rules on fake wars

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04-10-2011, 19:41
Che Guevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

yes and no - undeads arent an issue.

Sure, they aren't an issue, if you are an UD taking advantage of FW mechanics. If FW is against the rules then what Snacktuary is doing IS an issue. Sitting in a FW and abusing game mechanics. Then threatening ABS raze GBs if you retal. I call that "Odd..." and it is an abuse, if FW are against the rules. As far as the "moratorium" I have no idea, because I stopped playing back around when OMAC took over the game years ago, and only came back recently. It seems that Brian and Sean go out of their way to accommodate cheaters, as long as they continue lining Brian and Sean's pockets. Odd how a lot of rules mainly benefit the top tier of cheater, the tier that also spends the most money on the game.
04-10-2011, 20:45
protector

Quote:

Originally Posted by Che Guevara

You don't think people would adapt to KNOWING they could get pushed out? You really don't have a clue. You go into a FW knowing that you have the chance of getting kicked out (All changes like this would have to have an announcement saying what could happen, anyway). So you don't run a "normal" FW strategy. You use FW to escape bad situations, and you can even pump, to a degree. But you don't sit there with 30dpa and 90% banks or whatever. I guarantee that FWs would be just as common if you got kicked out early, although their use would evolve a little. They would be useful for protecting a wave to a degree (Have the FW ready to go before hand, do a wave, run into FW, and you have a few hours of safety). There are plenty of uses for FW that would still be there and be used even more (BECAUSE you aren't locked in for 48 hours + the EoW CF period). It would be a quick escape system that gives people a few hours of relative security. Certainly, they wouldn't get the full benefit of -75% gains on them as it wouldn't scale to that point in the 12 hours before they were kicked out, but it would be SOME protection.

There is no use in going into FW if you don't use that FW properly. Its a waste of time then. If you want to sit there and be READY in case you get kicked out you may as well stay out. I'm quite sure even Fortified would be a better choice over FW then.
Think as you wish, if it ever gets implemented like that I'm sure you'll see it works.
04-10-2011, 20:47
DHaran

Quote:

Originally Posted by Che Guevara

Sure, they aren't an issue, if you are an UD taking advantage of FW mechanics. If FW is against the rules then what Snacktuary is doing IS an issue. Sitting in a FW and abusing game mechanics. Then threatening ABS raze GBs if you retal. I call that "Odd..." and it is an abuse, if FW are against the rules. As far as the "moratorium" I have no idea, because I stopped playing back around when OMAC took over the game years ago, and only came back recently. It seems that Brian and Sean go out of their way to accommodate cheaters, as long as they continue lining Brian and Sean's pockets. Odd how a lot of rules mainly benefit the top tier of cheater, the tier that also spends the most money on the game.

FW is a disadvantage for UD elite conversion. The rest of that post is just pure garbage spoken out of ignorance.
04-10-2011, 21:32
fuzzy|

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bishop

Fake war is against the rules but is specifically not actioned - I'm not interested in peoples opinions about this, it is fact.

If you know of someone abusing VM please report them.

lol
04-10-2011, 23:12
Che Guevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHaran

FW is a disadvantage for UD elite conversion. The rest of that post is just pure garbage spoken out of ignorance.

How is it a disadvantage for UD elite conversion? Yes, you don't convert as many elites, but you are not growing much either, so you are balancing it out. I have not done any hitting out of a FW as an UD, but have done a lot of hitting out of EoW CF (Which has the same penalties as during the war) and have had no trouble with conversion.

As far as things being spoken out of ignorance, you are free to try and post something with substance to prove your point. I don't believe you'll be able to, since you don't know what you are talking about, though.
05-10-2011, 00:12
DHaran

Your comments about B&S catering to cheaters is beyond retardation. EVERYONE has been using credits, on all levels. Cheat detection itself is the best it's ever been. I would like you to tell me these "rules" that benefit top tier players. You are spitting pure garbage.
05-10-2011, 01:06
Che Guevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by DHaran

Your comments about B&S catering to cheaters is beyond retardation. EVERYONE has been using credits, on all levels. Cheat detection itself is the best it's ever been. I would like you to tell me these "rules" that benefit top tier players. You are spitting pure garbage.

Putting moratoriums on actions that are against the rules but mainly used by a handful of top kingdoms. The same top kingdoms that spend the money creating new kds, province sitting, etc. Yes, non-top kingdoms also use the strategies, but not as often. And non-top kds do pay for invites and *sometimes* pay for sitting, but the ones who do are generally top 100 kingdoms anyway, and also use FWs and traded before it was legal. If Brian and Sean cared about the integrity of the game, they would have taken action against people breaking the rules. Whether they are the ones who specifically put the moratorium in place or not, by upholding it they catered to the paying customers, at the expensive of the non-paying customers.
05-10-2011, 04:53
DHaran

FWing has nothing to do with paying customers, you are trying to relate completely unrelated issues. There was a reason a moratorium was put on FWing, because it's been a long standing problem, the need for them needs to be fixed, and a suitable method of policing with clear rules stated. Not sure what you don't understand about that.
05-10-2011, 10:58
hint

Quote:

Originally Posted by Che Guevara

You don't think people would adapt to KNOWING they could get pushed out? You really don't have a clue. You go into a FW knowing that you have the chance of getting kicked out (All changes like this would have to have an announcement saying what could happen, anyway). So you don't run a "normal" FW strategy. You use FW to escape bad situations, and you can even pump, to a degree. But you don't sit there with 30dpa and 90% banks or whatever. I guarantee that FWs would be just as common if you got kicked out early, although their use would evolve a little. They would be useful for protecting a wave to a degree (Have the FW ready to go before hand, do a wave, run into FW, and you have a few hours of safety). There are plenty of uses for FW that would still be there and be used even more (BECAUSE you aren't locked in for 48 hours + the EoW CF period). It would be a quick escape system that gives people a few hours of relative security. Certainly, they wouldn't get the full benefit of -75% gains on them as it wouldn't scale to that point in the 12 hours before they were kicked out, but it would be SOME protection.

You appear to have very shallow understanding of the overall game mechanics. Uncertainty regarding when and if you get kicked out, means top kds would no longer use FWs for pumping and in most cases would stop using them for escaping purposes, and could no longer combine the 2.

If you get kicked out in 4h, 15h or 40h, you do not know, so taking the risk of changing builds for pumping purposes falls out of question, unless you are willing to risk of getting completely farmed. The "safe" pumping in FW you described is simply worthless and could be done just as well oow + you don't lose dice.

For escaping, people have either arranged FW before hand, knowing you are gonna get waved in future(notice deal has been handled for example by kd A to kd B), so kd B has full FW protection on by the time they should/can get waved by kd A. In that case, when that time finally arrives, enough time has passed and enough reporting been done by kd A, that kd B can easly be already kicked out of their FW and be back in open. Kd B only has hope, that they don't get kicked out in time, but they wouldn't have enough time or certanity about the lenght of the FW to ever effectively pump as they can in current FWs. But should the system work properly, this wouldn't be the case to begin with. Avantages of the kd running to FW would be limited greatly.

Or in the case where you run to FW after being waved, you will simply neutralize ops between kds(or just give away urs, should u not plan to retal at all) and since war effects take time to get in, you won't make much difference to the amount of acres exchanged between kds, since FW effects fading in. Right now it takes time till the FW truely starts protecting anyone, but in theory kd in FW should be already kicked out by then. And even if you are not, again u can not be any more effective with your pumping than ur opponent, since you can get kicked out at any time, so you have to be ready at all times. Advantages of the kd running to FW would be limited greatly.

In the case of hit and run, you would be handing over the button, so again you do nothing more than just set up your kd not to be declared right away, but in few more hours into the future in time less expected for you. Basicly no advatage to kd hitting and running to FW(maybe only in cases of very specific setups, where kd hit and running is heavy attacker and kd getting waved is with superior T/M power, so aggressor can avoid ops for a few hours). But still advantages of the kd running to FW would be limited greatly.

Quote:

I guarantee that FWs would be just as common if you got kicked out early

Because of examples stated above, I guarantee the exact opposite.

Quote:

There are plenty of uses for FW that would be used even more (BECAUSE you aren't locked in for 48 hours + the EoW CF period)

Name one, just want to test your creativity.
05-10-2011, 12:10
Palem

Quote:

Originally Posted by Che Guevara

How is it a disadvantage for UD elite conversion? Yes, you don't convert as many elites, but you are not growing much either, so you are balancing it out. I have not done any hitting out of a FW as an UD, but have done a lot of hitting out of EoW CF (Which has the same penalties as during the war) and have had no trouble with conversion.

It doesn't balance itself out. I don't know when people in this game started passing around the idea that gaining acres is bad, but it isn't. You gain less leets, you gain less acres. Both are bad, both are avoided by not randoming outside of war.
05-10-2011, 19:13
flutterby

Quote:

Originally Posted by Palem

It doesn't balance itself out. I don't know when people in this game started passing around the idea that gaining acres is bad, but it isn't. You gain less leets, you gain less acres. Both are bad, both are avoided by not randoming outside of war.

It actually depends on the situation. If I gain more land from war and I can't keep up with my max pop and I can't draft quickly to defend it, then I would say gaining land in this situation is bad. No drafting = less army = less attacking, which eventually means no grabbing anything.
06-10-2011, 07:55
John Snowstorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by flutterby

It actually depends on the situation. If I gain more land from war and I can't keep up with my max pop and I can't draft quickly to defend it, then I would say gaining land in this situation is bad. No drafting = less army = less attacking, which eventually means no grabbing anything.

incorrect. It is also land that your enemy doesnt have that he cant have peasants or troops on. You always want a maximum of land in war :)
06-10-2011, 09:10
Syntico

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Snowstorm

incorrect. It is also land that your enemy doesnt have that he cant have peasants or troops on. You always want a maximum of land in war :)

I want the war wins!
06-10-2011, 09:15
fuzzy|

is it just me or does this Che Guevara person seem to argue with everyone?
06-10-2011, 13:54
Che Guevara

Quote:

Originally Posted by hint

In the case of hit and run, you would be handing over the button, so again you do nothing more than just set up your kd not to be declared right away, but in few more hours into the future in time less expected for you. Basicly no advatage to kd hitting and running to FW(maybe only in cases of very specific setups, where kd hit and running is heavy attacker and kd getting waved is with superior T/M power, so aggressor can avoid ops for a few hours). But still advantages of the kd running to FW would be limited greatly.

Name one, just want to test your creativity.

I already listed one, getting your troops back before they can retal much. In a hit and run you can enter FW and and I would guarantee that almost 100% of the time, it would be 8-12 hours before you were kicked out, unless you happened to get unlucky with Bishop. Have you ever reported anything before? It takes forever to get any type of response on ANY issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Snowstorm

incorrect. It is also land that your enemy doesnt have that he cant have peasants or troops on. You always want a maximum of land in war :)

I think the point here was it is a FAKE WAR, so you don't have "enemies". You are hitting outside of the war so unless you are trying to limit the land that 7500+ players have peasants and troops on, it doesn't matter. You wouldn't want to go into a FW and quadruple your size unless you planned on being in the war long enough to get your troops drafted and trained. So short fake wars where you are hitting outside of them are better with the smaller gains. You have some built-in protection against randoms, you get some elite conversion, and you get a few acres.

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