump 50k acres and super pump.
There is historical evidence of game admins NOT actioning when it was deemed abuse (the 50% acre explore cap bug is the one that sticks out the most).
And I complain about one thing (which I've complained about all age), and I'm suddenly just a whiner? The throttling crap is the worst mechanic the game has seen in a long time and there is ZERO way to overcome it. Ask Frosties/Ronin how that throttling mechanic works against Sparta/Frosties. Funny, didn't see you fight the stupid mechanic claim in those threads.
And if a simple complaint changes your opinion of me, then so be it. Can't help that.
Side note: Funny how much interest you are showing because of mechanics killed competitive Utopia. Should change that sig
Is that at issue in those threads? I have not been reading most of the forum this age.
I don't disagree the mechanics for the last three ages suck.
I disagree that you could not have gained opening.
You all have been in the drivers seat and you balked and screwed up. Don't blame anyone but yourselves for that.
The part I don't understand is how BB are said to be abusing the mechanics. The mechanics are designed to (a) throttle hits on a KD out of range after x meter disparity and (b) allow any KD to auto CF after y meter disparity, even if they have LL'd land. As far as I have understood, BB would potentially (if attacked) use the mechanics in exactly that way.
I agree there's a case for saying the mechanics are silly in allowing LL and then the auto surrender, but that is the fault of the mechanics. I don't see how you can say a KD is abusing those mechanics if they do exactly that.
If BB were to landdrop after Emeriti started attacked in order to get themselves out of range in order to benefit from the throttling, then I could see one might argue that is abuse. But they haven't done that.
I have to say, Chris121 has won the argument with a far cleaner, clearer and more insightful statement than I have made.
Two thumbs up sir!
That appears to be much fairer toward the rest of the server than to agree to fight an unwinnable war just to secure your crown?Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meep
So last age you called us waiting out from a weaker position a non winning play. But you doing the same thing gives you a shot right? K cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Also, Chris121, I never said if the actions you described transpired that it is abuse of the mechanic. What is abuse of the mechanics however is knowing that the aggressor kd has limited actions it can take and building your provs into a non competing prov (no one will convince me that 4-5 dspa core wide is a legitimate build) while conveniently keeping out of NW range while undertrained in order to extract further protection of mechanics. To me (which I stated long ago... It's my opinion), that's against the spirit of the rules and thus abuse.
But maybe the forums are the wrong place to have opinions. It comes across as whining sometimes
I didn't say I wanted them to war us. But they shouldn't be acting like they were waiting for us to initiate a fight and they were ready to fight back.Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB
The mechanics are crap and they are using them not to try to do a winning play for themselves, but make Emeriti lose. Whether they're successful is still to be determined
I don't think I was in bb that age.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
Second, I don't think I was calling you out. I think I was giving a sideline tactical impression. Good try though.
Again you are wrong on our intent, but that is what myopia does I guess.
Oh, so opinions are allowed to change on the matters because you do or don't play in a KD? Good to know. Also labeling it commentary or calling out, the effect is the same. You essentially said the only reason for Emeriti doing what they were doing was to block BB for Ronin, because Emeriti couldn't win. So if Emeriti couldn't win, then they must just be blocking because clearly why else would they stay in that conflict where the KD was bigger, power position, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
So first BB's intent is to not compete, not war. Then you come in here and say BB is competing, and would have warred (will still war?) (ha!). So which is it?
Is it target sharing if I call on the server to rob, op, and hit Emeriti without giving their location? Come on guys I bet they have GC and acres noone will retal you for, they're busy with BB. Together we can make a fair fight!
#razethetop
#jkjustrazeemeriti
What the hell are you talking about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
Do you honestly think I think about blocking? When I am not nvolved?
Jesus you have not played with me in a long freaking time man.
What DID you want them to do anyway? And why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
You're right, I haven't played with you in a long time. And whether you're involved or not, you have your opinions and state them on the forum, just as I have. I can only take what you state on the forums as how you think in this game. You can only take what I state in the forums as how I think in the game.
If you want, I'd be happy to discuss further through some other medium (IRC, Slack, Discord, WhatsApp, etc.), but we probably aren't going to make headway on the forum
They're free to do as they will, just as I'm free to comment how I feel on it. I don't expect a forum conversation to make any difference in how they feel, and they shouldn't expect a forum conversation to make me change how I feel.Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyB
Prolly not. I don't even know where is public chat anymore. Irc was so much better than whatever **** kids use now.
General chat on IRC is now #tactics on Utonet... but discord is free to use on browser (or PC App... or phone app). Also, it's seeming like Discord is going to take over IRC as the official outside communication tool of UtopiaQuote:
Originally Posted by Sheister
Proteus delete his own reply?
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lewpac
On Proteus asking us to yield free acres and apologize, I can tell you that I'm enjoying seeing them sticking this up yours to make you pay for IRL harrassing my LS before. Yea, I think you know well what I'm talking about. Let me know if you're ready to apologize and we'll consider resetting relations then.
Fair point, you didn't, I just assumed that was the concern.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
However I still don't understand how this is abuse. If they don't want to war you (or don't want to war you now), then it makes sense that they might prefer to be out of war range. Isn't that just using the mechanics to do what the mechanics do? Similarly if they want to build non-competing provs, I don't see how that abuses the rules (even if we might say it's lame or whatever).Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
I can see that the artificially low nw by being undertrained might be argued to be abuse of nw mechanics, but that isn't new - a variety of top KDs have been doing that for ages for other purposes (eg keeping prov nw low to get better gains on randoms).
Except we are undertrained by top war standards because we did not have a week to stock gold and pump. We emerged from war into this. The reason we were undertrained is that we did not have time to do a proper soldier pump. So to say that was intentional is laughable. The distribution is the best we could do with the time we had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris121
My final paragraph wasn't intended as an accusation. Even if (hypothetically then) it was intentional, I think it's hard to describe 'managing' nw as abuse at this point because it is / has been so common and has effectively been normalised. As someone who doesn't play in the top but ends up interacting with them when my KD gets randomed, it is personally annoying and I'd like to change mechanics so it's not viable to stock tons of soldiers OOW, but even I wouldn't describe it as abuse of the mechanics - just more silly mechanics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proteus
The difference is we spend our time crowning and winning and have been more successful at it than any other kingdom in modern utopia. Whereas you spend your time trying to chart shape and block others. Something to think about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by astron
When the logs from diplo with you/flogger we’re pasted in LS channel asking to be gifted a free backdoor crown shot, I said “no” with a relish and that was that.
Where is the revenge that’s bappening here? I didn’t realize revenge was you being smaller/in a worse position all age and afraid to war. That’s good revenge, please keep it up every age. Though it happens naturally.
The other thing I find really funny / surprising / amazing is that you and Sheister actually think BB is entitled to crown this age. I still don’t understand why.
Drink your morning coffee before posting proteus. Then go find the post where I say BB is entitled to crown.
Well, already from the start hes been able to deduct things that nobody said from your posts so it isnt surprise that he keeps on making up stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheister