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@titanwraith
Whatever, I've said my piece and consistently there are people like you who don't know what they are talking about... I'm not even going to help you on this one, you can think I'm dumb all you want, I don't need to justify myself to you.
I like that ghettos are trying to chain nowadays.
Too bad you wont get it right.
makes the game more interesting steel. eventually they will figure it out :)
no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestermenot
A deep chain is used to render a province useless or near useless. not to PK.
you don't massacre, you don't fireball. Pure trads. And it is generally more effective to do so while they have a lot of NW invested in their offense and that offense is out on an attack. This way you can get more bang for your buck because the target's NW is overly-inflated.
as an example... Apatosaurus Undead 190 acres 189,289gc 996gc
That is what they look like. (btw for reference this particular province had 2k acres at the start of the chain, used spoils to protect against ambush, and well.. this is 6 hours later)
There are other examples where kingdoms have pushed a guy down so far, that there really is nothing they will be capable of doing for a long period of time. This is not the most devastating chain I've seen this age, (when i was random searching I happened across a dude who was 1300 nw/a, which is just pure score)
You need them with Peasants, and bulk elites out to make them work effectively. This keeps their NW inflated, allowing other provinces to get better hits against them, through GBP.
"as an example... Apatosaurus Undead 190 acres 189,289gc 996gc"
This is the point where you wait for their prov to stabilize and whatnot...
Seriously, why do people think I'm stupid... This is exactly what I was talking about...
As far as pk'ing, getting them to the state you posted above there is the first step of a pk.
Haha funny thread, poor nubs who tries to learn stuff by reading this thread and understanding how to deepchain. As a generic advice; regard all Pester's prov as a regular Q&A - our most silly questions answered to provide the reader with better understanding and you will come out with an ok picture of what to accomplish with a deepchain.
However, the concept is overrated and even if many is learning how to use it they use it incorrectly and at the wrong situations. Knowing when to use the strat is more important than how to use it.
I completely agree, that's the part I won't share on the forums... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
mesmerizing ... just mesmerizing ...
You mean disregard his misguided ramblings, and listen to the people with actual experience and knowledge? Pester has done nothing but confuse the issue with his talk of massacre waves and giving chain targets plenty of t/m attention when the targets are "stabilized". If you have to do any of the stupid stuff he talks about, you've failed with the deep chaining and should go back to bashing ghettoes instead. PK's are very rarely worth the time spent accomplishing them, even less so for players who need to visit this thread at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elurin
Or was that what you meant?
1. Why is chaining overrated? The strategy in itself has been dominant for as long as I can remember. That it doesn't make sense for all kd's to use it (those who can't pull it off and those who just want to max gain some land and wd) doesn't mean the strategy is overrated. Chaining works better than most other strats, but of course it's situation dependent like everything else.Quote:
However, the concept is overrated and even if many is learning how to use it they use it incorrectly and at the wrong situations. Knowing when to use the strat is more important than how to use it.
2. When and how are both equally important. You have to know when to chain, but unless you know HOW to do it, knowing WHEN gives you nothing.
I honestly think some people need to clean their monitors...
@Luc
Do you even read it all before posting, or start posting halfway through the read? The most confusing part is that I (mistakenly) tried to reason with folks who obviously don't care to learn because they know it all already...
I've read every single post in the thread, and yours stand out as BAD ADVICE. There's several players who clearly have more experience and knowledge than you telling you you're wrong, and you're saying they're the ones who don't care to learn? Maybe it's you who need to learn, did that thought ever strike you? I'm guessing no, because you're obviously living in some dream world where you actually know stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestermenot
It did actually. I even took the time to freshly research everything I knew, compare it to current formulas, and decide whether or not I was wrong. Did you?
EDIT:
Perhaps my join date throws you off? I've been a utopia player for over 10 years dude...
Research everything you knew? Maybe that's the problem? That you're trying to confirm something you already know, rather than learning the truth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestermenot
I'd be very interested in hearing whatever formulas you're using, since this is matter of reasoning and logic more than actual number crunching. A formula can't tell you what the point of deep chaining is.
I have several years of experience leading and playing in this game. Even if I was too dumb to reach an understanding of chaining, the idea behind it, the effects of it and how to do it properly based on logical reasoning, I'd still have a fair understanding of it based on experience alone. Also, there's several other experienced players in this thread backing me up, while you're on your own. Any experienced player reading your posts is very likely to find that you're someone with limited understanding of game mechanics, and that you've never had the experience of running into reality.
I never even looked at your join date. How many years you've played means nothing at all, because some of the worst players in the game have also played for a long time. It makes me sad that even after 10 years, your understanding of the game is this limited.Quote:
EDIT:
Perhaps my join date throws you off? I've been a utopia player for over 10 years dude...
Yeah, everything I knew (in regards to utopia).
I rejoined the game 3 weeks before EoA last age, and let me say first that a lot changed while I was away. I got married and had a kid, came back to my favorite game in the world and spent a month going through the wiki, utopiatemple, and I even used google (or asked people publicly) to help me get up to speed. You miss one thing: The point of a deep chain is it never stops until you are dead, otherwise it's just a really bad chain that you can recover from.
Do I suggest fireballing a province who's sitting at 700 acres and overpopped, no. He gave me a province size and I told him the basics of how to deep chain a province of said size.
Have you ever been pk'd? It happened to me a lot when I first joined years ago. It sucked. I dedicated way more time and energy into getting good at this game than was healthy because I hated getting killed. I remember when hybrids were an advanced tactic, when 8 people HAD to work together as a full force group because you just COULDN'T get your intel, do your ops, AND attack. It was impossible. Nowadays the game is geared towards people who want to play, but don't 'really' know how.
I remember when Absalom was born... They used to be scary as hell and if they caught someone recruiting under their name with messages like: "You don't need to know how to play, just be active and do what we tell you to." They'd RAZE THAT KD TO THE GROUND and disband them from the alliance.
You really think a lot more of yourself than I think of myself... This is not bragging, it's that "experience" you say you have more of. Just saying.
=) Cheers
No, the point of deep chaining stopped being about pk when they removed raze (the version destroying land). Now the point is to attempt to disable, and at least drop seriously out of range. It's all decided by the effort required to do it, because it's simply not worth spending too much resources on it when you could instead be bringing down bigger provs. If you can pk with a not unreasonable effort, that's great, but usually that isn't the case at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pestermenot
You can't fireball any chain target unless he releases his wizards or you make a big effort to get rid of his wizards instead of using your strength on bigger threats.Quote:
Do I suggest fireballing a province who's sitting at 700 acres and overpopped, no. He gave me a province size and I told him the basics of how to deep chain a province of said size.
Back when I was playing seriously, I got pk'ed at least once every age. That was when we had the old raze attack, and at that point in time, hybrids and "battle groups" were pretty much crap that only the lower tier kd's loved. I've never been pk'ed since raze was removed, and I don't expect to ever be, since it's rather easy to avoid.Quote:
Have you ever been pk'd? It happened to me a lot when I first joined years ago. It sucked. I dedicated way more time and energy into getting good at this game than was healthy because I hated getting killed. I remember when hybrids were an advanced tactic, when 8 people HAD to work together as a full force group because you just COULDN'T get your intel, do your ops, AND attack. It was impossible. Nowadays the game is geared towards people who want to play, but don't 'really' know how.
Ok, and the relevance is?Quote:
I remember when Absalom was born... They used to be scary as hell and if they caught someone recruiting under their name with messages like: "You don't need to know how to play, just be active and do what we tell you to." They'd RAZE THAT KD TO THE GROUND and disband them from the alliance.
That just seems very backward, because it's you having issues accepting that you're probably wrong (no one supports your ideas, and it's because they don't work with the current game mechanics the way they are). I have actual experience, I've played with (and against) some great players, and have had the opportunity to lead some pretty good kd's. Since I don't assume that I know everything, I've been able to learn a lot from that. With the kind of stuff you've been writing in this thread, it seems rather likely that you've never played in an especially good kd, or if you have, you've been nothing but a grunt. Go ahead and try your proposed tactics against a decent kd, and reality will hit you straight in the face real hard. That is if you ever manage to actually convince some other people that your strat works, which isn't all that likely.Quote:
You really think a lot more of yourself than I think of myself... This is not bragging, it's that "experience" you say you have more of. Just saying.
=) Cheers
It has nothing to do with bragging. Either you have high level experience or you don't. I do, what about you?