Palem is indeed female, her actual name is Pam
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Palem is indeed female, her actual name is Pam
I have received logs of in game mails.
In these mails Francis(steward) admits to breaking a deal their monarch(Loiso I think) made. He admits to hitting into an active hostile. And then he offers to hit the opposing kingdom in said hostile as reparation for the deal break.
They also show threats like others have claimed they received by FS leadership.
If anyone is interested in seeing the logs I will gladly show them. But I see no need to spam the forum with them.
I don't play anywhereQuote:
Originally Posted by vlahul82
All this talk about fairplay (u razed me to death with outside help to **** us over) and meanwhile hand us the crown (which you did not realize). Can't even WD anymore, we will only benefit more.
This was an interesting conflict, all this ****talk is not needed. You gambled, you lost, and we got what we wanted. Thanks, and see you next age!
Yep, if you saw them its clear as the light of day. I would assume however that most are well set in their ways, and that most of the top act exactly like many (frustrated?) utopians have claimed they act.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
I would be interested to see you guys either post or STFU if that's possible?Quote:
Originally Posted by lampost
Most of us are more than willing to admit that FS has had some issues this age with treatment of others. Have they made mistakes? Sure. We can tell you about some of them and I'm sure everyone and their dog is going to jump on the band wagon and start airing out the dirty laundry. Conflict and issues are going to happen in this game, as will miscommunication and misunderstanding between kingdoms. When mistakes happen, and they will (no one is perfect), the best you can do usually is offer reparations and learn from it. It's when someone doesn't offer reparations or just continues with the deal break, like the sparta v divinity situation, that's when people need to step in. A lot of the time you don't even hear about these things because they are handled diplomatically and resolved between the kingdoms. When this conflict began, all we heard from the people razing into FS war was that they are bullying people and we heard of a few instances from mirana, SS, etc. None of which were even close to on the scale needed for a gangbang. It wasn't about deal breaking the people involved, not about hitting into war, or even violating people's basic rights to fight 1 on 1. Some of these people might argue that their basic rights were violated, and that's part of where the friction is.
I, for one, am not set in my ways. I take everything on a case by case basis. I can only work with what I am given by both sides. People like zauper and i have worked countless hours sorting through the claims by both sides and trying to figure out what is accurate and what is overblown. Papers, diplomatic logs, etc are the only kinds of things that can help us to get a clear picture of what's going on and make a judgement on the situation. We think about the precedent that would be set by the actions, such as this gangbang, and whether that is good for the game or not (and that doesn't just involved the top, we have friends who play down below too). We don't get involved in 1 on 1 situations, but as soon as it breaks outside of that and someone asks us to dig into it, is that wrong? The fear in this situation was that if every kd who feels they've been bullied or waved unjustly decided to gangbang, the game would be unplayable. Should kingdoms like FS take responsibility for their actions this age? Absolutely. People should treat them accordingly in the future concerning their 1 on 1 hostiles, diplo, etc. But gangbang was just an inappropriate response for what happened based on the claims of SS and company. SS didn't have a war deal yet confirmed (yes they were in talks but when aren't the war kds in talks?), FS didn't deal break any of the kingdoms hitting them (if there is proof that they did it needs to be presented), and they didn't hit into anyone's war. If roles were reversed and FS + friends were doing this, I'd help Arsis and SS , especially since I recently became friends with Arsis this age.
People act as though this is just the top, elitist, players helping other elitist players and them saying f*** you to everyone else. This is not the case. I have friends on both sides of this conflict and I certainly don't condone many of FS's choices this age. But taking this to rk is what I'm against because it's reserved for the most severe of crimes only. Plus someone would likely get a crown over this (SS would have double crowned had their plan worked and no one helped FS) and that's just not fair. Unfortunately, whichever kd ended up winning this war was likely to crown for both honour and war wins, which is unfair to the rest of the top 10 in those charts. It's a bad situation overall with no good resolution, especially since SS stopped doing diplo to end it before most of both sides' attackers were gone. I've got many friends in the top 10 for both of those charts who are getting screwed over by SS's decision to take this to gangbang. FS probably had the honour crown all wrapped up if they weren't gangbanged, but other kingdoms were still fighting it out for the war win crown. The actions of the initial gangbang crew screwed over those people's chances for it. Once war started someone was going to double crown, unless MP stopped the fight before that, which is an unlikely action that I have rarely seen used, especially when both sides are this upset.
Or in shorthand: "I swear to Godly I'm relevant. Please don't forget about me!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pale
Pale I know that some do spend the time to sort through news, correspondence etc. I also do understand that it's a big task.
The thing is I tried to point out that FS behavior is not okay. I was ignored , ridiculed and called a liar. 7 separate kingdoms stepped up and tried to say the same about how they were treated by FS this age. All of them were dismissed and called liars. There are more that are too afraid to speak up and I promised not to give their names or locations because of threats made. This is a problem.
FS tried to threaten and quiet us as well. But someone had to stand up. If we had not hit into that war, nor you or any one else would have cared enough to do anything simply because the kingdoms it happened to "don't matter".
After all this you are STILL defending FS and accusing SS. FS had every opportunity to say"hey sorry we'll try to do better" before this war. They didn't.
We hit into their "hostile" and I explained why again...and again I was threatened by FS ignored by "the police".
You and FS did not give us a choice. If we wanted the kingdoms not competing for the crown to have a voice we only had one way to do that.
The community can not let one kingdom break the rules and then reward them for it.
But just because you are still not holding FS accountable and because TommyB insists here just one of the mails written by Francis. It was hard to pick just one.
> Lord Wormrot the Sorcerer of Meteor to the Face (Francis FS steward) said:
i cant reach our monarch so i cant confirm this but you cant be lying about something i can check with him when he gets on. i admit this is serious ****up on our part.
i apologize for the rising tension as i couldnt have known why you were 'that' angry while unaware of this exchanged pm.
we keep our words above everything else and its clear we didnt due to miscommunication. i am ready to make any compensation, you name the form. if you are willing to fight (kingdom the recipient was in a hostile with), we can throw some hits on them as well to equalize the situation.
He admits to breaking a deal because he didn't know the monarch made it (the steward/monarch game also mentioned by at least 3 separate kingdoms)
It also shows that they in fact hit into an active hostile.
and then he offers to interfere in the hostile some more by hitting the opponent
each one of these would be reason for action on any other kingdom.
It is not SS that messed this age's crown race up , it's FS
It would appear plain from the logs that they should not have hit into that hostile; and offering to hit the other party involved in this hostile, to make things right, seems even worse in this instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
Congrats. Calling in alliance to raze into SS attackers ,While u focus on massacre on SS high honor tm. SS drag on, u slowly farm honor. So SS is doing chart shaping with FS? There isnt anything left for SS to fight on. And why they dragging? And they are helping FS to secure the top and get the ww top spot as well. Really nice plan. Don't tell me SS has joined the FS and BB alliance , hmmmmm,Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorash
To say I am disappointed in the top is putting it mildly
For the most part we leave you guys alone until it escalates to a point where it becomes chart shaping, gangbang, etc. Another issue with these policing things is that people are not just posting papers, summaries, and logs in here to strengthen their argument while making the accusations in here most of the time. You just yell "They are a dealbreaker, they're doing x, they're hitting into hostile". So many people cry wolf these days that it's hard to take it all seriously. Make sure you put your arguments together in a single place early on with proper logs, papers etc all in a pastebin and well organized and it's far more likely to be taken seriously. The longer it takes us to sort through all the data and all the freaking forum posts (most of which have jack all to do with the actual topic or arguments), the harder it is for anyone to do anything about your claims. Not once did I call one of those bringing information against FS to be a liar. The only thing I called someone a liar about was some of the SS guys saying they didn't at all organize the gangbang, when I have plenty of evidence plus common sense to the contrary. More than once, all I said was their previous actions were not justified as gangbang worthy, and I gave my reasoning. That is all, and I've been consistent with my stance. More evidence on FS could, of course, change that stance. However, no one has given anything that is even close to necessitating major top 10 honour/war chart shaping and gang-banging.
I also agree with Khronos that hitting the other kd during the hostile, when they had already hit one of the kingdoms, is a bad idea and other reparations should have been figured out. At least they were trying to repair what had been done, which is the first step. Not sure if I like the offer though.
What are you disappointed about specifically? The fact that they don't agree with you? That they took FS's side? Or is it something else? Considering that is directed at me I'd love a very detailed and well put together argument with evidence about it because I'm truly interested in your perspective being on the other side of this..Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodwitch
They played the monarch/steward gig all age. The only reason Francis even admitted the deal break was because they were caught.
You know as well as me that the average kingdom does not keep records. And to be honest it doesn't matter anyway.
I have had conversations with Francis, Protector and Zauper from the very beginning. BEFORE FS hit SS!
To excuse FS by saying "oh well they tried to fix it" after they were caught is bs.
You say you need to see evidence and yet, you claim to have evidence but when asked for it everyone is told you can't share it.
Again showing justice is weighed on a different scale for different people.
I don't recall voting for you or anyone else to represent me or my kingdom. I am sure neither did 95% of the server. What makes it okay for you to decide whats right and whats wrong for the community? Why should we trust you , if you plainly demonstrate that fairness is not what you have in mind?
You took and are still taking Francis' word and making it law.
It is not SS or the kingdoms hitting FS that are ruining the game. It is leaders like those of FS and people that think they own the law like the mighty alliance
I remember all of you back from when you knew right from wrong and when you were fighting the good fight against the kind of people you turned into now. I am sad.