#1 vs#2 honor kds

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Originally Posted by Binar

Weve had a ingame CF with CR for a month. Cant steal through ingame CF

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So the question then is who DID fund CR? And yes goodwitch is right. this is just a ploy to remove Sparta from #2. As disgusting as I think this is, moving now only gives said group of KDs to police even more. In other words, interfering means TBB will get more razes into their war plus Sparta will be taken down too.

Quite sad you had to use TBB as a tool to achieve these ulterior motives. Especially sad from FS since TBB fought for your honor-war crown a few ages ago (notr that since Feyrplay came under criticism FS hasnt won anything anymore --> hence the need for a new alliance).

Some dangerous precedents have been set this age.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Some dangerous precedents have been set this age.

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Anarchy FTW

Bart, no one care about your N2 spot. You can ask octo for it :P
If you want to worry make it for next age. This age you build so many enemy and its going to be hard for next to play.

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Originally Posted by Elit

Bart, no one care about your N2 spot. You can ask octo for it :P
If you want to worry make it for next age. This age you build so many enemy and its going to be hard for next to play.

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You mean next age is gonna be fun? I'm quite honored so many people would want to invest time in me. There is no other way to make this game more enjoyable for me than to make Sparta the center of attention. I do agree that offending CR is more dangerous than say Pandas, since CR actually knows how to play the game. My prediction is that Sparta will receive at least 50 PKs next age combined (perhaps significantly more).

And well, Octo has achieved more than I have or ever will in uto, so I understand for him the #2 position isn't much. For me finishing runner-up twice in the last 3 ages, while last age only being kept out due to us dropping like 150-200K land, is quite an achievement.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Especially sad from FS since TBB fought for your honor-war crown a few ages ago (notr that since Feyrplay came under criticism FS hasnt won anything anymore --> hence the need for a new alliance)..

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You mean FS hasn't won **** ever since I ditched their ass?
ba dum tsss

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Originally Posted by Elldallan

Spartans fed several hundred million gc into an active unresolved conflict to a kd who as a result won a war they otherwise wouldn't have won. How is Sparta feeding massive amounts of gc to somebody not Sparta's fault? Whether you agree or not that the taken action constitutes foul play(you obviously don't agree that it's shady) you have to agree with the basic premise that a kd taking an action can be blamed on that kingdom?
So for those who view the action of feeding several hundred millions of gc to a kingdom involved in an active unresolved conflict as foul play it's quite natural to blame the party responsible for that action
Sparta could simply not have fed gc and none of this would have happened, CR would have farmed TBB the 2nd time, or TBB would have CF'ed CR and all would have been well.

Personally I don't doubt that this is orchestrated to punish TBB for using dirty methods to win a war they otherwise should have lost, and therefore several kingdoms are taking the necessary steps to right that wrong by force since TBB seem unrepentant and refuses to see that they did anything wrong.
Bart says 200M, CR says 400M, Which of them is lying and who is telling the truth or if both are lying I don't know. But which of those is the actual truth doesn't really concern me and doesn't really matter for the situation at hand, 200M is still more than enough to radically impact the outcome of a war at the size TBB & CR were at. So what really matters is that Spartans fed a substantial amount of cash that radically changed the outcome of that war.

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Bart was saying on IRC while the feeding was going on it was "at least 300m, probably 400m." That's where the numbers are coming from.

Now he's backtracking and saying 200, which apparently some people have jumped on as fact. I don't understand why he'd be lying then and telling the truth now, especially after this situation blew up as it had. That's why I believe the initial number since it makes more sense to spin it as nothing to see here now.

In any event, it's a very large amount that was the only reason TBB won the second leg.

Their reasoning about it mostly being in post war cf and only for rebuilding is nonsense. Gains are too bad from war and the orcs/avians needed to pitch in to take that much.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

You mean next age is gonna be fun? I'm quite honored so many people would want to invest time in me. There is no other way to make this game more enjoyable for me than to make Sparta the center of attention. I do agree that offending CR is more dangerous than say Pandas, since CR actually knows how to play the game. My prediction is that Sparta will receive at least 50 PKs next age combined (perhaps significantly more).

And well, Octo has achieved more than I have or ever will in uto, so I understand for him the #2 position isn't much. For me finishing runner-up twice in the last 3 ages, while last age only being kept out due to us dropping like 150-200K land, is quite an achievement.

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I don't say n2 is bad spot. What i mean is you don't need to make much for keep it and special you don't need to make new enemy when its wont move you up to n1 spot. Age is reset every 12-13 weeks but same ppl keep play and now every one know every one. So if you make other ppl mad sure they will look fro pay back you incoming ages.

Pk has started, 1 down.

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As i told tbb in game ALL cfs terms are only going to be held to with kds i find honorable. When you start acting like an asshole i re-evaulate if its worth keeping that cf. In this case there was so much against them that screwing over a kd im semi-friends with meant i didnt feel like i wanted to keep my terms.

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Dangerous precedent too. IMO CFs should always be kept no matter what, unless one of the KDs is in clear violation of the terms agreed upon. You could even just have noticed TBB a few days ago to do your razing.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Quite sad you had to use TBB as a tool to achieve these ulterior motives.

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Aren't you the puppetmaster here? you fed them to further your own goals, and then dropped them like a hot potato when supporting them became a liability. IT had to be quite obvious that CR was never gonna stand for loosing because of outside interference, so what exactly did you expect would happen?

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Originally Posted by sexual harassment panda

In any event, it's a very large amount that was the only reason TBB won the second leg.

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Yeah that was the point I was trying to make, 200M is more than enough to impactany conflict so arguing whether it was 200. 300, or 400M only clouds the issue and detracts from that point because it focuses attention away from it.

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Originally Posted by Bart of Sparta

Dangerous precedent too. IMO CFs should always be kept no matter what, unless one of the KDs is in clear violation of the terms agreed upon. You could even just have noticed TBB a few days ago to do your razing.

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That's not a new precedent. The precedent that cf's are null in face of an alliance and/or "fair play" action was set back in the days of eX & Absalom etc. So it's been a well established one for something close to over a decade.

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Originally Posted by Persain

You herd mostly right. While if i were trying to be all lawyer-ry i would argue the cf i had was invalid based on terms we orginally set were tbb takes X honor for a notice cf and they took way more than x. However that cf was basically being honored so yea we deal broke that to support CR and start razing tbb. As i told tbb in game ALL cfs terms are only going to be held to with kds i find honorable.

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Is it just me, or does this, in essence, mean: "The CF I have with you is valid as long as I like you, and void otherwise"? Might be a good idea to note that for anyone doing diplo with Divinity anytime soon :)

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Originally Posted by Binar

Weve had a ingame CF with CR for a month. Cant steal through ingame CF

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Hi Bin. Has always been a fan of you but a solution to your question above could be this:

KD A has EOACF with KD B
KD A wants to fund KD B
How?

KD A let's KD C (no EOACF between A & C) robs KD A
KD B is then allowed to rob KD C (no EOACF between B & C)
Yes, a lot of leakages here. But still possible.

I'm not insinuating the above, but yes, that can be done.
No offence Bin.

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Originally Posted by Exxo

Is it just me, or does this, in essence, mean: "The CF I have with you is valid as long as I like you, and void otherwise"? Might be a good idea to note that for anyone doing diplo with Divinity anytime soon :)

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Unless Divinity specifically added that clause to the EOACF with TBB, that is a clear violation and a deal break. Also, being honorable is very very subjective. Say, in my eyes, TBB was actually being honorable for handling this 3v1 like a man but in Divinity's eyes TBB is not being honorable for taking GC to fund wars or even a rebuild as claimed by TBB, which mind you, receiving of funding is common practice. Yes the amount may be big (200-400m based on the claims so far) but that's cos Spartan was rich cos they had nothing to do w those GCs whilst handling (raze killing) the annoying Panda rebels/pricks/losers/deal breakers (hate calling names but these are exactly who those are). We have this clause w Emeriti, which I feel is a weird clause. New to me this age. ;)

A more common and quantifiable clause seen would be "can or cannot DB even for policing reason".

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

Hi Bin. Has always been a fan of you but a solution to your question above could be this:

KD A has EOACF with KD B
KD A wants to fund KD B
How?

KD A let's KD C (no EOACF between A & C) robs KD A
KD B is then allowed to rob KD C (no EOACF between B & C)
Yes, a lot of leakages here. But still possible.

I'm not insinuating the above, but yes, that can be done.
No offence Bin.

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Understand that CR managed to train insane amount of Faery elites as well as explore up during the short EOWCF whilst EM lost huge amounts of gold during the same period (doubt EM was training up as it was the usual stacking em routine with no better use of GCs - at least a leakage of 600m based on 'expert' estimates).

Based on the above two points, yes, it's industry rumour that CR was being funded by EM

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Originally Posted by sUpeRneBU

Understand that CR managed to train insane amount of Faery elites as well as explore up during the short EOWCF whilst EM lost huge amounts of gold during the same period (doubt EM was training up as it was the usual stacking em routine with no better use of GCs - at least a leakage of 600m based on 'expert' estimates).

Based on the above two points, yes, it's industry rumour that CR was being funded by EM

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lies. we explore our top humans tickly. its very expensive. and iam srsly ingame cfed with the entire t20. my kd did NOT lose "insane amount of money". infact we have 3,7billion gc kr wide