And that in the most extreme cases. Kicked out of eowcf seems appropriate here.
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And that in the most extreme cases. Kicked out of eowcf seems appropriate here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagger
maybe cause he invited former friends and they agreed to help cause zulu and his KD (majority) got screwed over by a few? :)
Clear FW.
They got to #1 via fake warring, they get punished and back at #1 within a couple of days, only a little less #1 (fewer acres than they otherwise would have had). It do seem like a very mild form of punishment for fake warring. Granted its early age and being #1 now with empty pool is probably more of a disadvantage than anything. But yea, I can sympathise with those feeling the punishment was quite mild. I hear their explore pool bonus from the WW remained intact (rumour?), perhaps that should have been removed along with all other WW bonuses? Or a rollback to pre-war state...
What would be a fitting punishment then?
Removal from eoa rankings like Sparta was for doing the same thing
The difference being that in Sparta case it was a clear case that he was the mastermind. While Zulu might be behind this there isn't anything that proves it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagger
Does it matter if zulu knew? If 24 provinces conspired to do something without the monarchs knowledge, you would still punish the kd.
What's the threshold in your opinion for how many need to know? because based on deletions alone at least 20% were in on it (and I'm certain nathz was aware as well, though wasn't deleted).
funny how you were so quick to ban me previously for the same offense, and now there's a "warning" for other users?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
LMAO
IMO, there's a lack of consistency with regards to the enforcement of rules.Quote:
Originally Posted by s0830887
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillz
One of these is not like the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by azsxdcfv
It's a tricky line as I mentioned in a earlier post. I been this could be set in motion. Plant yourself in a enemy kingdom get a fake war get them punished and voila you took out one competition with barley no effort.Quote:
Originally Posted by Swagger
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
tldr: I don't know what a fitting punishment would be Korp. I don't envy DavidC. I however think it's worth discussing. And I'm glad its judged on a case-by-case basis though. Few situations are alike.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
In this case I must say that Swagger has a valid point, 20% (possibly more, though that hasn't been proven and perhaps must be dismissed as an argument) of the kingdom were proven to be directly involved in an actionable defence, that's quite a lot. In Spartas case I'm not sure how many were involved, but if only Bart (he was the only one deleted, right?), significantly less. Granted he was the leader and consequently responsible for the whole kingdom.
However, if we take the stance that the remaining players in 5:1 are victims than in this scenario there's 2 offenders: the group in 5:1 and their counterpart, that organised the FW. And two victims: the part of 5:1 that was tricked and now suffer the punishment of 5 deletions, and the rest of the competitive kingdoms who are now positioned unfairly relative to 5:1 due/thanks to their FW. In the ideal case, the two offenders gets punished and the two victims gets compensated. The eliminated provinces and the retained right to be ranked and intact explore pool bonus from WW surely punishes the transgressors, but merely compensate one of the victims. If you want to supercharge the argument, 20 players (5:1 remainders)were compensated and 105 players (5 deletions + 5? growth kingdoms) punished.
Perhaps roll them back to pre-war size (+ the 5 daily acres) if that's possible within the code. But keep their right to be ranked. Bleeding the game of innocent people (innocent until proven guilty) and kingdoms by removing their incentives to play is bad in a small and shrinking game imo.
I think that, if I'm allowed to speculate, DavidC would have imposed harsher punishments had this been closer to EoA and more impactful on the final rankings. So timing is a factor as well. Rightly or not.
The only thing that they gained from the fake war was that they could explore up the new provinces that replaced the deleted ones. Sure its benefits them to a certain degree but that much that they would be in a far better position than anyone else in Utopia? Doubt it.
Now I haven't kept a close eye on things, so I might be wrong.. But, they kept the acres gained from war too, no (only stripped of WW acres)? So they could grow for the FW duration safe from other interference. Could explore the whole kd in peace due to timing related to the FW? Who know's if they could explore safely at all if it weren't for that war. Perhaps, perhaps not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Korp
As to weather they're in a good position or not is a little beside the point I think. Like I said previously, I believe the meta is against them and that sitting on #1 now with zero pool is a mistake. But that's speculation. They've managed to amass a lot of acres through the consequences of a FW, that's fact. Question is if that's a reasonable outcome from being actioned.
zulu wrote on the first page of this thread,
Quote:
Removal of war wins.(Happened)
Ofc he could be lying but from this post at least he says all gains were removedQuote:
Removal of any gains of the fake war from all kingdom members (even if they were unaware of the fake war).(Happened)
As a new invited I gained nothing, I had 200 acres from start in pool which I used and then I asked a couple of the originals to donate some of theirs to catch up, I would call that a disadvantage by far.
From neutral perspective the eowcf was likely the only advantage gained, however that had to be used to get moral and 5 new provinces into decent shape so they weren’t smashed as soon as oop.
It’s a ****ty situation overall, no one wants cheaters in their kingdom, 5 was deleted and the 20 others who was unaware were punished as well (just not by deletion), should the 20 left get further punished for trying to get over it by recruiting 5 new and attempting to play the age? Maybe DavidC got proof or is satisfied that Zulu and the 19 others had nothing to do with it? (Or do you know that’s not the case?)
Best way to go about it, is to send a message to utopia support if you are unhappy with the decision and make an official complaint, instead of making assumptions as to what has been discussed between utopia support and Zulu.
So all of this begs a question.. how do 5 members orchestrate a fake war with another kingdom without leadership consent? A fake war has a predetermined outcome, so if the plan was to MP, you still need leaders to push the buttons. If the plan was to avoid certain members, you still need the people making those decisions to make that decision. I am not making any accusations here, I genuinely have no idea how it is even possible unless one of the 5 was at least a steward.
You only need to control one of the kingdoms. These 5 provs in 5:1 hits the other kd. The other kd declares, farms out then WD.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckySports
Except 5:1 declared.... and by a SYG person...
Wow...this thread escalated quickly. If you want to know the FACTUAL truth and series of events and the proof of sanctioning then message me. I will provide you with screen shots. Official statement from SYG. We are a legit kingdom who abides by the rules of the game. We expect all players to play with a high level of integrity. SYG does NOT support the use of multi's or fake warring. What happened with SYG was unfortunate and as a result those players responsible were removed and the kingdom was punished by the Devs. As per DavidC, if you would like an official reasoning on the deletions and sanctioning then you can message utopiasupport@utopia-game.com.
Please don't back up the support email with questions about actions taken against another kingdom. Either PM someone appropriate in 1:1 or head over to discord.
Or you know, the admins can just make it known what happened so everyone doesn't have to guess or email...Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
No it isn't. You're full of inconsistencies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Insulting users is insulting users regardless the choice of words. He called someone else a retard, and all you can do is just give a warning? That's pathetic
It was entirely rhetorical in use.
Was merely a example to show how you can orchestrate a fake war without the consent of the leadership.Quote:
Originally Posted by Memster
Though I doubt anyone would pass up the chance for a fast and easy warwin.
I can remove one word from pillz's post and now it's 100% a post that is in line with and contributes to the topic being discussed. Your entire post had to be removed and you received a ban because the entire point of it was to insult and demean another user.Quote:
Originally Posted by azsxdcfv
And no, not all insults are immediately ban worthy. I actually think it would much more pathetic that instead of treating each post on a unique case-by-case basis that we just starting banning users for calling people nubs or that their kingdoms are anything less than a perfectly adequate. That's just my opinion on the matter. You may take your "everyone saying anything remotely insulting should receive a ban" idea to the devs though
What happend to "If you have a issue with a moderator PM another moderator" Palem? :P
Personally, I think the idea of banning someone for insults is crazy. When did everyone become such babies? We're playing a game about killing and genocide and we cry because someone calls us a n00b? I guess Uto is just reflecting the overall pussification of the Human race. Sad really how Universities used to be the bastion for free speech. Now, they need cry-baby zones where they don't have to hear about real life. Really people, get your head out of your whiny butts.
Now, on to topic. 5:1 pushed the button, that makes them wrong. You can SAY you didn't know it was a set-up, but you really did. As the Monarch, if you allow your pages to declare war on someone w/o consulting you, then you are responsible. If not, whoever pushed button knew and hopefully gets banned permanently. We had a situation in our war where someone from another KD started 2 Avians and razed someone in other KD. Turns out it was someone from 5:20 over some vendetta. This kind of BS needs to stop and deserves an IP perma-ban. If we need a court to decide on issues like this, then so be it. If you don't get a handle on this kind of nonsense, it will destroy the game.
CARTOONS Stole Your Glory (5:1) has withdrawn from war. Our people rejoice at our victory!
Shh Gani. No gloating. Tough war. Thanks SYG, and good luck the rest of the age.
Take it to politics snowflakeQuote:
Originally Posted by Wilmington
Haha...yeah snowflake! Be a troll elsewhere...snowflake lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palem
Troll? I wasn't trolling, but if you wish, I can go further. I believe you knew it was a set-up, possibly set up by you. You lied when you said that ex-Hordez members that merged with you cheated. I say that's a lie because it wasn't them that gave you the button. So you have some Oliver North to take the fall for you. Grats on being a good cheater. The only people that should be deleted is you, whoever pushed the button, and the ones that gave you button. People aren't going to do that on their own for nothing. If you really were a stand-up KD like you said you were (I had to laugh), it wouldn't have happened because people would already know you don't condone that crap.
edit: People don't know that, do they?
You sir must be on something good. Share it with the community? Its funny tho. People, like yourself, believe their own little fantasies that go on in their heads. Its cute. GG sir, GG..Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilmington
You wanted troll so....you're saying you don't have control of your KD? How exactly did the guys who joined you cheat? I'm still trying to figure that out. They didn't give you button, nor did they push it. You just used them as a scapegoat.
Still waiting on how someone in your KD (besides the one who pushed button) got you in a fake war.
pin drop
Burn all the cheaters!
https://media0.giphy.com/media/k1WNsvwuYUGzu/200.gif
lol that's a little extreme. It is only a game after all.